Breeding Rasboras?

[Liz]

All,

I'm hoping someone knows a bit about Rasboras. On 05 Oct. of this
year, I got 3 Harlequin Rasboras. From pictures and descriptions on
the net, I figured I had three females. Two are the same shape, but
one's more red than the other; the third has a deeper belly which
curves more sharply up to its tail. All of them (from what I can tell)
have a perfectly straight front edge to their black triangle (no
forward curve at the bottom that I can see).

The two which are the same shape appear to possibly be mating (based on
what I'm seeing and what I've read this morning about the mating
behavior). But only sorta... This morning one of them (the one that's
not as red - this one is named Bo) was turning herself upside down
against the leaves of some fake plants and quivering (she's been doing
this on and off for a couple of hours). The other two seemed to be
behaving normally. Twice now, though, I've seen the more red one (Ras
<g>) wrap its tail around Bo while she was doing this quivering
business... (only twice of all the times she's been doing this-which is
a lot.) Also, for the past 30-minutes, maybe more, the two have been
chasing each other around a bit and everyone (the three rasboras and
the three neons) has been a bit more active than usual (off and on).

Would this seem to indicate that Ras is a he? Or could this be some
sort of game / behavioral thing (dominance?) going on?

Can Rasbora eggs be seen? Are they clear? White? Dark?

If I do end up with rasbora fry tomorrow, would they benefit most from
floating plants or bottom-plants to hide in (I've got some that will
work either way (two of them, so I could do one of each))?

Advice and opinions welcome and appreciated!

Thanks,

Liz

[Elaine T]

Liz wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm hoping someone knows a bit about Rasboras. On 05 Oct. of this
> year, I got 3 Harlequin Rasboras. From pictures and descriptions on
> the net, I figured I had three females. Two are the same shape, but
> one's more red than the other; the third has a deeper belly which
> curves more sharply up to its tail. All of them (from what I can tell)
> have a perfectly straight front edge to their black triangle (no
> forward curve at the bottom that I can see).
>
> The two which are the same shape appear to possibly be mating (based on
> what I'm seeing and what I've read this morning about the mating
> behavior). But only sorta... This morning one of them (the one that's
> not as red - this one is named Bo) was turning herself upside down
> against the leaves of some fake plants and quivering (she's been doing
> this on and off for a couple of hours). The other two seemed to be
> behaving normally. Twice now, though, I've seen the more red one (Ras
> <g>) wrap its tail around Bo while she was doing this quivering
> business... (only twice of all the times she's been doing this-which is
> a lot.) Also, for the past 30-minutes, maybe more, the two have been
> chasing each other around a bit and everyone (the three rasboras and
> the three neons) has been a bit more active than usual (off and on).
>
> Would this seem to indicate that Ras is a he? Or could this be some
> sort of game / behavioral thing (dominance?) going on?
>
> Can Rasbora eggs be seen? Are they clear? White? Dark?
>
> If I do end up with rasbora fry tomorrow, would they benefit most from
> floating plants or bottom-plants to hide in (I've got some that will
> work either way (two of them, so I could do one of each))?
>
> Advice and opinions welcome and appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
I had some Espei rasboras mock spawn this spring. I never found any
eggs. Yours are behaving exactly is mine did. Bo is female and would
be laying eggs on the undersides leaves if she were spawning for real.
Ras is male - the males are quite a bit redder than the females in
spawning dress. He is folding himself over Bo to get her in the right
position so he can fertilize her eggs. The chasing is a common part of
spawning behavior in small, shoaling fish.

I never saw eggs from my fish, so I don't know how they would look. My
best guess is tiny and clear like other cyprinid eggs. However, even if
they actually lay, the adults and other fish will eat both eggs and fry
so you won't get any babies in a community setup.

Actually spawining harlequins and raising fry is moderately difficult
and will require a separate tank.
http://www.mongabay.com/fish/rasboras.htm has instructions.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Liz]

Thanks, Elaine.

