How do you prevent water shock

[[email protected]]

Hi, how do you prevent "water shock" introducing new fish to a tank? I
followed standard proceedure of adding new fish. Is there something
I've missed? I can't think of what else could have killed my fish.
Details: I have an established 30 gallon aquarium (running 5 years with
3 small cichlids and pleco - so it's not a cycling or new tank problem)
and I added 4 new small african cichlids and 3 rainbow sharks. Iv'e
been checking the water frequently to make sure it was correct before
adding the fish and after (ph 7, gh 20, kh 9, ammonia 0, nitrite 0,
temp. 75). The new fish started dying the day after adding them, and
continued one by one over the next few weeks. They looked perfectly
healthy and were swimming around, grazing then the next morning, dead.
My last shark died yesterday, he looked happy and healthy the night
before, then, dead. The original fish are all unaffected (and I
strongly doubt they have been attacking the new fish, they ignored them
completely). I examined all the bodies and found no sign of disease,
parasites, paleness, physical damage etc, and neither did the local
fish store, they were as puzzled as I. They tested a sample of my tank
water and said it was perfect, and they can't figure out what killed
the fish. Can someone help with what it could be? Was I sold bad stock,
could it be undetectible toxins, could it be water shock? Someone
eventually suggested it could be this, how can I prevent it, and what
is it exactly please?

[Koi-lo]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, how do you prevent "water shock" introducing new fish to a tank? I
> followed standard proceedure of adding new fish. Is there something
> I've missed? I can't think of what else could have killed my fish.
> Details: I have an established 30 gallon aquarium (running 5 years with
> 3 small cichlids and pleco - so it's not a cycling or new tank problem)
> and I added 4 new small african cichlids and 3 rainbow sharks. Iv'e
> been checking the water frequently to make sure it was correct before
> adding the fish and after (ph 7, gh 20, kh 9, ammonia 0, nitrite 0,
> temp. 75). The new fish started dying the day after adding them, and
> continued one by one over the next few weeks. They looked perfectly
> healthy and were swimming around, grazing then the next morning, dead.
> My last shark died yesterday, he looked happy and healthy the night
> before, then, dead. The original fish are all unaffected (and I
> strongly doubt they have been attacking the new fish, they ignored them
> completely). I examined all the bodies and found no sign of disease,
> parasites, paleness, physical damage etc, and neither did the local
> fish store, they were as puzzled as I. They tested a sample of my tank
> water and said it was perfect, and they can't figure out what killed
> the fish. Can someone help with what it could be? Was I sold bad stock,
> could it be undetectible toxins, could it be water shock? Someone
> eventually suggested it could be this, how can I prevent it, and what
> is it exactly please?
==================
First. You did a dangerous thing by not quarantining those new fish. New
fish can bring in any number of diseases to an established tank.

When you bring the fish home you can float them in their bag (dump some
water out to make room) and start adding a small amount of the quarantine
tank water. Add more every 10 to 15 minutes. This should help them adapt
to a difference in water. Don't just dump them from the bag into your tank.
The safest way is to check the quarantine tanks water - then what's in bag.
Check the PH mainly! Sometimes your water and the pet shop's water can be
very, very different. Ask the shop if they salt their tanks. Going from
salted to unsalted can also effect them negatively (I read this and don't
know it for a fact.)
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Justice]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>> Hi, how do you prevent "water shock" introducing new fish to a tank? I
>> followed standard proceedure of adding new fish. Is there something
>> I've missed? I can't think of what else could have killed my fish.
>> Details: I have an established 30 gallon aquarium (running 5 years with
>> 3 small cichlids and pleco - so it's not a cycling or new tank problem)
>> and I added 4 new small african cichlids and 3 rainbow sharks. Iv'e
>> been checking the water frequently to make sure it was correct before
>> adding the fish and after (ph 7, gh 20, kh 9, ammonia 0, nitrite 0,
>> temp. 75). The new fish started dying the day after adding them, and
>> continued one by one over the next few weeks. They looked perfectly
>> healthy and were swimming around, grazing then the next morning, dead.
>> My last shark died yesterday, he looked happy and healthy the night
>> before, then, dead. The original fish are all unaffected (and I
>> strongly doubt they have been attacking the new fish, they ignored them
>> completely). I examined all the bodies and found no sign of disease,
>> parasites, paleness, physical damage etc, and neither did the local
>> fish store, they were as puzzled as I. They tested a sample of my tank
>> water and said it was perfect, and they can't figure out what killed
>> the fish. Can someone help with what it could be? Was I sold bad stock,
>> could it be undetectible toxins, could it be water shock? Someone
>> eventually suggested it could be this, how can I prevent it, and what
>> is it exactly please?
>
> ==================
> First. You did a dangerous thing by not quarantining those new fish.
> New fish can bring in any number of diseases to an established tank.
>
> When you bring the fish home you can float them in their bag (dump some
> water out to make room) and start adding a small amount of the
> quarantine tank water. Add more every 10 to 15 minutes. This should
> help them adapt to a difference in water. Don't just dump them from the
> bag into your tank. The safest way is to check the quarantine tanks
> water - then what's in bag. Check the PH mainly! Sometimes your water
> and the pet shop's water can be very, very different. Ask the shop if
> they salt their tanks. Going from salted to unsalted can also effect
> them negatively (I read this and don't know it for a fact.)

