I Need Cheap Feed!

[Cleo]

Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a year.
My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi. Eight
of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).

Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?

Thanks, Gary

[Carol-Ann]

"Cleo" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a year.
> My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi. Eight
> of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
> them.

$$ There is no need to buy the overpriced feeds they try to push on us. I
feed my koi and goldfish catfish food and trout chow. These foods run about
$10 to $12 per 50 lb bag. I mix in a little puppy and kitten chow for
variety. My fish are thriving and reproducing like made. See my website,
URL below. I saw no difference in how often I had to flush the filters when
I switched feeds. You don't have to feed MORE either. That is a fallacy.

(I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
> algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).

$$ They don't eat "gunk" and algae is not enough.

> Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
> Thanks, Gary

$$ Catfish chow, trout chow, some puppy and kitten food (any brand small
enough for them to eat.)
--

Carol McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

One more vote for catfish food. We have used it for years. Koi are now 24"
and thriving.

Jim
"Cleo" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a year.
> My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi. Eight
> of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
> them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
> algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).
>
> Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
>
> Thanks, Gary
>
>

[Carol-Ann]

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote in message
...
> One more vote for catfish food. We have used it for years. Koi are now
> 24"
> and thriving.
======================
The young koi are also thriving on, mixed as for the adults but soaked to
soften before feeding. I crumble it to the size they can eat and they love
it. I also add some Ichiban which a local store sells. It's expensive so
only the little guys get it as a "treat."

I recently learned that that love canned dog food. :-)
--
Carol McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ jan jjspond]

Just out of curiosity, how much is it costing you to feed them?

I figure my feed bill for the season was $68, old dog cost 2-3 times that.
Maybe wife could go without something? Lattes, hair cuts, manicure or
whatever might apply. ;o) ~ jan

>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:59:31 -0400, "Cleo" > wrote:

>Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a year.
>My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi. Eight
>of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
>them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
>algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).
>
>Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
>
>Thanks, Gary
>

[dt]

Cleo wrote:

> Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a year.
> My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi. Eight
> of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
> them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
> algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).
>
> Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
>
> Thanks, Gary

You ain't gonna believe this, but after a terrible
chicken tragedy (it's a long story) left me with
almost 50 pounds of laying crumbles, I've been
feeding it to my goldfish.

When I was a kid, we used to feed our future
fishbait goldfish the cheapest dry dog food we
could find.

Somebody posted on here a few days ago about
buying dried nori seaweed from the oriental food
store as a treat for his goldfish.

DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/

[[email protected]]

11 koi of that size probably dont need more than 1/4 cup of good food per day. cheap
food is mostly undigestible grains that are in and out of the koi and then foul the
water. Ingrid

"Cleo" > wrote:

>Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a year.
>My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi. Eight
>of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
>them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
>algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).
>
>Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
>
>Thanks, Gary
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Ingrid,

Which sorts of food do you mean? Cheap goldfish? Catfish? Other?

Jim
> wrote in message
...
> 11 koi of that size probably dont need more than 1/4 cup of good food per
day. cheap
> food is mostly undigestible grains that are in and out of the koi and then
foul the
> water. Ingrid
>
> "Cleo" > wrote:
>
> >Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a
year.
> >My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi.
Eight
> >of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to feed
> >them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with the
> >algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).
> >
> >Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
> >
> >Thanks, Gary
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
> any of the recommendations I make.
> AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Carol-Ann]

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote in message
.. .
> Ingrid,
>
> Which sorts of food do you mean? Cheap goldfish? Catfish? Other?
=====================
She's talking about what some people feel are highly over priced feeds made
especially for koi and goldfish. Some people swear by them and other's know
they're a waste of money. The catfish and trout chows work wonderfully. I
even add some kitten and puppy chow to the mix. See my fish at the website
below. Why some people insist you need to feed much larger quantities of
the cheaper feeds is beyond me. You don't, and they don't cause more feces
than the expensive feeds in my experience. If they do the difference is so
minute I can't see it.
--

Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ jan jjspond]

>Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.

