Sand-sifting

[Don Geddis]

I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown but
some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting organisms,
such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help control
this algae growth on the sand.

Anyone have any experience with this, and any recommendations? Do you prefer
the starfish, the cucumber, or some other creature?
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
particularly in women. Chief among them is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL
convertible. -- PJ O'Rourke.

[Richard Reynolds]

> I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown but
> some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting organisms,
> such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help control
> this algae growth on the sand.

I wouldnt recomend starfish, however, you have left out some information.

why is there algae on your sand (high nutrients ???)!
how old is the tank?
what are your water paramiters?
whats in there already?
how big is your tank?


--
Richard Reynolds

[Joe V.]

I had a horrible, horrible time with brown algae, until I removed all the
bio-balls from my wet/dry pump. On further advice from this newsgroup, I
also removed all my sponge filters.

I haven't seen any brown algae since ... the key element that is gone from
my tank is nitrates, and this is what the non-bio filters were actually
adding.

I guess my recommendation is re-check your filteration system, and also test
the water to make sure nitrates, phosphates, etc. are not too high.

"Don Geddis" > wrote in message
...
> I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown
but
> some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting
organisms,
> such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help control
> this algae growth on the sand.
>
> Anyone have any experience with this, and any recommendations? Do you
prefer
> the starfish, the cucumber, or some other creature?
>
__________________________________________________ __________________________
___
> Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
> There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
> particularly in women. Chief among them is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL
> convertible. -- PJ O'Rourke.

Ive read several others who've suggested removing the bio-balls and filters
.....Ive removed the filters but what,if anything,is used to replace the
bio-balls?just curious
"Joe V." > wrote in message
...
> I had a horrible, horrible time with brown algae, until I removed all the
> bio-balls from my wet/dry pump. On further advice from this newsgroup, I
> also removed all my sponge filters.
>
> I haven't seen any brown algae since ... the key element that is gone from
> my tank is nitrates, and this is what the non-bio filters were actually
> adding.
>
> I guess my recommendation is re-check your filteration system, and also
test
> the water to make sure nitrates, phosphates, etc. are not too high.
>
> "Don Geddis" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown
> but
> > some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting
> organisms,
> > such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help
control
> > this algae growth on the sand.
> >
> > Anyone have any experience with this, and any recommendations? Do you
> prefer
> > the starfish, the cucumber, or some other creature?
> >
>
__________________________________________________ __________________________
> ___
> > Don Geddis
> http://reef.geddis.org/
> > There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
> > particularly in women. Chief among them is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL
> > convertible. -- PJ O'Rourke.
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

More Live Rock.

Marc


wrote:

> Ive read several others who've suggested removing the bio-balls and filters
> ....Ive removed the filters but what,if anything,is used to replace the
> bio-balls?just curious
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Chris Taylor]

Either a Blue Cheek Goby, or Orange Spotted Goby will sift sand. They are
amusing characters but throw sand everywhere, including rocks which lie on
the lower portions of your tank. Any inverts on the lower layers may
suffer... Otherwise they fit in well with other tank inhabitants and are
largely peaceful.

I have a blue cheek goby who is pretty active and very full of himself. He
cleaned my tank up within 2 days and continues to do 'the gardening'.


Chris


"Don Geddis" > wrote in message
...
> I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown
but
> some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting
organisms,
> such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help control
> this algae growth on the sand.
>
> Anyone have any experience with this, and any recommendations? Do you
prefer
> the starfish, the cucumber, or some other creature?
>
__________________________________________________ __________________________
___
> Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
> There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
> particularly in women. Chief among them is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL
> convertible. -- PJ O'Rourke.

[Joe V.]

Currently, I have nothing ... the live rock/sand in the tank does
everything. My goal is to use live rock, sand and macroalgae in the wet/dry
compartment as well. Although it will never look as great or professional as
Marc's (http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/sump.html), my hope is that I
can get close :)


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> More Live Rock.
>
> Marc
>
>
> wrote:
>
> > Ive read several others who've suggested removing the bio-balls and
filters
> > ....Ive removed the filters but what,if anything,is used to replace the
> > bio-balls?just curious
> >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Rod]

Blue cheek gobies are fine for tanks that have a shallow sand bed that is for
asthetics only, but many folks in this group use a deep sand bed to aid in
their filtration/denitrifacation, and also use a deep sand bed as a source of
food for the corals.. A blue cheek goby will sift the sand for food and deplete
the sand bed (in short time) of all the little critters that make it function
properly. Usually after all the necessary little critters have been eaten, the
goby will starve.

Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

>
>Either a Blue Cheek Goby, or Orange Spotted Goby will sift sand. They are
>amusing characters but throw sand everywhere, including rocks which lie on
>the lower portions of your tank. Any inverts on the lower layers may
>suffer... Otherwise they fit in well with other tank inhabitants and are
>largely peaceful.
>
>I have a blue cheek goby who is pretty active and very full of himself. He
>cleaned my tank up within 2 days and continues to do 'the gardening'.
>
>
>Chris
>
>
>"Don Geddis" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown
>but
>> some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting
>organisms,
>> such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help control
>> this algae growth on the sand.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with this, and any recommendations? Do you
>prefer
>> the starfish, the cucumber, or some other creature?
>>
>__________________________________________________ __________________________
>___
>> Don Geddis
>http://reef.geddis.org/
>> There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
>> particularly in women. Chief among them is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL
>> convertible. -- PJ O'Rourke.

Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Ct Midnite]

So what exactly is the harm of Bio balls? Are they just less
efficient than live rock or do they cause a problem?

Ct Midnite

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 07:33:04 GMT, Marc Levenson >
wrote:

>More Live Rock.
>
>Marc
>
>
wrote:
>
>> Ive read several others who've suggested removing the bio-balls and filters
>> ....Ive removed the filters but what,if anything,is used to replace the
>> bio-balls?just curious
>>

[Ct Midnite]

I bought a yellow cucumber for one tank and 2 tiger cucumbers for
another. They have made quite a difference in my tanks.

Of the two different kinds I'd take the yellow if you can find them or
one of each. The tigers come out front very seldom and the yellow is
almost always out front working. He's kind of an ugly fellow but man
does he keep at it.

Trouble is I've never seen the yellow ones again. The lfs had this
fellow around for a long time and no one would buy him because he was
so ugly. But he was $12 bucks and I needed something so. And now I'm
glad I did.

Some one correct me if I'm wrong but these seem to just ingest the
very top levels of the sand so I don't think they would do much harm
to the sand dwellers.

Ct Midnite


On 07 Dec 2003 16:08:12 -0800, Don Geddis > wrote:

>I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown but
>some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting organisms,
>such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can help control
>this algae growth on the sand.
>
>Anyone have any experience with this, and any recommendations? Do you prefer
>the starfish, the cucumber, or some other creature?
>__________________________________________________ _____________________________
>Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
>There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
>particularly in women. Chief among them is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL
>convertible. -- PJ O'Rourke.

[Marc Levenson]

The sole function of bioballs is to create nitrates, which is a problem for reef
tanks or tanks with invertebrates.

Marc


Ct Midnite wrote:

> So what exactly is the harm of Bio balls? Are they just less
> efficient than live rock or do they cause a problem?
>
> Ct Midnite
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Don Geddis]

I wrote:
> > I'm getting a lot of algae growth on my live sand, mostly an ugly brown
> > but some green and other colors. I've heard that various sand-sifting
> > organisms, such as a sand-sifting starfish or sand-sifting cucumber, can
> > help control this algae growth on the sand.

"Richard Reynolds" > writes:
> I wouldnt recomend starfish

Can you say why not?

> however, you have left out some information.
> why is there algae on your sand (high nutrients ???)!

I don't know why. That's part of the problem. I recently replaced my MH light
bulb, so it's likely that there's a lot better/more light than there used to
be. But that's about it.

> how old is the tank?

1 year.

> what are your water paramiters?

Temp: 80-84 (daily low-high)
Salinity: 1.0255/34.5
Ammonia: ~0.1
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: ~2
Calcium: 450
Alkalinity: 2.25
pH: 8.4

> whats in there already?

Lots of live sand & live rock, with a protein skimmer (CPR BakPak2) but no
other filtration.

Purple tang, coral beauty dwarf angel, maroon clown, 3 firefish gobies,
mandarin dragonet, fire shrimp, 3 rose anemones, a bunch of corals, thorny
starfish...i.e., lots of stuff.

> how big is your tank?

55 gallons.

Does any of this help figure out why I have a lot of algae growth?
And how does it influence the thought of getting a sand-sifting organism?

