Hair algae in new setup

[miskairal]

Ok, I need some help please. I'm new to salt water fish keeping.

700 litre (180gallons I think)
Phosphates 0
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
2 x 150 watt metal halides
2 x 36 watt actinic blue fluoros
1 x old 36 watt white fluoro (came with the tank 2nd hand)
New Tunze protein skimmer
R/O water
No sump/refugium as I'm copying the successful tank in the petshop and
I'm a female and don't know how to do the plumbing anyway :)

Tank setup early Oct then Live Rock added on 13th Oct (Day 1). The live
rock was "uncured" except it had to sit in the shop tank for 6 days
before I could get it (2 1/2 hours to nearest marine pet shop)and a lot
of dead stuff was left at the shop. I saw only a slight rise in Ammonia
then nitrites then the Nitrates got to 5.

Day 5 I started up the metal halide lights for the first time as there
was quite a bit of coral on the live rock.
Day 14-16 Hair algae appeared so I cut the lighting back to 8 hours and
on advice of the petshop I raked it over. I then cut the halide lighting
back to 5 hours a day.
Day 18 I started up the Eheim canister (I didn't intend using this
except to have it on hand for emergencies) filter just with the filter
pads for mechanical filtration and a carbon filter which it recommended
to use in case of contaminants in the new filter materials. I was hoping
to remove some solids ???
Day 21 All tests at 0
Day 23 I added 2 small ocellaris clowns but was unable to obtain
anything else (shrimp, snails etc.) as the petshop's supplier is in the
process of moving. The petshop guy suggested vacuuming to remove any
detritus which I attempted on Day 24 but the water was clean so I
stopped rather than waste it.
Day 25 I removed all the sand and sifted through it by hand removing any
sign of hair algae. Took 6 hours. I don't have a deep sand bed just a
covering of maybe 1cm.
Today, Day 36 and the hair algae has been returning over the last 2
days. It is mostly on the sand with only a little on one rock.
Phosphates and Nitrates remain at 0. Coral and fish are
thriving/growing. Small amounts of macro algae looking good.

What do I do? Should I turn out the lights for a day or more - but then
the dying hair algae will just pollute the tank more. The fluoros are
on for 10 hours a day. Should I have another go at vacuuming? I'm only
5'4" and this tank is probably too big for me in that I can barely reach
the top of the live rock to move it round and get gunk out from under
it. I didn't think of that before I bought it. Apart from detritus,
phosphates and nitrates, what else causes this? Should I stop raking
over the algae.

I've done a lot of reading both before setting up and since. Most of
what I have read says to use R/O water and that it is caused by high
phosphates but I'm using R/O water and the phosphates are 0.

Thankyou for any advice!

[[email protected]]

Hello miskairal,

That is a massive tank, best wishes with it. It has only been set-up
for about 5 weeks. It will still be maturing over several years. With
your parameters being at zero, the hair-algae will probably begin to
subside over time. With the tank having only 2 ocellaris occupants, it
will hardly need feeding, as excess food will certainly cause algae,
whether it is eaten or not.

Regards, Fishnut.



On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:33:16 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:

>Ok, I need some help please. I'm new to salt water fish keeping.
>
>700 litre (180gallons I think)
>Phosphates 0
>Nitrates 0
>Ammonia 0
>Nitrites 0
>2 x 150 watt metal halides
>2 x 36 watt actinic blue fluoros
>1 x old 36 watt white fluoro (came with the tank 2nd hand)
>New Tunze protein skimmer
>R/O water
>No sump/refugium as I'm copying the successful tank in the petshop and
>I'm a female and don't know how to do the plumbing anyway :)
>
>Tank setup early Oct then Live Rock added on 13th Oct (Day 1). The live
>rock was "uncured" except it had to sit in the shop tank for 6 days
>before I could get it (2 1/2 hours to nearest marine pet shop)and a lot
>of dead stuff was left at the shop. I saw only a slight rise in Ammonia
>then nitrites then the Nitrates got to 5.
>
>Day 5 I started up the metal halide lights for the first time as there
>was quite a bit of coral on the live rock.
>Day 14-16 Hair algae appeared so I cut the lighting back to 8 hours and
>on advice of the petshop I raked it over. I then cut the halide lighting
>back to 5 hours a day.
>Day 18 I started up the Eheim canister (I didn't intend using this
>except to have it on hand for emergencies) filter just with the filter
>pads for mechanical filtration and a carbon filter which it recommended
>to use in case of contaminants in the new filter materials. I was hoping
>to remove some solids ???
>Day 21 All tests at 0
>Day 23 I added 2 small ocellaris clowns but was unable to obtain
>anything else (shrimp, snails etc.) as the petshop's supplier is in the
>process of moving. The petshop guy suggested vacuuming to remove any
>detritus which I attempted on Day 24 but the water was clean so I
>stopped rather than waste it.
>Day 25 I removed all the sand and sifted through it by hand removing any
>sign of hair algae. Took 6 hours. I don't have a deep sand bed just a
>covering of maybe 1cm.
>Today, Day 36 and the hair algae has been returning over the last 2
>days. It is mostly on the sand with only a little on one rock.
>Phosphates and Nitrates remain at 0. Coral and fish are
>thriving/growing. Small amounts of macro algae looking good.
>
>What do I do? Should I turn out the lights for a day or more - but then
>the dying hair algae will just pollute the tank more. The fluoros are
>on for 10 hours a day. Should I have another go at vacuuming? I'm only
>5'4" and this tank is probably too big for me in that I can barely reach
>the top of the live rock to move it round and get gunk out from under
>it. I didn't think of that before I bought it. Apart from detritus,
>phosphates and nitrates, what else causes this? Should I stop raking
>over the algae.
>
>I've done a lot of reading both before setting up and since. Most of
>what I have read says to use R/O water and that it is caused by high
>phosphates but I'm using R/O water and the phosphates are 0.
>
>Thankyou for any advice!

[miskairal]

Hmm, but it is very hard to feed 2 tiny fish so that they see the food
in such a big tank. They are tank bred and only about 4 months old. I
bought a feeding ring but it's taken them a week to learn that is where
their food is. I feed them a small amount twice a day of flake food
(Sera CVG-mix). Twice I have tried them on frozen brine shrimp but they
"run" over to it and then turn away as if they don't like it. I'm not
game put any more in until I have other fish and critters that will
clean it up when they don't eat it.

I actually bought the tank 2nd hand for freshwater fish but a friend
suggested sal****er so I spent 6 months researching and decided to do
that instead. I didn't intend having any coral until I had way more
experience but it just started growing on the live rock.

I have read that you can get all sorts of problems in the early months
but I just don't want the hair algae on the rock as there is so much
other stuff growing there it would be a shame if it died. The live rock
came from Cairns so I'm assuming I have part of the Great Barrier Reef
here and would feel terrible if I destroyed it. Even my husband is
interested in this tank and all that is growing in there whereas he paid
no attention to the freshwater tanks. I find him sitting behind the tank
with magnifying glasses on checking it all out.

