clown loaches [Archive] - FishKeepingBanter.com

Dick

November 12th 05, 10:54 AM

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:40:09 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Justice wrote:
>> I at the moment have 2 clown loaches and have been reading that they
>> should be kept in at least a group of 3. they are about 2" long, should
>> I get 1 more. I have a 10 gal at the moment, untill I can afford a 30+
>> gal for them. They also share the tank with 3 glowlight tetras. Both are
>> really cool fish. I love when I see my loaches on sleeping upside down
>> on the other one sleppeing on its side. :)
>
>With Clowns I reckon the more the merrier :-) I would normally go for
>the option of at least 3 but it really has to be weighed up against what
>you can accommodate and I'd not be inclined if I was in your place to
>buy anymore right now - they can grow quite large very quickly....The
>questions that you need to be asking is whether your Clowns are happy?
>By this I mean are they feeding well, out in the open and dancing and no
>sign of ich? If the answer is yes stick with what you have got until you
>get the bigger tank. If they seem reserved and shy adding one more might
>help but this has to be weighed up against overloading the tank....
>
>I've got 5 at the moment in one of my tanks....they are great fish :-)
>Glad you are enjoying yours
>
>Gill

Gill, how big are your Clowns? How long have you had them? None of
my 11 Clowns are more than 4 inches and I have had them for 2 1/2
years. They have not gotten larger in the last year.

I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank. They are 3 inches or more. I
see no difference in those two from the 6 in my 75 gallon tank or the
3 in a 29 gallon tank. I used to worry about them out growing my 10
gallon tank. I quit worrying when I saw the SAEs were larger and all
have stopped growing.

One might believe those in the 10 had inhibited growth, but that
wouldn't be the case for those in the 75. My largest Clown is in a 29
gallon tank.

dick

Gill Passman

November 12th 05, 12:32 PM

Dick wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:40:09 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Justice wrote:
>>
>>>I at the moment have 2 clown loaches and have been reading that they
>>>should be kept in at least a group of 3. they are about 2" long, should
>>>I get 1 more. I have a 10 gal at the moment, untill I can afford a 30+
>>>gal for them. They also share the tank with 3 glowlight tetras. Both are
>>>really cool fish. I love when I see my loaches on sleeping upside down
>>>on the other one sleppeing on its side. :)
>>
>>With Clowns I reckon the more the merrier :-) I would normally go for
>>the option of at least 3 but it really has to be weighed up against what
>>you can accommodate and I'd not be inclined if I was in your place to
>>buy anymore right now - they can grow quite large very quickly....The
>>questions that you need to be asking is whether your Clowns are happy?
>>By this I mean are they feeding well, out in the open and dancing and no
>>sign of ich? If the answer is yes stick with what you have got until you
>>get the bigger tank. If they seem reserved and shy adding one more might
>>help but this has to be weighed up against overloading the tank....
>>
>>I've got 5 at the moment in one of my tanks....they are great fish :-)
>>Glad you are enjoying yours
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> Gill, how big are your Clowns? How long have you had them? None of
> my 11 Clowns are more than 4 inches and I have had them for 2 1/2
> years. They have not gotten larger in the last year.
>
> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank. They are 3 inches or more. I
> see no difference in those two from the 6 in my 75 gallon tank or the
> 3 in a 29 gallon tank. I used to worry about them out growing my 10
> gallon tank. I quit worrying when I saw the SAEs were larger and all
> have stopped growing.
>
> One might believe those in the 10 had inhibited growth, but that
> wouldn't be the case for those in the 75. My largest Clown is in a 29
> gallon tank.
>
> dick
>
>
Two of them are heading for around 4 inches but I did buy them at around
that size - couldn't resist when I saw a tank full of around twenty of
them all dancing up and down - I rue the day now as they brought Ich
into the tank which I still can't fully get rid of (4 weeks down the
line) - doesn't seem to bother the fish too much right now though so I'm
making progress. They are feeding well, out and about, and have good
colour and aren't nervous at all (they feed from my hand).

The other three I've had around 8 weeks or so now. They were around 1
1/2" when I got them - they grew quite rapidly and I would say one of
them is now 3", one is 3 1/2" and the other just below 2". They are in a
4 foot 47.5UK gall tank. I was suprised at how quickly they've grown - I
was already planning a tank upgrade but think this may need to move
forward if the Clowns keep growing at this rate - lol

My previous Clowns, that I lost in the summer :-(, also seemed to grow
at different rates but nowhere near as fast as these - guess it might
depend on the Clowns :-)

Gill

Dick

November 13th 05, 11:19 AM

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:32:25 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:40:09 +0000, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Justice wrote:
>>>
>>>>I at the moment have 2 clown loaches and have been reading that they
>>>>should be kept in at least a group of 3. they are about 2" long, should
>>>>I get 1 more. I have a 10 gal at the moment, untill I can afford a 30+
>>>>gal for them. They also share the tank with 3 glowlight tetras. Both are
>>>>really cool fish. I love when I see my loaches on sleeping upside down
>>>>on the other one sleppeing on its side. :)
>>>
>>>With Clowns I reckon the more the merrier :-) I would normally go for
>>>the option of at least 3 but it really has to be weighed up against what
>>>you can accommodate and I'd not be inclined if I was in your place to
>>>buy anymore right now - they can grow quite large very quickly....The
>>>questions that you need to be asking is whether your Clowns are happy?
>>>By this I mean are they feeding well, out in the open and dancing and no
>>>sign of ich? If the answer is yes stick with what you have got until you
>>>get the bigger tank. If they seem reserved and shy adding one more might
>>>help but this has to be weighed up against overloading the tank....
>>>
>>>I've got 5 at the moment in one of my tanks....they are great fish :-)
>>>Glad you are enjoying yours
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>
>> Gill, how big are your Clowns? How long have you had them? None of
>> my 11 Clowns are more than 4 inches and I have had them for 2 1/2
>> years. They have not gotten larger in the last year.
>>
>> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank. They are 3 inches or more. I
>> see no difference in those two from the 6 in my 75 gallon tank or the
>> 3 in a 29 gallon tank. I used to worry about them out growing my 10
>> gallon tank. I quit worrying when I saw the SAEs were larger and all
>> have stopped growing.
>>
>> One might believe those in the 10 had inhibited growth, but that
>> wouldn't be the case for those in the 75. My largest Clown is in a 29
>> gallon tank.
>>
>> dick
>>
>>
>Two of them are heading for around 4 inches but I did buy them at around
>that size - couldn't resist when I saw a tank full of around twenty of
>them all dancing up and down - I rue the day now as they brought Ich
>into the tank which I still can't fully get rid of (4 weeks down the
>line) - doesn't seem to bother the fish too much right now though so I'm
>making progress. They are feeding well, out and about, and have good
>colour and aren't nervous at all (they feed from my hand).
>
>The other three I've had around 8 weeks or so now. They were around 1
>1/2" when I got them - they grew quite rapidly and I would say one of
>them is now 3", one is 3 1/2" and the other just below 2". They are in a
>4 foot 47.5UK gall tank. I was suprised at how quickly they've grown - I
>was already planning a tank upgrade but think this may need to move
>forward if the Clowns keep growing at this rate - lol
>
>My previous Clowns, that I lost in the summer :-(, also seemed to grow
>at different rates but nowhere near as fast as these - guess it might
>depend on the Clowns :-)
>
>Gill

