Lost 3 of my Clown Loaches :-(

[Gill Passman]

I knew it was a possibility as I just couldn't get rid of the ich....the
other two still have spots but I'm hoping that I can still beat it. I
actually found out last night the probable cause of it's
persistence...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.

Now, the strange thing is that these were 3 3" Clown Loaches and I
haven't seen them since yesterday morning - they didn't come out for
bloodworm last night...and when I say haven't seen them they are not
anywhere in the tank - I stripped it this morning looking for them...I
find it hard to believe that their tank companions could have eaten them
in such a short time scale and not leave any trace whatsoever...I've
checked behind and under the tank in case they jumped but nothing....

Tank companions are:-

1 Queen Arabesque
6 Neons
2 Guppies
3 Gouramis
3 Flying Foxes
3 Boesmani Rainbows
2 Red Rainbows
numerous Otos

I'm very sad that I have lost these fish and have vowed not to have any
more until I get the bigger tank.... :-) I will continue to try and beat
the ich on the remaining pair...

Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?

Gill

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
....there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
> been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
> change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.

## Why would traces of nitrite keep ICK going? I find Jungle's Ick Guard
effective under all conditions. There's no need to raise the temperature
either.

> Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?

## They couldn't just vanish. They're somewhere. If they jumped out could
they have become snacks for a cat or a dog?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Ali Day]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
>I knew it was a possibility as I just couldn't get rid of the ich....the
>other two still have spots but I'm hoping that I can still beat it. I
>actually found out last night the probable cause of it's
>persistence...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
>been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
>change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.
>
> Now, the strange thing is that these were 3 3" Clown Loaches and I haven't
> seen them since yesterday morning - they didn't come out for bloodworm
> last night...and when I say haven't seen them they are not anywhere in the
> tank - I stripped it this morning looking for them...I find it hard to
> believe that their tank companions could have eaten them in such a short
> time scale and not leave any trace whatsoever...I've checked behind and
> under the tank in case they jumped but nothing....

I know you say you've checked, but I have a habit of losing some of my
clowns, it there is a pencil sized hole in any of your ornaments, there is a
fair chance you'll find a clown in there. I had some fake mangrove roots in
my tanks for a while, and then realised all the clowns were lodged deep in
side this ornament and they never came out. Unfortunately a couple of years
ago I lost 2 because they didn't come out of the root, and I thought I'd got
them all, when I was doing a major overhaul.

good luck

A

[Gill Passman]

Gill Passman wrote:
> I knew it was a possibility as I just couldn't get rid of the ich....the
> other two still have spots but I'm hoping that I can still beat it. I
> actually found out last night the probable cause of it's
> persistence...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
> been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
> change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.
>
> Now, the strange thing is that these were 3 3" Clown Loaches and I
> haven't seen them since yesterday morning - they didn't come out for
> bloodworm last night...and when I say haven't seen them they are not
> anywhere in the tank - I stripped it this morning looking for them...I
> find it hard to believe that their tank companions could have eaten them
> in such a short time scale and not leave any trace whatsoever...I've
> checked behind and under the tank in case they jumped but nothing....
>
> Tank companions are:-
>
> 1 Queen Arabesque
> 6 Neons
> 2 Guppies
> 3 Gouramis
> 3 Flying Foxes
> 3 Boesmani Rainbows
> 2 Red Rainbows
> numerous Otos
>
> I'm very sad that I have lost these fish and have vowed not to have any
> more until I get the bigger tank.... :-) I will continue to try and beat
> the ich on the remaining pair...
>
> Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?
>
> Gill

Reports of their death maybe premature....spotted one of them
briefly....perhaps they are being held prisoner by the plec in "Plec
hollow" - it has happened to Clown Loaches before....but definitely no
obvious sign of them except this one brief sighting....

Just wish we could get the meds here that are available in the US -
sigh...just going to try using daily water changes and see if that works....

Still amazes me how fish can "vanish" in what is really a small,
contained area....

Gill

[Tynk]

Koi-lo wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
> ...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
> > been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
> > change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.
>
> ## Why would traces of nitrite keep ICK going? I find Jungle's Ick Guard
> effective under all conditions. There's no need to raise the temperature
> either.
>
> > Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?
>
> ## They couldn't just vanish. They're somewhere. If they jumped out could
> they have become snacks for a cat or a dog?
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
> ## Why would traces of nitrite keep ICK going? I find Jungle's Ick Guard
> effective under all conditions. There's no need to raise the temperature
> either.
The best medication for Ich (with an "h") is Quick Cure. Use if for 7
days, not like the 2-3 days on the label. The Ich parasite's life cycle
taks longer than that 2-3 days to kill, so it must be used for longer
than most of the Ich meds recommend.
Also, you should always raise the temp (slowly) when treating for Ich.
It speeds up the life cycle. Something that you WANT to do when
treating for it.

[Mary Burns]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Gill Passman wrote:
>> I knew it was a possibility as I just couldn't get rid of the ich....the
>> other two still have spots but I'm hoping that I can still beat it. I
>> actually found out last night the probable cause of it's
>> persistence...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
>> been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
>> change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.
>>
>> Now, the strange thing is that these were 3 3" Clown Loaches and I
>> haven't seen them since yesterday morning - they didn't come out for
>> bloodworm last night...and when I say haven't seen them they are not
>> anywhere in the tank - I stripped it this morning looking for them...I
>> find it hard to believe that their tank companions could have eaten them
>> in such a short time scale and not leave any trace whatsoever...I've
>> checked behind and under the tank in case they jumped but nothing....
>>
>> Tank companions are:-
>>
>> 1 Queen Arabesque
>> 6 Neons
>> 2 Guppies
>> 3 Gouramis
>> 3 Flying Foxes
>> 3 Boesmani Rainbows
>> 2 Red Rainbows
>> numerous Otos
>>
>> I'm very sad that I have lost these fish and have vowed not to have any
>> more until I get the bigger tank.... :-) I will continue to try and beat
>> the ich on the remaining pair...
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?
>>
>> Gill
>
> Reports of their death maybe premature....spotted one of them
> briefly....perhaps they are being held prisoner by the plec in "Plec
> hollow" - it has happened to Clown Loaches before....but definitely no
> obvious sign of them except this one brief sighting....
>
> Just wish we could get the meds here that are available in the US -
> sigh...just going to try using daily water changes and see if that
> works....
>
> Still amazes me how fish can "vanish" in what is really a small, contained
> area....
>
> Gill