Thanks fishnut, I was getting discouraged thinking I'd done something wrong.

wrote:
> Hello miskairal,
>
> That is a massive tank, best wishes with it. It has only been set-up
> for about 5 weeks. It will still be maturing over several years. With
> your parameters being at zero, the hair-algae will probably begin to
> subside over time. With the tank having only 2 ocellaris occupants, it
> will hardly need feeding, as excess food will certainly cause algae,
> whether it is eaten or not.
>
> Regards, Fishnut.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:33:16 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:
>
>
>>Ok, I need some help please. I'm new to salt water fish keeping.
>>
>>700 litre (180gallons I think)
>>Phosphates 0
>>Nitrates 0
>>Ammonia 0
>>Nitrites 0
>>2 x 150 watt metal halides
>>2 x 36 watt actinic blue fluoros
>>1 x old 36 watt white fluoro (came with the tank 2nd hand)
>>New Tunze protein skimmer
>>R/O water
>>No sump/refugium as I'm copying the successful tank in the petshop and
>>I'm a female and don't know how to do the plumbing anyway :)
>>
>>Tank setup early Oct then Live Rock added on 13th Oct (Day 1). The live
>>rock was "uncured" except it had to sit in the shop tank for 6 days
>>before I could get it (2 1/2 hours to nearest marine pet shop)and a lot
>>of dead stuff was left at the shop. I saw only a slight rise in Ammonia
>>then nitrites then the Nitrates got to 5.
>>
>>Day 5 I started up the metal halide lights for the first time as there
>>was quite a bit of coral on the live rock.
>>Day 14-16 Hair algae appeared so I cut the lighting back to 8 hours and
>>on advice of the petshop I raked it over. I then cut the halide lighting
>>back to 5 hours a day.
>>Day 18 I started up the Eheim canister (I didn't intend using this
>>except to have it on hand for emergencies) filter just with the filter
>>pads for mechanical filtration and a carbon filter which it recommended
>>to use in case of contaminants in the new filter materials. I was hoping
>>to remove some solids ???
>>Day 21 All tests at 0
>>Day 23 I added 2 small ocellaris clowns but was unable to obtain
>>anything else (shrimp, snails etc.) as the petshop's supplier is in the
>>process of moving. The petshop guy suggested vacuuming to remove any
>>detritus which I attempted on Day 24 but the water was clean so I
>>stopped rather than waste it.
>>Day 25 I removed all the sand and sifted through it by hand removing any
>>sign of hair algae. Took 6 hours. I don't have a deep sand bed just a
>>covering of maybe 1cm.
>>Today, Day 36 and the hair algae has been returning over the last 2
>>days. It is mostly on the sand with only a little on one rock.
>>Phosphates and Nitrates remain at 0. Coral and fish are
>>thriving/growing. Small amounts of macro algae looking good.
>>
>>What do I do? Should I turn out the lights for a day or more - but then
>>the dying hair algae will just pollute the tank more. The fluoros are
>>on for 10 hours a day. Should I have another go at vacuuming? I'm only
>>5'4" and this tank is probably too big for me in that I can barely reach
>>the top of the live rock to move it round and get gunk out from under
>>it. I didn't think of that before I bought it. Apart from detritus,
>>phosphates and nitrates, what else causes this? Should I stop raking
>>over the algae.
>>
>>I've done a lot of reading both before setting up and since. Most of
>>what I have read says to use R/O water and that it is caused by high
>>phosphates but I'm using R/O water and the phosphates are 0.
>>
>>Thankyou for any advice!
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:35:10 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:

>Hmm, but it is very hard to feed 2 tiny fish so that they see the food
>in such a big tank. They are tank bred and only about 4 months old. I
>bought a feeding ring but it's taken them a week to learn that is where
>their food is. I feed them a small amount twice a day of flake food
>(Sera CVG-mix). Twice I have tried them on frozen brine shrimp but they
>"run" over to it and then turn away as if they don't like it. I'm not
>game put any more in until I have other fish and critters that will
>clean it up when they don't eat it.
>
>I actually bought the tank 2nd hand for freshwater fish but a friend
>suggested sal****er so I spent 6 months researching and decided to do
>that instead. I didn't intend having any coral until I had way more
>experience but it just started growing on the live rock.
>
>I have read that you can get all sorts of problems in the early months
>but I just don't want the hair algae on the rock as there is so much
>other stuff growing there it would be a shame if it died. The live rock
>came from Cairns so I'm assuming I have part of the Great Barrier Reef
>here and would feel terrible if I destroyed it. Even my husband is
>interested in this tank and all that is growing in there whereas he paid
>no attention to the freshwater tanks. I find him sitting behind the tank
>with magnifying glasses on checking it all out.
>
>Thanks fishnut, I was getting discouraged thinking I'd done something wrong.
>
wrote:
>> Hello miskairal,
>>
>> That is a massive tank, best wishes with it. It has only been set-up
>> for about 5 weeks. It will still be maturing over several years. With
>> your parameters being at zero, the hair-algae will probably begin to
>> subside over time. With the tank having only 2 ocellaris occupants, it
>> will hardly need feeding, as excess food will certainly cause algae,
>> whether it is eaten or not.
>>
>> Regards, Fishnut.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:33:16 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, I need some help please. I'm new to salt water fish keeping.
>>>
>>>700 litre (180gallons I think)
>>>Phosphates 0
>>>Nitrates 0
>>>Ammonia 0
>>>Nitrites 0
>>>2 x 150 watt metal halides
>>>2 x 36 watt actinic blue fluoros
>>>1 x old 36 watt white fluoro (came with the tank 2nd hand)
>>>New Tunze protein skimmer
>>>R/O water
>>>No sump/refugium as I'm copying the successful tank in the petshop and
>>>I'm a female and don't know how to do the plumbing anyway :)
>>>
>>>Tank setup early Oct then Live Rock added on 13th Oct (Day 1). The live
>>>rock was "uncured" except it had to sit in the shop tank for 6 days
>>>before I could get it (2 1/2 hours to nearest marine pet shop)and a lot
>>>of dead stuff was left at the shop. I saw only a slight rise in Ammonia
>>>then nitrites then the Nitrates got to 5.
>>>
>>>Day 5 I started up the metal halide lights for the first time as there
>>>was quite a bit of coral on the live rock.
>>>Day 14-16 Hair algae appeared so I cut the lighting back to 8 hours and
>>>on advice of the petshop I raked it over. I then cut the halide lighting
>>>back to 5 hours a day.
>>>Day 18 I started up the Eheim canister (I didn't intend using this
>>>except to have it on hand for emergencies) filter just with the filter
>>>pads for mechanical filtration and a carbon filter which it recommended
>>>to use in case of contaminants in the new filter materials. I was hoping
>>>to remove some solids ???
>>>Day 21 All tests at 0
>>>Day 23 I added 2 small ocellaris clowns but was unable to obtain
>>>anything else (shrimp, snails etc.) as the petshop's supplier is in the
>>>process of moving. The petshop guy suggested vacuuming to remove any
>>>detritus which I attempted on Day 24 but the water was clean so I
>>>stopped rather than waste it.
>>>Day 25 I removed all the sand and sifted through it by hand removing any
>>>sign of hair algae. Took 6 hours. I don't have a deep sand bed just a
>>>covering of maybe 1cm.
>>>Today, Day 36 and the hair algae has been returning over the last 2
>>>days. It is mostly on the sand with only a little on one rock.
>>>Phosphates and Nitrates remain at 0. Coral and fish are
>>>thriving/growing. Small amounts of macro algae looking good.
>>>
>>>What do I do? Should I turn out the lights for a day or more - but then
>>>the dying hair algae will just pollute the tank more. The fluoros are
>>>on for 10 hours a day. Should I have another go at vacuuming? I'm only
>>>5'4" and this tank is probably too big for me in that I can barely reach
>>>the top of the live rock to move it round and get gunk out from under
>>>it. I didn't think of that before I bought it. Apart from detritus,
>>>phosphates and nitrates, what else causes this? Should I stop raking
>>>over the algae.
>>>
>>>I've done a lot of reading both before setting up and since. Most of
>>>what I have read says to use R/O water and that it is caused by high
>>>phosphates but I'm using R/O water and the phosphates are 0.
>>>
>>>Thankyou for any advice!
>>
>>

[[email protected]]

Hello miskairal,

Something I should have mentioned is that some nitrates and phosphates
will be bound-up in the hair algae, and will give a low (nil ?)
reading when testing. Also bear in mind that kits sold for amateur
use can be wildly inaccurate, so don't slavishly follow the results
(this applies to all of the amateur kits).

If there is an Australian magazine dealing with fishkeeping, take-out
an annual sub'n mailorder. You will then find contacts by web or post
for buying equip., flake etc., which will save you many $ each year.
Buy your salt online in 25 Kgs. buckets.

