Ground Cover?

[Bill Stock]

What's a good ground cover for a tank with moderate hardness, good light and
CO2?

A Tropica search turned up this one Lilaeopsis mauritiana , any better
choices? Also, what about gravel vacuuming when you have a ground cover? I
gather skimming the surface to remove any loose debris is safe? I imagine
the fertilizer requirements really jump with a ground cover? I have a bit of
shade from the Ludwigia, will this be a problem for the Lilaeopsis?

Thanks.

[Empty]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:04:49 -0500, Bill Stock wrote:

> What's a good ground cover for a tank with moderate hardness, good light and
> CO2?

If it is bright enough, glossostigma elatanoides will make a good cover.
It requires bright light, good CO2, and a nutrient rich substrate.

Other good choices include the various lilaeopsis and echinidorus tenellus
(narrow leaf chain sword). If you don't mind either buying a ton off the
bat or waiting forever for it to fill in, cryptocoryne willisi is small,
and dwarf hairgrass can make a very beautiful foreground as well.

Check out plantgeek.net- they have a plant DB where you can search by tank
placement and see the foreground plants commonly used.

> Also, what about gravel vacuuming when you have a ground cover?

In a heavily planted tank you should not need to do much. Sucking up big
globs of the stuff is fine, but actually churning the gravel past the
first 1/4" or so should be unnecessary.

> I
> imagine the fertilizer requirements really jump with a ground cover?

Most ground covers will want a fertile substrate. What kind of substrate
do you have in there now?

> have a bit of shade from the Ludwigia, will this be a problem for the
> Lilaeopsis?

It should be fine, but you may consider padding that area with some
midground species that will do well in shade, like cryptocorynes.

~Empty

[Bill Stock]

Thanks for tyhe detailed reply.

See below.


"Empty" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:04:49 -0500, Bill Stock wrote:
>
>> What's a good ground cover for a tank with moderate hardness, good light
>> and
>> CO2?
>
> If it is bright enough, glossostigma elatanoides will make a good cover.
> It requires bright light, good CO2, and a nutrient rich substrate.

My substrate is questionable, just regular aquarium gravel. But definately
full of fish poop by now. I may sow some Fluorite with it.

> Other good choices include the various lilaeopsis and echinidorus tenellus
> (narrow leaf chain sword). If you don't mind either buying a ton off the
> bat or waiting forever for it to fill in, cryptocoryne willisi is small,
> and dwarf hairgrass can make a very beautiful foreground as well.

I really like the Microswords.

> Check out plantgeek.net- they have a plant DB where you can search by tank
> placement and see the foreground plants commonly used.

Thanks, very nice site.


>> Also, what about gravel vacuuming when you have a ground cover?
>
> In a heavily planted tank you should not need to do much. Sucking up big
> globs of the stuff is fine, but actually churning the gravel past the
> first 1/4" or so should be unnecessary.

This is more or less what I do now to clean up the Cabomba shedding.

>> I imagine the fertilizer requirements really jump with a ground cover?
>
> Most ground covers will want a fertile substrate. What kind of substrate
> do you have in there now?
>
>> have a bit of shade from the Ludwigia, will this be a problem for the
>> Lilaeopsis?
>
> It should be fine, but you may consider padding that area with some
> midground species that will do well in shade, like cryptocorynes.
>
> ~Empty

Thanks again.

[Larry Blanchard]

Empty wrote:
>
> Other good choices include the various lilaeopsis and echinidorus
> tenellus (narrow leaf chain sword).

A half dozen E. tennellus took about 3 months to completely cover the
bottom of my 10 gallon tank. Since then I've "harvested" double
handfuls every few months.

IOW, it's a great ground cover, but if it were a land based plant in my
garden I'd have to keep it in a sunken pot to keep it from replacing my
lawn :-).

[Empty]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:51:44 -0500, Bill Stock wrote:

>> If it is bright enough, glossostigma elatanoides will make a good cover.
>> It requires bright light, good CO2, and a nutrient rich substrate.
>
> My substrate is questionable, just regular aquarium gravel. But definately
> full of fish poop by now. I may sow some Fluorite with it.

I did this with my 55 and ended up displeased with the ugliness of the
substrate. If I were tearing everything out and starting fresh I would use
all Fluorite or Onyx(well, OK, I would use gravel over a layer of soil but
if you are new at this you'd be better off with a nonlayered "complete"
substrate like the flourite).

> I really like the Microswords.

Yeah, they are cool- I'll be adding some myself as soon as I either find
them locally or get an online order worked up.

>> In a heavily planted tank you should not need to do much. Sucking up
>> big globs of the stuff is fine, but actually churning the gravel past
>> the first 1/4" or so should be unnecessary.
>
> This is more or less what I do now to clean up the Cabomba shedding.

Yep, the goal is to get the big stuff off the surface and let the lower
levels of substrate get handled by roots and bacteria.

> Thanks again.

