My aquarium observations and experiences

[Joe Barta]

Thought I'd take the time to jot down a few thoughts, observations,
experiences and conclusions for posterity. In the last couple years
I've learned a lot about my aquarium. I suppose I'm still learning,
and by no means an expert, so feel free to ignore my ramblings or
point out where I'm hopelessly clueless.

In those last couple years I did a lot of searching and reading of the
web and these newsgroups to either look for a solution to a problem or
just for general knowledge. I found a lot of information... some of it
quite useful. Hopefully what I may have to offer would be a useful
addition.

My current setup: Simple 55 gallon freshwater tank with plants and
fish. Plants usually the garden variety cheapo pond plants... hornwort
and ancharis. Fish currently a medium sized Oscar, a small Jack
Dempsey and a big old Australian Red Claw Crayfish. The bottom is
covered with about 2-3 inches of cheap home center gravel (about 1/4"
- 1/2" pieces.. needed serious rinsing before putting in the tank). I
have a Fluval filter pump used primarily to move the water around. In
the winter I use a heater, and without the circulation, the water
tends to stratify with the top being very warm and the bottom being
icy cold. Other than the pump and heater (used in winter), and a
thermometer, there is no other equipment in the tank. No bubblers, no
filters, no chemicals, no fertilizers, no nothing. And yes, you read
that right, no bubblers whatsoever.

And keep in mind that my comments are limited to a plant AND fish
setup. NOT plants only or fish only.


Plants
=================================================
Boy did I have trouble getting plants to grow strongly. I think I can
save a few people a lot of trouble if I sum up the solution in one
word... LIGHT. By far the most important thing is enough light. Plants
really didn't take off until I bought a 4 lamp, high output T-5
fluorescent fixture. Truth be told though, that might have been a
little *too* much light.


Light
=================================================
Surprisingly, it would seem that there is such a thing as too much
light. And it would seem that different plants do better at different
light levels (and at different times of the year maybe). One simple
way to vary light intensity is to raise the fixture above the tank.
The greater the distance the light is from the top of the tank, the
less intense the light from the plant's perspective.

Currently I have a hanging chain setup that holds my fixture approx
15" above the tank. Lowering the fixture down to the top of the tank
cause the plants to push down in the tank and actually seem to hinder
their growth. Actually, I'm thinking about raising it even further
just to see what the effects would be.


C02
=================================================
Yes, plants need carbon dioxide to grow. That said, plants can only
use so much and fish are big producers of C02. I did the whole C02
injection thing... using a really cool "yeast in 2-liter pop bottles"
setup. The C02 would come in through a fine airstone and get blasted
around a diffuser. Quite a goovy setup I put together. Friends would
stare in awe at my tank as I explained how the C02 was generated, then
diffused into the water... little bubbles swirling around.

The bad news is that at least in my experience... IT WAS ALL FOR
NOTHING. Didn't do a damn thing as far as I could tell. What did
really have an impact on plant growth? LIGHT. The past year or so my
tank has had no outside sources of C02 and the plants are booming.


Algae
=================================================
I've come up with some ideas about algae and plants, and while my
notions suit me thus far, and seem to match my observations, you must
keep in mind that I'm no plant expert and I may have no idea what I'm
talking about.

That said... think of algae as a lower plant. Lower as in more
primitive. Think of regular aquarium plants as higher plants... more
evolved. Futher, think of the higher plants as better able to extract
nutrients out of the water. Given a limited amount of nutrients in the
water, the higher plants will get most of the nutrients and the algae
might get a few leftover scraps.

Note the key phrase above is "limited amount of nutrients". Let's
suppose you were to increase the amount of nutrients in the water.
What would happen? Well the higher plants would consume as much as
they could. (And keep in mind that since both light and C02 are also
required for plant growth, any deficiency in either would limit how
much nutrients the plants could use.) Whatever nutrients are not
consumed by the higher plants, the lower plants (algae) are free to
make use of.

So in a tank with excess nutrients, both the plants and the algae are
growing. Question, where does algae grow? Answer, on everything...
including your higher plants. As the algae grows as a thin furry film
on your higher plants, it hampers the ability of those higher plants
to grow... which means they grow less... which means they consume less
nutrients... which means there are more nutrients left over for
algae... which means more algae grows on your plants... and so on...
and so forth. Before you know it, you're not growing plants... you're
growing algae.

So, where do these nutrients come from? Well, mostly from fish poo.
You feed the fish, then shortly thereafter they squeeze out some
nutrients. The more you feed the fish, the more nutrients they poop.
My Oscar is always hungry. I could feed him his fill and an hour later
he acts like he's half starved. Truth be told, I LIKE to feed him. I
like to see him chase after feeders or attack earthworms. It's pretty
cool actually. And as he eats, he poops... and that can be a problem.
Think of fish poop as algae food. Have an algae problem? Cut back on
the fish feeding.


Fish feeding
=================================================
Everyone knows you have to feed your fish every day. And everyone
knows that if you leave town for a few days you have to make sure that
someone comes over to feed your fish or they might die, right?
Hogwash. Pure, unadulterated bunk.

I'll let you in on a secret... I'm lazy. I can be neglectful. There
have been times I have have gone WEEKS without feeding my fish. I
don't know what they lived on... but they lived on something... well,
let's at least say they lived. I do know my crayfish was making a good
meal of the anacharis in those lean times. He would eat the stems and
leave leaves littered about. Both my fish and the crayfish will
happily eat frozen corn when they're hungry. I told the girl at the
fish store that I have an Oscar that eats corn and she thought both me
and my fish were nuts. Never heard of such a thing. I'm sure if Oscar
had a choice between a juicy worm or some corn, he'd eat the worm...
then eat the corn later ;-)

The whole point is this, I think aquarium fish are like a lot of
people... way overfed. And like people, it's only when we get a little
hungry that we will eat whatever is available. And like many people,
we could probably do with a lot less food... and maybe even be better
off for it.