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
If you hear an onion ring, answer it.

[CapFusion]

"Ct Midnite" <mreef2.10.muffin@spamgourmet.(nospam)com> wrote in message
...
> So what exactly is the harm of Bio balls? Are they just less
> efficient than live rock or do they cause a problem?
>
> Ct Midnite
Actually...Too efficient, especially in "Wet/Dry" application. Better to get
a good PS instead.

CapFusion,...

[Richard Reynolds]

> > I wouldnt recomend starfish
> Can you say why not?

I can list a few, some have been listed recently in current posts, generally they are not
the algae eaters that they have been given the reputation of having, also they are very
opterunistic, another thing you have an issue with your tank, I wouldnt recomend adding to
your bio load to fix it.

> > however, you have left out some information.
> > why is there algae on your sand (high nutrients ???)!
>
> I don't know why. That's part of the problem. I recently replaced my MH light
> bulb, so it's likely that there's a lot better/more light than there used to
> be. But that's about it.

the MH replacement alone could very well be the cause, if its the only cause then ignore
it itll go away, if not keep working

> > how old is the tank?
>
> 1 year.
>
> > what are your water paramiters?
>
> Temp: 80-84 (daily low-high)
> Salinity: 1.0255/34.5
> Ammonia: ~0.1
> Nitrite: 0
> Nitrate: ~2
> Calcium: 450
> Alkalinity: 2.25
> pH: 8.4

I dont like that you posted an ammonia level. this is not good, though not high, and
probibly not the end of the world, id test again, and see if you can verify the level.
otherwise from what I can see, your MH is suspect.


> > whats in there already?
>
> Lots of live sand & live rock, with a protein skimmer (CPR BakPak2) but no
> other filtration.

this is plenty of filtration, though you might wanna add a powerhead or change the angle
of one already in there, to accelerate nitrification in the event that your ammonia levels
are really registering <> 0


> Purple tang, coral beauty dwarf angel, maroon clown, 3 firefish gobies,
> mandarin dragonet, fire shrimp, 3 rose anemones, a bunch of corals, thorny
> starfish...i.e., lots of stuff.

hehe a starfish :)

be careful the tang police are gona beat down your door :)

otherwise i dont see a problem from that.


> > how big is your tank?
>
> 55 gallons.
>
> Does any of this help figure out why I have a lot of algae growth?

as pointed out kinda. you could test your phosphate levels, but Id lean towards a new MH
bulb being the cause, no need to fix.

> And how does it influence the thought of getting a sand-sifting organism?
I think i covered this enough, if not i can provide a number of more reasons to avoid the
starfish, but you may recall from my origional reply that I didnt discourage you from
getting any other sand sifting organism just the starfish.



--
Richard Reynolds

[Don Geddis]

"Richard Reynolds" > writes:
> the MH replacement alone could very well be the cause, if its the only
> cause then ignore it itll go away

So if the lights suddenly become much brighter, then you would expect a period
of greater algae growth, that drops off by itself? How long would you expect
to see this growth? (Months?) Why does it stop?

> hehe a starfish :)
> be careful the tang police are gona beat down your door :)

I didn't know about this. Are tangs not supposed to be compatible with
starfish?

> you could test your phosphate levels, but Id lean towards a new MH
> bulb being the cause, no need to fix.

OK. How long should I expect to wait before it fixes itself?

> I think i covered this enough, if not i can provide a number of more
> reasons to avoid the starfish, but you may recall from my origional reply
> that I didnt discourage you from getting any other sand sifting organism
> just the starfish.

OK, maybe I'll get a cucumber then.


Thanks,

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
To my daughter Leonora without whose never failing sympathy and encouragement
this book would have been completed in half the time. -- P.G. Wodehouse
-- [Quoted in Pepper's _The Wit and Wisdom of the 20th Century_,
p.199, #14]

[Richard Reynolds]

> So if the lights suddenly become much brighter, then you would expect a period
> of greater algae growth, that drops off by itself? How long would you expect
> to see this growth? (Months?) Why does it stop?

its not uncommon for this to happen, its also not uncommon when you replace bulbs. it can
take a few weeks, generally not long though. the ballance of the tank is off, once it
adjusts it will no longer have algae.

a number of factors contribute, algae is fairly easy to grow. pods have to catch up so do
snails ....