Not a problem :)

~Empty

[Bill Stock]

"Empty" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:51:44 -0500, Bill Stock wrote:
>
>>> If it is bright enough, glossostigma elatanoides will make a good cover.
>>> It requires bright light, good CO2, and a nutrient rich substrate.
>>
>> My substrate is questionable, just regular aquarium gravel. But
>> definately
>> full of fish poop by now. I may sow some Fluorite with it.
>
> I did this with my 55 and ended up displeased with the ugliness of the
> substrate. If I were tearing everything out and starting fresh I would use
> all Fluorite or Onyx(well, OK, I would use gravel over a layer of soil but
> if you are new at this you'd be better off with a nonlayered "complete"
> substrate like the flourite).

My existing plants are in pots (soup bowls) buried in the gravel. They are
layered with Fluorite, Aquatic Soil and a thin layer of aquarium gravel. The
tank was converted from GF, so it still has an RUGF filter in place. I got
into the plants more heavily than anticipated or I would have ripped out the
gravel and filter when I moved the GF. The bowls are a temporary solution,
until I tear it down "one day".

I 'm a little concerned about the aesthetics of Fluourite and black gravel
as well. I also wondered if the Fluorite would be hard on the Loaches.


>> I really like the Microswords.
>
> Yeah, they are cool- I'll be adding some myself as soon as I either find
> them locally or get an online order worked up.
>
>>> In a heavily planted tank you should not need to do much. Sucking up
>>> big globs of the stuff is fine, but actually churning the gravel past
>>> the first 1/4" or so should be unnecessary.
>>
>> This is more or less what I do now to clean up the Cabomba shedding.
>
> Yep, the goal is to get the big stuff off the surface and let the lower
> levels of substrate get handled by roots and bacteria.
>
>> Thanks again.
>
> Not a problem :)
>
> ~Empty

[Bill Stock]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Empty wrote:
>>
>> Other good choices include the various lilaeopsis and echinidorus
>> tenellus (narrow leaf chain sword).
>
> A half dozen E. tennellus took about 3 months to completely cover the
> bottom of my 10 gallon tank. Since then I've "harvested" double handfuls
> every few months.
>
> IOW, it's a great ground cover, but if it were a land based plant in my
> garden I'd have to keep it in a sunken pot to keep it from replacing my
> lawn :-).

Thanks Larry, what's your substrate?

[Larry Blanchard]

Bill Stock wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
> ...
>

>> A half dozen E. tennellus took about 3 months to completely cover
>> the bottom of my 10 gallon tank. Since then I've "harvested"
>> double handfuls every few months.
>>

>
> Thanks Larry, what's your substrate?
>

I put in a whole 25 pound bag of Eco-Complete and covered that with
coarse sand. That was a year ago and I've only added mico-elements
since. I recently started adding the Fluorish Excel for carbon and it
looks like I may be harvesting more often now :-).

BTW, between the Eco-Complete and the plants I never saw any ammonia and
very little nitrite. I'm now overstocked and still only have to change
10% a week to keep nitrates within limits.

The tank holds:

1 male betta
2 male platys
3 corys
3 otos
4 small clown loaches.

I don't know how I've been so lucky, but I'm certainly not complaining :-).

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >, says...
> That sounds spectacular! Pity I can't get sunset hygro in California.
> I keep looking for someone with cuttings.
>
Have you tried online? Places like aquarium plants.com have an amazing
number of plant varieties.

--
It's turtles, all the way down.

[NetMax]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> What's a good ground cover for a tank with moderate hardness, good light
> and CO2?
>
> A Tropica search turned up this one Lilaeopsis mauritiana , any better
> choices? Also, what about gravel vacuuming when you have a ground cover? I
> gather skimming the surface to remove any loose debris is safe? I imagine
> the fertilizer requirements really jump with a ground cover? I have a bit
> of shade from the Ludwigia, will this be a problem for the Lilaeopsis?
>
> Thanks.


A co-worker planted Hygrophila polysperma "Rosanervig" Sunset Hygrophilia
along the entire bottom of a 60G Neon tetra species tank (several hundred
Neons, 80W lights, no CO2). He planted them deeply and sideways with the
intention of making a Sunset ground cover. After about 6 months, most of
the bottom was covered in Sunset Hygro to a height of about 2 inches. The
only maintenance was to re-plant any shoots which grew towards the water's
surface (or cut them after the bottom was covered). This made a very
interesting layering of the tank, with the Neons above, and we later added a
few Otos and a shrimp colony which lived underneath the Hygro's canopy.
Note that Sunset Hygro is not a ground cover plant, but many plants can be
'trained' and pruned into a ground cover configuration, with very
interesting and unusual results.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Bill Stock]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What's a good ground cover for a tank with moderate hardness, good light
>> and CO2?
>>
>> A Tropica search turned up this one Lilaeopsis mauritiana , any better
>> choices? Also, what about gravel vacuuming when you have a ground cover?
>> I gather skimming the surface to remove any loose debris is safe? I
>> imagine the fertilizer requirements really jump with a ground cover? I
>> have a bit of shade from the Ludwigia, will this be a problem for the
>> Lilaeopsis?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
> A co-worker planted Hygrophila polysperma "Rosanervig" Sunset Hygrophilia
> along the entire bottom of a 60G Neon tetra species tank (several hundred
> Neons, 80W lights, no CO2). He planted them deeply and sideways with the
> intention of making a Sunset ground cover. After about 6 months, most of
> the bottom was covered in Sunset Hygro to a height of about 2 inches. The
> only maintenance was to re-plant any shoots which grew towards the water's
> surface (or cut them after the bottom was covered). This made a very
> interesting layering of the tank, with the Neons above, and we later added
> a few Otos and a shrimp colony which lived underneath the Hygro's canopy.
> Note that Sunset Hygro is not a ground cover plant, but many plants can be
> 'trained' and pruned into a ground cover configuration, with very
> interesting and unusual results.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