Disease
=================================================
Never had to deal with a fish disease. I'm naive enough to think I
must be doing something right. Or maybe just lucky or have unwittingly
stuck to hardy fish.


Oxygen/air
=================================================
Everyone knows you need to have a bubbler in your tank or your fish
will die, right? More bunk I think. I think it would be more useful to
say that fish need oxygen. If there are no plants in the water I
suppose the fish demand for oxygen might outpace whatever oxygen gets
into the water. Plants respirate mostly the opposite of fish. Fish
take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. Plants for the most part do
the opposite. Plants use carbon dioxide and expel oxygen. Nice little
symbiotic relationship between the fish and the plants. Each uses what
the other gives off. And it works pretty well if everything is in
balance.

How do you know if your fish are not getting enough oxygen? Pretty
much the same way you'd know a human isn't getting enough oxygen...
heavy breathing. If a fish is strongly sucking in water and his gills
are opening widely and strongly... he is "out of breath" so to speak.
Most likely the oxygen content in the water is too low. In a tank with
large amounts of growing plants, more than enough oxygen is present in
the water. My tank hasn't had a bubbler for an awfully long time and
the fish are breathing very very easily.


Chemicals/fertilizers
=================================================
When I go to the fish store I see a lot of little bottles...
treatments, supplements, conditioners, fertilizers, softeners,
hardeners, thinners, waxers, buffers, uppers, downers and other
assorted indespensible shtuff. I have to admit, I did buy a bottle of
plant food once that was supposed to promote vigorous plant growth by
supplying various trace elements and micro-nutrients. Too bad it
didn't contain a really bright light too... at least then it would
have been useful to me ;-)

Now surely, for many, all those little bottles and tablets serve a
useful purpose. But I have another idea. I have this fanciful notion
that Mother Nature has a way of providing for all those trace elements
and micro-nutrients. Feed a little bit of worm to a fish, and he poops
out a little bit of micro-nutrients in addition to all those macro-
nutrients. Futher, keep a clean healthy tank, and you'll probably have
clean healthy fish.


Cleaning
=================================================
Maybe once a week I take a green scrubby pad and clean the front and
sides of the tank to remove the little bit of algae that accumulates.
I leave the algae alone on the back. The back of my tank is painted
black on the outside so I have no cool graphics that need to be seen.

I use a nifty siphon/hose setup to suck water out of the tank, then
add water straight from a laundry tub faucet. I use one of those
gravel sweeper things on the end of a hose. Sucks up debris without
sucking up gravel... works like a charm. Normal weekly water change
would be drain about 1/5 of the water and refil. I'm convinced that
regular water changes is one of the best things you can do for the
health and cleanliness of your tank.

Luckily, I picked a good spot for the tank the first time. Sort of
near a laundry tub that's lower than than the tank and NOT on carpet.
No way I would EVER have a 55gal tank sitting in my living room on
carpet. To me it's a horrifying thought. If I dig into the tank, I
like to dig into it... and water ends up on the floor. If I spill or
drip water, I either just leave it, or mop it up. What would I have to
go through on carpet? And the sipon/filler thing is a blessing. Don't
even want to think about carrying buckets back and forth.

I've also gotten into the habit of smelling the tank. Hold your face
near the top of the water and take a good whiff. When the tank is
clean and healthy and has algae under control, there is practically no
smell. If there is an excess of waste, rot or algae, there is a
particular "fishtank" smell. Hard to describe beyond that.


Summary of important points
=================================================
* The most important thing needed for vigorous plant growth is plenty
of light (but have a mechanism to vary the intensity).

* Cut back on fish feeding to control algae growth. Cut back on the
number of fish if necessary.

* Bubblers are not needed if plants produce enough oxygen to satify
fish needs.

* Smell your tank as an indication of health and perform weekly 20%
water changes.



Well, that's all I can think of for now. Hopefully someone will find
it useful and of course I'd welcome coments.

[Gill Passman]