There was no mention of powerheads in your equip.spec.. If you can buy
the Tunze 6060 Turbellestream, or the more powerful models, they are
tremendous - cheap to run, and very effective. Unfortunately, they are
not cheap to buy, but should last a very long time.

Over the years, there have been several good posters from Oz, who may
be able to assist you with contacts for m/o supplies. I don't know
whether any of them still subscribe to this group, or not. It used to
be much busier than it is now. Anyway, bear in mind that the
learning-curve is very steep initially, but within 6 months I predict
that you will be an expert ! (Or well on your way there. Ha! Ha!).

Best wishes, Fishnut.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:23:59 GMT, wrote:

>Hello miskairal,
>
>Something I should have mentioned is that some nitrates and phosphates
>will be bound-up in the hair algae, and will give a low (nil ?)
>reading when testing. Also bear in mind that kits sold for amateur
>use can be wildly inaccurate, so don't slavishly follow the results
>(this applies to all of the amateur kits).
>
>If there is an Australian magazine dealing with fishkeeping, take-out
>an annual sub'n mailorder. You will then find contacts by web or post
>for buying equip., flake etc., which will save you many $ each year.
>Buy your salt online in 25 Kgs. buckets.
>
>There was no mention of powerheads in your equip.spec.. If you can buy
>the Tunze 6060 Turbellestream, or the more powerful models, they are
>tremendous - cheap to run, and very effective. Unfortunately, they are
>not cheap to buy, but should last a very long time.
>
>Over the years, there have been several good posters from Oz, who may
>be able to assist you with contacts for m/o supplies. I don't know
>whether any of them still subscribe to this group, or not. It used to
>be much busier than it is now. Anyway, bear in mind that the
>learning-curve is very steep initially, but within 6 months I predict
>that you will be an expert ! (Or well on your way there. Ha! Ha!).
>
>Best wishes, Fishnut.

Another thing I forgot to mention, which many people do not consider
until it is too late, is to setup a quarantine tank. It will save many
$, and a great deal of heartache. It only needs to be simply
furnished.
Get a 10 gallon (preferably 20 gallon) tank, heater/stat, an Eheim
2012 or Fluval 4+ or similar internal filter, and a powerhead. You
need to start the filter in your main tank now to mature the
filter-sponge over a few weeks. Fill the q-tank with sal****er and run
a powerhead in it. For decor a few pieces of rock (preferably
liverock) and/or pieces of white PVC piping. It is easier to clean the
bottom if there is no sandbase, but you cannot quarantine many dwarf
wrasse without a sandbase as they bury themselves at night, or if they
become frightened. Lights are optional, but it may help you to inspect
the fish or to keep plants like Caulerpa you introduce. Install the
filter, run for a few more days, before introducing any fish /
inverts. The filter will probably never need cleaning, due to the
light bioload, and if you have used a piece of liverock, the filter
gets full of copapods etc.. You need to quarantine every animal for
(say) 4 weeks, and the 4 weeks starts again each time you introduce
something new.

[miskairal]

wrote:
>
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:23:59 GMT, wrote:
>
>
>>Hello miskairal,
>>
>>Something I should have mentioned is that some nitrates and phosphates
>>will be bound-up in the hair algae, and will give a low (nil ?)
>>reading when testing. Also bear in mind that kits sold for amateur
>>use can be wildly inaccurate, so don't slavishly follow the results
>>(this applies to all of the amateur kits).
>>
>>If there is an Australian magazine dealing with fishkeeping, take-out
>>an annual sub'n mailorder. You will then find contacts by web or post
>>for buying equip., flake etc., which will save you many $ each year.
>>Buy your salt online in 25 Kgs. buckets.
>>
>>There was no mention of powerheads in your equip.spec.. If you can buy
>>the Tunze 6060 Turbellestream, or the more powerful models, they are
>>tremendous - cheap to run, and very effective. Unfortunately, they are
>>not cheap to buy, but should last a very long time.
>>
>>Over the years, there have been several good posters from Oz, who may
>>be able to assist you with contacts for m/o supplies. I don't know
>>whether any of them still subscribe to this group, or not. It used to
>>be much busier than it is now. Anyway, bear in mind that the
>>learning-curve is very steep initially, but within 6 months I predict
>>that you will be an expert ! (Or well on your way there. Ha! Ha!).
>>
>>Best wishes, Fishnut.
>
>
> Another thing I forgot to mention, which many people do not consider
> until it is too late, is to setup a quarantine tank. It will save many
> $, and a great deal of heartache. It only needs to be simply
> furnished.
> Get a 10 gallon (preferably 20 gallon) tank, heater/stat, an Eheim
> 2012 or Fluval 4+ or similar internal filter, and a powerhead. You
> need to start the filter in your main tank now to mature the
> filter-sponge over a few weeks. Fill the q-tank with sal****er and run
> a powerhead in it. For decor a few pieces of rock (preferably
> liverock) and/or pieces of white PVC piping. It is easier to clean the
> bottom if there is no sandbase, but you cannot quarantine many dwarf
> wrasse without a sandbase as they bury themselves at night, or if they
> become frightened. Lights are optional, but it may help you to inspect
> the fish or to keep plants like Caulerpa you introduce. Install the
> filter, run for a few more days, before introducing any fish /
> inverts. The filter will probably never need cleaning, due to the
> light bioload, and if you have used a piece of liverock, the filter
> gets full of copapods etc.. You need to quarantine every animal for
> (say) 4 weeks, and the 4 weeks starts again each time you introduce
> something new.
>
>

THANKYOU fishnut for all your help.
I have the Tunze 6060 power head, just one right now but the petshop guy
recommended a second one for the other end of the tank.

Quarantine - I have a 90 litre (?20gall) tank for that but was just
going to use my freshwater equipment as the fish would only be in it for
4 weeks - is that ok? I wont' be adding/buying any new fish until I have
the first well and truly settled in. I have an internal filter I can
use, heater and lighting but I wasn't planning on buying live rock for
it. The bad part is that I hadn't thought to add that filter into the
main tank now for it to start growing some good bacteria - what an idiot!

I'll go check out the magazine subscription. There was one the petshop
guy told me about but at the time the money was pouring out (into his
hands) so I left it for later.

That is interesting about the phosphates and nitrates binding to the
algae. What do you mean by amateur's kits? My phosphate kit is a Sera,
can't remember what the nitrate one is as I bought that for my
freshwater fish but it has both a freshwater and sal****er comparison
card in it. Can you recommend something else? Should I do a water change
now via vacuuming? I dont' mind moving the rock around when I know where
the crab is that came with the rock but I have't seen it for a couple of
days and can't find it's latest hiding place. I've already had to deal
with a huge brown snake this week and I'm all heebie jeebied out :)

Thanks again fishnut - I really appreciate the help!

[pfishc]

You don't mention the amount of current in the tank. Hair algae does'nt
like current. Put in some tunze streams and get that current up to at
least 20 time turn over (3600 gal/min). Pull as much algae out by hand
while siphoning, and get a big clean up crew in there and you should
solve your problem.

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:55:47 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:

wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:23:59 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello miskairal,
>>>
>>>Something I should have mentioned is that some nitrates and phosphates
>>>will be bound-up in the hair algae, and will give a low (nil ?)
>>>reading when testing. Also bear in mind that kits sold for amateur
>>>use can be wildly inaccurate, so don't slavishly follow the results
>>>(this applies to all of the amateur kits).
>>>
I mean all the kits costing (say) A $ 20. The "professional" aquarists
use meters for accuracy for each test - nitrate , pH , calcium etc.,
but each of these meters costs a fortune. Use your tests kits as a
guide only, as the results may not be as accurate as displayed - so
don't begin adding chemicals to the water to change the displayed
results, as you may be altering something that is actually correct,
and you end-up ruining "satisfactory" water parameters.