I received 6 Clowns from an internet vendor that had ich. I had
started my first tank (75 gallon) 6 months earlier and had about 50
fish of various types. I didn't have any medicines on hand. So while
waiting for ich medicine to arrive I tried various things like raising
temperature and covering tank to keep out all light. However, nothing
worked. I finally got the Rid Ich, but only 2 of the 6 Clowns
responded. Finally I "put down" the other 4.

Later, thinking about the experience, I was taken by the thought that
the ich had not spread to the other fish in my community tank. So,
your experience is different than mine. I concluded that healthy fish
do not get ich.

dick

Gill Passman

November 13th 05, 11:41 AM

Dick wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:32:25 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Dick wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:40:09 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Justice wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I at the moment have 2 clown loaches and have been reading that they
>>>>>should be kept in at least a group of 3. they are about 2" long, should
>>>>>I get 1 more. I have a 10 gal at the moment, untill I can afford a 30+
>>>>>gal for them. They also share the tank with 3 glowlight tetras. Both are
>>>>>really cool fish. I love when I see my loaches on sleeping upside down
>>>>>on the other one sleppeing on its side. :)
>>>>
>>>>With Clowns I reckon the more the merrier :-) I would normally go for
>>>>the option of at least 3 but it really has to be weighed up against what
>>>>you can accommodate and I'd not be inclined if I was in your place to
>>>>buy anymore right now - they can grow quite large very quickly....The
>>>>questions that you need to be asking is whether your Clowns are happy?
>>>>By this I mean are they feeding well, out in the open and dancing and no
>>>>sign of ich? If the answer is yes stick with what you have got until you
>>>>get the bigger tank. If they seem reserved and shy adding one more might
>>>>help but this has to be weighed up against overloading the tank....
>>>>
>>>>I've got 5 at the moment in one of my tanks....they are great fish :-)
>>>>Glad you are enjoying yours
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>>
>>>
>>>Gill, how big are your Clowns? How long have you had them? None of
>>>my 11 Clowns are more than 4 inches and I have had them for 2 1/2
>>>years. They have not gotten larger in the last year.
>>>
>>>I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank. They are 3 inches or more. I
>>>see no difference in those two from the 6 in my 75 gallon tank or the
>>>3 in a 29 gallon tank. I used to worry about them out growing my 10
>>>gallon tank. I quit worrying when I saw the SAEs were larger and all
>>>have stopped growing.
>>>
>>>One might believe those in the 10 had inhibited growth, but that
>>>wouldn't be the case for those in the 75. My largest Clown is in a 29
>>>gallon tank.
>>>
>>>dick
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Two of them are heading for around 4 inches but I did buy them at around
>>that size - couldn't resist when I saw a tank full of around twenty of
>>them all dancing up and down - I rue the day now as they brought Ich
>>into the tank which I still can't fully get rid of (4 weeks down the
>>line) - doesn't seem to bother the fish too much right now though so I'm
>>making progress. They are feeding well, out and about, and have good
>>colour and aren't nervous at all (they feed from my hand).
>>
>>The other three I've had around 8 weeks or so now. They were around 1
>>1/2" when I got them - they grew quite rapidly and I would say one of
>>them is now 3", one is 3 1/2" and the other just below 2". They are in a
>>4 foot 47.5UK gall tank. I was suprised at how quickly they've grown - I
>>was already planning a tank upgrade but think this may need to move
>>forward if the Clowns keep growing at this rate - lol
>>
>>My previous Clowns, that I lost in the summer :-(, also seemed to grow
>>at different rates but nowhere near as fast as these - guess it might
>>depend on the Clowns :-)
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> I received 6 Clowns from an internet vendor that had ich. I had
> started my first tank (75 gallon) 6 months earlier and had about 50
> fish of various types. I didn't have any medicines on hand. So while
> waiting for ich medicine to arrive I tried various things like raising
> temperature and covering tank to keep out all light. However, nothing
> worked. I finally got the Rid Ich, but only 2 of the 6 Clowns
> responded. Finally I "put down" the other 4.
>
> Later, thinking about the experience, I was taken by the thought that
> the ich had not spread to the other fish in my community tank. So,
> your experience is different than mine. I concluded that healthy fish
> do not get ich.
>
> dick

I certainly think that there is some mileage in your conclusion
regarding healthy fish not getting Ich. None of my other fish have any
at all (unless it is hidden in the gills). I always wondered if some
fish get a built in resistance to ich after a certain amount of exposure.

The fact that my Clowns haven't responded to either of the readily
available Ich cures leads me to think that there is another factor in
this. Although the water quality tests out fine and the Clowns
themselves, apart from the odd bit of flashing, seem perfectly happy -
eat well, don't hide, dance etc. - it's just they've got spots.....and
can be clear for a day or so and then they come back.....Think I need to
really sit down and consider what is going on with these fish and come
up with another strategy for dealing with it - various LFS's have
suggested it might be a stress thing but right now I can't think of what
might be stressing them or if it is stress why the fish are behaving in
a completely unstressed fashion.....