Joe Barta wrote:
> Thought I'd take the time to jot down a few thoughts, observations,
> experiences and conclusions for posterity. In the last couple years
> I've learned a lot about my aquarium. I suppose I'm still learning,
> and by no means an expert, so feel free to ignore my ramblings or
> point out where I'm hopelessly clueless.
>
> In those last couple years I did a lot of searching and reading of the
> web and these newsgroups to either look for a solution to a problem or
> just for general knowledge. I found a lot of information... some of it
> quite useful. Hopefully what I may have to offer would be a useful
> addition.
>
> My current setup: Simple 55 gallon freshwater tank with plants and
> fish. Plants usually the garden variety cheapo pond plants... hornwort
> and ancharis. Fish currently a medium sized Oscar, a small Jack
> Dempsey and a big old Australian Red Claw Crayfish. The bottom is
> covered with about 2-3 inches of cheap home center gravel (about 1/4"
> - 1/2" pieces.. needed serious rinsing before putting in the tank). I
> have a Fluval filter pump used primarily to move the water around. In
> the winter I use a heater, and without the circulation, the water
> tends to stratify with the top being very warm and the bottom being
> icy cold. Other than the pump and heater (used in winter), and a
> thermometer, there is no other equipment in the tank. No bubblers, no
> filters, no chemicals, no fertilizers, no nothing. And yes, you read
> that right, no bubblers whatsoever.
>
> And keep in mind that my comments are limited to a plant AND fish
> setup. NOT plants only or fish only.
>
>
> Plants
> =================================================
> Boy did I have trouble getting plants to grow strongly. I think I can
> save a few people a lot of trouble if I sum up the solution in one
> word... LIGHT. By far the most important thing is enough light. Plants
> really didn't take off until I bought a 4 lamp, high output T-5
> fluorescent fixture. Truth be told though, that might have been a
> little *too* much light.
>
>
> Light
> =================================================
> Surprisingly, it would seem that there is such a thing as too much
> light. And it would seem that different plants do better at different
> light levels (and at different times of the year maybe). One simple
> way to vary light intensity is to raise the fixture above the tank.
> The greater the distance the light is from the top of the tank, the
> less intense the light from the plant's perspective.
>
> Currently I have a hanging chain setup that holds my fixture approx
> 15" above the tank. Lowering the fixture down to the top of the tank
> cause the plants to push down in the tank and actually seem to hinder
> their growth. Actually, I'm thinking about raising it even further
> just to see what the effects would be.
>
>
> C02
> =================================================
> Yes, plants need carbon dioxide to grow. That said, plants can only
> use so much and fish are big producers of C02. I did the whole C02
> injection thing... using a really cool "yeast in 2-liter pop bottles"
> setup. The C02 would come in through a fine airstone and get blasted
> around a diffuser. Quite a goovy setup I put together. Friends would
> stare in awe at my tank as I explained how the C02 was generated, then
> diffused into the water... little bubbles swirling around.
>
> The bad news is that at least in my experience... IT WAS ALL FOR
> NOTHING. Didn't do a damn thing as far as I could tell. What did
> really have an impact on plant growth? LIGHT. The past year or so my
> tank has had no outside sources of C02 and the plants are booming.
>
>
> Algae
> =================================================
> I've come up with some ideas about algae and plants, and while my
> notions suit me thus far, and seem to match my observations, you must
> keep in mind that I'm no plant expert and I may have no idea what I'm
> talking about.
>
> That said... think of algae as a lower plant. Lower as in more
> primitive. Think of regular aquarium plants as higher plants... more
> evolved. Futher, think of the higher plants as better able to extract
> nutrients out of the water. Given a limited amount of nutrients in the
> water, the higher plants will get most of the nutrients and the algae
> might get a few leftover scraps.
>
> Note the key phrase above is "limited amount of nutrients". Let's
> suppose you were to increase the amount of nutrients in the water.
> What would happen? Well the higher plants would consume as much as
> they could. (And keep in mind that since both light and C02 are also
> required for plant growth, any deficiency in either would limit how
> much nutrients the plants could use.) Whatever nutrients are not
> consumed by the higher plants, the lower plants (algae) are free to
> make use of.
>
> So in a tank with excess nutrients, both the plants and the algae are
> growing. Question, where does algae grow? Answer, on everything...
> including your higher plants. As the algae grows as a thin furry film
> on your higher plants, it hampers the ability of those higher plants
> to grow... which means they grow less... which means they consume less
> nutrients... which means there are more nutrients left over for
> algae... which means more algae grows on your plants... and so on...
> and so forth. Before you know it, you're not growing plants... you're
> growing algae.
>
> So, where do these nutrients come from? Well, mostly from fish poo.
> You feed the fish, then shortly thereafter they squeeze out some
> nutrients. The more you feed the fish, the more nutrients they poop.
> My Oscar is always hungry. I could feed him his fill and an hour later
> he acts like he's half starved. Truth be told, I LIKE to feed him. I
> like to see him chase after feeders or attack earthworms. It's pretty
> cool actually. And as he eats, he poops... and that can be a problem.
> Think of fish poop as algae food. Have an algae problem? Cut back on
> the fish feeding.
>
>
> Fish feeding
> =================================================
> Everyone knows you have to feed your fish every day. And everyone
> knows that if you leave town for a few days you have to make sure that
> someone comes over to feed your fish or they might die, right?
> Hogwash. Pure, unadulterated bunk.
>
> I'll let you in on a secret... I'm lazy. I can be neglectful. There
> have been times I have have gone WEEKS without feeding my fish. I
> don't know what they lived on... but they lived on something... well,
> let's at least say they lived. I do know my crayfish was making a good
> meal of the anacharis in those lean times. He would eat the stems and
> leave leaves littered about. Both my fish and the crayfish will
> happily eat frozen corn when they're hungry. I told the girl at the
> fish store that I have an Oscar that eats corn and she thought both me
> and my fish were nuts. Never heard of such a thing. I'm sure if Oscar
> had a choice between a juicy worm or some corn, he'd eat the worm...
> then eat the corn later ;-)
>
> The whole point is this, I think aquarium fish are like a lot of
> people... way overfed. And like people, it's only when we get a little
> hungry that we will eat whatever is available. And like many people,
> we could probably do with a lot less food... and maybe even be better
> off for it.
>
>
> Disease
> =================================================
> Never had to deal with a fish disease. I'm naive enough to think I
> must be doing something right. Or maybe just lucky or have unwittingly
> stuck to hardy fish.
>
>
> Oxygen/air
> =================================================
> Everyone knows you need to have a bubbler in your tank or your fish
> will die, right? More bunk I think. I think it would be more useful to
> say that fish need oxygen. If there are no plants in the water I
> suppose the fish demand for oxygen might outpace whatever oxygen gets
> into the water. Plants respirate mostly the opposite of fish. Fish
> take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. Plants for the most part do
> the opposite. Plants use carbon dioxide and expel oxygen. Nice little
> symbiotic relationship between the fish and the plants. Each uses what
> the other gives off. And it works pretty well if everything is in
> balance.
>
> How do you know if your fish are not getting enough oxygen? Pretty
> much the same way you'd know a human isn't getting enough oxygen...
> heavy breathing. If a fish is strongly sucking in water and his gills
> are opening widely and strongly... he is "out of breath" so to speak.
> Most likely the oxygen content in the water is too low. In a tank with
> large amounts of growing plants, more than enough oxygen is present in
> the water. My tank hasn't had a bubbler for an awfully long time and
> the fish are breathing very very easily.
>
>
> Chemicals/fertilizers
> =================================================
> When I go to the fish store I see a lot of little bottles...
> treatments, supplements, conditioners, fertilizers, softeners,
> hardeners, thinners, waxers, buffers, uppers, downers and other
> assorted indespensible shtuff. I have to admit, I did buy a bottle of
> plant food once that was supposed to promote vigorous plant growth by
> supplying various trace elements and micro-nutrients. Too bad it
> didn't contain a really bright light too... at least then it would
> have been useful to me ;-)
>
> Now surely, for many, all those little bottles and tablets serve a
> useful purpose. But I have another idea. I have this fanciful notion
> that Mother Nature has a way of providing for all those trace elements
> and micro-nutrients. Feed a little bit of worm to a fish, and he poops
> out a little bit of micro-nutrients in addition to all those macro-
> nutrients. Futher, keep a clean healthy tank, and you'll probably have
> clean healthy fish.
>
>
> Cleaning
> =================================================
> Maybe once a week I take a green scrubby pad and clean the front and
> sides of the tank to remove the little bit of algae that accumulates.
> I leave the algae alone on the back. The back of my tank is painted
> black on the outside so I have no cool graphics that need to be seen.
>
> I use a nifty siphon/hose setup to suck water out of the tank, then
> add water straight from a laundry tub faucet. I use one of those
> gravel sweeper things on the end of a hose. Sucks up debris without
> sucking up gravel... works like a charm. Normal weekly water change
> would be drain about 1/5 of the water and refil. I'm convinced that
> regular water changes is one of the best things you can do for the
> health and cleanliness of your tank.
>
> Luckily, I picked a good spot for the tank the first time. Sort of
> near a laundry tub that's lower than than the tank and NOT on carpet.
> No way I would EVER have a 55gal tank sitting in my living room on
> carpet. To me it's a horrifying thought. If I dig into the tank, I
> like to dig into it... and water ends up on the floor. If I spill or
> drip water, I either just leave it, or mop it up. What would I have to
> go through on carpet? And the sipon/filler thing is a blessing. Don't
> even want to think about carrying buckets back and forth.
>
> I've also gotten into the habit of smelling the tank. Hold your face
> near the top of the water and take a good whiff. When the tank is
> clean and healthy and has algae under control, there is practically no
> smell. If there is an excess of waste, rot or algae, there is a
> particular "fishtank" smell. Hard to describe beyond that.
>
>
> Summary of important points
> =================================================
> * The most important thing needed for vigorous plant growth is plenty
> of light (but have a mechanism to vary the intensity).
>
> * Cut back on fish feeding to control algae growth. Cut back on the
> number of fish if necessary.
>
> * Bubblers are not needed if plants produce enough oxygen to satify
> fish needs.
>
> * Smell your tank as an indication of health and perform weekly 20%
> water changes.
>
>
>
> Well, that's all I can think of for now. Hopefully someone will find
> it useful and of course I'd welcome coments.

