What are your major bug bears about you LFS

[Gill Passman]

OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
any ideas as to how matters could improve....

Thanks
Gill

[Steve]

Gill Passman wrote:
> OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
> has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
> service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
> wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
> starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
> places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
> picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
> ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...
>
> So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
> any ideas as to how matters could improve....
>
> Thanks
> Gill

Well, there is (was??) a small aquarium shop in this town where the
proprietor and his wife smoked heavily behind the counter. They did have
some healthy fish and I bought rasboras there long ago.

One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death;
I assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or
so. This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to
see - an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad
for business, no doubt.

I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this group).

It's a true story. Top that, anyone?

Steve

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
> has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
> and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
> most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
> the major complaints....please don't name the places right now - we don't
> want any lawsuits but let's get an overall picture of what we feel is
> wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at ways to address it....even
> if this takes years it is surely worth doing...

# My biggest bugaboo are the stores that hire clueless people who either
give no advice and ask no questions when someone buys a pet (fish, bird,
hamster whatever) or give wrong information. These employees and employers
either just don't care or they don't know anything about the creatures
they're selling. You can't get worse than claiming you can put 1/2 a dozen
goldfish in a 10 gallon tank or 2 in a small 1/2 gallon bowl. :-( I wont
mention the name of the store where I overheard these two statements.

> So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with any
> ideas as to how matters could improve....

# I think there would be *some* improvements if everyone would seek out the
store manager or owner and B*TCH like crazy every time they saw abuse.

> Thanks
> Gill
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tynk]

Gill Passman wrote:
> OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
> has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
> service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
> wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
> starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
> places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
> picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
> ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...
>
> So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
> any ideas as to how matters could improve....
>
> Thanks
> Gill

Of course the main things are poor conditions for the creatures and
bogus, poor or non existant information about the critters they have
and sell.

There are too many instances of poor informaiton I have heard being
given by employees and the customer taking it all in as if were facts

Some of the most ignornorant info I have heard from pet shop employees:

*Bettas live in tiny mudd puddles. They prefer small spaces.
*They would DIE if put into filtered tanks.
*They would DIE if put into anything larger than an Ivy bowl.
*They can never be housed with any other fish or they will shred or
kill the other fish.
*You can fit 4 Oscars in a 20gH. (customer..won't they grow too large
for that?)..They only grow to the size of the tank.
*1" of fish per gallon of water is the stocking rule.
*Fish only grow to the size of the tank
*Stuning a fish doens't really harm them, it just makes them smaller.
*Goldfish can live in fish bowls.
* Sure, you could house about 4 Goldfish in that 3G Eclipse.
*You can keep Goldfish and Tropicals in the same tank. They're all
happy, so it's fine.
*If it wasn't fine to house Bettas in those tiny, fancy containers then
they wouldn't make them.
*As long as it's labeled "African Cichlid" you can keep them together.
*Pronouncing Betta "bait-uh" instead of "bet-uh".
*Sure...you could buy all these fish for that size tank in your cart.
*Female Bettas are colorless and ugly.
*Angelfish are mean, nasty fish.
*African Clawed Frogs are perfectly fine to go into your 10g tank. No,
it won't hurt your Guppies.
*Sure, I'll bag that Clownfish for your son's bowl.
*No, Chinese algae eaters do not get mean and won't harm your fish.
That's a myth.
*No, it's only male Bettas that are aggressive.
*Ah, it's just a fish. It's not like it's a dog or cat.

[Mary Burns]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
> has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
> and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
> most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
> the major complaints....please don't name the places right now - we don't
> want any lawsuits but let's get an overall picture of what we feel is
> wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at ways to address it....even
> if this takes years it is surely worth doing...
>
> So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with any
> ideas as to how matters could improve....
>
> Thanks
> Gill