Interesting sentence that. The Others? Would that be the bad people from
Lost? Don't think they keep koi. But then, Solo & I are idiots and OUR
experience would never be as sage as yours.

User of Sho Koi, Manda Fu, & Hy Fang (spell may not be correct).
$68/year total, feeding 7 large adults and over a dozen fast growing
youngun's. Experience, seen fatty tumors (internal & external) on koi &
goldfish fed cat/troutfish food, and other pet foods. ~ jan

See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Carol-Ann]

"~ jan jjspond" > wrote in message
...
> >Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.
>
> Interesting sentence that. The Others? Would that be the bad people from
> Lost?

** Do they keep koi? Most of the people I know don't feed the high priced
fish food. I learned about the cheaper food from another successful ponder
some time ago.

Don't think they keep koi. But then, Solo & I are idiots and OUR
> experience would never be as sage as yours.

** No one said you were idiots. Those successfully keeping and raising fish
on the cheaper foods aren't idiots either.

> User of Sho Koi, Manda Fu, & Hy Fang (spell may not be correct).
> $68/year total, feeding 7 large adults and over a dozen fast growing
> youngun's.

** You don't have many fish. I have over 20 adult koi, some yearlings and
several hundred fry. I also have about a dozen adult goldfish and about 75
GF fry. Since they do as well as those fed the high priced foods - why buy
the high priced products? We're talking a huge difference in price, not a
few dollars. I picked up a bag of Ichiban as a treat for the small koi.
The price was $15.99 for a mere 3 lbs. How long would 3 lbs last with all
the fish I have? Not long even fed sparingly. Even if I had less fish I
wouldn't spend this on a main diet since they do so well on the other chows
at 50 lbs per $12.00 to $14.00.

Experience, seen fatty tumors (internal & external) on koi &
> goldfish fed cat/troutfish food, and other pet foods. ~ jan

** Until I see those things in my fish and/or the fish of the people I
know, I have no compelling reason to switch. They've been on this diet now
for several years and there have been no problems. Perhaps the fish with
fatty livers were overfed! Could that be? *Overfat* fish and other
critters can develop the problem on almost any diet. None of these fish are
obese.

Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

alll foods that start the ingredients list with some kind of grain.... in first or
second spot. some starch is needed to bond the stuff together to make a pellet, but
first two ingredients should be fish or krill/shrimp of some kind.
Ingrid

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote:
>Which sorts of food do you mean? Cheap goldfish? Catfish? Other?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Cry Baby Derek]

cheap feed is just like buying and trying to use single ply cheap
toilet paper......just not worth it.


On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:11:36 GMT, wrote:

>===<>alll foods that start the ingredients list with some kind of grain.... in first or
>===<>second spot. some starch is needed to bond the stuff together to make a pellet, but
>===<>first two ingredients should be fish or krill/shrimp of some kind.
>===<>Ingrid
>===<>
>===<>"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote:
>===<>>Which sorts of food do you mean? Cheap goldfish? Catfish? Other?
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>===<>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
>===<>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
>===<>sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
>===<>www.drsolo.com
>===<>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>===<>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>===<>I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>===<>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
>===<>any of the recommendations I make.
>===<>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

that should read "all foods that DONT start the ingredients list with some kind of
grain...."

wrote:

>alll foods that start the ingredients list with some kind of grain.... in first or
>second spot. some starch is needed to bond the stuff together to make a pellet, but
>first two ingredients should be fish or krill/shrimp of some kind.
>Ingrid
>
>"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote:
>>Which sorts of food do you mean? Cheap goldfish? Catfish? Other?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[~ jan jjspond]

>> >Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.
>** No one said you were idiots. Those successfully keeping and raising fish
>on the cheaper foods aren't idiots either.

When one says a group of people KNOW something is a rip off, and YOU know
other people in this group swear by these "supposed" rip offs, you are
calling someone stupid somewhere.

