Ich? Fungus? Treatment? Questions...

[FishNoob]

History:

Monday morning, we noticed a black molly with white spots all over -
went and looked at all the fish disease sites I'd bookmarked and
phoned an expert who recommended Protozin. First dose of Protozin on
Monday night. By that time, the white stuff looked more like cotton-
wool (so fungus?); Protozin says it deals with both whitespot and
fungal infection.

Tuesday: second dose of Protozin. Molly looking better but still a
substantial amount of white on her.

Wednesday: third dose of Protozin. Still lots of spots, though
perhaps less than Tuesday?

Thursday: supposed to be a "rest-day" from the Protozin, but molly
still looking bad, so I did one more dose, planning to "rest" Friday
and Saturday.

Friday (today): There are still lots of white spots on the black
molly. Should we be seeing results by now - i.e., should the spots on
the black molly be gone, or at least visibly going?

The molly is behaving normally, doesn't seem distressed, is eating
etc. None of the other fish look affected - apart from one silver
molly, they're all fish on which the white would be easily visible.

--
FishNoob

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> History:
>
> Monday morning, we noticed a black molly with white spots all over -
> went and looked at all the fish disease sites I'd bookmarked and
> phoned an expert who recommended Protozin. First dose of Protozin on
> Monday night. By that time, the white stuff looked more like cotton-
> wool (so fungus?); Protozin says it deals with both whitespot and
> fungal infection.
>
> Tuesday: second dose of Protozin. Molly looking better but still a
> substantial amount of white on her.
>
> Wednesday: third dose of Protozin. Still lots of spots, though
> perhaps less than Tuesday?
>
> Thursday: supposed to be a "rest-day" from the Protozin, but molly
> still looking bad, so I did one more dose, planning to "rest" Friday
> and Saturday.
>
> Friday (today): There are still lots of white spots on the black
> molly. Should we be seeing results by now - i.e., should the spots on
> the black molly be gone, or at least visibly going?
>
> The molly is behaving normally, doesn't seem distressed, is eating
> etc. None of the other fish look affected - apart from one silver
> molly, they're all fish on which the white would be easily visible.
>

Hi,
Having just lost my Clown Loaches to the dreaded Ich/White Spot combined
with Velvet I'm not sure that I can really advise you how to treat it
successfully except offer my sympathy. I was using Protozin which should
have treated both the White Spot and the Velvet but didn't ever clear
either. In reality I don't know whether it was the parasites or the
medication that killed them in the end :-( Interpet also do a range of
medications...If the Protozin doesn't clear it it would be worth putting
some carbon in the filter for 24-36 hours, then doing a 30% water change
and then try a different medication. I did once manage to clear it in
the past by switching medication...

The other thing is that you need to be sure of your
diagnosis...originally my Clowns had Ich but this masked the Velvet that
I believe finished them off in the end. If it is ich the spots look like
grains of salt/sugar, if it is velvet the spots are more like a fine
powder, if it is fungus it is more fuzzy.

Sorry I can't be more help. Hope your Mollie does well
Gill

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> The other thing is that you need to be sure of your
> diagnosis...originally my Clowns had Ich but this masked the Velvet that
> I believe finished them off in the end. If it is ich the spots look like
> grains of salt/sugar, if it is velvet the spots are more like a fine
> powder, if it is fungus it is more fuzzy.

Hm...it may be velvet, or velvet combined with fungus (which would
explain why the cottonwool appearance has gone but the white patches
remain). What would be your med of choice for treating velvet, Gill,
since we're both in the UK?

Does velvet spread through the tank as ich does?

--
FishNoob

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> The other thing is that you need to be sure of your
> diagnosis...originally my Clowns had Ich but this masked the Velvet that
> I believe finished them off in the end. If it is ich the spots look like
> grains of salt/sugar, if it is velvet the spots are more like a fine
> powder, if it is fungus it is more fuzzy.

Okay, having found a webpage with pics -
http://www.thefishworld.co.uk/id62.htm - I don't think it's velvet. I
think we definitely had a fungal infection, and now we may be dealing
with parasites of some sort - both of which the Protozin should have
taken care of, but maybe the parasites in question just take longer
to treat. I also notice some fin-rot on the affected molly *sigh* so
will have to look for a med for that today - any suggestions?