I did a few searches and found similar info to what mongabay have. I
did see what looked like little air bubbles on the bottom side of some
leaves - so maybe these were eggs... I'm thinking of getting the
quarantine tank up and running, and maintaining it (except I have no
way to maintain a bio-filter (can't find pure ammonia) - hopefully fry
don't produce too much ammonia) and then if this happens again, I could
just remove the plant (they're plastic) and stick it in the QT tank and
see what happens.... Any idea whether brief exposure to air would hurt
the eggs?

(Not that I'm trying to breed them, just that if they (or Ras and Ra
(the third one (assuming she's a she))) do it again, it might be fun to
try raising a few of the fry...)

Also interesting to know they do mock spawning - I'll keep my eyes
open, but won't get my hopes up.

Thanks,

Liz

[Elaine T]

Liz wrote:
> Thanks, Elaine.
>
> I did a few searches and found similar info to what mongabay have. I
> did see what looked like little air bubbles on the bottom side of some
> leaves - so maybe these were eggs... I'm thinking of getting the
> quarantine tank up and running, and maintaining it (except I have no
> way to maintain a bio-filter (can't find pure ammonia) - hopefully fry
> don't produce too much ammonia) and then if this happens again, I could
> just remove the plant (they're plastic) and stick it in the QT tank and
> see what happens.... Any idea whether brief exposure to air would hurt
> the eggs?
>
> (Not that I'm trying to breed them, just that if they (or Ras and Ra
> (the third one (assuming she's a she))) do it again, it might be fun to
> try raising a few of the fry...)
>
> Also interesting to know they do mock spawning - I'll keep my eyes
> open, but won't get my hopes up.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
Cool! Sounds like you did get eggs. I never saw a thing under the
leaves when mine spawned. I may have missed the real thing, though.
There's a loach in my tank who would probably have followed the rasboras
around happily eating all the caviar. ;-)

Brief exposure to air moving a plant from one tank to another shouldn't
hurt the eggs. You can start a biofilter right away by running a sponge
filter in your main tank. It only takes a week or so to get a few
bacteria growing in a sponge. Once the eggs hatch and the danger of
fungus is past, you can also seed the fry tank with filter squeezings
from your main tank. Besides, ammonia isn't very toxic at pH 5.5-6.0.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Liz wrote:
> Thanks, Elaine.
>
> I did a few searches and found similar info to what mongabay have. I
> did see what looked like little air bubbles on the bottom side of some
> leaves - so maybe these were eggs... I'm thinking of getting the
> quarantine tank up and running, and maintaining it (except I have no
> way to maintain a bio-filter (can't find pure ammonia) - hopefully fry
> don't produce too much ammonia) and then if this happens again, I could
> just remove the plant (they're plastic) and stick it in the QT tank and
> see what happens.... Any idea whether brief exposure to air would hurt
> the eggs?
>
> (Not that I'm trying to breed them, just that if they (or Ras and Ra
> (the third one (assuming she's a she))) do it again, it might be fun to
> try raising a few of the fry...)
>
> Also interesting to know they do mock spawning - I'll keep my eyes
> open, but won't get my hopes up.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
Just a hint...as you have an existing established tank cycling a qt tank
shouldn't be too much of an issue for you especially as you will have a
small bio-load. Simply take some of the water, substrate and filter
medium and you should be ready to go.....I also squeeze the filter
medium out into the tank from an established filter if I think I'm
running into problems....called "seeding"

Good luck with the fry/eggs/fish

Gill

[Liz]

Thanks Gill and Elaine.

My main tank isn't actually done cycling (it's my first tank ever and
I've made some mistakes (which I'm trying to correct)). I've got
nitrites and nitrates, but still ammonia, so I think I've got both
kinds of bacteria, just not enough. I'm controlling it with frequent
water changes until it's done... (I don't have anyone with an existing
tank to give me some bacteria, and have heard not to get it from the
pet store; but recently found a source of bio-spira (added yesterday
after a big water change), so I'm hoping it speeds up finishing the
process.)