I'm so sorry you have lost more clowns. I used Kordons Ridich from an online
supplier and it arrived the next day. It cured them in 6 days and treatment
is for a further 3 days after last spot. If I had to start again with
clowns,I would get at least 5 or 7 and after quarantine, move other fish out
so they can all stay together, despite adding maybe 10" in one go. I am now
trying to get most of my tanks single species, apart from the clowns who
have 6 female platies for company. They dominate the front all the time, not
afraid, and don't hide if I approach. They come to top to snatch the food as
it goes in. It has taken time for them to be this confident. Either because
there are 10 or because they are the dominant/biggest fish in the 65g. I
would recommend keeping clowns with one other species acting as dither or
colourful tankmates.It simply works without wondering who gets on with who.
There is no doubt they take most of the food, another problem solved instead
of wondering how to get food to them with other fish taking it first, if
they hide too much. I know they will need a bigger tank one day, but am
cautious about changing anything at moment. When you look into where fish
come from, their natural environment, clowns would never bump into some of
the species we put them with and hope they get along together.Mary

[Koi-lo]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Koi-lo wrote:
>> ## Why would traces of nitrite keep ICK going? I find Jungle's Ick Guard
>> effective under all conditions. There's no need to raise the temperature
>> either.
====================
> The best medication for Ich (with an "h") is Quick Cure.

** Agreed. I have used Quick Cure as well. :-)

Use if for 7
> days, not like the 2-3 days on the label. The Ich parasite's life cycle
> taks longer than that 2-3 days to kill, so it must be used for longer
> than most of the Ich meds recommend.
> Also, you should always raise the temp (slowly) when treating for Ich.
> It speeds up the life cycle. Something that you WANT to do when
> treating for it.

** This is true. But some of us don't have heaters in our tanks. In that
case a treatment that will work well in cooler water is the way to go. I
agree though that Quick Cure is an excellent product.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[smcclure415]

Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
nothing.

I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.

Flash forward 1 week...

We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.

Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
:)

[Gill Passman]

Mary Burns wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>>I knew it was a possibility as I just couldn't get rid of the ich....the
>>>other two still have spots but I'm hoping that I can still beat it. I
>>>actually found out last night the probable cause of it's
>>>persistence...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
>>>been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
>>>change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.
>>>
>>>Now, the strange thing is that these were 3 3" Clown Loaches and I
>>>haven't seen them since yesterday morning - they didn't come out for
>>>bloodworm last night...and when I say haven't seen them they are not
>>>anywhere in the tank - I stripped it this morning looking for them...I
>>>find it hard to believe that their tank companions could have eaten them
>>>in such a short time scale and not leave any trace whatsoever...I've
>>>checked behind and under the tank in case they jumped but nothing....
>>>
>>>Tank companions are:-
>>>
>>>1 Queen Arabesque
>>>6 Neons
>>>2 Guppies
>>>3 Gouramis
>>>3 Flying Foxes
>>>3 Boesmani Rainbows
>>>2 Red Rainbows
>>>numerous Otos
>>>
>>>I'm very sad that I have lost these fish and have vowed not to have any
>>>more until I get the bigger tank.... :-) I will continue to try and beat
>>>the ich on the remaining pair...
>>>
>>>Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>Reports of their death maybe premature....spotted one of them
>>briefly....perhaps they are being held prisoner by the plec in "Plec
>>hollow" - it has happened to Clown Loaches before....but definitely no
>>obvious sign of them except this one brief sighting....
>>
>>Just wish we could get the meds here that are available in the US -
>>sigh...just going to try using daily water changes and see if that
>>works....
>>
>>Still amazes me how fish can "vanish" in what is really a small, contained
>>area....
>>
>>Gill
>
>
>
>
> I'm so sorry you have lost more clowns. I used Kordons Ridich from an online
> supplier and it arrived the next day. It cured them in 6 days and treatment
> is for a further 3 days after last spot. If I had to start again with
> clowns,I would get at least 5 or 7 and after quarantine, move other fish out
> so they can all stay together, despite adding maybe 10" in one go. I am now
> trying to get most of my tanks single species, apart from the clowns who
> have 6 female platies for company. They dominate the front all the time, not
> afraid, and don't hide if I approach. They come to top to snatch the food as
> it goes in. It has taken time for them to be this confident. Either because
> there are 10 or because they are the dominant/biggest fish in the 65g. I
> would recommend keeping clowns with one other species acting as dither or
> colourful tankmates.It simply works without wondering who gets on with who.
> There is no doubt they take most of the food, another problem solved instead
> of wondering how to get food to them with other fish taking it first, if
> they hide too much. I know they will need a bigger tank one day, but am
> cautious about changing anything at moment. When you look into where fish
> come from, their natural environment, clowns would never bump into some of
> the species we put them with and hope they get along together.Mary
>
>

I'm still not sure that I've actually lost them as I saw one
today....we're still wondering if the Plec is holding them hostage in
his hollow....they didn't turn up to feed tonight so I'm still
worried...the remaining two came and fed enthusiastically from my hand
and I think I have a small chunk out of my thumb right now :-) - but the
ich is real bad on these fish....I've added Protozin again tonight and
am going to maintain daily water changes and treatment but don't hold up
much hope from my experience with this attack. If you could send me the
link for the place you got the RidIch I'd appreciate it - if it's too
late for these it will save any subsequent fish I hope....