Gill

Gill

Justice

November 13th 05, 06:12 PM

Gill Passman wrote:
> Dick wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:32:25 +0000, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Dick wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:40:09 +0000, Gill Passman
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Justice wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I at the moment have 2 clown loaches and have been reading that
>>>>>> they should be kept in at least a group of 3. they are about 2"
>>>>>> long, should I get 1 more. I have a 10 gal at the moment, untill I
>>>>>> can afford a 30+ gal for them. They also share the tank with 3
>>>>>> glowlight tetras. Both are really cool fish. I love when I see my
>>>>>> loaches on sleeping upside down on the other one sleppeing on its
>>>>>> side. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With Clowns I reckon the more the merrier :-) I would normally go
>>>>> for the option of at least 3 but it really has to be weighed up
>>>>> against what you can accommodate and I'd not be inclined if I was
>>>>> in your place to buy anymore right now - they can grow quite large
>>>>> very quickly....The questions that you need to be asking is whether
>>>>> your Clowns are happy? By this I mean are they feeding well, out in
>>>>> the open and dancing and no sign of ich? If the answer is yes stick
>>>>> with what you have got until you get the bigger tank. If they seem
>>>>> reserved and shy adding one more might help but this has to be
>>>>> weighed up against overloading the tank....
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got 5 at the moment in one of my tanks....they are great fish
>>>>> :-) Glad you are enjoying yours
>>>>>
>>>>> Gill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gill, how big are your Clowns? How long have you had them? None of
>>>> my 11 Clowns are more than 4 inches and I have had them for 2 1/2
>>>> years. They have not gotten larger in the last year.
>>>>
>>>> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank. They are 3 inches or more. I
>>>> see no difference in those two from the 6 in my 75 gallon tank or the
>>>> 3 in a 29 gallon tank. I used to worry about them out growing my 10
>>>> gallon tank. I quit worrying when I saw the SAEs were larger and all
>>>> have stopped growing.
>>>>
>>>> One might believe those in the 10 had inhibited growth, but that
>>>> wouldn't be the case for those in the 75. My largest Clown is in a 29
>>>> gallon tank.
>>>>
>>>> dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Two of them are heading for around 4 inches but I did buy them at
>>> around that size - couldn't resist when I saw a tank full of around
>>> twenty of them all dancing up and down - I rue the day now as they
>>> brought Ich into the tank which I still can't fully get rid of (4
>>> weeks down the line) - doesn't seem to bother the fish too much right
>>> now though so I'm making progress. They are feeding well, out and
>>> about, and have good colour and aren't nervous at all (they feed from
>>> my hand).
>>>
>>> The other three I've had around 8 weeks or so now. They were around 1
>>> 1/2" when I got them - they grew quite rapidly and I would say one of
>>> them is now 3", one is 3 1/2" and the other just below 2". They are
>>> in a 4 foot 47.5UK gall tank. I was suprised at how quickly they've
>>> grown - I was already planning a tank upgrade but think this may need
>>> to move forward if the Clowns keep growing at this rate - lol
>>>
>>> My previous Clowns, that I lost in the summer :-(, also seemed to
>>> grow at different rates but nowhere near as fast as these - guess it
>>> might depend on the Clowns :-)
>>>
>>> Gill
>>
>>
>>
>> I received 6 Clowns from an internet vendor that had ich. I had
>> started my first tank (75 gallon) 6 months earlier and had about 50
>> fish of various types. I didn't have any medicines on hand. So while
>> waiting for ich medicine to arrive I tried various things like raising
>> temperature and covering tank to keep out all light. However, nothing
>> worked. I finally got the Rid Ich, but only 2 of the 6 Clowns
>> responded. Finally I "put down" the other 4.
>>
>> Later, thinking about the experience, I was taken by the thought that
>> the ich had not spread to the other fish in my community tank. So,
>> your experience is different than mine. I concluded that healthy fish
>> do not get ich.
>>
>> dick
>
>
> I certainly think that there is some mileage in your conclusion
> regarding healthy fish not getting Ich. None of my other fish have any
> at all (unless it is hidden in the gills). I always wondered if some
> fish get a built in resistance to ich after a certain amount of exposure.
>
> The fact that my Clowns haven't responded to either of the readily
> available Ich cures leads me to think that there is another factor in
> this. Although the water quality tests out fine and the Clowns
> themselves, apart from the odd bit of flashing, seem perfectly happy -
> eat well, don't hide, dance etc. - it's just they've got spots.....and
> can be clear for a day or so and then they come back.....Think I need to
> really sit down and consider what is going on with these fish and come
> up with another strategy for dealing with it - various LFS's have
> suggested it might be a stress thing but right now I can't think of what
> might be stressing them or if it is stress why the fish are behaving in
> a completely unstressed fashion.....
>
> Gill
>
> Gill
from what I recently read in an old fish mag is that the slime coat is
the first defece agents any disiese. so dick is kind of right. although
if the fish has any abrasions or looses it's coat to any other meathod
it is a buffet for the pathagens. and up to the rest of the fishes amune
system

Dick

November 14th 05, 11:45 AM

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:41:15 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:32:25 +0000, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dick wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:40:09 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Justice wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I at the moment have 2 clown loaches and have been reading that they
>>>>>>should be kept in at least a group of 3. they are about 2" long, should
>>>>>>I get 1 more. I have a 10 gal at the moment, untill I can afford a 30+
>>>>>>gal for them. They also share the tank with 3 glowlight tetras. Both are
>>>>>>really cool fish. I love when I see my loaches on sleeping upside down
>>>>>>on the other one sleppeing on its side. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>With Clowns I reckon the more the merrier :-) I would normally go for
>>>>>the option of at least 3 but it really has to be weighed up against what
>>>>>you can accommodate and I'd not be inclined if I was in your place to
>>>>>buy anymore right now - they can grow quite large very quickly....The
>>>>>questions that you need to be asking is whether your Clowns are happy?
>>>>>By this I mean are they feeding well, out in the open and dancing and no
>>>>>sign of ich? If the answer is yes stick with what you have got until you
>>>>>get the bigger tank. If they seem reserved and shy adding one more might
>>>>>help but this has to be weighed up against overloading the tank....
>>>>>
>>>>>I've got 5 at the moment in one of my tanks....they are great fish :-)
>>>>>Glad you are enjoying yours
>>>>>
>>>>>Gill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gill, how big are your Clowns? How long have you had them? None of
>>>>my 11 Clowns are more than 4 inches and I have had them for 2 1/2
>>>>years. They have not gotten larger in the last year.
>>>>
>>>>I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank. They are 3 inches or more. I
>>>>see no difference in those two from the 6 in my 75 gallon tank or the
>>>>3 in a 29 gallon tank. I used to worry about them out growing my 10
>>>>gallon tank. I quit worrying when I saw the SAEs were larger and all
>>>>have stopped growing.
>>>>
>>>>One might believe those in the 10 had inhibited growth, but that
>>>>wouldn't be the case for those in the 75. My largest Clown is in a 29
>>>>gallon tank.
>>>>
>>>>dick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Two of them are heading for around 4 inches but I did buy them at around
>>>that size - couldn't resist when I saw a tank full of around twenty of
>>>them all dancing up and down - I rue the day now as they brought Ich
>>>into the tank which I still can't fully get rid of (4 weeks down the
>>>line) - doesn't seem to bother the fish too much right now though so I'm
>>>making progress. They are feeding well, out and about, and have good
>>>colour and aren't nervous at all (they feed from my hand).
>>>
>>>The other three I've had around 8 weeks or so now. They were around 1
>>>1/2" when I got them - they grew quite rapidly and I would say one of
>>>them is now 3", one is 3 1/2" and the other just below 2". They are in a
>>>4 foot 47.5UK gall tank. I was suprised at how quickly they've grown - I
>>>was already planning a tank upgrade but think this may need to move
>>>forward if the Clowns keep growing at this rate - lol
>>>
>>>My previous Clowns, that I lost in the summer :-(, also seemed to grow
>>>at different rates but nowhere near as fast as these - guess it might
>>>depend on the Clowns :-)
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>
>> I received 6 Clowns from an internet vendor that had ich. I had
>> started my first tank (75 gallon) 6 months earlier and had about 50
>> fish of various types. I didn't have any medicines on hand. So while
>> waiting for ich medicine to arrive I tried various things like raising
>> temperature and covering tank to keep out all light. However, nothing
>> worked. I finally got the Rid Ich, but only 2 of the 6 Clowns
>> responded. Finally I "put down" the other 4.
>>
>> Later, thinking about the experience, I was taken by the thought that
>> the ich had not spread to the other fish in my community tank. So,
>> your experience is different than mine. I concluded that healthy fish
>> do not get ich.
>>
>> dick
>
>I certainly think that there is some mileage in your conclusion
>regarding healthy fish not getting Ich. None of my other fish have any
>at all (unless it is hidden in the gills). I always wondered if some
>fish get a built in resistance to ich after a certain amount of exposure.