Once the process is done, then I'll take your advice on cycling the QT
tank, and keep it fed with ammonia (finally found some tonight) so it's
ready if I need it (either for fry or for QT).

About the pH level - if that's what it takes, it's unlikely the fry
would survive, cuz I can't seem to get the water here to go lower (it's
7.4 out of the tap and pretty hard ~150ppm KH, ~75ppm GH). I tried
some SeaChem stuff from the lps that's supposed to balance it out at 7,
but that didn't work...

Anywho, it's not urgent as the fishies appeared to have had caviar for
their midnight snack <g> But I appreciate the advice and hope to get
the chance in the future to try it out.

Liz

[Elaine T]

Liz wrote:
> Thanks Gill and Elaine.
>
> My main tank isn't actually done cycling (it's my first tank ever and
> I've made some mistakes (which I'm trying to correct)). I've got
> nitrites and nitrates, but still ammonia, so I think I've got both
> kinds of bacteria, just not enough. I'm controlling it with frequent
> water changes until it's done... (I don't have anyone with an existing
> tank to give me some bacteria, and have heard not to get it from the
> pet store; but recently found a source of bio-spira (added yesterday
> after a big water change), so I'm hoping it speeds up finishing the
> process.)
>
> Once the process is done, then I'll take your advice on cycling the QT
> tank, and keep it fed with ammonia (finally found some tonight) so it's
> ready if I need it (either for fry or for QT).
>
> About the pH level - if that's what it takes, it's unlikely the fry
> would survive, cuz I can't seem to get the water here to go lower (it's
> 7.4 out of the tap and pretty hard ~150ppm KH, ~75ppm GH). I tried
> some SeaChem stuff from the lps that's supposed to balance it out at 7,
> but that didn't work...
>
> Anywho, it's not urgent as the fishies appeared to have had caviar for
> their midnight snack <g> But I appreciate the advice and hope to get
> the chance in the future to try it out.
>
> Liz
>
Heh. Fish do love their caviar. Your tank will cycle just fine and I
bet all the fresh water from water changes is what's making your
rasboras amorous. I keep my Q-tank cycled with a betta and jar him for
a while if I need the Q-tank. Feeding a betta is much more fun than
adding ammonia to a tank.

As for the soft water, you would have to start with distilled water, RO
water, or clean rainwater (hard to come by these days). You mix it with
just enough tapwater or RO Right to give 2 dH - barely enough to hold a
steady pH. Put it in a jug or into the breeding tank with a big hunk of
peat and let it sit for a week or two. Supposedly that's the magic
water for breeding and raising rasboras and tetras.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Liz]

Elaine,

Thanks for the recipe for low pH water - again, I've copied this stuff
off to a text file for reference.

Regarding the Betta - it always seemed to me like they must be terribly
lonely all alone in a tank.... I know you can't get two males or even
two fish in a little tiny tank (my QT tank is either 2 or 2.5 g (forget
which)), so I hadn't planned on putting fish in there... Are Bettas
really OK all alone or is that something we've forced on them in our
silly quest for watching a good fight?

Anywho, I'll give it some thought. Any guidelines on what would keep a
Betta comfy (in terms of physical space - the QT tank is a tall hexagon
thing - not a lot of side-to-side room - OK for quarantining some new
neons (that was the plan when I got it), not sure if it's OK for
anything else...

Thanks,

Liz

PS: This hobby is awfully addictive - tank one isn't cycled yet and I'm
already imagining what my next tank will look like (gonna go with
plants and set it up right when the time comes). :-)

[Liz]

"First, admit that you are powerless over your fish... ;-) "

Well, first I admitted that I was powerless of the cats (down to just
one now); then I admitted I was powerless over the dogs (we have two);
so it shouldn't be hard at all to admit that I'm powerless over the
fish... <vbg>

Now the question is, how do I get out of this silly systems analyst job
and into something that involves creatures rather than people - seems
like it would be much more satisfying... :-)

Liz

[Elaine T]

Liz wrote:
> Elaine,
>
> Thanks for the recipe for low pH water - again, I've copied this stuff
> off to a text file for reference.
>
> Regarding the Betta - it always seemed to me like they must be terribly
> lonely all alone in a tank.... I know you can't get two males or even
> two fish in a little tiny tank (my QT tank is either 2 or 2.5 g (forget
> which)), so I hadn't planned on putting fish in there... Are Bettas
> really OK all alone or is that something we've forced on them in our
> silly quest for watching a good fight?