I have never used a Q tank and neather has anybodie I know. what I do is
poke a few pin holes in the bag then place it in the tank to let the
waters exchange. Any heathy fish you have should not get sick. the new
ones might as they will probably loose their slime coats from the shock
of a new home and diffirent water.

[~Roy]

And just what do you do after adding quarantine water to the
bag.........leave them in the bag? Duh? Dump em in the tank? Carol, if
your gonna give advice at least make sure you give the full story and
don;t let those fish in the bag and the folks holding the bag.....you
old blabbering fat assed bimbo that don;t have a clue until she looks
it up first then replies, so with the half assed answer her computer
connection evidently died on her before she copy pasted it all.

Reel McKoi school of idiots!
YOu got the right email.your totally invalid you stupid bimbo


On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:30:23 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

>===<>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>===<>> Hi, how do you prevent "water shock" introducing new fish to a tank? I
>===<>> followed standard proceedure of adding new fish. Is there something
>===<>> I've missed? I can't think of what else could have killed my fish.
>===<>> Details: I have an established 30 gallon aquarium (running 5 years with
>===<>> 3 small cichlids and pleco - so it's not a cycling or new tank problem)
>===<>> and I added 4 new small african cichlids and 3 rainbow sharks. Iv'e
>===<>> been checking the water frequently to make sure it was correct before
>===<>> adding the fish and after (ph 7, gh 20, kh 9, ammonia 0, nitrite 0,
>===<>> temp. 75). The new fish started dying the day after adding them, and
>===<>> continued one by one over the next few weeks. They looked perfectly
>===<>> healthy and were swimming around, grazing then the next morning, dead.
>===<>> My last shark died yesterday, he looked happy and healthy the night
>===<>> before, then, dead. The original fish are all unaffected (and I
>===<>> strongly doubt they have been attacking the new fish, they ignored them
>===<>> completely). I examined all the bodies and found no sign of disease,
>===<>> parasites, paleness, physical damage etc, and neither did the local
>===<>> fish store, they were as puzzled as I. They tested a sample of my tank
>===<>> water and said it was perfect, and they can't figure out what killed
>===<>> the fish. Can someone help with what it could be? Was I sold bad stock,
>===<>> could it be undetectible toxins, could it be water shock? Someone
>===<>> eventually suggested it could be this, how can I prevent it, and what
>===<>> is it exactly please?
>===<>==================
>===<>First. You did a dangerous thing by not quarantining those new fish. New
>===<>fish can bring in any number of diseases to an established tank.
>===<>
>===<>When you bring the fish home you can float them in their bag (dump some
>===<>water out to make room) and start adding a small amount of the quarantine
>===<>tank water. Add more every 10 to 15 minutes. This should help them adapt
>===<>to a difference in water. Don't just dump them from the bag into your tank.
>===<>The safest way is to check the quarantine tanks water - then what's in bag.
>===<>Check the PH mainly! Sometimes your water and the pet shop's water can be
>===<>very, very different. Ask the shop if they salt their tanks. Going from
>===<>salted to unsalted can also effect them negatively (I read this and don't
>===<>know it for a fact.)