Gill

[Gill Passman]

smcclure415 wrote:
> Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
> the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
> 2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
> because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
> only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
> it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
> the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
> it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
> able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
> nothing.
>
> I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
> particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
> repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
>
> Flash forward 1 week...
>
> We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
> happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
> dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
> find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
> another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
> the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
> That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
>
> Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
> :)
>

Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what
I find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also
has a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....

Gill

[Tynk]

Mary Burns wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Gill Passman wrote:
> >> I knew it was a possibility as I just couldn't get rid of the ich....the
> >> other two still have spots but I'm hoping that I can still beat it. I
> >> actually found out last night the probable cause of it's
> >> persistence...there was a small trace of nitrite although the water had
> >> been testing negative but I don't test it everytime before I do a water
> >> change - so I'm suspecting small nitrite traces is why I can't shift it.
> >>
> >> Now, the strange thing is that these were 3 3" Clown Loaches and I
> >> haven't seen them since yesterday morning - they didn't come out for
> >> bloodworm last night...and when I say haven't seen them they are not
> >> anywhere in the tank - I stripped it this morning looking for them...I
> >> find it hard to believe that their tank companions could have eaten them
> >> in such a short time scale and not leave any trace whatsoever...I've
> >> checked behind and under the tank in case they jumped but nothing....
> >>
> >> Tank companions are:-
> >>
> >> 1 Queen Arabesque
> >> 6 Neons
> >> 2 Guppies
> >> 3 Gouramis
> >> 3 Flying Foxes
> >> 3 Boesmani Rainbows
> >> 2 Red Rainbows
> >> numerous Otos
> >>
> >> I'm very sad that I have lost these fish and have vowed not to have any
> >> more until I get the bigger tank.... :-) I will continue to try and beat
> >> the ich on the remaining pair...
> >>
> >> Anyone have any ideas what might have happened to these 3 Clowns?
> >>
> >> Gill
> >
> > Reports of their death maybe premature....spotted one of them
> > briefly....perhaps they are being held prisoner by the plec in "Plec
> > hollow" - it has happened to Clown Loaches before....but definitely no
> > obvious sign of them except this one brief sighting....
> >
> > Just wish we could get the meds here that are available in the US -
> > sigh...just going to try using daily water changes and see if that
> > works....
> >
> > Still amazes me how fish can "vanish" in what is really a small, contained
> > area....
> >
> > Gill
>
>
>
> I'm so sorry you have lost more clowns. I used Kordons Ridich from an online
> supplier and it arrived the next day. It cured them in 6 days and treatment
> is for a further 3 days after last spot. If I had to start again with
> clowns,I would get at least 5 or 7 and after quarantine, move other fish out
> so they can all stay together, despite adding maybe 10" in one go. I am now
> trying to get most of my tanks single species, apart from the clowns who
> have 6 female platies for company. They dominate the front all the time, not
> afraid, and don't hide if I approach. They come to top to snatch the food as
> it goes in. It has taken time for them to be this confident. Either because
> there are 10 or because they are the dominant/biggest fish in the 65g. I
> would recommend keeping clowns with one other species acting as dither or
> colourful tankmates.It simply works without wondering who gets on with who.
> There is no doubt they take most of the food, another problem solved instead
> of wondering how to get food to them with other fish taking it first, if
> they hide too much. I know they will need a bigger tank one day, but am
> cautious about changing anything at moment. When you look into where fish
> come from, their natural environment, clowns would never bump into some of
> the species we put them with and hope they get along together.Mary
Mary Burns wrote:
.. I used Kordons Ridich from an online
> supplier>>

Ridich has the same ingredients in as the product Quick Cure...only
much more costly.
If your online source has Q.C...check the pricing on it. You'll most
likely save a bundle in the future.
I've not ever purchased or priced Q.C. online, so I'm just referring to
the difference between both products in any fish shop.

I too have very happy Clowns. They are always at the front of the
tank,or side...where ever I am. Of course at first they were shy, but
that was easily fixed by hand feeding Bloodworms. Didn't take long at
all for them to be almost obnoxious about wanting attention.
The family was cracking up last night at the 3, 4" clowns I have. The
staple food I feed is Tetra Crisps (of course I feed a varied diet, but
that is the only dry food I feed) and one crips got stuck to the glass
just above the water's surface. All 3 of the Clowns were jockeying in
place trying to grab it above the surface. They kept popping bubbles
and making a ton of noise doing so. The Angelfish and Bettas were of
course wondering what they were doing and were surrounding them as
well.
It was one of the silliest things I've seen these buggers do in a
while.
They not only had the humans in the house all watching them, they had
they're own fishy audience as well. = )~

[Ali Day]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> I too have very happy Clowns. They are always at the front of the
> tank,or side...where ever I am. Of course at first they were shy, but
> that was easily fixed by hand feeding Bloodworms. Didn't take long at
> all for them to be almost obnoxious about wanting attention.

Going to give this a try, as mine as always hidden under their shelf, I drop
the food in then they come barging out and creating pandemonium, but as soon
as I come near the tank again, whoosh, gone.

[Gill Passman]

Gill Passman wrote:
> smcclure415 wrote:
>
>> Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
>> the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
>> 2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
>> because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
>> only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
>> it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
>> the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
>> it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
>> able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
>> nothing.
>>
>> I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
>> particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
>> repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
>>
>> Flash forward 1 week...
>>
>> We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
>> happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
>> dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
>> find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
>> another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
>> the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
>> That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
>>
>> Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
>> :)
>>
>
> Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
> they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what
> I find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also
> has a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....
>
> Gill

Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
suffer and go this way....

Very sad....