IMO, unless one can show some research/articles proclaiming that non-koi
food is better, I'd stop with using "others" as your back up. It's akin to
the 13 yo telling mom, "But everyone is doing it."

Now, if we're talking better for your pocket book. All depends on how much
your fish are worth to you over the long run. IMO

>Ichiban price was $15.99 for a mere 3 lbs. How long would 3 lbs last with all
>the fish I have?

I have no problem with what you feed your fish, nor you telling people your
experience, though I think it is misleading, since 10 years doesn't equal
the experience of those in the business of raising healthy koi doing the
research. IMO.

>** Until I see those things in my fish and/or the fish of the people I
>know, I have no compelling reason to switch.

I sure don't expect you to believe anything I have to say. Perhaps you need
to read more, post less perhaps? ~ jan

[Carol-Ann]

"~ jan jjspond" > wrote in message
...
>>> >Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.
>>** No one said you were idiots. Those successfully keeping and raising
>>fish
>>on the cheaper foods aren't idiots either.
>
> When one says a group of people KNOW something is a rip off, and YOU know
> other people in this group swear by these "supposed" rip offs, you are
> calling someone stupid somewhere.

# Nope. Not stupid at all. Some people feel to get anything good they must
pay top dollar. I buy my jeans at Wal*Mart and some people buy their jeans
at the Mall for twice or three times the price. They both wear out at the
same rate. Don't read something in to my posts that is not there. We KNOW
because we have proved that koi and GF thrive on the cheaper feeds. The man
who turned me on to these feeds has been using them for years without a
problem. In fact some of my Shubunkins are descendants of fish he gave me
about 5 years ago. These fish never had expensive feeds. So my fish are on
these feeds for 5 years.

> IMO, unless one can show some research/articles proclaiming that non-koi
> food is better, I'd stop with using "others" as your back up. It's akin to
> the 13 yo telling mom, "But everyone is doing it."

# Jan, by all means keep feeding what you are feeding your fish. I'm not
trying to convince you to switch to the cheaper feeds.

> Now, if we're talking better for your pocket book. All depends on how much
> your fish are worth to you over the long run. IMO

# The long run? For 5 years they're doing fine and reproducing like
rabbits - what more can I ask for? They're not fat because they're not
overfed.

>>Ichiban price was $15.99 for a mere 3 lbs. How long would 3 lbs last with
>>all
>>the fish I have?

> I have no problem with what you feed your fish, nor you telling people
> your
> experience, though I think it is misleading, since 10 years doesn't equal
> the experience of those in the business of raising healthy koi doing the
> research. IMO.

# I'm not in competition with them. My koi are healthy and producing
healthy fry. THOSE people are in business to *MAKE MONEY* recommending and
selling those high priced feeds. I am not. I'm not selling anything. I
make no profit when someone buys catfish or trout chow.

>>** Until I see those things in my fish and/or the fish of the people I
>>know, I have no compelling reason to switch.

> I sure don't expect you to believe anything I have to say.

* Why wouldn't I believe you? We may have a different strain or genetic
line of koi here. It's 5 years for myself, longer for the guy down in town.
If problems come up, as they did with the netted plants, I will tell
everyone. At this time they're still thriving and their fry are doing
great. No need to line the pockets of those who produce feeds that cost $5
& up a lb.

Perhaps you need
> to read more, post less perhaps? ~ jan

* Perhaps you need to depend on experience more, depend less on merchants
sales pitches?
--

Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[billfish]

