buffer problem

[Royce]

Hi folks. I haven't visited the NG for a while, but I seem to be having a
little bit of a problem, and thought I'd give it a try. I'm having trouble
maintaining dKH, but I'm not sure if it's a big problem. I'm recently
having to add buffer more often to maintain the desired level. It drops
from 10-11 to about 8.0-8.5 within four or five days. My reef is well
established, up and running for approximately three years, with healthy
corals and good SPS growth. It's a 90 gallon with a refugium w/skimmer
set-up. Water parameters are all good and stable, but the dKH seems to drop
too quickly. After more than a year and a half of working on establishing
what I thought was a good routine at dosing and keeping dKH and calcium
levels balanced and stable, I got a little lax and didn't test very often.
I really didn't think I had a problem with the buffer until I experienced a
small "snowstorm" recently that was a result of my trying to bump the
calcium up too much while the dKH was too low. I was able to get everything
back to acceptable levels pretty quick, but I started watching the dKH
closely and noticed that it drops too quickly. There's probably a fairly
heavy demand for calcium, but I've always been able to maintain it between
410-420 with kalkwasser for make up water, and by dosing a small amount of
Kent's Turbo calcium about once a week. I use Kent's Superbuffer for the
alkalinity. There's a mix of corals, with some SPS, and a couple of clams.
I do have a lot of rock relative to the size of the tank, and it's
completely covered with coralline, as is the back glass and the overflow. I
also maintain magnesium at approximately 1300-1320 by adding it at one week
intervals. I use Instant Ocean and do a 20% water change every-other week.
I used to drip the buffer at the same time I dripped the turbo calcium (In
separate containers mixed with RO water), but now I have to add buffer more
often. I don't test for nitrates anymore, but I've read that high nitrates
could cause problems with dKH. There does seem to be a small amount of
detritus, but the bio load is pretty light, and I don't overfeed my fish.
All of the water parameters are fine and stay pretty stable, except for the
dKH. Again, the corals are healthy with good growth, and the clams are
healthy and show good growth too. For a long time I was able to keep levels
balanced using the Superbuffer and Turbo Calcium, but I'm now considering
switching a two part product to see if that will help stabilize things. Do
the two products I'm using create some kind of imbalance? Would I be better
off with a two-part product? Please let me know if I need to give more
information about my water parameters or about my system. Any help is
appreciated.
Royce

[Dragon Slayer]

Royce if your levels drop to 8 and stay there, that is where your system is
balanced at and that is fine.

a lot of reefers tend to try and get higher then NSW levels of dKH for
different reasons but having it at a constant 8 dKH w/ your 420 ppm Ca is
perfectly acceptable and is a very nicely balanced system


kc

"Royce" > wrote in message
...
> Hi folks. I haven't visited the NG for a while, but I seem to be having a
> little bit of a problem, and thought I'd give it a try. I'm having
trouble
> maintaining dKH, but I'm not sure if it's a big problem. I'm recently
> having to add buffer more often to maintain the desired level. It drops
> from 10-11 to about 8.0-8.5 within four or five days. My reef is well
> established, up and running for approximately three years, with healthy
> corals and good SPS growth. It's a 90 gallon with a refugium w/skimmer
> set-up. Water parameters are all good and stable, but the dKH seems to
drop
> too quickly. After more than a year and a half of working on establishing
> what I thought was a good routine at dosing and keeping dKH and calcium
> levels balanced and stable, I got a little lax and didn't test very often.
> I really didn't think I had a problem with the buffer until I experienced
a
> small "snowstorm" recently that was a result of my trying to bump the
> calcium up too much while the dKH was too low. I was able to get
everything
> back to acceptable levels pretty quick, but I started watching the dKH
> closely and noticed that it drops too quickly. There's probably a fairly
> heavy demand for calcium, but I've always been able to maintain it between
> 410-420 with kalkwasser for make up water, and by dosing a small amount of
> Kent's Turbo calcium about once a week. I use Kent's Superbuffer for the
> alkalinity. There's a mix of corals, with some SPS, and a couple of
clams.
> I do have a lot of rock relative to the size of the tank, and it's
> completely covered with coralline, as is the back glass and the overflow.
I
> also maintain magnesium at approximately 1300-1320 by adding it at one
week
> intervals. I use Instant Ocean and do a 20% water change every-other
week.
> I used to drip the buffer at the same time I dripped the turbo calcium (In
> separate containers mixed with RO water), but now I have to add buffer
more
> often. I don't test for nitrates anymore, but I've read that high
nitrates
> could cause problems with dKH. There does seem to be a small amount of
> detritus, but the bio load is pretty light, and I don't overfeed my fish.
> All of the water parameters are fine and stay pretty stable, except for
the
> dKH. Again, the corals are healthy with good growth, and the clams are
> healthy and show good growth too. For a long time I was able to keep
levels
> balanced using the Superbuffer and Turbo Calcium, but I'm now considering
> switching a two part product to see if that will help stabilize things.
Do
> the two products I'm using create some kind of imbalance? Would I be
better
> off with a two-part product? Please let me know if I need to give more
> information about my water parameters or about my system. Any help is
> appreciated.
> Royce
>
>

[Royce]

Thanks for the good advice. It's just that I'm always afraid of calcium
precipitation or pH drop if dKH is too low. The snowstorm scared me, I was
scared I would wind up with a calcium coating all over everything, but it
didn't happen and was easy to correct. Things weren't too far out of whack,
though. I try to keep the calcium elevated because I think the demand's
high in my system. Although I have read that as long as it's constantly
available at acceptable levels (380 or so?), everything's fine. Do you see
any reason for the quick dKH drop, though? Seems like you're saying it will
be easier to maintain it at the lower level than at 10 or 11 dKH.