Gill

[James Evans]

Sorry to hear about the lost fish, Gill. I'm new to the newsgroup and
was reading this thread with interest. I thought I was the only one that
needed to make daily clown counts. I had a couple weeks go by where I
seemed to have a different number every day... declining. I tore the tank
apart, but couldn't find them. I checked my filters, checked behind the
tank (quite a feat w/ my 75 gallon) and found no trace. I left one ornament
in the tank because it didn't fit through the glass cannopy opening, but I
shook it, turned it over, moved it around, and nothing. About a week later
I took the glass top off to clean it and removed that last ornament.....
surprise surpise.... as soon as it left the water 2 clowns plopped out.
They had crammed there way so far inside that I couldn't see them, but once
taken out of the water, they decided it was best to give up their new hiding
place. Today I have 6 4-5" clown loaches in a 55 gallon tank, and 5 3"
clown loaches in a 75 gallon.

As for the Ich, I agree with the others who have mentioned Quick Cure.
I've used that stuff for about 10 years now and it hasn't let me down yet.

James

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Gill Passman wrote:
>> smcclure415 wrote:
>>
>>> Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
>>> the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
>>> 2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
>>> because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
>>> only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
>>> it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
>>> the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
>>> it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
>>> able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
>>> particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
>>> repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
>>>
>>> Flash forward 1 week...
>>>
>>> We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
>>> happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
>>> dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
>>> find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
>>> another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
>>> the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
>>> That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
>>>
>>> Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
>>> :)
>>>
>>
>> Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
>> they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what I
>> find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also has
>> a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....
>>
>> Gill
>
> Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other two
> missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding and
> didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
> this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
> this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them suffer
> and go this way....
>
> Very sad....
>
> Gill

[Tynk]

Ali Day wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > I too have very happy Clowns. They are always at the front of the
> > tank,or side...where ever I am. Of course at first they were shy, but
> > that was easily fixed by hand feeding Bloodworms. Didn't take long at
> > all for them to be almost obnoxious about wanting attention.
>
> Going to give this a try, as mine as always hidden under their shelf, I drop
> the food in then they come barging out and creating pandemonium, but as soon
> as I come near the tank again, whoosh, gone.

> Going to give this a try, as mine as always hidden under their shelf, I drop
> the food in then they come barging out and creating pandemonium, but as soon
> as I come near the tank again, whoosh, gone.

This is how every Clown was that I had ever kept...for years.
Then, by total accident, I tamed a pair that I had by hand feeding
African Dwarf Froggies.
I like to make sure they get enough to eat, as starvation is their
leading cause of death, and by either using a medicine dropper or
holding the cube in my fingers for the Frogs, the clowns quickly became
so friendly that they come out whenever they saw me.
I lost those to internal parasites that they had when purchased (slowly
got very skinny until dead, ate like pigs). When I got 3 new babies
they were so shy, just like normal.
I first used the dropper with bloodworms in it because they were very
skittish around my hands being in the tank. Their hunger for those
fat, juicy worms took over in no time. They soon got closer and closer
to the dropper until soon they were coming up to the dropper for worms
before I even released any.
That's when I started holding the cube with my hand. They weren't
scared at all.
Now they reccognize me as Goddess of the bloodworms and come begging
anytime I'm even near the tank.
The first pair were only tame to me...these 3 amigos aren't afraid of
anybody in the house and come out no matter who is near the tank.
They're also pretty much goofballs too.
I have young Angels in this tanks, as well as all my female Bettas.
Angels and Bettas will follow their keeper from side to side, no matter
how many times you do it.
Run to one side of the tank....here they come! Wiggling their fiiny
butts off to get there first. Run to the other side of the
tank....there they go....same thing.
My clowns have started to do this as well. It's the cutest thing.
The other night my hubby was talking to me and was standing next to the
tank. Every fish in that 75g tank was up in that one corner where he
was standing, trying to get his attention. I kept giggling as he was
talking to me. He was like, what's so funny?
I said look my your elbo!
He smiled and shook his head. = )
It won't take long for you to tame your Clowns. You will need to have
snacks to do so though.
I get good sized medicine droppers from the local pharmacy. The type
for giving kids liquid meds are perfect. I also write with a marker,
"fish only" on the rubber bulb part so that it doesn't ever get used
for anything else.
Also, if you use these make sure you suck up clear water and turn it
upside down to get any remaining food that got left up in the rubber
bulb end. No matter how much I try not to, it seems to get up in there
and you don't want food left in it to rot.
Happy Clowning. = )~

[Gill Passman]

James Evans wrote:
> Sorry to hear about the lost fish, Gill. I'm new to the newsgroup and
> was reading this thread with interest. I thought I was the only one that
> needed to make daily clown counts. I had a couple weeks go by where I
> seemed to have a different number every day... declining. I tore the tank
> apart, but couldn't find them. I checked my filters, checked behind the
> tank (quite a feat w/ my 75 gallon) and found no trace. I left one ornament
> in the tank because it didn't fit through the glass cannopy opening, but I
> shook it, turned it over, moved it around, and nothing. About a week later
> I took the glass top off to clean it and removed that last ornament.....
> surprise surpise.... as soon as it left the water 2 clowns plopped out.
> They had crammed there way so far inside that I couldn't see them, but once
> taken out of the water, they decided it was best to give up their new hiding
> place. Today I have 6 4-5" clown loaches in a 55 gallon tank, and 5 3"
> clown loaches in a 75 gallon.
>
> As for the Ich, I agree with the others who have mentioned Quick Cure.
> I've used that stuff for about 10 years now and it hasn't let me down yet.
>
> James
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>>smcclure415 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
>>>>the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
>>>>2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
>>>>because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
>>>>only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
>>>>it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
>>>>the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
>>>>it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
>>>>able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
>>>>nothing.
>>>>
>>>>I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
>>>>particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
>>>>repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
>>>>
>>>>Flash forward 1 week...
>>>>
>>>>We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
>>>>happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
>>>>dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
>>>>find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
>>>>another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
>>>>the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
>>>>That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
>>>>
>>>>Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
>>>>:)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
>>>they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what I
>>>find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also has
>>>a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other two
>>missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding and
>>didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
>>this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
>>this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them suffer
>>and go this way....
>>
>>Very sad....
>>
>>Gill
>
>
>
Thanks for your kind words. Sadly, it wasn't just ich that the Clown
Loaches had - they also had Velvet, and although the Protozin should
have treated both it didn't. Right now I have 3 Clown Loaches accounted
for (dead :-( ). One I know is in a piece of driftwood hollowed out by
the Plec...I'm guessing the other one is in there as well but don't know
for sure...I don't know if they are dead or alive, but these were the
two that showed the best signs of recovering earlier....I can't take the
log out right now because the Plec is firmly wedged in it. It's going to
be a two person operation as it won't fit through the opening and
obviously I don't want to kill the Plec by taking him out of the water.