I don't think developed resistance is the answer. I only had my 75
gallon tank when I got the Clowns with ich. The tank had about 70
fish of various species at the time. I had the tank up for about 9
months and never had any illnesses before the ich. By the way, more
than 2 years after the ich, none of my fish have shown ich symptoms.
I thought my black mollies had ich, but it turned out to be something
else. The mollies would individually get one white spot on the top of
their head. It would go away within days or weeks with no treatment
on my part. Obviously not ich.

Frustrating to have these mysterious problems. I am pleased that many
"illnesses" have a way of solving themselves. I have developed a real
trust in regular water changes.

Good lord, I have been writing so long this morning, I am into
"feeding time." The front glass of my 3 tanks visible from my
computer is crawling with fish, what a sight!!! <g>

dick

>
>The fact that my Clowns haven't responded to either of the readily
>available Ich cures leads me to think that there is another factor in
>this. Although the water quality tests out fine and the Clowns
>themselves, apart from the odd bit of flashing, seem perfectly happy -
>eat well, don't hide, dance etc. - it's just they've got spots.....and
>can be clear for a day or so and then they come back.....Think I need to
>really sit down and consider what is going on with these fish and come
>up with another strategy for dealing with it - various LFS's have
>suggested it might be a stress thing but right now I can't think of what
>might be stressing them or if it is stress why the fish are behaving in
>a completely unstressed fashion.....
>
>Gill
>
>Gill

Dan Drake

November 14th 05, 08:10 PM

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:47:44 UTC, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

>
> "Dan Drake" > wrote in message
> news:vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-HptQR03mZ5E7@localhost...
>+...
> >
> > Likewise, I've had two in a 55 for a long time. It's certainly well over
> > ten years now. They're fat and happy. Some day I really must get a third
> > one.
> ====================
> How large did they get in those years?

They seem to have topped out years ago around four inches, but I'm no good
at determining fish sizes. Maybe it's five. They sure outweigh my various
4-inch rainbows.

--
Dan Drake

http://www.dandrake.com/
porlockjr.blogspot.com

Koi-lo

November 14th 05, 09:40 PM

"Dan Drake" > wrote in message
news:vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-0RsEPBSdNY53@localhost...
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:47:44 UTC, "Koi-lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Dan Drake" > wrote in message
>> news:vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-HptQR03mZ5E7@localhost...
>>+...
>> >
>> > Likewise, I've had two in a 55 for a long time. It's certainly well
>> > over
>> > ten years now. They're fat and happy. Some day I really must get a
>> > third
>> > one.
>> ====================
>> How large did they get in those years?
>
> They seem to have topped out years ago around four inches, but I'm no good
> at determining fish sizes. Maybe it's five. They sure outweigh my various
> 4-inch rainbows.
=======================
A 5" fish is the ideal size as far as I'm concerned. I so regret selling my
clowns, gold angels and other beauties I had in one of the 55s. But after
15 years without a break or real vacation, I sold all the fish and put the
tanks away for awhile. This was spurred on by pending trips to Atlanta,
Florida and NY to visit relatives. Fish don't fare well when left in the
hands of those with no interest and experience. And I'll admit the endless
partial water changes were growing old.

I just set some of them up again about 2 weeks ago. I have pearlscales in
one and the other is still fishless - just plants for now. I'm not sure
what I want to do with it. If I don't get tropicals I may bring on a few
Shubunkins or baby butterfly koi to have something swimming around all
winter. :-)
--
Reel McKoi.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Dick

November 15th 05, 11:01 AM

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:40:12 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Dan Drake" > wrote in message
>news:vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-0RsEPBSdNY53@localhost...
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:47:44 UTC, "Koi-lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Dan Drake" > wrote in message
>>> news:vhIsdqY67dTD-pn2-HptQR03mZ5E7@localhost...
>>>+...
>>> >
>>> > Likewise, I've had two in a 55 for a long time. It's certainly well
>>> > over
>>> > ten years now. They're fat and happy. Some day I really must get a
>>> > third
>>> > one.
>>> ====================
>>> How large did they get in those years?
>>
>> They seem to have topped out years ago around four inches, but I'm no good
>> at determining fish sizes. Maybe it's five. They sure outweigh my various
>> 4-inch rainbows.
>=======================
>A 5" fish is the ideal size as far as I'm concerned. I so regret selling my
>clowns, gold angels and other beauties I had in one of the 55s. But after
>15 years without a break or real vacation, I sold all the fish and put the
>tanks away for awhile. This was spurred on by pending trips to Atlanta,
>Florida and NY to visit relatives. Fish don't fare well when left in the
>hands of those with no interest and experience. And I'll admit the endless
>partial water changes were growing old.
>
> I just set some of them up again about 2 weeks ago. I have pearlscales in
>one and the other is still fishless - just plants for now. I'm not sure
>what I want to do with it. If I don't get tropicals I may bring on a few
>Shubunkins or baby butterfly koi to have something swimming around all
>winter. :-)

It is one of the sad parts of keeping fish, life style changes result
in the fish lives changing. I have gotten to where I don't even chase
my fish with a net if they are sick. I have convinced myself they are
more apt to get well if left in the tank where they are comfortable.