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

Okay people, play nice. I like the idea of poking pin holes in the bag
rather than letting the blood drain out of my arms spending an hour
hovering over the tank slowly mixing the bag water and tank water. I
then let them swim out on their own accord. But finding out the pet
store water is adversly different from mine after I got the fish home,
there wouldn't be much more I could do about it at that point. But then
again at least I would know why they died. It's upsetting not having a
clue why they died, I'm afraid to add any more fish.
P.S. I don't know how one could tell how salty one water is over the
other . . .
Anyone know if there are there any further steps I could take, or is it
basically a gamble with little fishy lives? I hate to see them die. Or
could it be something else that killed them? Or bad fish stock, or . .
.. ?

[Empty]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:41:02 +0000, Justice wrote:

> what I do is
> poke a few pin holes in the bag then place it in the tank to let the
> waters exchange. Any heathy fish you have should not get sick.

Unless of course there was something on that alien fish or in that alien
water that you unceremoniously dumped into the tank. I imagine you are one
of those "ich is present in every aquarium" people.

I don't use a quarantine tank, which I know is bad. I am setting one up
before I get anymore fish (used to run one, but stopped buying fish for a
long time). I definitely do not dump the store water into the tank though.

~Empty

[Koi-lo]

"Justice" > wrote in message
news:yJref.112237$y_1.63072@edtnps89...
>
> I have never used a Q tank and neather has anybodie I know. what I do is
> poke a few pin holes in the bag then place it in the tank to let the
> waters exchange. Any heathy fish you have should not get sick.

$$ Parasites are no respecter of health. They can build up rapidly under
aquarium conditions. They open the fish up to bacterial infections.... and
you know the rest.

the new
> ones might as they will probably loose their slime coats from the shock of
> a new home and diffirent water.
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Okay people, play nice.
I like the idea of poking pin holes in the bag
> rather than letting the blood drain out of my arms spending an hour
> hovering over the tank slowly mixing the bag water and tank water.

## I never allow the bag water to enter the quarantine tank. I clip the bag
on to the side of the aquarium and add water every 10 to 15 minutes or so.
By the time the bag's full the the change should be ok. I net the fish from
the bag and turn it lose in the tank - discarding both bag and water.

I
> then let them swim out on their own accord. But finding out the pet
> store water is adversly different from mine after I got the fish home,
> there wouldn't be much more I could do about it at that point.

## It does work to add water from the tank to the bag. You may not get them
exact but it gets pretty darn close. I've already brought fish home from
the store with a PH of 7 in the bag and my tanks are 7.4 to as much as 7.8.
That's too much of a difference in my opinion to just equalize the
temperature and turn them loose.

But then
> again at least I would know why they died. It's upsetting not having a
> clue why they died, I'm afraid to add any more fish.

## It's so frustrating I know. I've had fish look really great and be dead
in a few hours.

> P.S. I don't know how one could tell how salty one water is over the
> other . . .

## They can give you a rough estimate as to how much to add per 10 gallons -
ask the store manager. Many are willing to discuss it with customers.
Others are clueless.

> Anyone know if there are there any further steps I could take, or is it
> basically a gamble with little fishy lives? I hate to see them die. Or
> could it be something else that killed them? Or bad fish stock, or . .

## You'll probably never find the answer. PH shock. Stress. Anything. I
had some fantails die several years ago with gill flukes. These are hard to
find without scraping the gill filaments and looking under a microscope.
Dr. Johnson (Koivet.com) was a great help at the time. :-(
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

wrote:
> Okay people, play nice. I like the idea of poking pin holes in the bag
> rather than letting the blood drain out of my arms spending an hour
> hovering over the tank slowly mixing the bag water and tank water. I
> then let them swim out on their own accord. But finding out the pet
> store water is adversly different from mine after I got the fish home,
> there wouldn't be much more I could do about it at that point. But then
> again at least I would know why they died. It's upsetting not having a
> clue why they died, I'm afraid to add any more fish.
> P.S. I don't know how one could tell how salty one water is over the
> other . . .
> Anyone know if there are there any further steps I could take, or is it
> basically a gamble with little fishy lives? I hate to see them die. Or
> could it be something else that killed them? Or bad fish stock, or . .
> . ?
>
Yep, I like the idea of poking pin holes...never thought of it
before...my only concern is that water flows both ways.....if you ever
buy loaches you can dispense with the pin as they do it for you :-) I
actually don't think there was anything else you could do - a QT tank
would stop a wipe out of your existing stock but not deaths among new
purchases - that is why people quarantine...