It saddens me a lot. These Clowns were always outgoing and never had the
"newbie" shyness that I've seen before....my thumb is still sore from
where one of the now departed Clowns got over enthusiastic about the
frozen bloodworm and nibbled my finger by mistake.....

Right now I'm trying to ensure that I don't lose the rest of my
fish....so far I've lost one platy, two neons (at least) and two
guppies....all of the others seem healthy with no sign of ich or velvet
(maybe the protozin did some good)....I've done a 30% change tonight,
removed the carbon I put in to get free of the Protozin and have added a
more specific Velvet treatment....fingers are crossed....

I can't imagine ever having this tank without Clowns but right now I
need to ensure the health of the others...and find the remaining two
Clowns whatever their state....

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Tynk wrote:
> Ali Day wrote:
>
>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>
>>
>>>I too have very happy Clowns. They are always at the front of the
>>>tank,or side...where ever I am. Of course at first they were shy, but
>>>that was easily fixed by hand feeding Bloodworms. Didn't take long at
>>>all for them to be almost obnoxious about wanting attention.
>>
>>Going to give this a try, as mine as always hidden under their shelf, I drop
>>the food in then they come barging out and creating pandemonium, but as soon
>>as I come near the tank again, whoosh, gone.
>
>
>>Going to give this a try, as mine as always hidden under their shelf, I drop
>>the food in then they come barging out and creating pandemonium, but as soon
>>as I come near the tank again, whoosh, gone.
>
>
> This is how every Clown was that I had ever kept...for years.
> Then, by total accident, I tamed a pair that I had by hand feeding
> African Dwarf Froggies.
> I like to make sure they get enough to eat, as starvation is their
> leading cause of death, and by either using a medicine dropper or
> holding the cube in my fingers for the Frogs, the clowns quickly became
> so friendly that they come out whenever they saw me.
> I lost those to internal parasites that they had when purchased (slowly
> got very skinny until dead, ate like pigs). When I got 3 new babies
> they were so shy, just like normal.
> I first used the dropper with bloodworms in it because they were very
> skittish around my hands being in the tank. Their hunger for those
> fat, juicy worms took over in no time. They soon got closer and closer
> to the dropper until soon they were coming up to the dropper for worms
> before I even released any.
> That's when I started holding the cube with my hand. They weren't
> scared at all.
> Now they reccognize me as Goddess of the bloodworms and come begging
> anytime I'm even near the tank.
> The first pair were only tame to me...these 3 amigos aren't afraid of
> anybody in the house and come out no matter who is near the tank.
> They're also pretty much goofballs too.
> I have young Angels in this tanks, as well as all my female Bettas.
> Angels and Bettas will follow their keeper from side to side, no matter
> how many times you do it.
> Run to one side of the tank....here they come! Wiggling their fiiny
> butts off to get there first. Run to the other side of the
> tank....there they go....same thing.
> My clowns have started to do this as well. It's the cutest thing.
> The other night my hubby was talking to me and was standing next to the
> tank. Every fish in that 75g tank was up in that one corner where he
> was standing, trying to get his attention. I kept giggling as he was
> talking to me. He was like, what's so funny?
> I said look my your elbo!
> He smiled and shook his head. = )
> It won't take long for you to tame your Clowns. You will need to have
> snacks to do so though.
> I get good sized medicine droppers from the local pharmacy. The type
> for giving kids liquid meds are perfect. I also write with a marker,
> "fish only" on the rubber bulb part so that it doesn't ever get used
> for anything else.
> Also, if you use these make sure you suck up clear water and turn it
> upside down to get any remaining food that got left up in the rubber
> bulb end. No matter how much I try not to, it seems to get up in there
> and you don't want food left in it to rot.
> Happy Clowning. = )~
>

The sad thing about these Clowns is that they were so tame right from
the beginning....always at the front of the tank, always dancing and
always taking bloodworm from my hand. Sadly, I now believe I have lost
all five of them - three dead and two awol...a combination of Ich and
Velvet which was way too much for them to cope with :-( I'm starting to
lose other fish from the tank now - neons, guppies and one juv platy....
:-( I've treated the tank with a Velvet specific med from Interpet
tonight after two days of carbon in the filter to pull out the Protozin
- hopefully this will stem the tide of losses....

On a brighter note, I know exactly what you mean about fish trying to
attract attention. My bettas, Bob and Boris, in the kitchen are such
tarts....I have friends round and I can be making some coffee and we are
standing chatting...gradually the conversation tails off as they are
drawn towards Bob and Boris - even caught some of them chatting to "the
boys" - and these are people that I would never even consider to be
fishy....