The molly in question is also heavily pregnant, which I imagine is
adding another stress for her :-(

--
FishNoob

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>The other thing is that you need to be sure of your
>>diagnosis...originally my Clowns had Ich but this masked the Velvet that
>>I believe finished them off in the end. If it is ich the spots look like
>>grains of salt/sugar, if it is velvet the spots are more like a fine
>>powder, if it is fungus it is more fuzzy.
>
>
> Okay, having found a webpage with pics -
> http://www.thefishworld.co.uk/id62.htm - I don't think it's velvet. I
> think we definitely had a fungal infection, and now we may be dealing
> with parasites of some sort - both of which the Protozin should have
> taken care of, but maybe the parasites in question just take longer
> to treat. I also notice some fin-rot on the affected molly *sigh* so
> will have to look for a med for that today - any suggestions?
>
> The molly in question is also heavily pregnant, which I imagine is
> adding another stress for her :-(
>

You don't want to mix meds in the tank. I would personally finish the
Protozin course to make sure all the ich has gone. I would then evaluate
which fish are affected and whether quarantine is an option. If it is
just the one fish I would try and QT her and just medicated her. If it
is all (or multiple fish) I would put some carbon in the filter to pull
out the Protozin (a day after dosing it), do a water change and then add
a more specific fungus medication (I think interpet do one).

The key, IMO, is to ensure that the water quality is spot on. Frequent
water changes may help her more than any medication.

Gill

[FishNoob]

In article >,
says...
> You don't want to mix meds in the tank. I would personally finish the
> Protozin course to make sure all the ich has gone. I would then evaluate
> which fish are affected and whether quarantine is an option. If it is
> just the one fish I would try and QT her and just medicated her. If it
> is all (or multiple fish) I would put some carbon in the filter to pull
> out the Protozin (a day after dosing it), do a water change and then add
> a more specific fungus medication (I think interpet do one).
>
> The key, IMO, is to ensure that the water quality is spot on. Frequent
> water changes may help her more than any medication.

I'll be doing a water change this evening (house is full at the
minute - we'd 17 kids sleeping here last night!). I'll be able to
quarantine from Tuesday on, as I'm getting a larger aquarium on
Tuesday evening, though I wasn't planning on setting it up so
quickly, but I can put some water in it, and it will come with an
already-seeded filter, so I can use it as a quarantine for now, and
put her back in the smaller tank once we've licked the problem
*hopes*. So far it seems to be just the one fish - none of the others
are showing signs of any problems.

Is the fin-rot caused by the fungus, or is that a separate, bacterial
problem that needs to be treated with an antibiotic?

Thanks for all your help.

--
FishNoob

[Gill Passman]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>You don't want to mix meds in the tank. I would personally finish the
>>Protozin course to make sure all the ich has gone. I would then evaluate
>>which fish are affected and whether quarantine is an option. If it is
>>just the one fish I would try and QT her and just medicated her. If it
>>is all (or multiple fish) I would put some carbon in the filter to pull
>>out the Protozin (a day after dosing it), do a water change and then add
>>a more specific fungus medication (I think interpet do one).
>>
>>The key, IMO, is to ensure that the water quality is spot on. Frequent
>>water changes may help her more than any medication.
>
>
> I'll be doing a water change this evening (house is full at the
> minute - we'd 17 kids sleeping here last night!). I'll be able to
> quarantine from Tuesday on, as I'm getting a larger aquarium on
> Tuesday evening, though I wasn't planning on setting it up so
> quickly, but I can put some water in it, and it will come with an
> already-seeded filter, so I can use it as a quarantine for now, and
> put her back in the smaller tank once we've licked the problem
> *hopes*. So far it seems to be just the one fish - none of the others
> are showing signs of any problems.
>
> Is the fin-rot caused by the fungus, or is that a separate, bacterial
> problem that needs to be treated with an antibiotic?
>
> Thanks for all your help.
>

My experience with damaged fins has been limited to the damage that gets
inflicted by other fish in the Mbuna tank - in this case I don't treat
and just keep an eye on the fish for signs of infection and they tend to
grow back

I've just done some quick googling and yep it does seem that the fin-rot
might have resulted from the fungus or the ich....Found a good link
which has some good info:-

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/finrot.htm

Antibiotics are only available on prescription in the UK so that would
mean a trip to the vet - which will get very expensive. I think I would
be inclined to go the QT route and ensure that the water quality is the
best. Some salt in the water may help - not only because of the
antisceptic quality but also it will help relieve any stress.