As a teenager I had no concern for the fish other than something to
look at. I have no memory of what I did with them, how I "got rid" of
them.

I sometimes think of them as burdens, but have no alternative life to
change to. I am glad that when I was a teenager, I was able to do
what ever I did and change my life to whatever had rid me of interest,
I just find no attractive alternatives now days.

I like having activity around me. I can see 3 of my tanks from my
computer. When I turn the computer on first thing in the morning, the
tank lights have just come on. For the most part the fish are
motionless or even out of sight. As feeding time approaches their
worlds come alive and there is a mass of fish flesh prowling around,
pretty dashing bits of color. Sometimes the adult Black Mollie dashes
at an intruder then pulls back or the SAEs and Clowns join together
for a morning shoal.

I have the same problem judging fish size. I think my Clowns do not
exceed 4 inches in comparison to the SAEs which may approach 5 inches,
then I look at the Blue Gouramis and one Black Angel and really wonder
what the sizes are. Of course none of them still long enough to
compare to a ruler.

dick

Koi-lo

November 15th 05, 11:33 PM

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>
> It is one of the sad parts of keeping fish, life style changes result
> in the fish lives changing.

## I know what you mean. I felt bad taking them down to the shop but I knew
their chance of survival with a stranger who was clueless was not good. As
it was, several valued bettas died on one of my trips to NYC. Even though I
went over everything with the person TWICE, she still overfed them - to
death. All the fish in that 55 had been together for awhile. It was like
breaking up a family.

I have gotten to where I don't even chase
> my fish with a net if they are sick. I have convinced myself they are
> more apt to get well if left in the tank where they are comfortable.

## I have been known to do that as well unless I'm sure it will die. In
that case I remove it to the quarantine tank so the other fish don't nibble
on it and perhaps catch something.

> As a teenager I had no concern for the fish other than something to
> look at. I have no memory of what I did with them, how I "got rid" of
> them.

## All I remember was me or my mother netting them out to dispose of down
the commode if they died. She didn't want them in the trashbag (smell).

> I sometimes think of them as burdens, but have no alternative life to
> change to. I am glad that when I was a teenager, I was able to do
> what ever I did and change my life to whatever had rid me of interest,
> I just find no attractive alternatives now days.

## My main interests in life are my ponds and my aquariums along with my
houseplant collection and my computer.

> I like having activity around me. I can see 3 of my tanks from my
> computer. When I turn the computer on first thing in the morning, the
> tank lights have just come on. For the most part the fish are
> motionless or even out of sight. As feeding time approaches their
> worlds come alive and there is a mass of fish flesh prowling around,
> pretty dashing bits of color. Sometimes the adult Black Mollie dashes
> at an intruder then pulls back or the SAEs and Clowns join together
> for a morning shoal.

## They're company, that's for sure. Do you have a cat or a dog? I find
dogs great company.

> I have the same problem judging fish size. I think my Clowns do not
> exceed 4 inches in comparison to the SAEs which may approach 5 inches,
> then I look at the Blue Gouramis and one Black Angel and really wonder
> what the sizes are. Of course none of them still long enough to
> compare to a ruler.

My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Dick

November 16th 05, 10:26 AM

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:33:46 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> It is one of the sad parts of keeping fish, life style changes result
>> in the fish lives changing.
>
>## I know what you mean. I felt bad taking them down to the shop but I knew
>their chance of survival with a stranger who was clueless was not good. As
>it was, several valued bettas died on one of my trips to NYC. Even though I
>went over everything with the person TWICE, she still overfed them - to
>death. All the fish in that 55 had been together for awhile. It was like
>breaking up a family.
>
>I have gotten to where I don't even chase
>> my fish with a net if they are sick. I have convinced myself they are
>> more apt to get well if left in the tank where they are comfortable.
>
>## I have been known to do that as well unless I'm sure it will die. In
>that case I remove it to the quarantine tank so the other fish don't nibble
>on it and perhaps catch something.
>
I recently chased an older Mollie in my 75 gallon tank. She was
clearly dying and was resting on an Anubia leaf. However, she had
enough spunk to make one more dash into some low vegetation. I never
saw her again. I will move a fish weak to the point of "allowing"
netting. One old swordtail with bent spine and close to blind I did
net out of the 75 and moved her to the Hospital tank so she could feed
easier as it has no gravel and only 2 other live bearers in the tank.
She lived another 6 months.

>> As a teenager I had no concern for the fish other than something to
>> look at. I have no memory of what I did with them, how I "got rid" of
>> them.
>
>## All I remember was me or my mother netting them out to dispose of down
>the commode if they died. She didn't want them in the trashbag (smell).
>
>> I sometimes think of them as burdens, but have no alternative life to
>> change to. I am glad that when I was a teenager, I was able to do
>> what ever I did and change my life to whatever had rid me of interest,
>> I just find no attractive alternatives now days.
>
>## My main interests in life are my ponds and my aquariums along with my
>houseplant collection and my computer.
>
I have no ponds and only lucky with plants in my tanks. I call my
computer my "window on the world." However, I spend a great part of
my day reading. The books take me into other lives, other places and
broaden my understanding of life.

>> I like having activity around me. I can see 3 of my tanks from my
>> computer. When I turn the computer on first thing in the morning, the
>> tank lights have just come on. For the most part the fish are
>> motionless or even out of sight. As feeding time approaches their
>> worlds come alive and there is a mass of fish flesh prowling around,
>> pretty dashing bits of color. Sometimes the adult Black Mollie dashes
>> at an intruder then pulls back or the SAEs and Clowns join together
>> for a morning shoal.
>
>## They're company, that's for sure. Do you have a cat or a dog? I find
>dogs great company.
>

I had 3 dogs for about 6 years, the last being a pup found by the
other 2 while on our morning walk on a "ranch road." Boots was only a
pup, about 3 months. He resisted our approach, so My 2 dogs and I
continued our walk. I looked down a few yards along and there was the
pup at my side. He played with the "big ones" over the course of our
walk. Now he is the only one left. A couple of weeks ago I had to
"put down" my 14 year old greyhound. One is never too old to cry, but
she was worth every tear and then some. It is taking Boots some time
to adjust to being number one dog, he has avoided some of the other 2
dogs favorite places and only recently allows himself to cuddle next
to me at night. Fortunately he is only 6 years of age and I can hope
to have him with me for some time.

dick

>> I have the same problem judging fish size. I think my Clowns do not
>> exceed 4 inches in comparison to the SAEs which may approach 5 inches,
>> then I look at the Blue Gouramis and one Black Angel and really wonder
>> what the sizes are. Of course none of them still long enough to
>> compare to a ruler.
>
>My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Koi-lo

November 16th 05, 08:08 PM

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:33:46 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
>>
> I recently chased an older Mollie in my 75 gallon tank. She was
> clearly dying and was resting on an Anubia leaf. However, she had
> enough spunk to make one more dash into some low vegetation. I never
> saw her again. I will move a fish weak to the point of "allowing"
> netting. One old swordtail with bent spine and close to blind I did
> net out of the 75 and moved her to the Hospital tank so she could feed
> easier as it has no gravel and only 2 other live bearers in the tank.
> She lived another 6 months.