Gill

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> James Evans wrote:
<snip>
> Right now I'm trying to ensure that I don't lose the rest of my
> fish....so far I've lost one platy, two neons (at least) and two
> guppies....all of the others seem healthy with no sign of ich or velvet
> (maybe the protozin did some good)....I've done a 30% change tonight,
> removed the carbon I put in to get free of the Protozin and have added
> a more specific Velvet treatment....fingers are crossed....
>
> I can't imagine ever having this tank without Clowns but right now I
> need to ensure the health of the others...and find the remaining two
> Clowns whatever their state....
>
> Gill


I wonder if a UV lamp is effective on velvet. I would imagine yes.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Tynk]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
> > smcclure415 wrote:
> >
> >> Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
> >> the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
> >> 2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
> >> because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
> >> only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
> >> it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
> >> the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
> >> it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
> >> able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
> >> nothing.
> >>
> >> I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
> >> particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
> >> repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
> >>
> >> Flash forward 1 week...
> >>
> >> We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
> >> happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
> >> dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
> >> find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
> >> another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
> >> the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
> >> That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
> >>
> >> Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
> >> :)
> >>
> >
> > Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
> > they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what
> > I find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also
> > has a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....
> >
> > Gill
>
> Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
> two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
> and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
> this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
> this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
> suffer and go this way....
>
> Very sad....
>
> Gill
>
> Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
> two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
> and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
> this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
> this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
> suffer and go this way....
>
> Very sad....
>

= ( Sorry to hear that, sweetie.
Clowns are so sensitive to parasites, and even more sensitive to the
meds used to kill the little buggers. I know how frustating it can be.
**Hugs**

[Liz McGuire]

FWIW, tonight I bought a book on fish health - it seems good (if
nothing else, the clear photos are worth it), but I'm not experienced
enough to know. However, it says that UV is effective on "pathogens
which are in the water, and not usually against those which are
attached to the fish"

Gill, if you like, I can report back on what the book says about
Velvet.

The book is:

Manual of Fish Health
Dr. Chris Andrews, Adrian Exell & Dr. Neville Carrington
Published by Firefly
Copyright 2003
ISBN: 1-55297-824-9

Liz


NetMax wrote:
>
> I wonder if a UV lamp is effective on velvet. I would imagine yes.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk

[Gill Passman]

Liz McGuire wrote:
> FWIW, tonight I bought a book on fish health - it seems good (if
> nothing else, the clear photos are worth it), but I'm not experienced
> enough to know. However, it says that UV is effective on "pathogens
> which are in the water, and not usually against those which are
> attached to the fish"
>
> Gill, if you like, I can report back on what the book says about
> Velvet.
>
> The book is:
>
> Manual of Fish Health
> Dr. Chris Andrews, Adrian Exell & Dr. Neville Carrington
> Published by Firefly
> Copyright 2003
> ISBN: 1-55297-824-9
>
> Liz
>
>
> NetMax wrote:
>
>>I wonder if a UV lamp is effective on velvet. I would imagine yes.
>>--
>>www.NetMax.tk

Thanks....

[Ali Day]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ali Day wrote:
>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>

Tynk, thanks for the great info, will help loads.

Quick question though, I use frozen bloodworm, and usually I dump the cube
in some water to de-frost before I but it in the water. When you say cube,
are you using frozen or freeze dried?

thx

[Dick]

On 23 Nov 2005 20:39:37 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:

>
>Gill Passman wrote:
>> Gill Passman wrote:
>> > smcclure415 wrote:
>> >
>> >> Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
>> >> the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
>> >> 2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
>> >> because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
>> >> only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
>> >> it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
>> >> the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
>> >> it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
>> >> able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
>> >> nothing.
>> >>
>> >> I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
>> >> particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
>> >> repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
>> >>
>> >> Flash forward 1 week...
>> >>
>> >> We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
>> >> happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
>> >> dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
>> >> find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
>> >> another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
>> >> the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
>> >> That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
>> >>
>> >> Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
>> >> :)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
>> > they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what
>> > I find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also
>> > has a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....
>> >
>> > Gill
>>
>> Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
>> two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
>> and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
>> this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
>> this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
>> suffer and go this way....
>>
>> Very sad....
>>
>> Gill
>>
>> Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
>> two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
>> and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
>> this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
>> this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
>> suffer and go this way....
>>
>> Very sad....
>>
>
>= ( Sorry to hear that, sweetie.
>Clowns are so sensitive to parasites, and even more sensitive to the
>meds used to kill the little buggers. I know how frustating it can be.
>**Hugs**

This thread amazes me. I have a total of 11 Clowns in 3 tanks ranging
from 2 in a 10 gallon tank, 3 in a 29 gallon and 6 in a 75 gallon
tank.

Other than the 6 that arrived with ich and one "runt" the other 11
have not had illness or death. It has nothing to do with choosing
healthy fish as I never see my fish until they arrive at my front
door.

I know how sad it is to try and try to treat illness in my fish.
Since I realized that those fish that did have health problems did not
pass those problems to other fish, I have let nature take it course.
There have been recoveries along with the inevitable death. I just
dread playing "doctor!"

dick

[Tynk]

Ali Day wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Ali Day wrote:
> >> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >>
>
> Tynk, thanks for the great info, will help loads.
>
> Quick question though, I use frozen bloodworm, and usually I dump the cube
> in some water to de-frost before I but it in the water. When you say cube,
> are you using frozen or freeze dried?
>
> thx
> Quick question though, I use frozen bloodworm, and usually I dump the cube
> in some water to de-frost before I but it in the water. When you say cube,
> are you using frozen or freeze dried?
>
I never use freeze dried bloodworms. Too much freeze dried foods can
cause consitpation in fish, and plus they'd rather the frozen or live
anyway.
Now when I am feeding by hand, I hold the frozen cube, or chunk broken
off a flat pack, hold it in between my fingers and shoosh it around
under the surface.
This thaws the worms (I do this with Brine as well) and they fly off
the cube easily.
When I use the dropper, I used to thaw it in a bit if tank water in a
Dixie type cup. Now I use a Rx medicine container that I washed out
very well. No more wasting paper cups. = )
I prefer the short, wide container to the typical one (taller and
skinny).
I have a lot of fish to feed and the wider ones work better for me.