Bottom posted

Carol-Ann Wrote:
> "~ jan jjspond" wrote in message
> ...
> Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.
> ** No one said you were idiots. Those successfully keeping and
> raising
> fish
> on the cheaper foods aren't idiots either.
>
> When one says a group of people KNOW something is a rip off, and YOU
> know
> other people in this group swear by these "supposed" rip offs, you
> are
> calling someone stupid somewhere.
>
> # Nope. Not stupid at all. Some people feel to get anything good they
> must
> pay top dollar. I buy my jeans at Wal*Mart and some people buy their
> jeans
> at the Mall for twice or three times the price. They both wear out at
> the
> same rate. Don't read something in to my posts that is not there. We
> KNOW
> because we have proved that koi and GF thrive on the cheaper feeds.
> The man
> who turned me on to these feeds has been using them for years without
> a
> problem. In fact some of my Shubunkins are descendants of fish he gave
> me
> about 5 years ago. These fish never had expensive feeds. So my fish
> are on
> these feeds for 5 years.
>
> IMO, unless one can show some research/articles proclaiming that
> non-koi
> food is better, I'd stop with using "others" as your back up. It's
> akin to
> the 13 yo telling mom, "But everyone is doing it."
>
> # Jan, by all means keep feeding what you are feeding your fish. I'm
> not
> trying to convince you to switch to the cheaper feeds.
>
> Now, if we're talking better for your pocket book. All depends on how
> much
> your fish are worth to you over the long run. IMO
>
> # The long run? For 5 years they're doing fine and reproducing like
> rabbits - what more can I ask for? They're not fat because they're
> not
> overfed.
>
> Ichiban price was $15.99 for a mere 3 lbs. How long would 3 lbs last
> with
> all
> the fish I have?
>
> I have no problem with what you feed your fish, nor you telling
> people
> your
> experience, though I think it is misleading, since 10 years doesn't
> equal
> the experience of those in the business of raising healthy koi doing
> the
> research. IMO.
>
> # I'm not in competition with them. My koi are healthy and producing
> healthy fry. THOSE people are in business to *MAKE MONEY* recommending
> and
> selling those high priced feeds. I am not. I'm not selling anything.
> I
> make no profit when someone buys catfish or trout chow.
>
> ** Until I see those things in my fish and/or the fish of the people
> I
> know, I have no compelling reason to switch.
>
> I sure don't expect you to believe anything I have to say.
>
> * Why wouldn't I believe you? We may have a different strain or
> genetic
> line of koi here. It's 5 years for myself, longer for the guy down in
> town.
> If problems come up, as they did with the netted plants, I will tell
> everyone. At this time they're still thriving and their fry are doing
> great. No need to line the pockets of those who produce feeds that
> cost $5
> & up a lb.
>
> Perhaps you need
> to read more, post less perhaps? ~ jan
>
> * Perhaps you need to depend on experience more, depend less on
> merchants
> sales pitches?
> --
>
> Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

OK, so we've established that there are two schools of thought on
cheaper feeds. Is there really anything to be gained by any more
bickering? Both of you are content that your fish are doing well on
what you feed them.

FWIW I try to vary the diet of my goldfish and my golden orfe, as I
think fish in the wild are opportunistic feeders and would be unlikely
to eat the same food day in, day out. Mostly they get (fairly
expensive) goldfish pellets, other times peas (very cheap), sand
hoppers (free, but take a while to catch) and occasionaly brown bread
(very cheap). They seem to enjoy the variety and feed enthusiastically,
on the peas in particular.


--
billfish

[Carol-Ann]

