Biowheel 330 enough for 55 gal?

[John Pelura, III]

I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.


But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.

I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.

I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
everything.

I'm not going back there again.

Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?

Thanks for any guidance.

John

[Len]

I've used the Biowheel 330 in my two 55 gallon tanks with guppies and
with firemouth cichlids and have been pleased with the results. My tanks
are not planted.

John Pelura, III wrote:
> I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.
>
>
> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> everything.
>
> I'm not going back there again.
>
> Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> John

[Koi-lo]

"John Pelura, III" > wrote in message
...
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
=======================
Right after something like THAT I wouldn't have bothered to ask him another
question. Dishonest fish store owners and clueless employees are the last
people to ask about anything. The only thing I ask them is when did the
fish come in. Even then I've gotten the wrong answer. :(
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

I suspect it depends on how stocked your tank is - if it's
overstocked, you want more filtration, if it's understocked, you can
get by with less filtration. But that's just my guess. I've also
read (here, I think) that you need to take into account the actual
water flow as opposed to what's on the box (as filter media will slow
the flow (so to speak)). Don't ask me how you measure flow.

IMO, from a logic standpoint alone, I'd say that it's good to have
redundant filters, in case one stops working while you're away, but
that's a completely different discussion.

FWIW,

Liz


"John Pelura, III" wrote:
>
> Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>

[Daniel Morrow]

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Hash: SHA1

Bottom posted.

- --
You can find my public key at https://keyserver1.pgp.com
"John Pelura, III" > wrote in message
...
> I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter
came
> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank
with
> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough
filter.
> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per
hour.
>
>
> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of
about
> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a
SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When
I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with
some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store,
I
> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> everything.
>
> I'm not going back there again.
>
> Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> John

I know that some canister filters only need a X 3.4 turnover rate and
I doubt you don't have enough filtration unless you are overstocked
enough. I would recommend you get a cheap extra filter of some kind
for redundancy though. A X 10 turnover rate sounds overkill to me
except that I think some smaller (super small - like 2.5 gallons)
tanks with certain fish MIGHT need that much filtration. If your
penguin 330 biowheel is functioning 100% you should be ok. Good luck
ad later!

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[fish lover]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:27:15 GMT, "John Pelura, III"
> wrote:
Before I have my current tank, I had a 55 g and 330 plus the UGF and
they worked fine. Never had any problems with the water.
>I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
>up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
>12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
>He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.
>
>
>But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
>suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
>25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
>I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
>and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
>tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
>made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
>I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
>heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
>everything.
>
>I'm not going back there again.
>
>Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>
>Thanks for any guidance.
>
>John

[John Pelura, III]

Thanks to all who posted a reply. I knew the guy was full of s..... I
thought after 5 years something would have changed. If any of you shop
at Fishman in Delaware, that's the place.

> I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.
>
>
> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> everything.
>
> I'm not going back there again.
>
> Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> John

[Dick]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:27:15 GMT, "John Pelura, III"
> wrote:

>I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
>up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
>12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
>He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.
>
Although my 75 gallon has two 330 Penguins, I have other tanks with
smaller filters. In particular, I have one 10 gallon tank with a
Whisper Jr. It is a low volume filter to begin with, but I noticed
that it's output was very low so I cleaned it, but flow remained very
low. I eventually replaced it and the flow went bact up. What caught
my attention was nothing in the tank changed even though the flow was
just a dribble.

I put more faith in my 20% twice weekly water changes.

dick
>
>But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
>suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
>25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
>I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
>and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
>tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
>made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
>I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
>heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
>everything.
>
>I'm not going back there again.
>
>Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>
>Thanks for any guidance.
>
>John

[NetMax]

"John Pelura, III" > wrote in message
...
>I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.

You are not really filtering a 55g. You are filtering for 12 Tiger barbs
(who happen to be in a planted 55g). This is important as 12 Tiger barbs
make the same amount of waste in a 20g as in a 200g. Twelve T barbs are
not a very big bio-load on a 330, especially in a planted tank.

> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> everything.
>
> I'm not going back there again.
>
> Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?

No. Powerfilters are typically in the x4 to x5 range, canisters x2 to
x4. You go x10 for cichlid tanks with lots of rockwork (for mechanical
filtering and forcing water through the rocks).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> John

[Eric]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:27:15 -0600, John Pelura, III wrote
(in article >):

> I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.

Ten turnovers per hour is way above what most filter manufacturers recommend.
They recommend about 4 or 5 turnovers. I posted the specs of several
manufacturers a couple of months ago.

There may be some advantages to a higher turnover for some tanks, but I'd say
you're being oversold unless you told the LFS guy about some particular
problem for which this higher rate of filtration would be an appropriate
solution.


> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.

A filter that does 4 turnovers per hour and 25% weekly changes should give
you excellent water quality, but you could do with less water changing in
more lightly loaded tanks and still have top quality water.

>
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.

The guy is beginning to sound a bit crooked here.

> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> everything.

Well, I'd have to almost agree here. Regular partial water changes do solve a
heck of a lot of problems.