## Pensioners I call those old fish living in the quarantine tank. :-)
Once alone they tend to hang on a bit longer. No competition I suppose. I
had a decrepit old betta who also hung on to life for months. Since I have
that tank and use it for both water plant propagation and to quarantine it's
no bother to keep those oldies until they "go" on their own.

>>## My main interests in life are my ponds and my aquariums along with my
>>houseplant collection and my computer.

> I have no ponds and only lucky with plants in my tanks. I call my
> computer my "window on the world." However, I spend a great part of
> my day reading. The books take me into other lives, other places and
> broaden my understanding of life.

## I love to read as well, but with the cost of books and magazines so high
these days I do more reading online.

A couple of weeks ago I had to
> "put down" my 14 year old greyhound. One is never too old to cry, but
> she was worth every tear and then some. It is taking Boots some time
> to adjust to being number one dog, he has avoided some of the other 2
> dogs favorite places and only recently allows himself to cuddle next
> to me at night. Fortunately he is only 6 years of age and I can hope
> to have him with me for some time.

## Again I relate. We recently had to put down our 15 year old dog. He
too was worth every tear. He was my constant companion for so long it was
hard, so hard..... but he was suffering. It would have been selfish not to
do it. He'd gone deaf, lost control of his bladder and was definitely
senile. I think of his as playing at that Rainbow Bridge and some day I
will see him again.

Rainbow Bridge
Author Unknown

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge. When an animal
dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to
Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends
so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and
sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor;
those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we
remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy
and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special
to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops
and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; his eager body
begins to quiver. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the
green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet,
you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy
kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and
you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from
your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together...
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Daniel Morrow

November 17th 05, 03:20 AM

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bottom posted.

- --
You can find my public key at https://keyserver1.pgp.com
"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:33:46 -0600, "Koi-lo"
>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> It is one of the sad parts of keeping fish, life style changes
result
> >> in the fish lives changing.
> >
> >## I know what you mean. I felt bad taking them down to the shop
but I knew
> >their chance of survival with a stranger who was clueless was not
good. As
> >it was, several valued bettas died on one of my trips to NYC.
Even though I
> >went over everything with the person TWICE, she still overfed them
- - to
> >death. All the fish in that 55 had been together for awhile. It
was like
> >breaking up a family.
> >
> >I have gotten to where I don't even chase
> >> my fish with a net if they are sick. I have convinced myself
they are
> >> more apt to get well if left in the tank where they are
comfortable.
> >
> >## I have been known to do that as well unless I'm sure it will
die. In
> >that case I remove it to the quarantine tank so the other fish
don't nibble
> >on it and perhaps catch something.
> >
> I recently chased an older Mollie in my 75 gallon tank. She was
> clearly dying and was resting on an Anubia leaf. However, she had
> enough spunk to make one more dash into some low vegetation. I
never
> saw her again. I will move a fish weak to the point of "allowing"
> netting. One old swordtail with bent spine and close to blind I
did
> net out of the 75 and moved her to the Hospital tank so she could
feed
> easier as it has no gravel and only 2 other live bearers in the
tank.
> She lived another 6 months.
>
> >> As a teenager I had no concern for the fish other than something
to
> >> look at. I have no memory of what I did with them, how I "got
rid" of
> >> them.
> >
> >## All I remember was me or my mother netting them out to dispose
of down
> >the commode if they died. She didn't want them in the trashbag
(smell).
> >
> >> I sometimes think of them as burdens, but have no alternative
life to
> >> change to. I am glad that when I was a teenager, I was able to
do
> >> what ever I did and change my life to whatever had rid me of
interest,
> >> I just find no attractive alternatives now days.
> >
> >## My main interests in life are my ponds and my aquariums along
with my
> >houseplant collection and my computer.
> >
> I have no ponds and only lucky with plants in my tanks. I call my
> computer my "window on the world." However, I spend a great part
of
> my day reading. The books take me into other lives, other places
and
> broaden my understanding of life.
>
> >> I like having activity around me. I can see 3 of my tanks from
my
> >> computer. When I turn the computer on first thing in the
morning, the
> >> tank lights have just come on. For the most part the fish are
> >> motionless or even out of sight. As feeding time approaches
their
> >> worlds come alive and there is a mass of fish flesh prowling
around,
> >> pretty dashing bits of color. Sometimes the adult Black Mollie
dashes
> >> at an intruder then pulls back or the SAEs and Clowns join
together
> >> for a morning shoal.
> >
> >## They're company, that's for sure. Do you have a cat or a dog?
I find
> >dogs great company.
> >
>
> I had 3 dogs for about 6 years, the last being a pup found by the
> other 2 while on our morning walk on a "ranch road." Boots was
only a
> pup, about 3 months. He resisted our approach, so My 2 dogs and I
> continued our walk. I looked down a few yards along and there was
the
> pup at my side. He played with the "big ones" over the course of
our
> walk. Now he is the only one left. A couple of weeks ago I had
to
> "put down" my 14 year old greyhound. One is never too old to cry,
but
> she was worth every tear and then some. It is taking Boots some
time
> to adjust to being number one dog, he has avoided some of the other
2
> dogs favorite places and only recently allows himself to cuddle
next
> to me at night. Fortunately he is only 6 years of age and I can
hope
> to have him with me for some time.
>
> dick
>
> >> I have the same problem judging fish size. I think my Clowns do
not
> >> exceed 4 inches in comparison to the SAEs which may approach 5
inches,
> >> then I look at the Blue Gouramis and one Black Angel and really
wonder
> >> what the sizes are. Of course none of them still long enough
to
> >> compare to a ruler.
> >
> >My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> >http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> >~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>

I am so sorry to hear that about ruby, dick. :-( If there is a god
let us all bless ruby, pray for her, and may she rest in peace.

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Larry Blanchard

November 17th 05, 09:54 AM

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:07:10 -0600, Dick wrote:

> However, I mostly want to understand why the "tour of duty" as a human. I
> have no desire for "heaven" to be a continual immersion in "beauty" or
> "goodness." I suspect we have functions on the other side much as our
> survival function on this side.