"billfish" > wrote in message
...
>
> Bottom posted
>
> Carol-Ann Wrote:
>> "~ jan jjspond" wrote in message
>> ...
>> Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.
>> ** No one said you were idiots. Those successfully keeping and
>> raising
>> fish
>> on the cheaper foods aren't idiots either.
>>
>> When one says a group of people KNOW something is a rip off, and YOU
>> know
>> other people in this group swear by these "supposed" rip offs, you
>> are
>> calling someone stupid somewhere.
>>
>> # Nope. Not stupid at all. Some people feel to get anything good they
>> must
>> pay top dollar. I buy my jeans at Wal*Mart and some people buy their
>> jeans
>> at the Mall for twice or three times the price. They both wear out at
>> the
>> same rate. Don't read something in to my posts that is not there. We
>> KNOW
>> because we have proved that koi and GF thrive on the cheaper feeds.
>> The man
>> who turned me on to these feeds has been using them for years without
>> a
>> problem. In fact some of my Shubunkins are descendants of fish he gave
>> me
>> about 5 years ago. These fish never had expensive feeds. So my fish
>> are on
>> these feeds for 5 years.
>>
>> IMO, unless one can show some research/articles proclaiming that
>> non-koi
>> food is better, I'd stop with using "others" as your back up. It's
>> akin to
>> the 13 yo telling mom, "But everyone is doing it."
>>
>> # Jan, by all means keep feeding what you are feeding your fish. I'm
>> not
>> trying to convince you to switch to the cheaper feeds.
>>
>> Now, if we're talking better for your pocket book. All depends on how
>> much
>> your fish are worth to you over the long run. IMO
>>
>> # The long run? For 5 years they're doing fine and reproducing like
>> rabbits - what more can I ask for? They're not fat because they're
>> not
>> overfed.
>>
>> Ichiban price was $15.99 for a mere 3 lbs. How long would 3 lbs last
>> with
>> all
>> the fish I have?
>>
>> I have no problem with what you feed your fish, nor you telling
>> people
>> your
>> experience, though I think it is misleading, since 10 years doesn't
>> equal
>> the experience of those in the business of raising healthy koi doing
>> the
>> research. IMO.
>>
>> # I'm not in competition with them. My koi are healthy and producing
>> healthy fry. THOSE people are in business to *MAKE MONEY* recommending
>> and
>> selling those high priced feeds. I am not. I'm not selling anything.
>> I
>> make no profit when someone buys catfish or trout chow.
>>
>> ** Until I see those things in my fish and/or the fish of the people
>> I
>> know, I have no compelling reason to switch.
>>
>> I sure don't expect you to believe anything I have to say.
>>
>> * Why wouldn't I believe you? We may have a different strain or
>> genetic
>> line of koi here. It's 5 years for myself, longer for the guy down in
>> town.
>> If problems come up, as they did with the netted plants, I will tell
>> everyone. At this time they're still thriving and their fry are doing
>> great. No need to line the pockets of those who produce feeds that
>> cost $5
>> & up a lb.
>>
>> Perhaps you need
>> to read more, post less perhaps? ~ jan
>>
>> * Perhaps you need to depend on experience more, depend less on
>> merchants
>> sales pitches?
>> --
>>
>> Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>> ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
=============================================
> OK, so we've established that there are two schools of thought on
> cheaper feeds. Is there really anything to be gained by any more
> bickering? Both of you are content that your fish are doing well on
> what you feed them.

## There is nothing to be gained. I don't think people should feel obliged
to spend exorbitant prices for fish food. Other people disagree. I seem to
recall some people here having differences of opinion on using salt in their
ponds. It's whatever works for YOU.

> FWIW I try to vary the diet of my goldfish and my golden orfe, as I
> think fish in the wild are opportunistic feeders and would be unlikely
> to eat the same food day in, day out.

## Exactly. That's why mine get a little puppy and kitten chow plus any
earth worms or grubs I come across in the garden. They really like these
live treats. :-)

Mostly they get (fairly
> expensive) goldfish pellets, other times peas (very cheap), sand
> hoppers (free, but take a while to catch) and occasionaly brown bread
> (very cheap). They seem to enjoy the variety and feed enthusiastically,
> on the peas in particular.

## I believe in giving them as much variety as possible as well.
--

Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Derek Broughton]

~ jan jjspond wrote:

>>> >Some people swear by them and other's know they're a waste of money.
>>** No one said you were idiots. Those successfully keeping and raising
>>fish on the cheaper foods aren't idiots either.
>
> When one says a group of people KNOW something is a rip off, and YOU know
> other people in this group swear by these "supposed" rip offs, you are
> calling someone stupid somewhere.
>
I don't see it. Maybe if I'd written that I'd have said "and others 'know'
they're a waste", but in either case the statement merely says that there
are people who would say "I know that's a waste of money". Nobody's saying
whether the statement is right or wrong, just that some people believe it.
--
derek

[~ jan jjspond]

>THOSE people are in business to *MAKE MONEY* recommending and
>selling those high priced feeds.