Well, I had one betta that chased and attacked anything that I put in
the tank with him, in any size tank up to 10 gallons. I tried shrimp,
otos, harlequins, and guppies (they still bear the scars) before I
finally gave the fish his solo tank. I would say that betta was not
lonely at all. I've been able to put small fish like white clouds in
with most of my other bettas, but they seem to ignore the other fish
rather than swimming with them. Even female bettas are quarrelsome,
prefering to stake out territory rather than shoal together.

I also prefer keeping male bettas solo because they are not fond of much
current, can be finicky feeders, and are prone to getting their flowing
fins nipped by other fish. I usually keep them with a sponge filter so
the current doesn't break up their bubblenests. Now, a betta in a
community is a beautiful sight - it just doesn't often work out.

> Anywho, I'll give it some thought. Any guidelines on what would keep a
> Betta comfy (in terms of physical space - the QT tank is a tall hexagon
> thing - not a lot of side-to-side room - OK for quarantining some new
> neons (that was the plan when I got it), not sure if it's OK for
> anything else...

As far as water quality, two is gallons plenty if you change 50% of the
water weekly. With plants, you can change less. As for swimming space,
I've never had the space in my house to devote to a solo betta in
anything larger than 2.5 gallons and my normal betta "house" is a 2
gallon hex. People who put bettas in larger tanks say their fish use
the whole tank and would never go back to anything smaller. ymmv...

> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
> PS: This hobby is awfully addictive - tank one isn't cycled yet and I'm
> already imagining what my next tank will look like (gonna go with
> plants and set it up right when the time comes). :-)

We call that "Multiple Tank Syndrome" or MTS for short. You're in very
good company. First, admit that you are powerless over your fish... ;-)

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Liz wrote:
> Elaine,
>
> Thanks for the recipe for low pH water - again, I've copied this stuff
> off to a text file for reference.
>
> Regarding the Betta - it always seemed to me like they must be terribly
> lonely all alone in a tank.... I know you can't get two males or even
> two fish in a little tiny tank (my QT tank is either 2 or 2.5 g (forget
> which)), so I hadn't planned on putting fish in there... Are Bettas
> really OK all alone or is that something we've forced on them in our
> silly quest for watching a good fight?
>
> Anywho, I'll give it some thought. Any guidelines on what would keep a
> Betta comfy (in terms of physical space - the QT tank is a tall hexagon
> thing - not a lot of side-to-side room - OK for quarantining some new
> neons (that was the plan when I got it), not sure if it's OK for
> anything else...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
> PS: This hobby is awfully addictive - tank one isn't cycled yet and I'm
> already imagining what my next tank will look like (gonna go with
> plants and set it up right when the time comes). :-)
>
My betta's aren't lonely...or at least don't seem that way. I am their
flair buddy - each time I go near the tanks they come out from wherever
they are and "tart" themselves at me. I don't think they have a problem
being on their own (in fact one has his Platy buddy but it is a very
uncomfortable arrangement for the fish)....

I use 5 gall tanks per betta - mainly because these are the smallest
tanks I can buy unless I visit Pets at Home etc...

Oh, and I know about the addiction - I'm a total addict and just love it :-)

Gill

[Liz]

Thanks, Gill - I'll start researching Bettas :-)

BTW: Looks like my tank is finally in the home stretch - ammonia is
dropping on its own, without needing water changes (I'll be watching
for the nitrite to do the same now).