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> Royce if your levels drop to 8 and stay there, that is where your system
is
> balanced at and that is fine.
>
> a lot of reefers tend to try and get higher then NSW levels of dKH for
> different reasons but having it at a constant 8 dKH w/ your 420 ppm Ca is
> perfectly acceptable and is a very nicely balanced system
>
>
> kc
>
> "Royce" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi folks. I haven't visited the NG for a while, but I seem to be having
a
> > little bit of a problem, and thought I'd give it a try. I'm having
> trouble
> > maintaining dKH, but I'm not sure if it's a big problem. I'm recently
> > having to add buffer more often to maintain the desired level. It drops
> > from 10-11 to about 8.0-8.5 within four or five days. My reef is well
> > established, up and running for approximately three years, with healthy
> > corals and good SPS growth. It's a 90 gallon with a refugium w/skimmer
> > set-up. Water parameters are all good and stable, but the dKH seems to
> drop
> > too quickly. After more than a year and a half of working on
establishing
> > what I thought was a good routine at dosing and keeping dKH and calcium
> > levels balanced and stable, I got a little lax and didn't test very
often.
> > I really didn't think I had a problem with the buffer until I
experienced
> a
> > small "snowstorm" recently that was a result of my trying to bump the
> > calcium up too much while the dKH was too low. I was able to get
> everything
> > back to acceptable levels pretty quick, but I started watching the dKH
> > closely and noticed that it drops too quickly. There's probably a
fairly
> > heavy demand for calcium, but I've always been able to maintain it
between
> > 410-420 with kalkwasser for make up water, and by dosing a small amount
of
> > Kent's Turbo calcium about once a week. I use Kent's Superbuffer for
the
> > alkalinity. There's a mix of corals, with some SPS, and a couple of
> clams.
> > I do have a lot of rock relative to the size of the tank, and it's
> > completely covered with coralline, as is the back glass and the
overflow.
> I
> > also maintain magnesium at approximately 1300-1320 by adding it at one
> week
> > intervals. I use Instant Ocean and do a 20% water change every-other
> week.
> > I used to drip the buffer at the same time I dripped the turbo calcium
(In
> > separate containers mixed with RO water), but now I have to add buffer
> more
> > often. I don't test for nitrates anymore, but I've read that high
> nitrates
> > could cause problems with dKH. There does seem to be a small amount of
> > detritus, but the bio load is pretty light, and I don't overfeed my
fish.
> > All of the water parameters are fine and stay pretty stable, except for
> the
> > dKH. Again, the corals are healthy with good growth, and the clams are
> > healthy and show good growth too. For a long time I was able to keep
> levels
> > balanced using the Superbuffer and Turbo Calcium, but I'm now
considering
> > switching a two part product to see if that will help stabilize things.
> Do
> > the two products I'm using create some kind of imbalance? Would I be
> better
> > off with a two-part product? Please let me know if I need to give more
> > information about my water parameters or about my system. Any help is
> > appreciated.
> > Royce
> >
> >
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

Randy Holmes-Farley has some great articals on all of this and how Alk use
in the aquarium of 5 dkh will only use 20ppm Ca. and so forth and so on

his articals have helped myself and a many of others with questions about
the demands of your tank as well as what are balanced levels that dont need
adjustments.

this link should help you with anything you need to know about the subject.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

and this one will give you a lot of information on the alk/ca levels needed
in your tank and how to get there from where your tank is now....if your
tanks is off.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

hth
kc

[Royce]

Thanks for the good info. I think it's like you stated in the earlier
response. The levels of NSW offer the best balance. I guess the reason
for the tendency to bump everything so high is that there seems to be more
calcium available for better growth, and higher dKH seems to offer more
protection against pH problems. The more I read the more I realize that's
probably a myth. Thanks again for the links and info. I'm going to go do
some more reading.
Royce

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> Randy Holmes-Farley has some great articals on all of this and how Alk
use
> in the aquarium of 5 dkh will only use 20ppm Ca. and so forth and so on
>
> his articals have helped myself and a many of others with questions about
> the demands of your tank as well as what are balanced levels that dont
need
> adjustments.
>
> this link should help you with anything you need to know about the
subject.
>
> http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605
>
> and this one will give you a lot of information on the alk/ca levels
needed
> in your tank and how to get there from where your tank is now....if your
> tanks is off.
>
> http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm
>
> hth
> kc
>
>

[AC]

I have been having the same problem in my 90 gallon. Thanks for that link.
It appears that I am not really having a problem at all. If I do, now I
know how to fix it.

Thanks,

Aaron
"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> Randy Holmes-Farley has some great articals on all of this and how Alk
use
> in the aquarium of 5 dkh will only use 20ppm Ca. and so forth and so on
>
> his articals have helped myself and a many of others with questions about
> the demands of your tank as well as what are balanced levels that dont
need
> adjustments.
>
> this link should help you with anything you need to know about the
subject.
>
> http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605
>
> and this one will give you a lot of information on the alk/ca levels
needed
> in your tank and how to get there from where your tank is now....if your
> tanks is off.
>
> http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm
>
> hth
> kc
>
>