Basically, if your fish are dying shortly after going into what you are
certain is good water quality (ie. zero nitrite/ammonia) and you have
not gone against any advise that you probably haven't been given
depending on the LFS (hardness, pH, salinity etc) - then take the dead
fish, take a sample of the water and discuss....if they kick up a fuss
discuss loudly....

I recently got store credit by just producing statistics on the number
of new fish I'd got from them that had died.....they had a small problem
which obviously they won't admit to a customer...now resolved and their
fish are back to the best quality in the area....

If you bought a puppy that was ill or dead within a few days/weeks what
would you do???? I would guess read the riot act to whoever sold you
it...fish are the same and you are buying them as pets and you deserve
to purchase pets that will not die within a few days if you have taken
due care of them - sorry high horse....

Gill

[Justice]

Empty wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:41:02 +0000, Justice wrote:
>
>
>>what I do is
>> poke a few pin holes in the bag then place it in the tank to let the
>>waters exchange. Any heathy fish you have should not get sick.
>
>
> Unless of course there was something on that alien fish or in that alien
> water that you unceremoniously dumped into the tank. I imagine you are one
> of those "ich is present in every aquarium" people.
>
> I don't use a quarantine tank, which I know is bad. I am setting one up
> before I get anymore fish (used to run one, but stopped buying fish for a
> long time). I definitely do not dump the store water into the tank though.
>
> ~Empty

No I am not one of those people once ich is dead it is dead, fungal
probles yes I will agree. I was just reading in an old aqarium mag about
the amune system of fish. and pretty much that most protiens that attack
known pathegens are waht makes up the "stess coat of fish" be ond that
they have tester protiens that try to kill what enters their blood
steem. If i intrerpeded the article wrong i am sorry

[Justice]

Gill Passman wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> Okay people, play nice. I like the idea of poking pin holes in the bag
>> rather than letting the blood drain out of my arms spending an hour
>> hovering over the tank slowly mixing the bag water and tank water. I
>> then let them swim out on their own accord. But finding out the pet
>> store water is adversly different from mine after I got the fish home,
>> there wouldn't be much more I could do about it at that point. But then
>> again at least I would know why they died. It's upsetting not having a
>> clue why they died, I'm afraid to add any more fish.
>> P.S. I don't know how one could tell how salty one water is over the
>> other . . .
>> Anyone know if there are there any further steps I could take, or is it
>> basically a gamble with little fishy lives? I hate to see them die. Or
>> could it be something else that killed them? Or bad fish stock, or . .
>> . ?
>>
> Yep, I like the idea of poking pin holes...never thought of it
> before...my only concern is that water flows both ways.....if you ever
> buy loaches you can dispense with the pin as they do it for you :-) I
> actually don't think there was anything else you could do - a QT tank
> would stop a wipe out of your existing stock but not deaths among new
> purchases - that is why people quarantine...
>
> Basically, if your fish are dying shortly after going into what you are
> certain is good water quality (ie. zero nitrite/ammonia) and you have
> not gone against any advise that you probably haven't been given
> depending on the LFS (hardness, pH, salinity etc) - then take the dead
> fish, take a sample of the water and discuss....if they kick up a fuss
> discuss loudly....
>
> I recently got store credit by just producing statistics on the number
> of new fish I'd got from them that had died.....they had a small problem
> which obviously they won't admit to a customer...now resolved and their
> fish are back to the best quality in the area....
>
> If you bought a puppy that was ill or dead within a few days/weeks what
> would you do???? I would guess read the riot act to whoever sold you
> it...fish are the same and you are buying them as pets and you deserve
> to purchase pets that will not die within a few days if you have taken
> due care of them - sorry high horse....
>
> Gill
I agree, if you have continuous probles with that store stop going and
tell all people you know who want fish no go

[Mean_Chlorine]

I haven't read all the replies, but has anyone yet pointed out to the
original poster that his fish, dying more than one day from being put
in the tank, _did not die from water parameter shock_?