Yep - our function on the "other side" is to become fertilizer. Or fish
food if we are buried at sea :-).

The ego of our species in assuming we are immortal never ceases to amaze
me.

Since I'm sure to get some violent disagreements, let me say now I will
not respond to any religious rants. I shouldn't have responded to Dick.

Dick

November 17th 05, 11:07 AM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:08:23 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:33:46 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
>>>
>> I recently chased an older Mollie in my 75 gallon tank. She was
>> clearly dying and was resting on an Anubia leaf. However, she had
>> enough spunk to make one more dash into some low vegetation. I never
>> saw her again. I will move a fish weak to the point of "allowing"
>> netting. One old swordtail with bent spine and close to blind I did
>> net out of the 75 and moved her to the Hospital tank so she could feed
>> easier as it has no gravel and only 2 other live bearers in the tank.
>> She lived another 6 months.
>
>## Pensioners I call those old fish living in the quarantine tank. :-)
>Once alone they tend to hang on a bit longer. No competition I suppose. I
>had a decrepit old betta who also hung on to life for months. Since I have
>that tank and use it for both water plant propagation and to quarantine it's
>no bother to keep those oldies until they "go" on their own.
>
>>>## My main interests in life are my ponds and my aquariums along with my
>>>houseplant collection and my computer.
>
>> I have no ponds and only lucky with plants in my tanks. I call my
>> computer my "window on the world." However, I spend a great part of
>> my day reading. The books take me into other lives, other places and
>> broaden my understanding of life.
>
>## I love to read as well, but with the cost of books and magazines so high
>these days I do more reading online.

A lot of the book I read, I get from the library, however, once I find
an author I like, I find others by that author in Amazon. "Used"
books are onl one or two dollars and shipping three dollars.

>
> A couple of weeks ago I had to
>> "put down" my 14 year old greyhound. One is never too old to cry, but
>> she was worth every tear and then some. It is taking Boots some time
>> to adjust to being number one dog, he has avoided some of the other 2
>> dogs favorite places and only recently allows himself to cuddle next
>> to me at night. Fortunately he is only 6 years of age and I can hope
>> to have him with me for some time.
>
>## Again I relate. We recently had to put down our 15 year old dog. He
>too was worth every tear. He was my constant companion for so long it was
>hard, so hard..... but he was suffering. It would have been selfish not to
>do it. He'd gone deaf, lost control of his bladder and was definitely
>senile. I think of his as playing at that Rainbow Bridge and some day I
>will see him again.
>
>Rainbow Bridge
>Author Unknown
>
>Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge. When an animal
>dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to
>Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends
>so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and
>sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.
>
>All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor;
>those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we
>remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy
>and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special
>to them, who had to be left behind.
>
>They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops
>and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; his eager body
>begins to quiver. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the
>green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.
>
>You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet,
>you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy
>kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and
>you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from
>your life but never absent from your heart.
>
>Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together...

I like to think we are "born" to have experiences not available on the
"other side." Thus, my hope, is we all are basically "spiritual" in
our natural state and we can all associate in our old (spritual)
energy states and can freely commune with one another, regardless of
the earth forms we had. There are people I would like to see, but
most of the dogs I have lived with, I would like to "live" with again.

However, I mostly want to understand why the "tour of duty" as a
human. I have no desire for "heaven" to be a continual immersion in
"beauty" or "goodness." I suspect we have functions on the other side
much as our survival function on this side.

I know wrong group, wrong subject. I think "Clown Loaches" would
understand and accept. <g>

dick

Dick

November 17th 05, 11:10 AM

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:20:29 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>I am so sorry to hear that about ruby, dick. :-( If there is a god
>let us all bless ruby, pray for her, and may she rest in peace.

Thanks Dan, Ruby was very special. Ten years is a long time to live
with anyone (she was 4 when I "rescued" her.) But, those years were
definitely made better by her presence.

dick

Tynk

November 17th 05, 05:34 PM

Dick wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:20:29 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >I am so sorry to hear that about ruby, dick. :-( If there is a god
> >let us all bless ruby, pray for her, and may she rest in peace.
>
>
> Thanks Dan, Ruby was very special. Ten years is a long time to live
> with anyone (she was 4 when I "rescued" her.) But, those years were
> definitely made better by her presence.
>
> dick
> >I am so sorry to hear that about ruby, dick. :-( If there is a god
> >let us all bless ruby, pray for her, and may she rest in peace.
>
>
> Thanks Dan, Ruby was very special. Ten years is a long time to live
> with anyone (she was 4 when I "rescued" her.) But, those years were
> definitely made better by her presence.
>
> dick

Dick,
When the hubby and I were first married we got our first cat. Adopted
him from the humane society, well saved him that's for sure!
Anyway, Ziggy had only been with us 30 days exactly when he had a grand
seizure. Brought him to the vet right away. After doing hundreds of
dollars worth of bloodwork I was told my cat needed a catscan (pun
intended) to look for a brain tumor, as the bloodwork showed it wasn't
anything metabolic, such as epilepsy, etc. Being that it would cost
over a grand back then (tight budget for us back then) I couldn't
afford it. I was told he probably had a brain tumor and that I should
return him to the humane society and get a new cat because he might
live 24 hours, or maybe years, that there was no way to tell without
the scan.
I called the humane society and asked what would happen to him if I did
return him. I was told he would be put to sleep right away.
I had become so attached to this big guy (huge, fixed, 9 month old
kitten), that there was no way I would let him be killed just because
of the chance that he might die soon.
That cat was the best cat anyone could ask for. He never did anything
wrong....ever. Was the perfect gentleman. Absolutely wonderful with the
baby tugging on his ears and tail. Never even a dirty look, let a lone
a hiss or growl. They actually played like 2 kids together (hide and
seek and tag...I swear! I have witnesses, lol).
I had 15 wonderful years with that cat. At 15 1/2 he developed terrible
seizures.
He was on medication that only worked for a little bit until the
highest dosage couldn't keep his seizures under control.
He had to be put to sleep at 15 1/2 because the mediaction at that
point was making him like a zombie and he was seizing many times a day.
I couldn't be selfish and had to think of him, so we decided it was
time.
I think about him all the time and what would have happened to him if
somebody else had adopted him, or if his seizures would have started at
the humane society.
I was thankful for every day that I had him, and that he was still
around (knowing that he could go at any time, so I was aware that every
day I had him was a special one).
It's amazing how much these creatures affect out lives and hardly ask
for anything in return except love and attention.
Both your lives were better because you chose to open your home and
your heart to Ruby.
When you look deeply into their eyes you can see that they know how
much they are loved. I honestly believe that.