That was quite a post :-)

It'll take a while to digest - will get back to you tomorrow with any
comments....

Gill

[fish lover]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:38:39 GMT, Joe Barta > wrote:
Hmmm... Interesting post.

You do have some valid points. I like to do a 30% water change every 3
to 4 days. I have the discus and they kind of demand more water change
as far as I know.

I have a timer for my boubbler. It only turn on at night every other
hour, when the plants are not producing oxygen.

I also have a heater all year around because the discus require about
84 Fto 86 F

>Thought I'd take the time to jot down a few thoughts, observations,
>experiences and conclusions for posterity. In the last couple years
>I've learned a lot about my aquarium. I suppose I'm still learning,
>and by no means an expert, so feel free to ignore my ramblings or
>point out where I'm hopelessly clueless.
>
>In those last couple years I did a lot of searching and reading of the
>web and these newsgroups to either look for a solution to a problem or
>just for general knowledge. I found a lot of information... some of it
>quite useful. Hopefully what I may have to offer would be a useful
>addition.
>
>My current setup: Simple 55 gallon freshwater tank with plants and
>fish. Plants usually the garden variety cheapo pond plants... hornwort
>and ancharis. Fish currently a medium sized Oscar, a small Jack
>Dempsey and a big old Australian Red Claw Crayfish. The bottom is
>covered with about 2-3 inches of cheap home center gravel (about 1/4"
>- 1/2" pieces.. needed serious rinsing before putting in the tank). I
>have a Fluval filter pump used primarily to move the water around. In
>the winter I use a heater, and without the circulation, the water
>tends to stratify with the top being very warm and the bottom being
>icy cold. Other than the pump and heater (used in winter), and a
>thermometer, there is no other equipment in the tank. No bubblers, no
>filters, no chemicals, no fertilizers, no nothing. And yes, you read
>that right, no bubblers whatsoever.
>
>And keep in mind that my comments are limited to a plant AND fish
>setup. NOT plants only or fish only.
>
>
>Plants
>=================================================
>Boy did I have trouble getting plants to grow strongly. I think I can
>save a few people a lot of trouble if I sum up the solution in one
>word... LIGHT. By far the most important thing is enough light. Plants
>really didn't take off until I bought a 4 lamp, high output T-5
>fluorescent fixture. Truth be told though, that might have been a
>little *too* much light.
>
>
>Light
>=================================================
>Surprisingly, it would seem that there is such a thing as too much
>light. And it would seem that different plants do better at different
>light levels (and at different times of the year maybe). One simple
>way to vary light intensity is to raise the fixture above the tank.
>The greater the distance the light is from the top of the tank, the
>less intense the light from the plant's perspective.
>
>Currently I have a hanging chain setup that holds my fixture approx
>15" above the tank. Lowering the fixture down to the top of the tank
>cause the plants to push down in the tank and actually seem to hinder
>their growth. Actually, I'm thinking about raising it even further
>just to see what the effects would be.
>
>
>C02
>=================================================
>Yes, plants need carbon dioxide to grow. That said, plants can only
>use so much and fish are big producers of C02. I did the whole C02
>injection thing... using a really cool "yeast in 2-liter pop bottles"
>setup. The C02 would come in through a fine airstone and get blasted
>around a diffuser. Quite a goovy setup I put together. Friends would
>stare in awe at my tank as I explained how the C02 was generated, then
>diffused into the water... little bubbles swirling around.
>
>The bad news is that at least in my experience... IT WAS ALL FOR
>NOTHING. Didn't do a damn thing as far as I could tell. What did
>really have an impact on plant growth? LIGHT. The past year or so my
>tank has had no outside sources of C02 and the plants are booming.
>
>
>Algae
>=================================================
>I've come up with some ideas about algae and plants, and while my
>notions suit me thus far, and seem to match my observations, you must
>keep in mind that I'm no plant expert and I may have no idea what I'm
>talking about.
>
>That said... think of algae as a lower plant. Lower as in more
>primitive. Think of regular aquarium plants as higher plants... more
>evolved. Futher, think of the higher plants as better able to extract
>nutrients out of the water. Given a limited amount of nutrients in the
>water, the higher plants will get most of the nutrients and the algae
>might get a few leftover scraps.
>
>Note the key phrase above is "limited amount of nutrients". Let's
>suppose you were to increase the amount of nutrients in the water.
>What would happen? Well the higher plants would consume as much as
>they could. (And keep in mind that since both light and C02 are also
>required for plant growth, any deficiency in either would limit how
>much nutrients the plants could use.) Whatever nutrients are not
>consumed by the higher plants, the lower plants (algae) are free to
>make use of.
>
>So in a tank with excess nutrients, both the plants and the algae are
>growing. Question, where does algae grow? Answer, on everything...
>including your higher plants. As the algae grows as a thin furry film
>on your higher plants, it hampers the ability of those higher plants
>to grow... which means they grow less... which means they consume less
>nutrients... which means there are more nutrients left over for
>algae... which means more algae grows on your plants... and so on...
>and so forth. Before you know it, you're not growing plants... you're
>growing algae.
>
>So, where do these nutrients come from? Well, mostly from fish poo.
>You feed the fish, then shortly thereafter they squeeze out some
>nutrients. The more you feed the fish, the more nutrients they poop.
>My Oscar is always hungry. I could feed him his fill and an hour later
>he acts like he's half starved. Truth be told, I LIKE to feed him. I