Water parameter shock kills quickly - the fish is dead within 24 hours
(in most cases within ONE hour), or the shock will not kill it at all.

Something else killed his fish, not shock.

[Ali Day]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .

> Yep, I like the idea of poking pin holes...never thought of it before...my
> only concern is that water flows both ways

Sorry but as an engineer I can't see how you will get a sufficient water
flow through pin holes, if you have increased pressure in the bag water will
flow out until it stabilises, then flow stops. If you have a higher pressure
in the tank i.e. depth, the pressure will force air then the water out of
the bag. There is no mechanism that will start a circulating current through
the holes.
I'm one of these bad people who don't have a quarantine tank as well, but
in five years since I been buying fish out here I've had one illness. But I
do take some precautions, let the bag accustom to the temperature for 20 -
30 mins, then over 30 - 40 mins add a small amount of water every 5 mins or
so. Then when done strain the whole lot into a bucket through the fish net
and add the new fish to the tank.

> If you bought a puppy that was ill or dead within a few days/weeks what
> would you do???? I would guess read the riot act to whoever sold you
> it...fish are the same and you are buying them as pets and you deserve to
> purchase pets that will not die within a few days if you have taken due
> care of them - sorry high horse....

Expecting a basic service is not not really being on your high horse. My LFS
has a 48 hour guarantee, if you bring in a sample of water with the dead
fish they will replace them. Without wishing to over simplify or generalise
too much, what I have read here over the years leads me to believe that on
the other side of the atlantic they have more 'rogue' fish stores not really
giving the level of service we would expect. I know this isn't the case for
all, but we hear of more horror stories coming from stateside than from the
european contingent here.

[Ali Day]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
>
> I haven't read all the replies, but has anyone yet pointed out to the
> original poster that his fish, dying more than one day from being put
> in the tank, _did not die from water parameter shock_?
>
> Water parameter shock kills quickly - the fish is dead within 24 hours
> (in most cases within ONE hour), or the shock will not kill it at all.
>
> Something else killed his fish, not shock.

I thought shock could sometimes take a while to kill fish? Something might
happen one week then the 'pop it' then next. OK this is usually through
secondary causes, stress induced illness, etc. But I had always thought that
fish can die days after a shock incident.

[[email protected]]

Ali Day wrote:

> > Something else killed his fish, not shock.
>
> I thought shock could sometimes take a while to kill fish?

A shock is a sudden, traumatic, event; from an aquarist POV shock is
when the parameters are within limits which would be acceptable if the
fish was acclimatized, but not if the fish is just plunked in. After 24
hours they should either be dead or have adjusted.

One might have cases where the parameters are outside the acceptable
range of a sensitive fish, although in practice the only such case I
can think of is that in brackish aquaria some fish may experience renal
failure after weeks or months - but that's not really shock.

In practice the only form of water parameter shock which aquarists
really need worry about is salinity shock, going _from_ water with a
higher conductivity (e.g. the tapwater used by the LFS & which is in
the bag with your newly bought fish; or water with added salts) _to_
water with very low conductivity (e.g. the peat-filtered RO water used
by a conscientous aquarist).
If you've got low conductivity water, you need to be very careful with
your acclimatization.

> Something might
> happen one week then the 'pop it' then next. OK this is usually through
> secondary causes, stress induced illness, etc.

Yes, this can happen. Stress, e.g from shock, can temporarily suppress
the fishs immune system, causing a disease it's already carrying to
break out and/or become more severe, but the shock in itself is then
not the culprit, and the way to handle it isn't slower acclimatization,
but to use a quarantine tank and apply appropriate medication.

