how do you avoid swim bladder?

[cadnyc]

i'm curious to know how you guys avoid swim bladder? it seems like
everytime i feed my fish flakes or soaked pellets, they wants to flip. i
know it can be avoided by fasting on a certain day, feed them pea's and
Spirulnia Flakes.

[Navy Diver]

no much you can do for now except maybe surgery. you can see what other
options are available but because of the body proportions of the Oranda
this condition is inherent . . .

http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#new

[Carol-Ann]

"cadnyc" > wrote in message
...
> i'm curious to know how you guys avoid swim bladder? it seems like
> everytime i feed my fish flakes or soaked pellets, they wants to flip. i
> know it can be avoided by fasting on a certain day, feed them pea's and
> Spirulnia Flakes.
===========================
Avoid it? I haven't found that possible and once they have it, it keeps
recurring until they die. Some of these deformed goldfish should not be
bred and sold in my opinion. Their insides are too deformed for them to
live long, and they die lingering and probably painful deaths. This
distresses their owners who have to watch them suffering. Some of these
fish are also very expensive.

I myself recently bought 4 pearlscales since I haven't had this problem with
them in the past. I hope none of these develop it in the future.
--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

It is very hard to avoid...an interesting thing that I have noticed is
pond vs aquarium.....the wide body fish do much better in the pond than
the aquarium with less swim bladder tendencies.
Genetic is the most important part.....not much you can do about it.
The next thing would be water quality.....very good chemically and
aeration. The next thing is a easily digestible diet.....Wardley's
shrimp pellets soaked in tank water at least 10 minutes, frozen brine
shrimp in the water (small cube), shelled green peas in the mix. This
has worked very well for me...it took about 2 weeks on this diet to
take hold. Hope this helps.....also I aquarium salt the water every
couple of months for a week.
Larry
Carmichael-Sacramento
Carol-Ann wrote:
> "cadnyc" > wrote in message
> ...
> > i'm curious to know how you guys avoid swim bladder? it seems like
> > everytime i feed my fish flakes or soaked pellets, they wants to flip. i
> > know it can be avoided by fasting on a certain day, feed them pea's and
> > Spirulnia Flakes.
> ===========================
> Avoid it? I haven't found that possible and once they have it, it keeps
> recurring until they die. Some of these deformed goldfish should not be
> bred and sold in my opinion. Their insides are too deformed for them to
> live long, and they die lingering and probably painful deaths. This
> distresses their owners who have to watch them suffering. Some of these
> fish are also very expensive.
>
> I myself recently bought 4 pearlscales since I haven't had this problem with
> them in the past. I hope none of these develop it in the future.
> --
> Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems

yes, and the key difference is GF in a pond eat a tiny bit all day long. no big
meals and there is NO stomach in GF. I think the dry food combined with the amount
we feed is behind most floaty problems. Jo Ann, who rarely had problems with her
huge monsters, fed very small amounts a couple times a day.
we tend to think how much we would eat and then feed GF accordingly, but fish in
general put on 1 lb of weight for every 2 lbs of food given. GF need proteins and
fats, the water based kinds and NO carbohydrates. So TINY amounts of pure protein
and fats at a time will give them all they need to thrive (remember brine shrimp,
real shrimp, fish meats are only something like 18% protein, there is a LOT of water
in the food. )
I would go further and say feed only high protein sinking food that has been crumbled
and soaked for a while. Feed tiny amounts. GF are going to always act like they are
dying of hunger ... it is in their nature to beg for food all the time.
I have switched my dogs from "kibble" to raw meat and bones and they are doing so
much better. GF eat the little critters that live off the bacteria and stuff
associated with algae and plants. Ideally we would be able to get small pressed
blocks of live little critters to feed our guys. dont know how we could ensure there
wasnt parasites coming along tho. something about processing the food, cooking and
packaging it kills off nutrients and enzymes that the live food has.
I guess the best we can do is brine shrimp, chopped up human grade shrimp, maybe some
chopped up other fish. ah well.
Ingrid

" > wrote:
>It is very hard to avoid...an interesting thing that I have noticed is
>pond vs aquarium.....the wide body fish do much better in the pond than
>the aquarium with less swim bladder tendencies.


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[Carol-Ann]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> It is very hard to avoid...an interesting thing that I have noticed is
> pond vs aquarium.....the wide body fish do much better in the pond than
> the aquarium with less swim bladder tendencies.

## This is very true. None of my outdoor fish developed the problem. It
was always the indoor fish.

> Genetic is the most important part.....not much you can do about it.

## Also true.

> The next thing would be water quality.....very good chemically and
> aeration. The next thing is a easily digestible diet.....Wardley's
> shrimp pellets soaked in tank water at least 10 minutes, frozen brine
> shrimp in the water (small cube), shelled green peas in the mix.

## I've had floaters on just about every diet I've tried over the years but
never in a comet, feeder or shubunkin. The Pearlscales and black Moors
(indoors) also seem to be resistant. At least that's been my experience.
I'm hoping to move my Pearlies outdoors next summer as they all do so much
better outside in pools and ponds.