Liz

[NetMax]

"Liz" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> "First, admit that you are powerless over your fish... ;-) "
>
> Well, first I admitted that I was powerless of the cats (down to just
> one now); then I admitted I was powerless over the dogs (we have two);
> so it shouldn't be hard at all to admit that I'm powerless over the
> fish... <vbg>
>
> Now the question is, how do I get out of this silly systems analyst job
> and into something that involves creatures rather than people - seems
> like it would be much more satisfying... :-)
>
> Liz


I'd keep the systems analyst job as it'll help pay for your hobby. Also
making a profession out of a hobby can sometimes work against you, unless
you are independently wealthy and don't have to derive any income from
your profession.

As an aside, whenever I was setting up a new tank, I was already planning
my next two. At one point, I was overseeing over 100 tanks, and I was
still not running out of ideas (not even close), so beware ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz]

NetMax - yes, I'll have to keep the job (for now)....

In the meantime, though, I'm staying away from you in case it's
contagious!!

Liz

[NetMax]

"Liz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> NetMax - yes, I'll have to keep the job (for now)....
>
> In the meantime, though, I'm staying away from you in case it's
> contagious!!
>
> Liz


lol, contagious and I'm a bad influence, though I now have my own habit
reasonably under control, with only two tanks operating and a third under
construction. I can live vicariously through others for a while...
beware ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz]

"I can live vicariously through others for a while...
beware ;~). "

Hmm... That sounds rather predatory! :-) I'll have to start hunting
for armor... <g>

Liz

[NetMax]

"Liz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> "I can live vicariously through others for a while...
> beware ;~). "
>
> Hmm... That sounds rather predatory! :-) I'll have to start hunting
> for armor... <g>
>
> Liz


Finally! .. someone sensible enough to appreciate the trouble I can cause
;~).

To further cement my reputation, and distinguish myself amongst my
esteemed colleagues and addicts here, my first job was in a pet shop (in
the sixties!) where I worked for 25 cents an hour in store credit (I was
too young to be on payroll). I used the credits on aquariums and fish
supplies, and as a fringe benefit, I also took home, to repair, defective
filters and heaters (causing me to later pursue an electro-mechanical
engineering path to continue supporting my addiction). My dream is to
build an aquarium around a house basement, and since I now know enough to
be able to do it, all that holds me back is money. For that, I've
partnered with another hobbyist (although unsuspecting of my true nature,
he will be corrupted), and we are operating a small but growing non-fish
related business empire. My alter ego may be a CEO, but it's only a
means to a riverfront home with municipal, well and river water to mix to
the recipes of the world's fishes ... bwaaah haaaa haaa
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz]

NetMax - you schemer you! I wish you luck (and your partner more!)...

:-)

Liz

[Elaine T]

NetMax wrote:

> Finally! .. someone sensible enough to appreciate the trouble I can cause
> ;~).
>
> To further cement my reputation, and distinguish myself amongst my
> esteemed colleagues and addicts here, my first job was in a pet shop (in
> the sixties!) where I worked for 25 cents an hour in store credit (I was
> too young to be on payroll). I used the credits on aquariums and fish
> supplies, and as a fringe benefit, I also took home, to repair, defective
> filters and heaters (causing me to later pursue an electro-mechanical
> engineering path to continue supporting my addiction). My dream is to
> build an aquarium around a house basement, and since I now know enough to
> be able to do it, all that holds me back is money. For that, I've
> partnered with another hobbyist (although unsuspecting of my true nature,
> he will be corrupted), and we are operating a small but growing non-fish
> related business empire. My alter ego may be a CEO, but it's only a
> means to a riverfront home with municipal, well and river water to mix to
> the recipes of the world's fishes ... bwaaah haaaa haaa

Now THAT is a cool scheme. I've been feeling the urge to work in a fish
store again, but BF is smart enough to keep me focused on the graduate
work. Gotta keep in a high-paying field to go all out in the hobby. ;-)

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com