[Koi-lo]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
> Expecting a basic service is not not really being on your high horse. My
> LFS has a 48 hour guarantee, if you bring in a sample of water with the
> dead fish they will replace them. Without wishing to over simplify or
> generalise too much, what I have read here over the years leads me to
> believe that on the other side of the atlantic they have more 'rogue' fish
> stores not really giving the level of service we would expect. I know this
> isn't the case for all, but we hear of more horror stories coming from
> stateside than from the european contingent here.
======================
That may be because we have so many chain pet shops here in the USA. The
people they hire know nothing about the pets the stores sell, and less about
the fish. No one cares. They get their paycheck at the end of the week no
matter what goes on in the store. Privately owned shops are better run for
obvious reasons. But there are exceptions there as well. We have one old
time shop that hires teenagers, the owner is seldom there, and the fish are
in deplorable condition.
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yes, this can happen. Stress, e.g from shock, can temporarily suppress
> the fishs immune system, causing a disease it's already carrying to
> break out and/or become more severe, but the shock in itself is then
> not the culprit, and the way to handle it isn't slower acclimatization,
> but to use a quarantine tank and apply appropriate medication.
=====================
From what I gather reading messages here people are no longer using
quarantine tanks. These need not be fishtanks but inexpensive plastic
storage containers from Wal*Mart with cheapo plastic box filters and a
slight covering of gravel (to house the needed bacteria). The cost would be
under $20 and last forever. If you purchase fish often these can be a real
lifesaver. They halt disease at the door so to speak. Everything I buy
gets quarantined for 21 days. This since the loss of a entire pond of koi
due to one coming in with "ulcer disease." In those days I only quarantined
for 7 days.
--
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[George Pontis]

wrote:

> Hi, how do you prevent "water shock" introducing new fish to a tank? I
> followed standard proceedure of adding new fish. Is there something
> I've missed? I can't think of what else could have killed my fish.
> Details: I have an established 30 gallon aquarium (running 5 years
> with 3 small cichlids and pleco - so it's not a cycling or new tank
> problem) and I added 4 new small african cichlids and 3 rainbow
> sharks. Iv'e been checking the water frequently to make sure it was
> correct before adding the fish and after (ph 7, gh 20, kh 9, ammonia
> 0, nitrite 0, temp. 75). The new fish started dying the day after
> adding them, and continued one by one over the next few weeks. They
> looked perfectly healthy and were swimming around, grazing then the
> next morning, dead. My last shark died yesterday, he looked happy
> and healthy the night before, then, dead. The original fish are all
> unaffected (and I strongly doubt they have been attacking the new
> fish, they ignored them completely). I examined all the bodies and
> found no sign of disease, parasites, paleness, physical damage etc,
> and neither did the local fish store, they were as puzzled as I. They
> tested a sample of my tank water and said it was perfect, and they
> can't figure out what killed the fish. Can someone help with what it
> could be? Was I sold bad stock, could it be undetectible toxins,
> could it be water shock? Someone eventually suggested it could be
> this, how can I prevent it, and what is it exactly please?

The fish could have been damaged by osmotic shock when they arrived at
the store. if they had just received them and you bought the fish
shortly after, then that could explain it. I have seen stores accept a
bag of fish and just pour it, fish plus water, into an existing tank.
No quarantine, no acclimation, nothing.

When you bring home new fish you can acclimate them gently if you have
an hour or two to go through the process. Large fish cannot adapt as
quickly as small fish, and some fish like otos seem to be more
sensitive. You can stretch out the time a littl more with these. One
easy procedure begins by putting the fish with their store water into a
larger bucket right away. An opaque, unused 1 or 2 gallon paint bucket
works well. (It helps to ask the clerk at the store to fill the bag
with a generous amount of water.)

Then you set up a very slow siphon using a piece of airline tubing and
a valve. Or perhaps tie a knot in the tubing to slow the flow rate. You
want to drip water from the destination tank into the bucket at a rate
such that it will take an hour or more to fill one gallon. Start slow.
The fish will adjust comfortably over that time to the water conditions
of the new tank. Once you have siphoned in the gallon (or more for
larger fish), you net the fish, transfer them to the destination tank,
and discard the water in the bucket. Sometimes it is easiest to pour
the water and fish from the bucket through a large net rather than
trying to catch the fish in the bucket.

An alternative to using the siphon is to pour in some water manually
every 10 minutes or so. The amount of water that is added is very small
at first, maybe one quarter the volume of what the fish came in for the
first to or three times. Then half, for two or three times more, then
equal amounts...

It doesn't sound like your fish succumbed to disease but that is a very
real risk. Most experts would quarantine the new arrivals for at least
two weeks before adding them to an established tank. The same procedure
would apply for acclimating the fish to the water in a quarantine tank.