>>>If there is an Australian magazine dealing with fishkeeping, take-out
>>>an annual sub'n mailorder. You will then find contacts by web or post
>>>for buying equip., flake etc., which will save you many $ each year.
>>>Buy your salt online in 25 Kgs. buckets.
>>>
>>>There was no mention of powerheads in your equip.spec.. If you can buy
>>>the Tunze 6060 Turbellestream, or the more powerful models, they are
>>>tremendous - cheap to run, and very effective. Unfortunately, they are
>>>not cheap to buy, but should last a very long time.
>>>
>>>Over the years, there have been several good posters from Oz, who may
>>>be able to assist you with contacts for m/o supplies. I don't know
>>>whether any of them still subscribe to this group, or not. It used to
>>>be much busier than it is now. Anyway, bear in mind that the
>>>learning-curve is very steep initially, but within 6 months I predict
>>>that you will be an expert ! (Or well on your way there. Ha! Ha!).
>>>
>>>Best wishes, Fishnut.
>>
>>
>> Another thing I forgot to mention, which many people do not consider
>> until it is too late, is to setup a quarantine tank. It will save many
>> $, and a great deal of heartache. It only needs to be simply
>> furnished.
>> Get a 10 gallon (preferably 20 gallon) tank, heater/stat, an Eheim
>> 2012 or Fluval 4+ or similar internal filter, and a powerhead. You
>> need to start the filter in your main tank now to mature the
>> filter-sponge over a few weeks. Fill the q-tank with sal****er and run
>> a powerhead in it. For decor a few pieces of rock (preferably
>> liverock) and/or pieces of white PVC piping. It is easier to clean the
>> bottom if there is no sandbase, but you cannot quarantine many dwarf
>> wrasse without a sandbase as they bury themselves at night, or if they
>> become frightened. Lights are optional, but it may help you to inspect
>> the fish or to keep plants like Caulerpa you introduce. Install the
>> filter, run for a few more days, before introducing any fish /
>> inverts. The filter will probably never need cleaning, due to the
>> light bioload, and if you have used a piece of liverock, the filter
>> gets full of copapods etc.. You need to quarantine every animal for
>> (say) 4 weeks, and the 4 weeks starts again each time you introduce
>> something new.

A small piece of liverock, 3 inch diameter

>THANKYOU fishnut for all your help.
>I have the Tunze 6060 power head, just one right now but the petshop guy
>recommended a second one for the other end of the tank.
>
He would say that wouldn't he ! I can imagine him rubbing his hands
with glee !
I don't know what they cost in Australia- probably a fortune at LFS
prices. I bet online that you will get a 30 % cost reduction ! If not,
you can use your freshwater internal filters. Remove everything from
inside it - sponges, media etc.- and simply use it for water
circulation. You probably will not have to clean it more often than
annually. Maxijet PH1200 are very reliable.
>Quarantine - I have a 90 litre (?20gall) tank for that but was just
>going to use my freshwater equipment as the fish would only be in it for
>4 weeks - is that ok?
Yes, ideal

I wont' be adding/buying any new fish until I have
>the first well and truly settled in. I have an internal filter I can
>use, heater and lighting but I wasn't planning on buying live rock for
>it. The bad part is that I hadn't thought to add that filter into the
>main tank now for it to start growing some good bacteria - what an idiot!

This is why in 6 months you will be an expert !
>I'll go check out the magazine subscription. There was one the petshop
>guy told me about but at the time the money was pouring out (into his
>hands) so I left it for later.
>
>That is interesting about the phosphates and nitrates binding to the
>algae. What do you mean by amateur's kits? My phosphate kit is a Sera,
>can't remember what the nitrate one is as I bought that for my
>freshwater fish but it has both a freshwater and sal****er comparison
>card in it. Can you recommend something else? Should I do a water change
>now via vacuuming? I dont' mind moving the rock around when I know where
>the crab is that came with the rock but I have't seen it for a couple of
>days and can't find it's latest hiding place. I've already had to deal
>with a huge brown snake this week and I'm all heebie jeebied out :)
>
See the answer at the top of the post. Try not to disturb the sandbase
at all. You need to encourage "good" bacteria to colonise the sand and
rocks, without disturbance. Due to there only being 2 little fish in
there, a weekly water change of 2 gallons/week would be fine at
present. You need to identify the crab for safety's sake. Most people
look at the claws. If they are pointed like lobster's claws, or if
they are "swimming" crabs, they will probably cause serious trouble
as they get bigger/hungier. Where did it come from anyway ? Red-legged
and blue-legged hermit crabs are good fun to watch. I don't know where
in Oz you are, but I suppose most people live near the coast. You will
need spare shells for any hermits, so you may be able to get some off
the beach, if the local water is unpolluted. I would boil them for a
few minutes to be safe.

>Thanks again fishnut - I really appreciate the help!

Reptiles in general, and snakes in particular, have never appealed to
me, either. I cannot see me ever keeping a moray eel in an aquarium.

Most of your freshwater kit will be fine for marine tanks, but often
stronger water circulation is required, so people buy bigger pumps,
more powerful lighting etc.
At the moment, winter has come early here - freezing fog, thick frosts
at night until midday, and it says we are starting with snow by the
end of the week. I thought that would cheer you up ! Have you thought
about keeping your tank cool in your hot weather ?

Regards, Fishnut.

[Wayne Sallee]

Increasing water flow has many benefits in the reef tank,
but it's not true that hair algae does not like current.
Now that's not to say that increasing current won't reduce
hair algae, but I sure can't agree with you that hair
algae does not like current.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



pfishc wrote on 11/21/2005 1:23 PM:
> You don't mention the amount of current in the tank. Hair algae does'nt
> like current. Put in some tunze streams and get that current up to at
> least 20 time turn over (3600 gal/min). Pull as much algae out by hand
> while siphoning, and get a big clean up crew in there and you should
> solve your problem.
>

[miskairal]

wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:55:47 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:23:59 GMT, wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello miskairal,
>>>>
>>>>Something I should have mentioned is that some nitrates and phosphates
>>>>will be bound-up in the hair algae, and will give a low (nil ?)
>>>>reading when testing. Also bear in mind that kits sold for amateur
>>>>use can be wildly inaccurate, so don't slavishly follow the results
>>>>(this applies to all of the amateur kits).
>>>>
>
> I mean all the kits costing (say) A $ 20. The "professional" aquarists
> use meters for accuracy for each test - nitrate , pH , calcium etc.,
> but each of these meters costs a fortune. Use your tests kits as a
> guide only, as the results may not be as accurate as displayed - so
> don't begin adding chemicals to the water to change the displayed
> results, as you may be altering something that is actually correct,
> and you end-up ruining "satisfactory" water parameters.
I'll hold off on spending that sort of money just yet. I dont' believe
in adding anything to fish tanks, there is usually a cause for a problem
that needs rectifying first.
>
>
>>>>If there is an Australian magazine dealing with fishkeeping, take-out
>>>>an annual sub'n mailorder. You will then find contacts by web or post
>>>>for buying equip., flake etc., which will save you many $ each year.
>>>>Buy your salt online in 25 Kgs. buckets.
>>>>
>>>>There was no mention of powerheads in your equip.spec.. If you can buy
>>>>the Tunze 6060 Turbellestream, or the more powerful models, they are
>>>>tremendous - cheap to run, and very effective. Unfortunately, they are
>>>>not cheap to buy, but should last a very long time.
>>>>
>>>>Over the years, there have been several good posters from Oz, who may
>>>>be able to assist you with contacts for m/o supplies. I don't know
>>>>whether any of them still subscribe to this group, or not. It used to
>>>>be much busier than it is now. Anyway, bear in mind that the
>>>>learning-curve is very steep initially, but within 6 months I predict
>>>>that you will be an expert ! (Or well on your way there. Ha! Ha!).
>>>>
>>>>Best wishes, Fishnut.
>>>
>>>
>>>Another thing I forgot to mention, which many people do not consider
>>>until it is too late, is to setup a quarantine tank. It will save many
>>>$, and a great deal of heartache. It only needs to be simply
>>>furnished.
>>>Get a 10 gallon (preferably 20 gallon) tank, heater/stat, an Eheim
>>>2012 or Fluval 4+ or similar internal filter, and a powerhead. You
>>>need to start the filter in your main tank now to mature the
>>>filter-sponge over a few weeks. Fill the q-tank with sal****er and run
>>>a powerhead in it. For decor a few pieces of rock (preferably
>>>liverock) and/or pieces of white PVC piping. It is easier to clean the
>>>bottom if there is no sandbase, but you cannot quarantine many dwarf
>>>wrasse without a sandbase as they bury themselves at night, or if they
>>>become frightened. Lights are optional, but it may help you to inspect
>>>the fish or to keep plants like Caulerpa you introduce. Install the
>>>filter, run for a few more days, before introducing any fish /
>>>inverts. The filter will probably never need cleaning, due to the
>>>light bioload, and if you have used a piece of liverock, the filter
>>>gets full of copapods etc.. You need to quarantine every animal for
>>>(say) 4 weeks, and the 4 weeks starts again each time you introduce
>>>something new.
>
>
> A small piece of liverock, 3 inch diameter
Wow - I think I can manage that :)
>
>
>>THANKYOU fishnut for all your help.
>>I have the Tunze 6060 power head, just one right now but the petshop guy
>>recommended a second one for the other end of the tank.
>>
>
> He would say that wouldn't he ! I can imagine him rubbing his hands
> with glee !
> I don't know what they cost in Australia- probably a fortune at LFS
> prices. I bet online that you will get a 30 % cost reduction ! If not,
> you can use your freshwater internal filters. Remove everything from
> inside it - sponges, media etc.- and simply use it for water
> circulation. You probably will not have to clean it more often than
> annually. Maxijet PH1200 are very reliable.
I've been buying through the petshop b/c I figured I was also paying for
advice and this guy has been very patient with me. I gave you the wrong
powerhead before, it's a Turbelle stream 6000, not 6060, rated at 7000
litres an hour (1850G). The petshop guy knew that I eventually wanted
coral which is why he probably suggested getting another. It cost me
$440 AUS. I've got a power head that came with the tank which I had in
there until I started up the Eheim.
>
>>Quarantine - I have a 90 litre (?20gall) tank for that but was just
>>going to use my freshwater equipment as the fish would only be in it for
>>4 weeks - is that ok?
>
> Yes, ideal
>
> I wont' be adding/buying any new fish until I have
>
>>the first well and truly settled in. I have an internal filter I can
>>use, heater and lighting but I wasn't planning on buying live rock for
>>it. The bad part is that I hadn't thought to add that filter into the
>>main tank now for it to start growing some good bacteria - what an idiot!
>
>
> This is why in 6 months you will be an expert !
Make that 10 years and 6 months :)
>
>>I'll go check out the magazine subscription. There was one the petshop
>>guy told me about but at the time the money was pouring out (into his
>>hands) so I left it for later.
>>
>>That is interesting about the phosphates and nitrates binding to the
>>algae. What do you mean by amateur's kits? My phosphate kit is a Sera,
>>can't remember what the nitrate one is as I bought that for my
>>freshwater fish but it has both a freshwater and sal****er comparison
>>card in it. Can you recommend something else? Should I do a water change
>>now via vacuuming? I dont' mind moving the rock around when I know where
>>the crab is that came with the rock but I have't seen it for a couple of
>>days and can't find it's latest hiding place. I've already had to deal
>>with a huge brown snake this week and I'm all heebie jeebied out :)
>>
>
> See the answer at the top of the post. Try not to disturb the sandbase
> at all. You need to encourage "good" bacteria to colonise the sand and
> rocks, without disturbance. Due to there only being 2 little fish in
> there, a weekly water change of 2 gallons/week would be fine at
> present. You need to identify the crab for safety's sake. Most people
> look at the claws. If they are pointed like lobster's claws, or if
> they are "swimming" crabs, they will probably cause serious trouble
> as they get bigger/hungier. Where did it come from anyway ? Red-legged
> and blue-legged hermit crabs are good fun to watch. I don't know where
> in Oz you are, but I suppose most people live near the coast. You will
> need spare shells for any hermits, so you may be able to get some off
> the beach, if the local water is unpolluted. I would boil them for a
> few minutes to be safe.
Ok, I will leaves the sand alone. The crab came with the live rock and I
have been unable to identify it. It looks like the rock and has only one
claw which is black. I suspect it's a baddiebut so far it doesn't seem
to have done anything. I actually thought one night that it was eating
some hair algae which is why I've held off doing anything about it.
>
>
>>Thanks again fishnut - I really appreciate the help!
>
>
> Reptiles in general, and snakes in particular, have never appealed to
> me, either. I cannot see me ever keeping a moray eel in an aquarium.
I picked this ******* up! It was in the bottom of an empty plant pot and
I was wondering why it felt heavy and was dragging so I looked down and
here it was hanging out the bottom flicking it's tongue at me. It was a
very big one too.
>
> Most of your freshwater kit will be fine for marine tanks, but often
> stronger water circulation is required, so people buy bigger pumps,
> more powerful lighting etc.
> At the moment, winter has come early here - freezing fog, thick frosts
> at night until midday, and it says we are starting with snow by the
> end of the week. I thought that would cheer you up ! Have you thought
> about keeping your tank cool in your hot weather ?
>
> Regards, Fishnut.
>

I hope you like winter then? I dont' much go on it but then I've spent
the last 12 years getting up to do the milking at 4.30 am every day and
it gets down to -7°C here. I'm a few hours inland from the sea so we get
hot summers and cold winters.
I've set the tank up in a very cool area downstairs, often 10°C cooler
than the rest of the house. I'm hoping not to have to spend $1000 on a
chiller. A fan setup came with the tank which I'm hoping will blow the
heat from the halides away sufficiently. I will just have to monitor it
closely and be prepared for a quick drive to get a chiller if necessary.

Cheers
miskairal

[miskairal]

pfishc wrote:
> You don't mention the amount of current in the tank. Hair algae does'nt
> like current. Put in some tunze streams and get that current up to at
> least 20 time turn over (3600 gal/min). Pull as much algae out by hand
> while siphoning, and get a big clean up crew in there and you should
> solve your problem.
>
I have a Turbelle Stream 6000 rated at 7000 litres/hr (1850 gall) and
will be getting another. Did you mean 3600 gal/hour rather than minute :)

The Eheim does another 250-350 litres an hour - do I factor this in?

There certainly is a lot of current flowing over the algae as it waves
in it a lot.

I would happily pull the algae out by hand if I could reach the bottom
but I can't :( I hope to get the cleanup crew on the 6th December
which is my next trip down to the petshop. I've tried picking out the
algae with a long claw/pincer thing but it's way harder than you'd think.

I really wish I'd thought about my height before buying such a big tank!

[pfishc]

Yes I ment per hour. The clean up crew will help and the exstra pump.
You can buy some exstra long hemostats on line (
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?category=128) that will help you
reach to the bottom of the tank. Try to get as much of the algae out by
hand so your clean up crew will have a head start, also get that
skimmer working over time with a wet tea like skimmate, aleast a pint a
day on a tank that size.

[miskairal]

pfishc wrote:
> Yes I ment per hour. The clean up crew will help and the exstra pump.
> You can buy some exstra long hemostats on line (
> http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?category=128) that will help you
> reach to the bottom of the tank. Try to get as much of the algae out by
> hand so your clean up crew will have a head start, also get that
> skimmer working over time with a wet tea like skimmate, aleast a pint a
> day on a tank that size.
>
Sorry but you lost me with the skimmer working overtime - what is a wet
tea like skimmate?