Good luck
Gill

PS "17 kids" eekk....I try to limit mine to one friend each and that can
get chaotic.... :-)

[Tynk]

FishNoob wrote:
> History:
>
> Monday morning, we noticed a black molly with white spots all over -
> went and looked at all the fish disease sites I'd bookmarked and
> phoned an expert who recommended Protozin. First dose of Protozin on
> Monday night. By that time, the white stuff looked more like cotton-
> wool (so fungus?); Protozin says it deals with both whitespot and
> fungal infection.
>
> Tuesday: second dose of Protozin. Molly looking better but still a
> substantial amount of white on her.
>
> Wednesday: third dose of Protozin. Still lots of spots, though
> perhaps less than Tuesday?
>
> Thursday: supposed to be a "rest-day" from the Protozin, but molly
> still looking bad, so I did one more dose, planning to "rest" Friday
> and Saturday.
>
> Friday (today): There are still lots of white spots on the black
> molly. Should we be seeing results by now - i.e., should the spots on
> the black molly be gone, or at least visibly going?
>
> The molly is behaving normally, doesn't seem distressed, is eating
> etc. None of the other fish look affected - apart from one silver
> molly, they're all fish on which the white would be easily visible.
>
> --
> FishNoob
Hi ther FishNoob.
Personally,
I would switch to Quick Cure. It kills off many more parasites than
just Ich (it just doesn't label them and they should).
I would aslo treat for 7-10 days, and not the 2-3 days it says on the
bottle.
Before changing meds, if you choose to do so, I recommend doing a 40%
water change if you haven't already done one.
Run fresh carbon for a few hours and then remove the carbon from the
filter/s.
Then dose with Q.C.
You didn't mention the temp of the tank and whether or not salt is
added to it already, since you have a Molly or Mollies.
Are there any other tank mates in this tank? Please list all, as Q.C.
can be lethal to some species.
You mentioned the Molly also had what looked like "cotton wool" as
well.
Is there a way you can add a picture of the fish, as a bacterial
infection can look like fungus to many hobbyists. It's often called
"body fungus", but it's actually bacterial.
True fungus looks very different and is quite possible that's what the
Molly has. Often fungus will grow on the wounds left behind from
parasites or injuries, etc.
Good luck.

[FishNoob]

In article . com>,
says...
> I would switch to Quick Cure. It kills off many more parasites than
> just Ich (it just doesn't label them and they should).

I will look today and see if I can find that; I've not seen it in our
LFS. I'm pretty limited in terms of where to buy stuff; there's only
one LFS in easy distance, and one other (part of a large chain with a
not-great reputation) a bit further.

> I would aslo treat for 7-10 days, and not the 2-3 days it says on the
> bottle.

That's kind of what I've been doing with the Protozin, just on the
basis of intuition.

> Before changing meds, if you choose to do so, I recommend doing a 40%
> water change if you haven't already done one.
> Run fresh carbon for a few hours and then remove the carbon from the
> filter/s.

I don't know if there's any carbon in my filter, or how I would put
some in, but I'll have a look.

> Then dose with Q.C.
> You didn't mention the temp of the tank and whether or not salt is
> added to it already, since you have a Molly or Mollies.

I haven't added salt; there seems to be a lot of disagreement about
that, but I'll take your advice. Would ordinary pure salt (i.e. stuff
for cooking but without additives) be okay?

> Are there any other tank mates in this tank? Please list all, as Q.C.
> can be lethal to some species.

Just the mollies, danios and a couple of neon tetras.