I am very lucky to have 2 really good LFS in Luton, Beds, UK. One even keeps
single male bettas in plants or tanks if appropiate with other fish...no
nasty death cups at all. I can get live bloodworm, daphnia and brineshrimp
at the weekend. Their advice is very good at the start, but perhaps with the
internet we learn more about certain fish as we go along. I recently went to
a large superstore which was opening, and an angel from there was in water
with high nitrite and nitrate. I only tested the water as it was out of town
and perhaps a different Ph. It is great for supplies but they have more sad,
dead fish in their tanks than my local ones. Of course they have a huge
variety compared with local ones, but are they as well? I had 4 angels and
she was my 5th. She has died after a few weeks, I expect from the water she
was in. My others are from local breeders, not flown half way round the
world, and are nearly 2 years old, so I must be doing something ok. It was
very sad to loose her, as she was very pretty, but never left quarantine.
The huge superstore was probably still cycling their tanks and it's
unfortunate for the first fish they get, but probably ok now at it was
earlier this year. My 10 clowns have come from both local shops, all happy
and well, so they must be really good LFS. One looks a really nice shop, but
one looks less attractive as a shop, but their fish are just as healthy and
well cared for. Mary

[Tedd Jacobs]

"Gill Passman" wrote...
> OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
> has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
> and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
> most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
> the major complaints.... [...]

the sixteen year-old kid that knows more about aquaria in his whole two
weeks of working part-time than everyone here combined.

[Justice]

Tedd Jacobs wrote:
> "Gill Passman" wrote...
>
>>OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
>>has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of service
>>and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is wrong...and
>>most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a starter lets look at
>>the major complaints.... [...]
>
>
> the sixteen year-old kid that knows more about aquaria in his whole two
> weeks of working part-time than everyone here combined.
>
>
Like one store here, nobody over I'll give them credit and say 18. most
fish were stuck to the filter intake screens eather dead or dieing in
about 100 fish I'd say 10 looked heathy if thats wat you call it. Never
went back!

[John D. Goulden]

> One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
> piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death; I
> assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or so.
> This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to see -
> an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad for
> business, no doubt.
>
> I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
> back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
> not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this group).

I guess I don't see any problem with this. Goldfish are often sold as
feeders and I certainly sacrificed enough of them to big oscars back when a
friend had them. Of course the oscars just took them whole and didn't nibble
them to death like the piranha probably did. When you raise carnivorous
critters, you often need to feed them live meat. I've fed many live rabbits
and mice to snakes and birds of prey as well. My children are well
acquainted with the circle of life.

--
John Goulden
mostly goldies, guppies, swordtails and bettas

[Gill Passman]

John D. Goulden wrote:
>>One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
>>piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death; I
>>assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or so.
>>This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to see -
>>an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad for
>>business, no doubt.
>>
>>I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
>>back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
>>not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this group).
>
>
> I guess I don't see any problem with this. Goldfish are often sold as
> feeders and I certainly sacrificed enough of them to big oscars back when a
> friend had them. Of course the oscars just took them whole and didn't nibble
> them to death like the piranha probably did. When you raise carnivorous
> critters, you often need to feed them live meat. I've fed many live rabbits
> and mice to snakes and birds of prey as well. My children are well
> acquainted with the circle of life.
>
It is a fact of life that some fish eat other fish...most humans eat
fish and meat....

Your choice is to educate your children in the facts of life...ie.
animals eat other animals...but you can and would want to do that
yourself...my kids know that the cat goes out and kills mice, rats and
birds and once a grass snake shoved on the bed of my son when he was
only 5. They best learn this in an environment that we as parents
control. You don't really want others forcing this on them when you are
not prepared...

Having this forced upon a young child in what you are hoping will be a
nice, pleasant journey to look at the nice fishies is another thing. I
know damn well that my LFS will empty the pretty tank with the mollie
and platy fry he had today into the tank that has his Oscar and maybe
his rays....he doesn't do it when any customers are there....he does
feed them sure but with what we could class as sanatised food such as
frozen mussels and fish that are dead and frozen already....

Personally, I still feel sick when I find a dead fish in my tank that
has been gnawed at by it's companions - latest example was a headless
platy....if my kids had seen it at home I could control the situation
and explain...if I walked into a shop with the kids and saw it with a
fish being eaten alive the situation would be much harder. The trip to
the shop is not in my eyes an education into the true harsh realities of
nature....this is something we do through discussion and our own
experiences - my cat kills a bird - I can explain....my fish kill
another fish I can explain....trip to a shop were an animal is killing
another I don't have the environment to deal with the initial distress
even though I can explain when I get home.