>like to see him chase after feeders or attack earthworms. It's pretty
>cool actually. And as he eats, he poops... and that can be a problem.
>Think of fish poop as algae food. Have an algae problem? Cut back on
>the fish feeding.
>
>
>Fish feeding
>=================================================
>Everyone knows you have to feed your fish every day. And everyone
>knows that if you leave town for a few days you have to make sure that
>someone comes over to feed your fish or they might die, right?
>Hogwash. Pure, unadulterated bunk.
>
>I'll let you in on a secret... I'm lazy. I can be neglectful. There
>have been times I have have gone WEEKS without feeding my fish. I
>don't know what they lived on... but they lived on something... well,
>let's at least say they lived. I do know my crayfish was making a good
>meal of the anacharis in those lean times. He would eat the stems and
>leave leaves littered about. Both my fish and the crayfish will
>happily eat frozen corn when they're hungry. I told the girl at the
>fish store that I have an Oscar that eats corn and she thought both me
>and my fish were nuts. Never heard of such a thing. I'm sure if Oscar
>had a choice between a juicy worm or some corn, he'd eat the worm...
>then eat the corn later ;-)
>
>The whole point is this, I think aquarium fish are like a lot of
>people... way overfed. And like people, it's only when we get a little
>hungry that we will eat whatever is available. And like many people,
>we could probably do with a lot less food... and maybe even be better
>off for it.
>
>
>Disease
>=================================================
>Never had to deal with a fish disease. I'm naive enough to think I
>must be doing something right. Or maybe just lucky or have unwittingly
>stuck to hardy fish.
>
>
>Oxygen/air
>=================================================
>Everyone knows you need to have a bubbler in your tank or your fish
>will die, right? More bunk I think. I think it would be more useful to
>say that fish need oxygen. If there are no plants in the water I
>suppose the fish demand for oxygen might outpace whatever oxygen gets
>into the water. Plants respirate mostly the opposite of fish. Fish
>take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. Plants for the most part do
>the opposite. Plants use carbon dioxide and expel oxygen. Nice little
>symbiotic relationship between the fish and the plants. Each uses what
>the other gives off. And it works pretty well if everything is in
>balance.
>
>How do you know if your fish are not getting enough oxygen? Pretty
>much the same way you'd know a human isn't getting enough oxygen...
>heavy breathing. If a fish is strongly sucking in water and his gills
>are opening widely and strongly... he is "out of breath" so to speak.
>Most likely the oxygen content in the water is too low. In a tank with
>large amounts of growing plants, more than enough oxygen is present in
>the water. My tank hasn't had a bubbler for an awfully long time and
>the fish are breathing very very easily.
>
>
>Chemicals/fertilizers
>=================================================
>When I go to the fish store I see a lot of little bottles...
>treatments, supplements, conditioners, fertilizers, softeners,
>hardeners, thinners, waxers, buffers, uppers, downers and other
>assorted indespensible shtuff. I have to admit, I did buy a bottle of
>plant food once that was supposed to promote vigorous plant growth by
>supplying various trace elements and micro-nutrients. Too bad it
>didn't contain a really bright light too... at least then it would
>have been useful to me ;-)
>
>Now surely, for many, all those little bottles and tablets serve a
>useful purpose. But I have another idea. I have this fanciful notion
>that Mother Nature has a way of providing for all those trace elements
>and micro-nutrients. Feed a little bit of worm to a fish, and he poops
>out a little bit of micro-nutrients in addition to all those macro-
>nutrients. Futher, keep a clean healthy tank, and you'll probably have
>clean healthy fish.
>
>
>Cleaning
>=================================================
>Maybe once a week I take a green scrubby pad and clean the front and
>sides of the tank to remove the little bit of algae that accumulates.
>I leave the algae alone on the back. The back of my tank is painted
>black on the outside so I have no cool graphics that need to be seen.
>
>I use a nifty siphon/hose setup to suck water out of the tank, then
>add water straight from a laundry tub faucet. I use one of those
>gravel sweeper things on the end of a hose. Sucks up debris without
>sucking up gravel... works like a charm. Normal weekly water change
>would be drain about 1/5 of the water and refil. I'm convinced that
>regular water changes is one of the best things you can do for the
>health and cleanliness of your tank.
>
>Luckily, I picked a good spot for the tank the first time. Sort of
>near a laundry tub that's lower than than the tank and NOT on carpet.
>No way I would EVER have a 55gal tank sitting in my living room on
>carpet. To me it's a horrifying thought. If I dig into the tank, I
>like to dig into it... and water ends up on the floor. If I spill or
>drip water, I either just leave it, or mop it up. What would I have to
>go through on carpet? And the sipon/filler thing is a blessing. Don't
>even want to think about carrying buckets back and forth.
>
>I've also gotten into the habit of smelling the tank. Hold your face
>near the top of the water and take a good whiff. When the tank is
>clean and healthy and has algae under control, there is practically no
>smell. If there is an excess of waste, rot or algae, there is a
>particular "fishtank" smell. Hard to describe beyond that.
>
>
>Summary of important points
>=================================================
>* The most important thing needed for vigorous plant growth is plenty
>of light (but have a mechanism to vary the intensity).
>
>* Cut back on fish feeding to control algae growth. Cut back on the
>number of fish if necessary.
>
>* Bubblers are not needed if plants produce enough oxygen to satify
>fish needs.
>
>* Smell your tank as an indication of health and perform weekly 20%
>water changes.
>
>
>
>Well, that's all I can think of for now. Hopefully someone will find
>it useful and of course I'd welcome coments.