[Gill Passman]

Dick wrote:
> On 23 Nov 2005 20:39:37 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:
>
>
>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>>smcclure415 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Disappearing loaches... haha, been there, done that. When we first put
>>>>>the CL's in the brand new big tank, we had one disappear on us. We had
>>>>>2, and one day one of them just vanished. The Hubby wasn't concerned
>>>>>because in his previous aquarium life he had one botia disappear and he
>>>>>only found it when he was rearranging the rocks in the tank... he heard
>>>>>it flopping around in its hole in the rock, that he had removed from
>>>>>the tank. I think that was his only sighting of that fish after he put
>>>>>it in the tank... Ok back to the 2 loaches... after 2 days of not being
>>>>>able to find him, I tore the tank apart, checked and removed rocks...
>>>>>nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>>I found him in the output tube of the filter. We had turned that
>>>>>particular valve off because of a water leak (incidently leak is
>>>>>repaired, and output is covered with the remains of a net.
>>>>>
>>>>>Flash forward 1 week...
>>>>>
>>>>>We get 4 brand new CL's to go with the remaining old one. Everyone is
>>>>>happy, until I only see 4 for breakfast. That night I see only 4 for
>>>>>dinner. Paranoia (sp?) sets in and I tear the tank apart, and I we can
>>>>>find are 4 CL's. The next morning, still lamenting the loss of yet
>>>>>another, I drop breakfast in, and go to do something else. Pretty soon
>>>>>the hubby says "Hey, there are 5 loaches" sure enough he was right.
>>>>>That one has rightfully earned the name Houdini.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's hoping you find David (Copperfield) along with Penn and Teller
>>>>>:)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Strange you say that because hubby already asked if there was any chance
>>>>they had swum up the outlet....I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what
>>>>I find....might also explain the missing yoyos from my son's tank (also
>>>>has a fluval external) - happy days dismantling filters in the morning....
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>>
>>>Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
>>>two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
>>>and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
>>>this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
>>>this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
>>>suffer and go this way....
>>>
>>>Very sad....
>>>
>>>Gill
>>>
>>>Found the first body tonight - I'm devastated :-( Have seen the other
>>>two missing ones today but the two more confident ones are now in hiding
>>>and didn't feed tonight - I just hope that my remaining 4 will get over
>>>this...there is nothing more that I can do than keep treating
>>>this....Clowns are one of my fav fish and I can't stand to see them
>>>suffer and go this way....
>>>
>>>Very sad....
>>>
>>
>>= ( Sorry to hear that, sweetie.
>>Clowns are so sensitive to parasites, and even more sensitive to the
>>meds used to kill the little buggers. I know how frustating it can be.
>>**Hugs**
>
>
> This thread amazes me. I have a total of 11 Clowns in 3 tanks ranging
> from 2 in a 10 gallon tank, 3 in a 29 gallon and 6 in a 75 gallon
> tank.
>
> Other than the 6 that arrived with ich and one "runt" the other 11
> have not had illness or death. It has nothing to do with choosing
> healthy fish as I never see my fish until they arrive at my front
> door.
>
> I know how sad it is to try and try to treat illness in my fish.
> Since I realized that those fish that did have health problems did not
> pass those problems to other fish, I have let nature take it course.
> There have been recoveries along with the inevitable death. I just
> dread playing "doctor!"
>
> dick

It would be interesting to know if the fish sold over in the States come
from wildly different sources to those sold in the UK. One of the places
I go to says that their Clowns are farm bred (I though they didn't breed
in captivity but obviously that has changed). I also see a lot of
variation in size of the Clowns on sale which also leads me to suspect
that they come from different suppliers. I've heard other people report
that there are fewer problems with Clowns purchased in the USA - so it
does make me wonder.

This time I was very foolish in buying two from an untried source which
led to the infection of my other three - they looked healthy at the time
but when I went back a few days later there were no Clowns at all on
sale (unusual for anywhere to sell that many Clowns in a couple of days
around here) so I wonder what was actually going on. I bought two bettas
at the same time that showed early signs of ich after a day or so, which
I was able to jump on right away and they are just fine....

I know other people who have bought Clowns locally only to lose them
after a short space of time...certainly in my area it seems to be a very
hit and miss sort of thing and I'm fed up with the heartache as these
fish have such great personalities that I get quite upset when I lose
them....

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Tynk wrote:
> Ali Day wrote:
>
>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>
>>>Ali Day wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>>>
>>
>>Tynk, thanks for the great info, will help loads.
>>
>>Quick question though, I use frozen bloodworm, and usually I dump the cube
>>in some water to de-frost before I but it in the water. When you say cube,
>>are you using frozen or freeze dried?
>>
>>thx
>>Quick question though, I use frozen bloodworm, and usually I dump the cube
>>in some water to de-frost before I but it in the water. When you say cube,
>>are you using frozen or freeze dried?
>>
>
> I never use freeze dried bloodworms. Too much freeze dried foods can
> cause consitpation in fish, and plus they'd rather the frozen or live
> anyway.
> Now when I am feeding by hand, I hold the frozen cube, or chunk broken
> off a flat pack, hold it in between my fingers and shoosh it around
> under the surface.
> This thaws the worms (I do this with Brine as well) and they fly off
> the cube easily.
> When I use the dropper, I used to thaw it in a bit if tank water in a
> Dixie type cup. Now I use a Rx medicine container that I washed out
> very well. No more wasting paper cups. = )
> I prefer the short, wide container to the typical one (taller and
> skinny).
> I have a lot of fish to feed and the wider ones work better for me.
>
When I feed frozen I generally, like Tynk mentions, hold it in my
fingers and rub it til it thaws...probably why I sometimes get my
fingers nibbled :-). The only problem that I have found is that I need
to keep moving the cube around otherwise the bolder, greedier fish would
get it all and there would be none left for the others....

Gill

[smcclure415]

Is it possible to have fish shipped in from the states? There are many
reputable online fish sales companies (liveaquaria.com is the first to
come to mind). Or is there a quarantine issue that prevents you from
buying from the states and having it shipped in. I realize that the
shipping costs would be a bit expensive, but if it means getting
quality stock, it might be the way to go.