> You mentioned the Molly also had what looked like "cotton wool" as
> well.
> Is there a way you can add a picture of the fish, as a bacterial
> infection can look like fungus to many hobbyists. It's often called
> "body fungus", but it's actually bacterial.
> True fungus looks very different and is quite possible that's what the
> Molly has. Often fungus will grow on the wounds left behind from
> parasites or injuries, etc.

My camera isn't working on zoom :-( - I'm watching for a good deal on
a new camera at the minute, so I can't add a pic. The cotton-wool
effect has now gone, and there are just patches of white left. I do
think they're getting smaller though, so if I can't find Quick Cure
today I'll add Protozin again.

Thanks for all the help.

--
FishNoob

[Koi-lo]

"FishNoob" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article . com>,
> I will look today and see if I can find that; I've not seen it in our
> LFS. I'm pretty limited in terms of where to buy stuff; there's only
> one LFS in easy distance, and one other (part of a large chain with a
> not-great reputation) a bit further.
=========================
If you have a Wal*Mart store where you live look there. I'm positive I saw
QuickCure in their pet dept. recently.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tynk]

FishNoob wrote:
> In article . com>,
> says...
> > I would switch to Quick Cure. It kills off many more parasites than
> > just Ich (it just doesn't label them and they should).
>
> I will look today and see if I can find that; I've not seen it in our
> LFS. I'm pretty limited in terms of where to buy stuff; there's only
> one LFS in easy distance, and one other (part of a large chain with a
> not-great reputation) a bit further.
>
> > I would aslo treat for 7-10 days, and not the 2-3 days it says on the
> > bottle.
>
> That's kind of what I've been doing with the Protozin, just on the
> basis of intuition.
>
>
> Any tips as to how to make sure the betta gets some food (besides
> waiting until the mollies produce live betta food)?
> > Then dose with Q.C.
> > You didn't mention the temp of the tank and whether or not salt is
> > added to it already, since you have a Molly or Mollies.
>
> I haven't added salt; there seems to be a lot of disagreement about
> that, but I'll take your advice. Would ordinary pure salt (i.e. stuff
> for cooking but without additives) be okay?
>
> > Are there any other tank mates in this tank? Please list all, as Q.C.
> > can be lethal to some species.
>
> Just the mollies, danios and a couple of neon tetras.
>
> > You mentioned the Molly also had what looked like "cotton wool" as
> > well.
> > Is there a way you can add a picture of the fish, as a bacterial
> > infection can look like fungus to many hobbyists. It's often called
> > "body fungus", but it's actually bacterial.
> > True fungus looks very different and is quite possible that's what the
> > Molly has. Often fungus will grow on the wounds left behind from
> > parasites or injuries, etc.
>
> My camera isn't working on zoom :-( - I'm watching for a good deal on
> a new camera at the minute, so I can't add a pic. The cotton-wool
> effect has now gone, and there are just patches of white left. I do
> think they're getting smaller though, so if I can't find Quick Cure
> today I'll add Protozin again.
>
> Thanks for all the help.
>
> --
> FishNoob
>
> Any tips as to how to make sure the betta gets some food (besides
> waiting until the mollies produce live betta food)?
Let me know what type of filter you have and whether or not it has a
cartridge that you just put into the filter housing, or maybe if it has
a separate are of filter floss and then another compartment that has
carbon in it.
Either way I can tell you how to remove it.
If your filter does has carbon in it, it may have absorbed the
medication, and that's why it took so long for the meds to start
working.

> I haven't added salt; there seems to be a lot of disagreement about
> that, but I'll take your advice. Would ordinary pure salt (i.e. stuff
> for cooking but without additives) be okay?

No disagreement when it comes to Mollies...they need salt.
However, I'm not sure about the Danios. Neons that I have had never had
a problem with it.
As for regular salt, I'd stick with aquarium salt.
Depending on the type of fish in the tank, for fish that need it
(mollies) I use a tablespoon per 5 gallons of water. Half that for
other types like Bettas, Guppies, Swords, etc.
That's just my routine with those other types, as many may use the
tablespoon per 5g's for them, and some may not use any salt.
I also let the salt disolve in a bit of tank water before adding it to
the tank.

Being that you have Tetras in your tank you'll need to half dose Quick
Cure if you find it.
This may need to be done with the medication you now have as well...so
check the label.