[NetMax]

"Joe Barta" > wrote in message
.. .
> Thought I'd take the time to jot down a few thoughts, observations,
> experiences and conclusions for posterity. In the last couple years
> I've learned a lot about my aquarium. I suppose I'm still learning,
> and by no means an expert, so feel free to ignore my ramblings or
> point out where I'm hopelessly clueless.

I hope you're open to some comments, though they might be off-track as
well ;~)

> In those last couple years I did a lot of searching and reading of the
> web and these newsgroups to either look for a solution to a problem or
> just for general knowledge. I found a lot of information... some of it
> quite useful. Hopefully what I may have to offer would be a useful
> addition.
>
> My current setup: Simple 55 gallon freshwater tank with plants and
> fish. Plants usually the garden variety cheapo pond plants... hornwort
> and ancharis. Fish currently a medium sized Oscar, a small Jack
> Dempsey and a big old Australian Red Claw Crayfish. The bottom is
> covered with about 2-3 inches of cheap home center gravel (about 1/4"
> - 1/2" pieces.. needed serious rinsing before putting in the tank). I
> have a Fluval filter pump used primarily to move the water around. In
> the winter I use a heater, and without the circulation, the water
> tends to stratify with the top being very warm and the bottom being
> icy cold. Other than the pump and heater (used in winter), and a
> thermometer, there is no other equipment in the tank. No bubblers, no
> filters, no chemicals, no fertilizers, no nothing. And yes, you read
> that right, no bubblers whatsoever.

Sounds like a fairly typical sparse set-up suitable for housing large
cichlids. I haven't used a bubbler in over 20 years so that's no
surprise. I don't use chemicals or fertilizers at home, and only when
neccessary elsewhere. For filtration, you used the bio-film which coats
all of the inside of an aquarium, and plants. This may not be very
efficient, but depending on the bioload, entirely possible to do with no
obvious bad results. I'll let you continue :o).