I'm not talking about vendors. I'm talking about people who specialize in
fish, people with PhD's in ichthyology, fish vets, etc.

>* Perhaps you need to depend on experience more, depend less on merchants
>sales pitches?

See post above, I'm the one depending on experienced people, not just my
own and the guy down the street. Some people chose to learn the hard way,
I try not to. ~ jan

[Carol-Ann]

"~ jan jjspond" > wrote in message
...
> >THOSE people are in business to *MAKE MONEY* recommending and
>>selling those high priced feeds.
>
> I'm not talking about vendors. I'm talking about people who specialize in
> fish, people with PhD's in ichthyology, fish vets, etc.
>
>>* Perhaps you need to depend on experience more, depend less on merchants
>>sales pitches?
>
> See post above, I'm the one depending on experienced people, not just my
> own and the guy down the street. Some people chose to learn the hard way,
> I try not to. ~ jan
============================
Thanks for your concern Jan. I'll let you know if and when my fish start
dying of fatty livers.

Let me remind you of all those researchers who had menopausal women on HRT
for many years, after many, many studies. These were Dr's, researchers and
assorted people with PhDs. Then WHOOPSIE!!!! They were all wrong. There
really were no benefits from HRT to our bones and hearts - but it sure did
raise the breast cancer rates.

So much for research.......
--

Carol McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

I depend on the breeders of pet koi, not those who raise fish for food (catfish
growers). I wonder how many of those award winning Japanese Koi are fed catfish chow
or cat food? I do know what Brett who breeds and sells wonderful koi in the USA
feeds his ponds and ponds of koi.... it also aint catfish chow. So I will go with
those that do know what they are doing.
Even tho my fish are not "award winners", I want them to live a long and healthy life
so I feed high quality food and a lot less than most people usually feed their koi.
Ingrid

~ jan jjspond > wrote:
>I'm not talking about vendors. I'm talking about people who specialize in
>fish, people with PhD's in ichthyology, fish vets, etc.
>
>>* Perhaps you need to depend on experience more, depend less on merchants
>>sales pitches?
>
>See post above, I'm the one depending on experienced people, not just my
>own and the guy down the street. Some people chose to learn the hard way,
>I try not to. ~ jan



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[adavisus]

Cleo Wrote:
> Hello, all. For various reasons I haven't posted here in well over a
> year.
> My pond and stream are doing very well as are my koi. I have 11 koi.
> Eight
> of them are now 12" or longer and it's getting really expensive to
> feed
> them. (I'd like to stop feeding altogether and let them make-do with
> the
> algae & gunk in the pond but my wife insists on feeding them daily).
>
> Can anyone suggest something really inexpensive to feed them?
>
> Thanks, Gary

If you look at the ingredients list of some dog biccies, you would not
know the difference compared to most koi brands. You will see the same
levels of ash (ha ha) and cheap grains... Try to pick feeds with the
lower fat component, fish tum's don't digest saturated fat so well at
lower temperatures.

Besides that, cooked chicken, beef, liver is a favourite koi nibble,
especially if you let it become touch dry before you offer it. A few
meaty lumps out of dog or cat food tinnies, a few worms, and you will
have very well fed fish

There are two feeding scenarios for fish, natural and 'aquarium' type
ponds... in a big natural pond, fish get plenty of veggies and insects
naturally, a boost in protein is all that is needed, while on an
'aquarium' pond where there is nothing in the way of natural veggies
you would have to look toward supplying alternatives for algae, lily
roots, duckweed etc

You will have new problems when you cut out a bad diet for koi and see
them thrive on a well balanced nutritious diet that they like. They
will grow a foot a year or more, and spawn three times a year...

Regards, andy
http://tinyurl.com/o8ax


--
adavisus