I will try to find an Australian site with the same equipment but right
now we have storms coming in so I have to shut down.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:19:49 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:

wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:55:47 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:
>>
>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:23:59 GMT, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hello miskairal,
>>>>>
>>>>>Something I should have mentioned is that some nitrates and phosphates
>>>>>will be bound-up in the hair algae, and will give a low (nil ?)
>>>>>reading when testing. Also bear in mind that kits sold for amateur
>>>>>use can be wildly inaccurate, so don't slavishly follow the results
>>>>>(this applies to all of the amateur kits).
>>>>>
>>
>> I mean all the kits costing (say) A $ 20. The "professional" aquarists
>> use meters for accuracy for each test - nitrate , pH , calcium etc.,
>> but each of these meters costs a fortune. Use your tests kits as a
>> guide only, as the results may not be as accurate as displayed - so
>> don't begin adding chemicals to the water to change the displayed
>> results, as you may be altering something that is actually correct,
>> and you end-up ruining "satisfactory" water parameters.
>I'll hold off on spending that sort of money just yet. I dont' believe
>in adding anything to fish tanks, there is usually a cause for a problem
>that needs rectifying first.
>>
>>
>>>>>If there is an Australian magazine dealing with fishkeeping, take-out
>>>>>an annual sub'n mailorder. You will then find contacts by web or post
>>>>>for buying equip., flake etc., which will save you many $ each year.
>>>>>Buy your salt online in 25 Kgs. buckets.
>>>>>
>>>>>There was no mention of powerheads in your equip.spec.. If you can buy
>>>>>the Tunze 6060 Turbellestream, or the more powerful models, they are
>>>>>tremendous - cheap to run, and very effective. Unfortunately, they are
>>>>>not cheap to buy, but should last a very long time.
>>>>>
>>>>>Over the years, there have been several good posters from Oz, who may
>>>>>be able to assist you with contacts for m/o supplies. I don't know
>>>>>whether any of them still subscribe to this group, or not. It used to
>>>>>be much busier than it is now. Anyway, bear in mind that the
>>>>>learning-curve is very steep initially, but within 6 months I predict
>>>>>that you will be an expert ! (Or well on your way there. Ha! Ha!).
>>>>>
>>>>>Best wishes, Fishnut.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Another thing I forgot to mention, which many people do not consider
>>>>until it is too late, is to setup a quarantine tank. It will save many
>>>>$, and a great deal of heartache. It only needs to be simply
>>>>furnished.
>>>>Get a 10 gallon (preferably 20 gallon) tank, heater/stat, an Eheim
>>>>2012 or Fluval 4+ or similar internal filter, and a powerhead. You
>>>>need to start the filter in your main tank now to mature the
>>>>filter-sponge over a few weeks. Fill the q-tank with sal****er and run
>>>>a powerhead in it. For decor a few pieces of rock (preferably
>>>>liverock) and/or pieces of white PVC piping. It is easier to clean the
>>>>bottom if there is no sandbase, but you cannot quarantine many dwarf
>>>>wrasse without a sandbase as they bury themselves at night, or if they
>>>>become frightened. Lights are optional, but it may help you to inspect
>>>>the fish or to keep plants like Caulerpa you introduce. Install the
>>>>filter, run for a few more days, before introducing any fish /
>>>>inverts. The filter will probably never need cleaning, due to the
>>>>light bioload, and if you have used a piece of liverock, the filter
>>>>gets full of copapods etc.. You need to quarantine every animal for
>>>>(say) 4 weeks, and the 4 weeks starts again each time you introduce
>>>>something new.
>>
>>
>> A small piece of liverock, 3 inch diameter
>Wow - I think I can manage that :)
>>
>>
>>>THANKYOU fishnut for all your help.
>>>I have the Tunze 6060 power head, just one right now but the petshop guy
>>>recommended a second one for the other end of the tank.
>>>
>>
>> He would say that wouldn't he ! I can imagine him rubbing his hands
>> with glee !
>> I don't know what they cost in Australia- probably a fortune at LFS
>> prices. I bet online that you will get a 30 % cost reduction ! If not,
>> you can use your freshwater internal filters. Remove everything from
>> inside it - sponges, media etc.- and simply use it for water
>> circulation. You probably will not have to clean it more often than
>> annually. Maxijet PH1200 are very reliable.
>I've been buying through the petshop b/c I figured I was also paying for
>advice and this guy has been very patient with me. I gave you the wrong
>powerhead before, it's a Turbelle stream 6000, not 6060, rated at 7000
>litres an hour (1850G). The petshop guy knew that I eventually wanted
>coral which is why he probably suggested getting another. It cost me
>$440 AUS. I've got a power head that came with the tank which I had in
>there until I started up the Eheim.
>>
>>>Quarantine - I have a 90 litre (?20gall) tank for that but was just
>>>going to use my freshwater equipment as the fish would only be in it for
>>>4 weeks - is that ok?
>>
>> Yes, ideal
>>
>> I wont' be adding/buying any new fish until I have
>>
>>>the first well and truly settled in. I have an internal filter I can
>>>use, heater and lighting but I wasn't planning on buying live rock for
>>>it. The bad part is that I hadn't thought to add that filter into the
>>>main tank now for it to start growing some good bacteria - what an idiot!
>>
>>
>> This is why in 6 months you will be an expert !
>Make that 10 years and 6 months :)
>>
>>>I'll go check out the magazine subscription. There was one the petshop
>>>guy told me about but at the time the money was pouring out (into his
>>>hands) so I left it for later.
>>>
>>>That is interesting about the phosphates and nitrates binding to the
>>>algae. What do you mean by amateur's kits? My phosphate kit is a Sera,
>>>can't remember what the nitrate one is as I bought that for my
>>>freshwater fish but it has both a freshwater and sal****er comparison
>>>card in it. Can you recommend something else? Should I do a water change
>>>now via vacuuming? I dont' mind moving the rock around when I know where
>>>the crab is that came with the rock but I have't seen it for a couple of
>>>days and can't find it's latest hiding place. I've already had to deal
>>>with a huge brown snake this week and I'm all heebie jeebied out :)
>>>
>>
>> See the answer at the top of the post. Try not to disturb the sandbase
>> at all. You need to encourage "good" bacteria to colonise the sand and
>> rocks, without disturbance. Due to there only being 2 little fish in
>> there, a weekly water change of 2 gallons/week would be fine at
>> present. You need to identify the crab for safety's sake. Most people
>> look at the claws. If they are pointed like lobster's claws, or if
>> they are "swimming" crabs, they will probably cause serious trouble
>> as they get bigger/hungier. Where did it come from anyway ? Red-legged
>> and blue-legged hermit crabs are good fun to watch. I don't know where
>> in Oz you are, but I suppose most people live near the coast. You will
>> need spare shells for any hermits, so you may be able to get some off
>> the beach, if the local water is unpolluted. I would boil them for a
>> few minutes to be safe.
>Ok, I will leaves the sand alone. The crab came with the live rock and I
>have been unable to identify it. It looks like the rock and has only one
>claw which is black. I suspect it's a baddiebut so far it doesn't seem
>to have done anything. I actually thought one night that it was eating
>some hair algae which is why I've held off doing anything about it.
>>
>>
>>>Thanks again fishnut - I really appreciate the help!
>>
>>
>> Reptiles in general, and snakes in particular, have never appealed to
>> me, either. I cannot see me ever keeping a moray eel in an aquarium.
>I picked this ******* up! It was in the bottom of an empty plant pot and
>I was wondering why it felt heavy and was dragging so I looked down and
>here it was hanging out the bottom flicking it's tongue at me. It was a
>very big one too.
>>
>> Most of your freshwater kit will be fine for marine tanks, but often
>> stronger water circulation is required, so people buy bigger pumps,
>> more powerful lighting etc.
>> At the moment, winter has come early here - freezing fog, thick frosts
>> at night until midday, and it says we are starting with snow by the
>> end of the week. I thought that would cheer you up ! Have you thought
>> about keeping your tank cool in your hot weather ?
>>
>> Regards, Fishnut.
>>
>
>I hope you like winter then? I dont' much go on it but then I've spent
>the last 12 years getting up to do the milking at 4.30 am every day and
>it gets down to -7°C here. I'm a few hours inland from the sea so we get
>hot summers and cold winters.
>I've set the tank up in a very cool area downstairs, often 10°C cooler
>than the rest of the house. I'm hoping not to have to spend $1000 on a
>chiller. A fan setup came with the tank which I'm hoping will blow the
>heat from the halides away sufficiently. I will just have to monitor it
>closely and be prepared for a quick drive to get a chiller if necessary.
>
>Cheers
>miskairal