> > hehe a starfish :)
> > be careful the tang police are gona beat down your door :)
>
> I didn't know about this. Are tangs not supposed to be compatible with
> starfish?

woops. nope you trimed a few more lines, you have a 55 and a tang, its not PC, the
starfish was because you already have one.

> OK. How long should I expect to wait before it fixes itself?

couple weeks max. you can probibly help it along a little by limiting the light time a
little, if it seems to be out of control.


--
Richard Reynolds

[Dave]

"Don Geddis" > wrote in message
...

> > whats in there already?
>
> Lots of live sand & live rock, with a protein skimmer (CPR BakPak2) but no
> other filtration.
>
> Purple tang, coral beauty dwarf angel, maroon clown, 3 firefish gobies,
> mandarin dragonet, fire shrimp, 3 rose anemones, a bunch of corals, thorny
> starfish...i.e., lots of stuff.
>
> > how big is your tank?
>
> 55 gallons.

Anyone consider this tank to be overstocked?

As a newbie, I'm not stating it is, but I'm trying to figure out why my own
tank is having such a problem with derbesia. I have a sailfin tang, a
maroon clown, an engineer goby and an algae-eating blenny. A couple of
folks have told me my tank is overstocked. Thanks.

[Richard Reynolds]

> > Purple tang, coral beauty dwarf angel, maroon clown, 3 firefish gobies,
> > mandarin dragonet, fire shrimp, 3 rose anemones, a bunch of corals, thorny
> > starfish...i.e., lots of stuff.
> > 55 gallons.

> Anyone consider this tank to be overstocked?

not really

even a large tang wouldnt be "overstocked" tangs just need room, something a 55 wont have.

> As a newbie, I'm not stating it is, but I'm trying to figure out why my own
> tank is having such a problem with derbesia. I have a sailfin tang, a
> maroon clown, an engineer goby and an algae-eating blenny. A couple of
> folks have told me my tank is overstocked. Thanks.

you didnt say how big your tank is. the same rule applies tangs get BIG, but overstocked
???? if its a 55 thats not overstocked.


--
Richard Reynolds

[Marc Levenson]

My 29g is stocked close to that level, but I skim the heck out of it.

My 55g is about as bad. <grin>

Marc


Richard Reynolds wrote:

> > > Purple tang, coral beauty dwarf angel, maroon clown, 3 firefish gobies,
> > > mandarin dragonet, fire shrimp, 3 rose anemones, a bunch of corals, thorny
> > > starfish...i.e., lots of stuff.
> > > 55 gallons.
>
> > Anyone consider this tank to be overstocked?
>
> not really
>
> even a large tang wouldnt be "overstocked" tangs just need room, something a 55 wont have.
>
> > As a newbie, I'm not stating it is, but I'm trying to figure out why my own
> > tank is having such a problem with derbesia. I have a sailfin tang, a
> > maroon clown, an engineer goby and an algae-eating blenny. A couple of
> > folks have told me my tank is overstocked. Thanks.
>
> you didnt say how big your tank is. the same rule applies tangs get BIG, but overstocked
> ???? if its a 55 thats not overstocked.
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Dragon Slayer]

i'd hate to say whats in my 180 then :)

kc

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> My 29g is stocked close to that level, but I skim the heck out of it.
>
> My 55g is about as bad. <grin>
>
> Marc
>
>
> Richard Reynolds wrote:
>
> > > > Purple tang, coral beauty dwarf angel, maroon clown, 3 firefish
gobies,
> > > > mandarin dragonet, fire shrimp, 3 rose anemones, a bunch of corals,
thorny
> > > > starfish...i.e., lots of stuff.
> > > > 55 gallons.
> >
> > > Anyone consider this tank to be overstocked?
> >
> > not really
> >
> > even a large tang wouldnt be "overstocked" tangs just need room,
something a 55 wont have.
> >
> > > As a newbie, I'm not stating it is, but I'm trying to figure out why
my own
> > > tank is having such a problem with derbesia. I have a sailfin tang, a
> > > maroon clown, an engineer goby and an algae-eating blenny. A couple
of
> > > folks have told me my tank is overstocked. Thanks.
> >
> > you didnt say how big your tank is. the same rule applies tangs get BIG,
but overstocked
> > ???? if its a 55 thats not overstocked.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Reynolds
> >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>