-E

[fish lover]

I agree with the 4 to 5 turnover per hour. I used to have a Fluval 404
for my 125 g tank, which only gave about 2.5 turnover per hour. I had
lot of problems with the water quality. I added another Fluval 403,
which pushed the turnover to between 4 and 5. The water is in much
better shape now.
>On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:27:15 -0600, John Pelura, III wrote
>(in article >):
>
>> I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
>> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
>> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
>> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.
>
>Ten turnovers per hour is way above what most filter manufacturers recommend.
> They recommend about 4 or 5 turnovers. I posted the specs of several
>manufacturers a couple of months ago.
>
>There may be some advantages to a higher turnover for some tanks, but I'd say
>you're being oversold unless you told the LFS guy about some particular
>problem for which this higher rate of filtration would be an appropriate
>solution.
>
>
>> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
>> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
>> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
>A filter that does 4 turnovers per hour and 25% weekly changes should give
>you excellent water quality, but you could do with less water changing in
>more lightly loaded tanks and still have top quality water.
>
>>
>> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
>> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
>> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
>> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
>The guy is beginning to sound a bit crooked here.
>
>> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
>> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
>> everything.
>
>Well, I'd have to almost agree here. Regular partial water changes do solve a
>heck of a lot of problems.
>
>
>-E

[John Pelura, III]

In article
> > I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> > and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> > tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> > made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
> The guy is beginning to sound a bit crooked here.
>
> > I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
> > heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> > everything.
>
> Well, I'd have to almost agree here. Regular partial water changes do solve a
> heck of a lot of problems.

I don't know if I specificed in my first post, but I told him that I
did partial water changes. When he told his employee that comment about
solving everything, he was being sarcastic. I've been consulting these
lists and for a while and know that partial water changes help. The way
I understood the LFS guy was that if I had 10X filtration I wouldn't
have to do the water changes. I know, or at least think that that is
not true.

[Koi-lo]

"John Pelura, III" > wrote in message
...
> I understood the LFS guy was that if I had 10X filtration I wouldn't
> have to do the water changes. I know, or at least think that that is
> not true.
====================
No matter what kind of filtration you have nothing takes the place of
partial water changes. They remove what filters can't remove.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Eric]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:14:04 -0600, John Pelura, III wrote
(in article >):


> I don't know if I specificed in my first post, but I told him that I
> did partial water changes. When he told his employee that comment about
> solving everything, he was being sarcastic. I've been consulting these
> lists and for a while and know that partial water changes help. The way
> I understood the LFS guy was that if I had 10X filtration I wouldn't
> have to do the water changes. I know, or at least think that that is
> not true.

If that's what he implied in his sarcasm, he's just wrong. There are things
that filters can't do, like remove nitrate and phosphorus. An underfiltered
tank with frequent partial water changes will be far better off than an
overfiltered tank with no changes.

-E

[fish lover]

I had almost the same advise from my LFS. The guy told me since I had
a big tank with plants, there was no need for water change, maybe once
a year or so would do.

I followed his advise for about 5 weeks before I notice the rainbows
were really in trouble. After that, I did my weekly 30% water changes.

I'm now doing 30% water change every 3 to 4 days since I'm now having
the discus because they require better water quality. So far (about 2
months now) I only lost one fish because of the stress of the
shipment.

As the other poster said before, there are things that you can not
remove with filters. Partial water change is the only way to go. I
think you should really be careful with what the LFS tells you. Always
check with people here to make sure.

>In article
>> > I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
>> > and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
>> > tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
>> > made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>>
>> The guy is beginning to sound a bit crooked here.
>>
>> > I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
>> > heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
>> > everything.
>>
>> Well, I'd have to almost agree here. Regular partial water changes do solve a
>> heck of a lot of problems.
>
>I don't know if I specificed in my first post, but I told him that I
>did partial water changes. When he told his employee that comment about
>solving everything, he was being sarcastic. I've been consulting these
>lists and for a while and know that partial water changes help. The way
>I understood the LFS guy was that if I had 10X filtration I wouldn't
>have to do the water changes. I know, or at least think that that is
>not true.

[James Evans]

Like everything else in this hobby, "It Depends." :)

For your setup, 55 gallon, 12 smallish fish, planted.... the filter you
have should be fine. I've found the 10x rule to work well for large stocks
of larger fish in non-planted tanks (eg. a cichild tank.) It certainly
doesn't hurt to have extra filtration on a non-planted tank... I've never
heard of a tank being too clean. :) Too much can be a problem with planted
tanks in certain situations (too much current or too much carbon.)

James

"John Pelura, III" > wrote in message
...
>I recently went to a LFS and was talking with the owner. My filter came
> up in conversation and he said that with my 55 gal, planted tank with
> 12 tiger barbs, my Penguin Biowheel 330 was not a large enough filter.
> He said that the water in my tank should be "changed" 10 time per hour.
>
>
> But, I think I bought the fitler there about 7 years ago and he
> suggested the 330. I told him that I do a weekly water change of about
> 25% and he said I should still consider adding a filter.
>
> I stopped going to this guy about 5 years ago when looking for a SAE
> and he tried to sell me a CAE and said it was the same thing. When I
> tried to tell him the latin name for the SAE, he then came up with some
> made up name along the lines of something gumchewem.
>
> I figured I try back there, but as I was walking out of the store, I
> heard him comment to another employee about water changes solving
> everything.
>
> I'm not going back there again.
>
> Was he correct in the advice about the 10X per hour comment?
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> John