You're a country girl, hey ? I used to enjoy snow and ice when I was
young, but not very much now. To be positive about things, though, we
cannot have sunshine until 10 PM in our summer without short days in
winter.
4.30 AM ? That is unknown to me, now. In my drinking heyday I used to
be staggering in at that time and later, on occasions. I was going to
say to you to site your tank in a room facing North if possible, but
that will probably be South, in Australia - anyway the coolest room.
Perhaps you can switch off the lights during the hottest part of the
day.
$ 440 Aus sounds a lot of money to me. As I said, try to get some
online Oz contacts. A lot depends on Australian import duties etc., or
if you know someone coming to Europe, ask them to bring some kit back
in their luggage.

There are often ways to avoid the cost of a chiller - icecubes in a
polybag is another.

Regards, Fishnut.

[miskairal]

wrote:

Snipped for the sake of size

>
> You're a country girl, hey ?
Born in Sydney, moved to country Qld as a teenager and fell in love with
animals.

I used to enjoy snow and ice when I was
> young, but not very much now. To be positive about things, though, we
> cannot have sunshine until 10 PM in our summer without short days in
> winter.
I can't imagine it being light that late - could have come in handy
whilst milking some times. The sun tends to set here fairly quickly I
think compared to further from the equator. One minute is't full sun and
hot and the next it's dark and often still hot :)

> 4.30 AM ? That is unknown to me, now. In my drinking heyday I used to
> be staggering in at that time and later, on occasions. I was going to
> say to you to site your tank in a room facing North if possible, but
> that will probably be South, in Australia - anyway the coolest room.
> Perhaps you can switch off the lights during the hottest part of the
> day.
There have been a few times when we've come home and gone straight to do
the morning milking and believe me it doesn't feel very good for the
next day or two.
The tank is in a room that is about 25' wide and it's almost against a
wall that is half underground and has no windows ie. the windows are
about 20' away. I'm going to set a computer up down there so I can sit
in the cool and watch my fish this summer.

> $ 440 Aus sounds a lot of money to me.
It is!

As I said, try to get some
> online Oz contacts. A lot depends on Australian import duties etc., or
> if you know someone coming to Europe, ask them to bring some kit back
> in their luggage.
Now there's a good excuse for me to travel.
>
> There are often ways to avoid the cost of a chiller - icecubes in a
> polybag is another.
Spent last summer making bottles of ice from rainwater for my freshwater
fish but I've put them all downstairs with the sal****er tank this year.
I hope not to be home as often ;)

I spent hours today getting out as much algae as I could but some of it
seems to have a long tendril with little round leaves. It seems to be
coming from the same strand as the feathery hair algae. That is only the
bits on the one rock. The stuff in the sand is all feathery. I also
grabbed a spare power head and aimed it at the hair algae but have
turned if off for the night as the little clowns (Mork and Mindy I have
named them) seemed like they couldn't find a place to sleep. I still
haven't actually changed water.

I'm having problems with the R/O unit in that it is rated at 90 litres a
day which I thought would be plenty but I didn't allow for the fact that
our water is pumped from the creek into a tank and then gets to the
house via a pressure pump. The R/O unit doesn't draw enough water to
cause the pressure pump to come on more than about every half hour so
there is not enough water going through unless I am using water
elsewhere and the pressure pump is working because of that. I have
tested the water that comes out of the R/O unit and phosphates and
nitrates are 0. Crikey life gets complicated. I spent so long
researching this before setting up and there is just so much stuff alive
on the rock that I can't stuff it up - lots of purples and dark reds and
orange and yellow, even bright blues and aqua coloured stuff. There is
also an algae looking thing similar to the hair alge that is a dark,
reddish, purple colour. Everything is growing and spreading. There is a
brain coral that I thought wasn't going to make it but I'm keeping my
fingers crossed that I'm not imagining the increase in colour I've seen
over the last week - it had gone fairly whitish.

Sorry to digress and babble on. Typical female I guess.
>
> Regards, Fishnut.
Cheers
miskairal

[pfishc]

Wet skimmate is not frothy, wetter bubbles that come out of the skimmer
and turn to liquid quickly which is the colour of tea.

[miskairal]

pfishc wrote:
> Wet skimmate is not frothy, wetter bubbles that come out of the skimmer
> and turn to liquid quickly which is the colour of tea.
>
Managed to do this last night and have about 300ml this morning.

[pfishc]

Your on the right track, good luck.

[miskairal]

pfishc wrote:
> Your on the right track, good luck.
>
Ta, just hope I remember to empty it as it has no overflow :)

[Captain Feedback]

I've had my (first) marine tank for a couple of years now, and still
consider myself a novice. While avoiding doing all of the "wrong"
things (introducing nutrients into the tank via overfeeding, using tap
water etc.) is obviously important, I'm wondering how much algae in a
new tank should simply be considered natural.

I remember seeing a picture of a new tank with the live rock completely
covered in algae ... I forget the book, something well-respected,
possibly "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" ... and the author points out
that the same tank is almost completely free of algae over a year
later. The implication seemed to be that even that large an amount of
algae was typical in a tank that wasn't yet biologically stable.

Anyway, my method was to keep the protein skimming going, get good
surface turbulence, use RO/DI water, dose with kalkwasser at night
(helps to export nutrients thru the skimmer, and inhibits pH swings),
try to suck out the algae when doing water changes, keep the alkalinity
and calcium at the right levels, and let things take their course.
Even with all of this, I've only recently (almost two years after
setting up my tank) felt like I've got the algae under control.

When I started out, I kept reading "only bad things happen quickly in
reef tanks" ... sure is true!

[miskairal]

Captain Feedback wrote:
> I've had my (first) marine tank for a couple of years now, and still
> consider myself a novice. While avoiding doing all of the "wrong"
> things (introducing nutrients into the tank via overfeeding, using tap
> water etc.) is obviously important, I'm wondering how much algae in a
> new tank should simply be considered natural.
>
> I remember seeing a picture of a new tank with the live rock completely
> covered in algae ... I forget the book, something well-respected,
> possibly "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" ... and the author points out
> that the same tank is almost completely free of algae over a year
> later. The implication seemed to be that even that large an amount of
> algae was typical in a tank that wasn't yet biologically stable.
>
> Anyway, my method was to keep the protein skimming going, get good
> surface turbulence, use RO/DI water, dose with kalkwasser at night
> (helps to export nutrients thru the skimmer, and inhibits pH swings),
> try to suck out the algae when doing water changes, keep the alkalinity
> and calcium at the right levels, and let things take their course.
> Even with all of this, I've only recently (almost two years after
> setting up my tank) felt like I've got the algae under control.
>
> When I started out, I kept reading "only bad things happen quickly in
> reef tanks" ... sure is true!
>
But wouldn't all that algae kill of other stuff on the rock? That's the
main thing that bothers me. I've read little about the kalkwasser and
don't really want to add anything to the tank that I don't have to. I
don't yet have a calcium test kit but will have soon. I want to take the
affected rock out and hold it in a tub of sal****er and pick it off by
hand but I'm haven't seen the crab for ages and I'm a whimp :)

Thanks for your info captain. I'll look further into the kalkwasser.

[Captain Feedback]

Miskairal;

My experience was that coralline algae gradually took over on exposed
parts of the rock, and the hair algae wouldn't grow there. You can
suction the algae off the rock when doing your water changes. I used a
rigid plastic tube connected to a flexible tube for siphoning water out
.... you can direct the end of the rigid tube against the algae on the
rock.