Good luck with da fishies

[Gill Passman]

smcclure415 wrote:
> Is it possible to have fish shipped in from the states? There are many
> reputable online fish sales companies (liveaquaria.com is the first to
> come to mind). Or is there a quarantine issue that prevents you from
> buying from the states and having it shipped in. I realize that the
> shipping costs would be a bit expensive, but if it means getting
> quality stock, it might be the way to go.
>
> Good luck with da fishies
>

I don't know about quarantine issues...afterall most LFS's here import
their fish....my main worry would be the stress of the journey - having
discussed with one LFS their policy of acclimatization...they believe
that the first few days are the most critical and so therefore will not
sell fish for around a week after getting them in stock. I would worry
about the trauma on just a few fish being shipped across from the states
and their subsequent journey here.....

Quality varies here but I have made some very good purchases - I also
went through a phase of high mortality rates of new purchases - had it
out with the place in question and got credit (not the same as actually
getting the fish I wanted or the pain of seeing them getting sick or
dying for no reason). I think the best bet is to go back to sticking to
just two outlets (both OATA registered) where although I've had the odd
problem I know that they take good care of the fish and are regularly
inspected....

Thanks for the thought
Gill

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Liz McGuire wrote:
>> FWIW, tonight I bought a book on fish health - it seems good (if
>> nothing else, the clear photos are worth it), but I'm not experienced
>> enough to know. However, it says that UV is effective on "pathogens
>> which are in the water, and not usually against those which are
>> attached to the fish"
>>
>> Gill, if you like, I can report back on what the book says about
>> Velvet.
>>
>> The book is:
>>
>> Manual of Fish Health
>> Dr. Chris Andrews, Adrian Exell & Dr. Neville Carrington
>> Published by Firefly
>> Copyright 2003
>> ISBN: 1-55297-824-9
>>
>> Liz
>>
>>
>> NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>I wonder if a UV lamp is effective on velvet. I would imagine yes.
>>>--
>>>www.NetMax.tk
>
> Thanks....

From me too. UV is only effective on an organism which has a
free-swimming stage, like Ich. I'm not familiar enough with velvet, but
I am familiar with the consequences of velvet on Clown loaches :(.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz McGuire]

And, according to this book, on the smaller parasites, like ich, but
not on larger ones like flukes.

FWIW,

Liz


NetMax wrote:
>
> From me too. UV is only effective on an organism which has a
> free-swimming stage, like Ich.

[Dick]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:47:13 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>smcclure415 wrote:
>> Is it possible to have fish shipped in from the states? There are many
>> reputable online fish sales companies (liveaquaria.com is the first to
>> come to mind). Or is there a quarantine issue that prevents you from
>> buying from the states and having it shipped in. I realize that the
>> shipping costs would be a bit expensive, but if it means getting
>> quality stock, it might be the way to go.
>>
>> Good luck with da fishies
>>
>
>I don't know about quarantine issues...afterall most LFS's here import
>their fish....my main worry would be the stress of the journey - having
>discussed with one LFS their policy of acclimatization...they believe
>that the first few days are the most critical and so therefore will not
>sell fish for around a week after getting them in stock. I would worry
>about the trauma on just a few fish being shipped across from the states
>and their subsequent journey here.....

Gill, I wouldn't worry about the stress. I would guess the most
stress is taking off and landing. The fish I buy go through such
stresses with no problems. Airplanes have altered the world.

The quarantine problem is the shpper's problem. If they accept the
order, I would suspect they know the shipping rules.

dick
>
>Quality varies here but I have made some very good purchases - I also
>went through a phase of high mortality rates of new purchases - had it
>out with the place in question and got credit (not the same as actually
>getting the fish I wanted or the pain of seeing them getting sick or
>dying for no reason). I think the best bet is to go back to sticking to
>just two outlets (both OATA registered) where although I've had the odd
>problem I know that they take good care of the fish and are regularly
>inspected....
>
>Thanks for the thought
>Gill

[NetMax]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:47:13 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>>smcclure415 wrote:
>>> Is it possible to have fish shipped in from the states? There are
>>> many
>>> reputable online fish sales companies (liveaquaria.com is the first
>>> to
>>> come to mind). Or is there a quarantine issue that prevents you from
>>> buying from the states and having it shipped in. I realize that the
>>> shipping costs would be a bit expensive, but if it means getting
>>> quality stock, it might be the way to go.
>>>
>>> Good luck with da fishies
>>>
>>
>>I don't know about quarantine issues...afterall most LFS's here import
>>their fish....my main worry would be the stress of the journey - having
>>discussed with one LFS their policy of acclimatization...they believe
>>that the first few days are the most critical and so therefore will not
>>sell fish for around a week after getting them in stock. I would worry
>>about the trauma on just a few fish being shipped across from the
>>states
>>and their subsequent journey here.....
>
> Gill, I wouldn't worry about the stress. I would guess the most
> stress is taking off and landing. The fish I buy go through such
> stresses with no problems. Airplanes have altered the world.
>
> The quarantine problem is the shpper's problem. If they accept the
> order, I would suspect they know the shipping rules.
>
> dick
>>
>>Quality varies here but I have made some very good purchases - I also
>>went through a phase of high mortality rates of new purchases - had it
>>out with the place in question and got credit (not the same as actually
>>getting the fish I wanted or the pain of seeing them getting sick or
>>dying for no reason). I think the best bet is to go back to sticking to
>>just two outlets (both OATA registered) where although I've had the odd
>>problem I know that they take good care of the fish and are regularly
>>inspected....
>>
>>Thanks for the thought
>>Gill


While fish can be put into a situation where they would feel anxious, I
do not think the word 'stress' has anything to do with that condition,
and is not comparable to human 'stress'. Stress as applied to fish is
physical, the state of dealing with toxins in the water, or water
parameter changes (temperature, hardness etc).

I suspect landing and taking off in an airplane while underwater would
actually be very nice (or at least a non-issue to fish). They are
probably completely oblivious to the slight difference in air pressure
which we feel in our inner ear. jmo
--
www.NetMax.tk