Koi-lo

November 18th 05, 04:31 AM

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:08:23 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
> wrote:
>>## I love to read as well, but with the cost of books and magazines so
>>high
>>these days I do more reading online.
===========
> A lot of the book I read, I get from the library, however, once I find
> an author I like, I find others by that author in Amazon. "Used"
> books are onl one or two dollars and shipping three dollars.

## I have a lot of pond and fish books. I just don't buy them as often as I
used to. The local library here doesn't have a good selection of fish
books. Most are old and the information outdated. I've read them all over
the years. I gave up the fish magazines because they began to cater too
much to the salt-water crowd. Between the adds and salt-water articles
there was little left to read.

> I like to think we are "born" to have experiences not available on the
> "other side." Thus, my hope, is we all are basically "spiritual" in
> our natural state and we can all associate in our old (spritual)
> energy states and can freely commune with one another, regardless of
> the earth forms we had. There are people I would like to see, but
> most of the dogs I have lived with, I would like to "live" with again.

## I can't help believe that THIS is all there is. When we're gone we're
gone. I could be 100% wrong. I guess I'm just not the spiritual type.

> However, I mostly want to understand why the "tour of duty" as a
> human. I have no desire for "heaven" to be a continual immersion in
> "beauty" or "goodness." I suspect we have functions on the other side
> much as our survival function on this side.
>
> I know wrong group, wrong subject. I think "Clown Loaches" would
> understand and accept. <g>

## No NG is always on-topic all the time. :-)

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Dick

November 18th 05, 11:00 AM

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:54:55 -0800, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:07:10 -0600, Dick wrote:
>
>> However, I mostly want to understand why the "tour of duty" as a human. I
>> have no desire for "heaven" to be a continual immersion in "beauty" or
>> "goodness." I suspect we have functions on the other side much as our
>> survival function on this side.
>
>Yep - our function on the "other side" is to become fertilizer. Or fish
>food if we are buried at sea :-).
>
>The ego of our species in assuming we are immortal never ceases to amaze
>me.
>
>Since I'm sure to get some violent disagreements, let me say now I will
>not respond to any religious rants. I shouldn't have responded to Dick.

I hope there are no rants also. However, I do not have a good enough
imagination to believe anything as complicated as a living cell could
ever come about by accident. Life from non life is a step of faith
beyond me. By the way, you do represent a "faith" that of atheist or
agnostic. I have tried to keep my mind open to our insignificance and
have no terror of returning to the dust of my making, but am more
comfortable accepting some form of Intelligence guiding evolution.
Having taken that step, my mind wonders what would be the purpose
behind such Intelligence. I reject all religious stories as
insufficient. If their be such Intelligence, its nature should be
demonstrated through the artifacts of life. Obviously the
Intelligence does no hold life to be so sacred as our existing
religions presume.

As I sit watching my fish I wonder at their individual activity. I
wonder at the unique shapes and coloring. I wonder at their
individual life cycles ending so variously. Life is so unique for
each just as our human existence. Unlike the fish lives, I do see a
pattern to human history. In the beginning there was separation, in
the middle conflict and today I see a sustained movement toward
cooperation.

My life, I get to have my own dreams.

dick

Dick

November 18th 05, 11:20 AM

On 17 Nov 2005 09:34:39 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:

>
>Dick wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:20:29 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >I am so sorry to hear that about ruby, dick. :-( If there is a god
>> >let us all bless ruby, pray for her, and may she rest in peace.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Dan, Ruby was very special. Ten years is a long time to live
>> with anyone (she was 4 when I "rescued" her.) But, those years were
>> definitely made better by her presence.
>>
>> dick
>> >I am so sorry to hear that about ruby, dick. :-( If there is a god
>> >let us all bless ruby, pray for her, and may she rest in peace.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Dan, Ruby was very special. Ten years is a long time to live
>> with anyone (she was 4 when I "rescued" her.) But, those years were
>> definitely made better by her presence.
>>
>> dick
>
>Dick,
>When the hubby and I were first married we got our first cat. Adopted
>him from the humane society, well saved him that's for sure!
>Anyway, Ziggy had only been with us 30 days exactly when he had a grand
>seizure. Brought him to the vet right away. After doing hundreds of
>dollars worth of bloodwork I was told my cat needed a catscan (pun
>intended) to look for a brain tumor, as the bloodwork showed it wasn't
>anything metabolic, such as epilepsy, etc. Being that it would cost
>over a grand back then (tight budget for us back then) I couldn't
>afford it. I was told he probably had a brain tumor and that I should
>return him to the humane society and get a new cat because he might
>live 24 hours, or maybe years, that there was no way to tell without
>the scan.
>I called the humane society and asked what would happen to him if I did
>return him. I was told he would be put to sleep right away.
>I had become so attached to this big guy (huge, fixed, 9 month old
>kitten), that there was no way I would let him be killed just because
>of the chance that he might die soon.
>That cat was the best cat anyone could ask for. He never did anything
>wrong....ever. Was the perfect gentleman. Absolutely wonderful with the
>baby tugging on his ears and tail. Never even a dirty look, let a lone
>a hiss or growl. They actually played like 2 kids together (hide and
>seek and tag...I swear! I have witnesses, lol).
>I had 15 wonderful years with that cat. At 15 1/2 he developed terrible
>seizures.
>He was on medication that only worked for a little bit until the
>highest dosage couldn't keep his seizures under control.
>He had to be put to sleep at 15 1/2 because the mediaction at that
>point was making him like a zombie and he was seizing many times a day.
>I couldn't be selfish and had to think of him, so we decided it was
>time.
>I think about him all the time and what would have happened to him if
>somebody else had adopted him, or if his seizures would have started at
>the humane society.
>I was thankful for every day that I had him, and that he was still
>around (knowing that he could go at any time, so I was aware that every
>day I had him was a special one).
>It's amazing how much these creatures affect out lives and hardly ask
>for anything in return except love and attention.
>Both your lives were better because you chose to open your home and
>your heart to Ruby.
>When you look deeply into their eyes you can see that they know how
>much they are loved. I honestly believe that.

Thanks for sharing. I know well the struggles and decsions needed.
Deciding life and death is so God like, then the recrimination that
lingers for years, did I really have to put the loved one "down."

I know the look of love well. Ruby had large open eyes that would
gently close as she was stroked. Especially when I stroked her chest
between the front legs.

I think my fish are watching as well. That is part of the comfort for
me as I have no human companions. I look forward to communing in
these newsgroups as there are so many caring people.

dick