This
> has worked very well for me...it took about 2 weeks on this diet to
> take hold. Hope this helps.....also I aquarium salt the water every
> couple of months for a week.

## Whatever diet works the best.........
--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

Reel McKoi....followed your link to your pond and aquarium
pictures.....I am in impressed to see such beautiful ponds....I would
love to have your property....
We have one pond and love every minute of it.....It maintains my
sanity....
What type of diet to you feed your pond and aquarium fish???? I only
feed once a day....I am afraid I would over feed if more than once a
day. The pond fish are like cattle that graze on pond plants and algae
all day long....This seems more natural to mimic a real environment.
I have found aquariums to be a lot more challenging.....constant water
changes(at least two a week)....for my goldfish (Orandas). I think one
is ready for the pond, but might wait until spring....this one Oranda
is quite a character.
Larry
Carmichael/Sacramento

[Dawn]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Reel McKoi....followed your link to your pond and aquarium
> pictures.....I am in impressed to see such beautiful ponds....I would
> love to have your property....

## Thank you. It is beautiful and we're very happy with it. We even have
a small area that looks like a park with a path running through it.

> We have one pond and love every minute of it.....It maintains my
> sanity....

## I know exactly what you mean. :-)

> What type of diet to you feed your pond and aquarium fish????

## The pond goldfish and koi get a mix of mainly catfish chow, trout chow
and a handful of kitten and puppy chow - all mixed together. They thrive on
it and it's a fraction of the price of koi and GF foods. The indoor fish,
much smaller than the pond fish get OSI, Hikari, shrimp pellets and the
usual foods you see in the stores and in catalogs.

I only
> feed once a day....I am afraid I would over feed if more than once a
> day.

## Everything here gets fed twice a day. The pond fish are down to once a
day now because the water is cooling. The indoor fish are sometimes even
fed 3 times a day - all they can eat in a few minutes. After awhile you get
to judge the correct amount to feed them.

The pond fish are like cattle that graze on pond plants and algae
> all day long....This seems more natural to mimic a real environment.

## And they all do so much better outside. Fish tanks are not the greatest
substitute for the outdoor environment. Outside they grow faster and their
color is always deeper and richer. Also, no floaters if you keep the fancy
goldfish - at least in my experience.

> I have found aquariums to be a lot more challenging.....constant water
> changes(at least two a week)....for my goldfish (Orandas). I think one
> is ready for the pond, but might wait until spring....this one Oranda
> is quite a character.
> Larry
> Carmichael/Sacramento

## Even small GF live over the winter here in zone 6 TN. I always keep an
opening in any ice that forms. Aquariums are a lot more work than ponds.
No doubt about that. I may tire of these indoor tanks again as I did a few
years ago. The endless partial water changes usually is what gets to
me.........
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

I am experimiting with a undergravel filter for the aquarium
fish....the Koiman claims it is far superior to regular UF..... So far
I have not noticed any difference....it does oxygenate the water
better....I also use an Emperor 280 on the tank....I agree the partial
water changes are a bit much..but the nitrates creep up so fast....in
the pond we have Koi, Shubunkin, GF and Orandas...the aquarium I have 4
Orandas in a 34 gal hex.....
Keep me posted on your ponds and aquariums....You really do have great
ponds...What to you think about Watkins for the Pond?
Larry
Carmichael/Sacramento

[Dawn]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I am experimiting with a undergravel filter for the aquarium
> fish....the Koiman claims it is far superior to regular UF..... So far
> I have not noticed any difference....it does oxygenate the water
> better....I also use an Emperor 280 on the tank....I agree the partial
> water changes are a bit much..but the nitrates creep up so fast...

## I use hornwart and pond weed (elodia) to help keep down the nitrates and
phosphates - nonetheless the water gets yellowish and I'm sure other
pollutants are building up.... Ugh! I have the tank not to far from the
door now so they'll be easier to drain. I had a python which was a waste of
money to refill the tanks. The hose would never stay in the tanks and the
adapter always leaked, spraying water, then finally split so I'm back to
using pails to refill the tanks.

..in
> the pond we have Koi, Shubunkin, GF and Orandas...the aquarium I have 4
> Orandas in a 34 gal hex.....
> Keep me posted on your ponds and aquariums....You really do have great
> ponds...What to you think about Watkins for the Pond?
> Larry
> Carmichael/Sacramento

## What are "Watkins?" Is that a type of GF?
--
...... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

Yes.....from what I know and have seen is that they are more energetic.
hardy and aggressive than regular goldfish. They have vivid colors
reds, whites, etc. Also you would not want to mix them with fancy
goldfish as they would eat all the food.
Larry
Carmichael/Sacramento

[Dawn]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Yes.....from what I know and have seen is that they are more energetic.
> hardy and aggressive than regular goldfish. They have vivid colors
> reds, whites, etc. Also you would not want to mix them with fancy
> goldfish as they would eat all the food.
========================
Thanks. I think I know what they are now. I don't mix the slow moving
fancies with the slimmer GF for just that reason, they don't compete well
with them for food.

Right now with my 4 little pearlies alone in that 55g the tank, the tank
looks empty. I bought 5 but one didn't live long. I'll leave the 4 to
their roomy home. :-)
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>