If you use RO/DI water, don't overfeed and don't overstock your tank,
there'll be so little nutrients available to the algae that eventually
it will just break up and be collected by your protein skimmer.

Regarding kalkwasser, I only started this several months ago, but I
wish I had started it sooner. I originally started it because my pH
was dropping too much in the evening, but also found that it caused my
protein skimmer to work better. Dosing kalkwasser is pretty easy to
do. I do it very low tech ... I buy some Kent Kalkwasser powder, mix a
teaspoonful into a plastic gallon jug of RO/DI water and shake it up to
dissolve it, pour it into a little ZooMed dripper (advertised as being
for reptile tanks), and let it sit on top of my canopy all day to
settle. After lights out, I start it dripping. It has the additional
benefit of replacing the water that evaporated the day before.

[[email protected]]

On 23 Nov 2005 20:07:49 -0800, "Captain Feedback" >
wrote:

>I've had my (first) marine tank for a couple of years now, and still
>consider myself a novice. While avoiding doing all of the "wrong"
>things (introducing nutrients into the tank via overfeeding, using tap
>water etc.) is obviously important, I'm wondering how much algae in a
>new tank should simply be considered natural.
>
If a garden does not grow weeds, it will not grow any flowers or
vegetables either. As the weeks / years pass, the tank will change.
Each alga will be doing it's best not just to survive, but prosper and
self-propagate. It is early days in miskairal's tank.

>I remember seeing a picture of a new tank with the live rock completely
>covered in algae ... I forget the book, something well-respected,
>possibly "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" ... and the author points out
>that the same tank is almost completely free of algae over a year
>later. The implication seemed to be that even that large an amount of
>algae was typical in a tank that wasn't yet biologically stable.
>
Correct book ! Volume 1, pages 114,115 and 163.

>Anyway, my method was to keep the protein skimming going, get good
>surface turbulence, use RO/DI water, dose with kalkwasser at night
>(helps to export nutrients thru the skimmer, and inhibits pH swings),
>try to suck out the algae when doing water changes, keep the alkalinity
>and calcium at the right levels, and let things take their course.
>Even with all of this, I've only recently (almost two years after
>setting up my tank) felt like I've got the algae under control.
>
>When I started out, I kept reading "only bad things happen quickly in
>reef tanks" ... sure is true!

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:20:31 +1000, miskairal <mehiding@Oz> wrote:

>Captain Feedback wrote:
>> I've had my (first) marine tank for a couple of years now, and still
>> consider myself a novice. While avoiding doing all of the "wrong"
>> things (introducing nutrients into the tank via overfeeding, using tap
>> water etc.) is obviously important, I'm wondering how much algae in a
>> new tank should simply be considered natural.
>>
>> I remember seeing a picture of a new tank with the live rock completely
>> covered in algae ... I forget the book, something well-respected,
>> possibly "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" ... and the author points out
>> that the same tank is almost completely free of algae over a year
>> later. The implication seemed to be that even that large an amount of
>> algae was typical in a tank that wasn't yet biologically stable.
>>
>> Anyway, my method was to keep the protein skimming going, get good
>> surface turbulence, use RO/DI water, dose with kalkwasser at night
>> (helps to export nutrients thru the skimmer, and inhibits pH swings),
>> try to suck out the algae when doing water changes, keep the alkalinity
>> and calcium at the right levels, and let things take their course.
>> Even with all of this, I've only recently (almost two years after
>> setting up my tank) felt like I've got the algae under control.
>>
>> When I started out, I kept reading "only bad things happen quickly in
>> reef tanks" ... sure is true!
>>
>But wouldn't all that algae kill of other stuff on the rock? That's the
>main thing that bothers me. I've read little about the kalkwasser and
>don't really want to add anything to the tank that I don't have to. I
>don't yet have a calcium test kit but will have soon. I want to take the
>affected rock out and hold it in a tub of sal****er and pick it off by
>hand but I'm haven't seen the crab for ages and I'm a whimp :)
>
>Thanks for your info captain. I'll look further into the kalkwasser.

Miskairal,

At present you have nothing that needs "Kalkwasser", so it is not
necessary to add it. If any of the coloured stuff on the liverock is
marine algae i.e. plants, as we understand them, this "higher" form
algae can help to starve the "lower" forms of algae (threadalgae) by
taking-up the available nutrients in the water.
The point is, do not worry about it at present !!

Regards, Fishnut.

[miskairal]

Ok, I'll leave it all alone for now, apart from water changes and see
what happens. I found my little clowns at opposite ends of the tank this
morning looking very lost and lonely. I gently herded one towards the
other and they looked so happy to see each other again.

miskairal wrote:
> Captain Feedback wrote:
>
>> I've had my (first) marine tank for a couple of years now, and still
>> consider myself a novice. While avoiding doing all of the "wrong"
>> things (introducing nutrients into the tank via overfeeding, using tap
>> water etc.) is obviously important, I'm wondering how much algae in a
>> new tank should simply be considered natural.
>>
>> I remember seeing a picture of a new tank with the live rock completely
>> covered in algae ... I forget the book, something well-respected,
>> possibly "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" ... and the author points out
>> that the same tank is almost completely free of algae over a year
>> later. The implication seemed to be that even that large an amount of
>> algae was typical in a tank that wasn't yet biologically stable.
>>
>> Anyway, my method was to keep the protein skimming going, get good
>> surface turbulence, use RO/DI water, dose with kalkwasser at night
>> (helps to export nutrients thru the skimmer, and inhibits pH swings),
>> try to suck out the algae when doing water changes, keep the alkalinity
>> and calcium at the right levels, and let things take their course.
>> Even with all of this, I've only recently (almost two years after
>> setting up my tank) felt like I've got the algae under control.
>>
>> When I started out, I kept reading "only bad things happen quickly in
>> reef tanks" ... sure is true!
>>
> But wouldn't all that algae kill of other stuff on the rock? That's the
> main thing that bothers me. I've read little about the kalkwasser and
> don't really want to add anything to the tank that I don't have to. I
> don't yet have a calcium test kit but will have soon. I want to take the
> affected rock out and hold it in a tub of sal****er and pick it off by
> hand but I'm haven't seen the crab for ages and I'm a whimp :)
>
> Thanks for your info captain. I'll look further into the kalkwasser.

[Wayne Sallee]

I've been using lime water for many years, started using
it back before anyone that I knew of at the time ever used
it. I remember when I thought of the idea, and ran the
idea across a pet store employee, and the employee said,
"I would not do that, you don't want the water to be too
limey."

I now sell it in my store in dollar bags. I sold one to an
x cop one day, and he looked at it, and said "Wow, that
even looks like the real thing."

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Captain Feedback wrote on 11/24/2005 9:28 AM:
> Miskairal;
>
> My experience was that coralline algae gradually took over on exposed
> parts of the rock, and the hair algae wouldn't grow there. You can
> suction the algae off the rock when doing your water changes. I used a
> rigid plastic tube connected to a flexible tube for siphoning water out
> .... you can direct the end of the rigid tube against the algae on the
> rock.
>
> If you use RO/DI water, don't overfeed and don't overstock your tank,
> there'll be so little nutrients available to the algae that eventually
> it will just break up and be collected by your protein skimmer.
>
> Regarding kalkwasser, I only started this several months ago, but I
> wish I had started it sooner. I originally started it because my pH
> was dropping too much in the evening, but also found that it caused my
> protein skimmer to work better. Dosing kalkwasser is pretty easy to
> do. I do it very low tech ... I buy some Kent Kalkwasser powder, mix a
> teaspoonful into a plastic gallon jug of RO/DI water and shake it up to
> dissolve it, pour it into a little ZooMed dripper (advertised as being
> for reptile tanks), and let it sit on top of my canopy all day to
> settle. After lights out, I start it dripping. It has the additional
> benefit of replacing the water that evaporated the day before.
>