> And keep in mind that my comments are limited to a plant AND fish
> setup. NOT plants only or fish only.
>
>
> Plants
> =================================================
> Boy did I have trouble getting plants to grow strongly. I think I can
> save a few people a lot of trouble if I sum up the solution in one
> word... LIGHT. By far the most important thing is enough light. Plants
> really didn't take off until I bought a 4 lamp, high output T-5
> fluorescent fixture. Truth be told though, that might have been a
> little *too* much light.

lol, light tends to be a big constraint to growth, though it is possible
to do it in low light with the right plants.

> Light
> =================================================
> Surprisingly, it would seem that there is such a thing as too much
> light. And it would seem that different plants do better at different
> light levels (and at different times of the year maybe). One simple
> way to vary light intensity is to raise the fixture above the tank.
> The greater the distance the light is from the top of the tank, the
> less intense the light from the plant's perspective.
>
> Currently I have a hanging chain setup that holds my fixture approx
> 15" above the tank. Lowering the fixture down to the top of the tank
> cause the plants to push down in the tank and actually seem to hinder
> their growth. Actually, I'm thinking about raising it even further
> just to see what the effects would be.

Plants have a 'footprint'. The nutrients they best use are different.
The light levels they grow on are slightly different. This makes sense
from an evolutionary perspective. If all plants needed the same spectrum
or intensity, then they would all have to grow at the same depth and
latitude. If they all consumed the exact nutrient mix, they would be at
greater risk of extinction. Diversity rules in nature.

> C02
> =================================================
> Yes, plants need carbon dioxide to grow. That said, plants can only
> use so much and fish are big producers of C02. I did the whole C02
> injection thing... using a really cool "yeast in 2-liter pop bottles"
> setup. The C02 would come in through a fine airstone and get blasted
> around a diffuser. Quite a goovy setup I put together. Friends would
> stare in awe at my tank as I explained how the C02 was generated, then
> diffused into the water... little bubbles swirling around.
>
> The bad news is that at least in my experience... IT WAS ALL FOR
> NOTHING. Didn't do a damn thing as far as I could tell. What did
> really have an impact on plant growth? LIGHT. The past year or so my
> tank has had no outside sources of C02 and the plants are booming.

Plants grow until they hit a constraint, and with diversity, that
constraint will be variable (ie: not enough iron for one, not enought
light for another). Light & CO2 supercharges their ability (in different
ways) to get at smaller concentrations of wanted nutrients, and start to
use other nutrients to get around primary constraints, but it only goes
so far.

> Algae
> =================================================
> I've come up with some ideas about algae and plants, and while my
> notions suit me thus far, and seem to match my observations, you must
> keep in mind that I'm no plant expert and I may have no idea what I'm
> talking about.
>
> That said... think of algae as a lower plant. Lower as in more
> primitive. Think of regular aquarium plants as higher plants... more
> evolved. Futher, think of the higher plants as better able to extract
> nutrients out of the water. Given a limited amount of nutrients in the
> water, the higher plants will get most of the nutrients and the algae
> might get a few leftover scraps.
>
> Note the key phrase above is "limited amount of nutrients". Let's
> suppose you were to increase the amount of nutrients in the water.
> What would happen? Well the higher plants would consume as much as
> they could. (And keep in mind that since both light and C02 are also
> required for plant growth, any deficiency in either would limit how
> much nutrients the plants could use.) Whatever nutrients are not
> consumed by the higher plants, the lower plants (algae) are free to
> make use of.
>
> So in a tank with excess nutrients, both the plants and the algae are
> growing. Question, where does algae grow? Answer, on everything...
> including your higher plants. As the algae grows as a thin furry film
> on your higher plants, it hampers the ability of those higher plants
> to grow... which means they grow less... which means they consume less
> nutrients... which means there are more nutrients left over for
> algae... which means more algae grows on your plants... and so on...
> and so forth. Before you know it, you're not growing plants... you're
> growing algae.
>
> So, where do these nutrients come from? Well, mostly from fish poo.
> You feed the fish, then shortly thereafter they squeeze out some
> nutrients. The more you feed the fish, the more nutrients they poop.
> My Oscar is always hungry. I could feed him his fill and an hour later
> he acts like he's half starved. Truth be told, I LIKE to feed him. I
> like to see him chase after feeders or attack earthworms. It's pretty
> cool actually. And as he eats, he poops... and that can be a problem.
> Think of fish poop as algae food. Have an algae problem? Cut back on
> the fish feeding.

Seems clear to me. Also along the lower order/higher order concept, I
used to describe algae as being the mobile hot dog vendor, quick & agile
to pick up any nutrient spikes, and plants are like a factory, slower to
start up but more efficient. If your water experiences nothing but well
spaced nutrient spikes, algae will suck them out before the plant
factories even get warmed up ;~).

> Fish feeding
> =================================================
> Everyone knows you have to feed your fish every day. And everyone
> knows that if you leave town for a few days you have to make sure that
> someone comes over to feed your fish or they might die, right?
> Hogwash. Pure, unadulterated bunk.
>
> I'll let you in on a secret... I'm lazy. I can be neglectful. There
> have been times I have have gone WEEKS without feeding my fish. I
> don't know what they lived on... but they lived on something... well,
> let's at least say they lived. I do know my crayfish was making a good
> meal of the anacharis in those lean times. He would eat the stems and
> leave leaves littered about. Both my fish and the crayfish will
> happily eat frozen corn when they're hungry. I told the girl at the
> fish store that I have an Oscar that eats corn and she thought both me
> and my fish were nuts. Never heard of such a thing. I'm sure if Oscar
> had a choice between a juicy worm or some corn, he'd eat the worm...
> then eat the corn later ;-)

Regarding the interval between feedings, for large fish, this can be much
longer than with smaller fish, and they will slow their metabolism down
considerably to compensate for their caloric intake reduction. How long
is practical varies on many factors including fish type and size. How
long is acceptable depends on more subjective ideals. I wouldn't be
surprised if your Oscar ate shoe leather is it was starved long enough.