--
George

[NetMax]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, how do you prevent "water shock" introducing new fish to a tank?

i) know the characteristics of the source water as compared to the
destination
ii) adjust your acclimization according to the results from above (many
techniques exist)

Some scenarios:
Your water is the ideal pH and gH for the fish purchased according to
literature, but the source water was at another extreme. For example moving
fish from source/destinations of different extreme osmotic pressures can be
very stressful, especially from hard water to soft water. This change
requires several days of acclimation, not 20minutes in a floating bag.

Source/destination are at the same gH/pH etc being on a common municipal
supply, but destination (home tank) gets regular maintenance and NO3 is kept
to around 10ppm. Source tank (retail) doesn't get same maintenance and the
NO3 is at 60ppm. Fish will be shocked by overly 'clean' water. Smaller
fish are more suceptible to this.

Also there are many fish which transport very poorly. They are typically
more expensive because of the losses the stores and importers have to
absorb. Did I hear you mention they were sharks, ie: Bala shark or Silver
shark. This one has a reputation for high transport losses.

Last point, fish are sometimes severely chilled in transport, and this
manifests itself after the transport for about 3 days. Not all fish react
this way, and it is more common in winter months or areas where the nights
are very cold. When connecting flights don't, or are delayed, cargo (fish)
sit on the tarmac or other unheated locations. I've suffered many
problematic shipments when this happened (or mid-transport water changes are
missed resulting in NH3 burn) and if I've recognized the symptoms, I'll
arrange to have my transport guarantee extended to several days, so I can
total up the losses for credits. This type of shock may have had been
accompanied by some weaknesses (malnutrition, disease etc), as I'm only an
observer at the receiving end.
--
www.NetMax.tk

<snip>

[NetMax]

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ali Day" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Expecting a basic service is not not really being on your high horse. My
>> LFS has a 48 hour guarantee, if you bring in a sample of water with the
>> dead fish they will replace them. Without wishing to over simplify or
>> generalise too much, what I have read here over the years leads me to
>> believe that on the other side of the atlantic they have more 'rogue'
>> fish stores not really giving the level of service we would expect. I
>> know this isn't the case for all, but we hear of more horror stories
>> coming from stateside than from the european contingent here.
> ======================
> That may be because we have so many chain pet shops here in the USA. The
> people they hire know nothing about the pets the stores sell, and less
> about the fish. No one cares. They get their paycheck at the end of the
> week no matter what goes on in the store. Privately owned shops are
> better run for obvious reasons. But there are exceptions there as well.
> We have one old time shop that hires teenagers, the owner is seldom there,
> and the fish are in deplorable condition.
> --
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>


Acclimation of *pond* fish is a whole different kettle of fish ;~). To
start with, in retail, pond fish are often housed in opaque containers
instead of aquariums, so you can only really inspect the fish which have
been bagged for sale. There might be obviously diseased fish in with them,
but they look fine from above.

The effort anyone puts into acclimation (quarantine tank, duration of stay
etc) should have something to do with the risk x the consequences,
consequences including financial or emotional value of the other fish. In a
pond, these two factors can be enormous, as Koi can grow quite large
(expensive) and, for many many years (emotional), plus there is the expense
(or complete impracticality) of treating such a large body of water. To
further aggravate things, the cooler water temperature is hospitable to more
types of bacteria, and many diseases take longer to manifest their symptoms
at cooler temperatures.

To further make it difficult, pond fish don't quarantine very well in
aquariums (unless they are very young). It's not uncommon for ponders to
keep small pond inserts in the garage (200-500g) just for such purposes.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
>> That may be because we have so many chain pet shops here in the USA. The
>> people they hire know nothing about the pets the stores sell, and less
>> about the fish. No one cares. They get their paycheck at the end of the
>> week no matter what goes on in the store. Privately owned shops are
>> better run for obvious reasons. But there are exceptions there as well.
>> We have one old time shop that hires teenagers, the owner is seldom
>> there, and the fish are in deplorable condition.
>> --
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
> Acclimation of *pond* fish is a whole different kettle of fish ;~). To
> start with, in retail, pond fish are often housed in opaque containers
> instead of aquariums, so you can only really inspect the fish which have
> been bagged for sale. There might be obviously diseased fish in with
> them, but they look fine from above.

$$ This is true but I'm not referring to pond fish. Once bagged a pond fish
needs to be closely examined for parasites and ulcers on it's undersides and
sides.