Thanks, I went looking for ground cover today, but got the "those are coming
in next week" refrain. :)

I ended up with Hydrocoytle Verticillata and Hydrocoytle Sibthorpioides,
neither of which seems like what I want after a little research. Oh well, I
did get a couple of decent swords for the 10 gallon and a boat load of Otos
to replenish the herd.

[Elaine T]

NetMax wrote:
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>What's a good ground cover for a tank with moderate hardness, good light
>>and CO2?
>>
>>A Tropica search turned up this one Lilaeopsis mauritiana , any better
>>choices? Also, what about gravel vacuuming when you have a ground cover? I
>>gather skimming the surface to remove any loose debris is safe? I imagine
>>the fertilizer requirements really jump with a ground cover? I have a bit
>>of shade from the Ludwigia, will this be a problem for the Lilaeopsis?
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>
>
> A co-worker planted Hygrophila polysperma "Rosanervig" Sunset Hygrophilia
> along the entire bottom of a 60G Neon tetra species tank (several hundred
> Neons, 80W lights, no CO2). He planted them deeply and sideways with the
> intention of making a Sunset ground cover. After about 6 months, most of
> the bottom was covered in Sunset Hygro to a height of about 2 inches. The
> only maintenance was to re-plant any shoots which grew towards the water's
> surface (or cut them after the bottom was covered). This made a very
> interesting layering of the tank, with the Neons above, and we later added a
> few Otos and a shrimp colony which lived underneath the Hygro's canopy.
> Note that Sunset Hygro is not a ground cover plant, but many plants can be
> 'trained' and pruned into a ground cover configuration, with very
> interesting and unusual results.

That sounds spectacular! Pity I can't get sunset hygro in California.
I keep looking for someone with cuttings.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
>>That sounds spectacular! Pity I can't get sunset hygro in California.
>>I keep looking for someone with cuttings.
>>
>
> Have you tried online? Places like aquarium plants.com have an amazing
> number of plant varieties.
>
I've gotten some wonderful plants online. However, it seems to be
illegal to ship sunset hygro (and a number of other aquatic plants) into
the state. The California laws are restrictive enough that many online
aquarium plant distributors won't even ship here at all. The selection
of plants in my local fish stores is disappointing for much the same reason.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Larry Blanchard]

Elaine T wrote:

>>
> I've gotten some wonderful plants online. However, it seems to be
> illegal to ship sunset hygro (and a number of other aquatic plants) into
> the state. The California laws are restrictive enough that many online
> aquarium plant distributors won't even ship here at all. The selection
> of plants in my local fish stores is disappointing for much the same
> reason.
>

Washingtom apparently has the opposite problem. Even the chain stores
carry milfoil, despite the fact that it has clogged several lakes in my
vicinity and many bucks are spent trying to eradicate it.

But who ever said politicians were logical?

[Larry Blanchard]

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:25:47 -0700, Empty wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:59:34 -0800, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
>> Washingtom apparently has the opposite problem. Even the chain stores
>> carry milfoil
>
> I think it is on the Federal Noxious Weeds list, so none of them should be
> carrying it.
>

I thought so too :-). OTOH, I'm quite careful that none in my tanks goes
anywhere but into the trash - silly in a way, since we're on septic :-).

> If you live in Seattle or get near there, drop in to Kings Discus- a cool
> fish store in the international district that focuses mostly on large
> hungry fish ;)
>
Sounds interesting, but I'm in Spokane.

[Empty]

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:59:34 -0800, Larry Blanchard wrote:

> Washingtom apparently has the opposite problem. Even the chain stores
> carry milfoil, despite the fact that it has clogged several lakes in my
> vicinity and many bucks are spent trying to eradicate it.

I think it is on the Federal Noxious Weeds list, so none of them should be
carrying it.

If you live in Seattle or get near there, drop in to Kings Discus- a cool
fish store in the international district that focuses mostly on large
hungry fish ;)

~Empty

[Empty]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:29:57 -0800, Larry Blanchard wrote:

> I thought so too :-). OTOH, I'm quite careful that none in my tanks goes
> anywhere but into the trash - silly in a way, since we're on septic :-).

I always trashed mine too. Here in AZ I just toss it on the back porch and
throw it away when I get around to it. For some reason aquatic plants
don't like being dry in AZ sun ;)

>> If you live in Seattle or get near there, drop in to Kings Discus- a
>> cool fish store in the international district that focuses mostly on
>> large hungry fish ;)
>>
> Sounds interesting, but I'm in Spokane.

So now it just sounds like an opportunity for a road trip! :P

~Empty