> The whole point is this, I think aquarium fish are like a lot of
> people... way overfed. And like people, it's only when we get a little
> hungry that we will eat whatever is available. And like many people,
> we could probably do with a lot less food... and maybe even be better
> off for it.

Fish don't expend tremendous amount of energy on locomotion (or even just
standing up) as humans do, nor do they need to keep their blood heated,
so the part I will surely agree with is that people have poor eating
habits. jmo

> Disease
> =================================================
> Never had to deal with a fish disease. I'm naive enough to think I
> must be doing something right. Or maybe just lucky or have unwittingly
> stuck to hardy fish.

An aquarium is essentially a closed loop in regards to aquatic pathogens.
The fish are completely isolated by a barrier of air. Unless they
brought it with them, they can't really get 'sick' unless we are talking
about organ breakdown due to old age.

> Oxygen/air
> =================================================
> Everyone knows you need to have a bubbler in your tank or your fish
> will die, right? More bunk I think. I think it would be more useful to
> say that fish need oxygen. If there are no plants in the water I
> suppose the fish demand for oxygen might outpace whatever oxygen gets
> into the water. Plants respirate mostly the opposite of fish. Fish
> take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. Plants for the most part do
> the opposite. Plants use carbon dioxide and expel oxygen. Nice little
> symbiotic relationship between the fish and the plants. Each uses what
> the other gives off. And it works pretty well if everything is in
> balance.
>
> How do you know if your fish are not getting enough oxygen? Pretty
> much the same way you'd know a human isn't getting enough oxygen...
> heavy breathing. If a fish is strongly sucking in water and his gills
> are opening widely and strongly... he is "out of breath" so to speak.
> Most likely the oxygen content in the water is too low. In a tank with
> large amounts of growing plants, more than enough oxygen is present in
> the water. My tank hasn't had a bubbler for an awfully long time and
> the fish are breathing very very easily.

Your pump circulating the water provided as much or more re-oxygenation
than a bubbler would.

> Chemicals/fertilizers
> =================================================
> When I go to the fish store I see a lot of little bottles...
> treatments, supplements, conditioners, fertilizers, softeners,
> hardeners, thinners, waxers, buffers, uppers, downers and other
> assorted indespensible shtuff. I have to admit, I did buy a bottle of
> plant food once that was supposed to promote vigorous plant growth by
> supplying various trace elements and micro-nutrients. Too bad it
> didn't contain a really bright light too... at least then it would
> have been useful to me ;-)
>
> Now surely, for many, all those little bottles and tablets serve a
> useful purpose.

I have to disagree here. For most people, all those little bottles and
tablets provide no useful purpose. When I worked in the trade, I moved
almost all of them behind my counter, and treated them like a pharmacist
would.

> But I have another idea. I have this fanciful notion
> that Mother Nature has a way of providing for all those trace elements
> and micro-nutrients. Feed a little bit of worm to a fish, and he poops
> out a little bit of micro-nutrients in addition to all those macro-
> nutrients. Futher, keep a clean healthy tank, and you'll probably have
> clean healthy fish.
>
>
> Cleaning
> =================================================
> Maybe once a week I take a green scrubby pad and clean the front and
> sides of the tank to remove the little bit of algae that accumulates.
> I leave the algae alone on the back. The back of my tank is painted
> black on the outside so I have no cool graphics that need to be seen.
>
> I use a nifty siphon/hose setup to suck water out of the tank, then
> add water straight from a laundry tub faucet. I use one of those
> gravel sweeper things on the end of a hose. Sucks up debris without
> sucking up gravel... works like a charm. Normal weekly water change
> would be drain about 1/5 of the water and refil. I'm convinced that
> regular water changes is one of the best things you can do for the
> health and cleanliness of your tank.

Yup, and you were acting as the mechanical filter, vacuuming it out.

> Luckily, I picked a good spot for the tank the first time. Sort of
> near a laundry tub that's lower than than the tank and NOT on carpet.
> No way I would EVER have a 55gal tank sitting in my living room on
> carpet. To me it's a horrifying thought. If I dig into the tank, I
> like to dig into it... and water ends up on the floor. If I spill or
> drip water, I either just leave it, or mop it up. What would I have to
> go through on carpet? And the sipon/filler thing is a blessing. Don't
> even want to think about carrying buckets back and forth.
>
> I've also gotten into the habit of smelling the tank. Hold your face
> near the top of the water and take a good whiff. When the tank is
> clean and healthy and has algae under control, there is practically no
> smell. If there is an excess of waste, rot or algae, there is a
> particular "fishtank" smell. Hard to describe beyond that.

Personally I don't have a great sense of smell, so I have no comments on
that one.

> Summary of important points
> =================================================
> * The most important thing needed for vigorous plant growth is plenty
> of light (but have a mechanism to vary the intensity).
>
> * Cut back on fish feeding to control algae growth. Cut back on the
> number of fish if necessary.
>
> * Bubblers are not needed if plants produce enough oxygen to satify
> fish needs.
>
> * Smell your tank as an indication of health and perform weekly 20%
> water changes.
>
>
>
> Well, that's all I can think of for now. Hopefully someone will find
> it useful and of course I'd welcome coments.

thanks for taking the time to write all this.
--
www.NetMax.tk