> The effort anyone puts into acclimation (quarantine tank, duration of stay
> etc) should have something to do with the risk x the consequences,
> consequences including financial or emotional value of the other fish. In
> a pond, these two factors can be enormous, as Koi can grow quite large
> (expensive) and, for many many years (emotional), plus there is the
> expense (or complete impracticality) of treating such a large body of
> water. To further aggravate things, the cooler water temperature is
> hospitable to more types of bacteria, and many diseases take longer to
> manifest their symptoms at cooler temperatures.
>
> To further make it difficult, pond fish don't quarantine very well in
> aquariums (unless they are very young). It's not uncommon for ponders to
> keep small pond inserts in the garage (200-500g) just for such purposes.

$$ We use 150 gallon kiddy pools from Wal*Mart. Aquarium fish are
quarantined in 10g tank in the sunroom.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
>>> That may be because we have so many chain pet shops here in the USA.
>>> The people they hire know nothing about the pets the stores sell, and
>>> less about the fish. No one cares. They get their paycheck at the
>>> end of the week no matter what goes on in the store. Privately owned
>>> shops are better run for obvious reasons. But there are exceptions
>>> there as well. We have one old time shop that hires teenagers, the
>>> owner is seldom there, and the fish are in deplorable condition.
>>> --
>>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>> Acclimation of *pond* fish is a whole different kettle of fish ;~).
>> To start with, in retail, pond fish are often housed in opaque
>> containers instead of aquariums, so you can only really inspect the
>> fish which have been bagged for sale. There might be obviously
>> diseased fish in with them, but they look fine from above.
>
> $$ This is true but I'm not referring to pond fish. Once bagged a pond
> fish needs to be closely examined for parasites and ulcers on it's
> undersides and sides.
>
>> The effort anyone puts into acclimation (quarantine tank, duration of
>> stay etc) should have something to do with the risk x the
>> consequences, consequences including financial or emotional value of
>> the other fish. In a pond, these two factors can be enormous, as Koi
>> can grow quite large (expensive) and, for many many years (emotional),
>> plus there is the expense (or complete impracticality) of treating
>> such a large body of water. To further aggravate things, the cooler
>> water temperature is hospitable to more types of bacteria, and many
>> diseases take longer to manifest their symptoms at cooler
>> temperatures.
>>
>> To further make it difficult, pond fish don't quarantine very well in
>> aquariums (unless they are very young). It's not uncommon for ponders
>> to keep small pond inserts in the garage (200-500g) just for such
>> purposes.
>
> $$ We use 150 gallon kiddy pools from Wal*Mart. Aquarium fish are
> quarantined in 10g tank in the sunroom.
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>


My post wasn't directed towards you Koi lo, I was just running the mouth
as I'm prone to do when a fish topic comes up that I think I might know
something about ;~). Aquarists don't know how easy they have it as
compared to ponders when it comes to quarantine.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
>> $$ We use 150 gallon kiddy pools from Wal*Mart. Aquarium fish are
>> quarantined in 10g tank in the sunroom.
>> --
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
==============================================
> ===
> My post wasn't directed towards you Koi lo, I was just running the mouth
> as I'm prone to do when a fish topic comes up that I think I might know
> something about ;~).

$$ Oh sorry! :-) In OE it appeared right under mine as a "reply."

Aquarists don't know how easy they have it as
> compared to ponders when it comes to quarantine.

$$ This is so true. I seldom buy koi now as I raise my own. When I did buy
them those $10 kiddy pools with a black dropcloth liner came in handy. I
also had a 30L set up for awhile as a quarantine tank. That was when I was
populating my ponds from the local Aquarium stores with both choice
Shubunkins and young small koi. Ulcer disease still got past quarantine
(when I was doing it for 14 days). I now quarantine all fish for 21 days.
If nothing shows up by then I'm pretty sure the new fish are "clean." I use
KoiZyme now to prevent that disease in my ponds, pools and tanks.
--

My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
<snip>
>> My post wasn't directed towards you Koi lo, I was just running the mouth
>> as I'm prone to do when a fish topic comes up that I think I might know
>> something about ;~).
>
> $$ Oh sorry! :-) In OE it appeared right under mine as a "reply."

I can see how you might think that, but I'm just following the thread's
topic :o).
--
www.NetMax.tk