I think that we all agree that certain fish need live food - even if it
is other fish. But there is no need to put this on display to children
(and some more squeemish adults) without warning. Doing this at home you
are doing it in a controlled environment where the children can gain an
understanding of what nature is and you are there to comfort and explain...

JMO
Gill

[CanadianCray]

I personally have dealt with this a number of times already with my girls. I
was able to explain just fine in the fish store. Children aren't stupid. You
just explain it like it is & they will understand. You don't need to be in a
special location , under special conditions, with certain lighting & mood
music. What would you like the stores to do 5 minute checks on their tanks
to be sure no fish has died. Maybe put a sign at the front door stating

"WARNING LIVE CREATURES IN SIDE THAT MAY DISPLAY NATURAL BEHAVIOR" maybe put
a rating system on each tank like movies & games so you know before hand
what the odds of seeing something a little gross.

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> John D. Goulden wrote:
>>>One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
>>>piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death;
>>>I assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or
>>>so. This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to
>>>see - an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad
>>>for business, no doubt.
>>>
>>>I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
>>>back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
>>>not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this
>>>group).
>>
>>
>> I guess I don't see any problem with this. Goldfish are often sold as
>> feeders and I certainly sacrificed enough of them to big oscars back when
>> a friend had them. Of course the oscars just took them whole and didn't
>> nibble them to death like the piranha probably did. When you raise
>> carnivorous critters, you often need to feed them live meat. I've fed
>> many live rabbits and mice to snakes and birds of prey as well. My
>> children are well acquainted with the circle of life.
>>
> It is a fact of life that some fish eat other fish...most humans eat fish
> and meat....
>
> Your choice is to educate your children in the facts of life...ie. animals
> eat other animals...but you can and would want to do that yourself...my
> kids know that the cat goes out and kills mice, rats and birds and once a
> grass snake shoved on the bed of my son when he was only 5. They best
> learn this in an environment that we as parents control. You don't really
> want others forcing this on them when you are not prepared...
>
> Having this forced upon a young child in what you are hoping will be a
> nice, pleasant journey to look at the nice fishies is another thing. I
> know damn well that my LFS will empty the pretty tank with the mollie and
> platy fry he had today into the tank that has his Oscar and maybe his
> rays....he doesn't do it when any customers are there....he does feed them
> sure but with what we could class as sanatised food such as frozen mussels
> and fish that are dead and frozen already....
>
> Personally, I still feel sick when I find a dead fish in my tank that has
> been gnawed at by it's companions - latest example was a headless
> platy....if my kids had seen it at home I could control the situation and
> explain...if I walked into a shop with the kids and saw it with a fish
> being eaten alive the situation would be much harder. The trip to the shop
> is not in my eyes an education into the true harsh realities of
> nature....this is something we do through discussion and our own
> experiences - my cat kills a bird - I can explain....my fish kill another
> fish I can explain....trip to a shop were an animal is killing another I
> don't have the environment to deal with the initial distress even though I
> can explain when I get home.
>
> I think that we all agree that certain fish need live food - even if it is
> other fish. But there is no need to put this on display to children (and
> some more squeemish adults) without warning. Doing this at home you are
> doing it in a controlled environment where the children can gain an
> understanding of what nature is and you are there to comfort and
> explain...
>
> JMO
> Gill

[Steve]

CanadianCray wrote:
> I personally have dealt with this a number of times already with my girls. I
> was able to explain just fine in the fish store. Children aren't stupid. You
> just explain it like it is & they will understand. You don't need to be in a
> special location , under special conditions, with certain lighting & mood
> music. What would you like the stores to do 5 minute checks on their tanks
> to be sure no fish has died. Maybe put a sign at the front door stating
>
> "WARNING LIVE CREATURES IN SIDE THAT MAY DISPLAY NATURAL BEHAVIOR" maybe put
> a rating system on each tank like movies & games so you know before hand
> what the odds of seeing something a little gross.
>

Sorry if I did not make it clear. My objection is to the aquarium store
owner fiendishly torturing feeder goldfish. There were perhaps 8 to 12
baby piranhas, each about 1/2 inch long in a bare aquarium of perhaps 15
gal, with a feeder goldfish.

Every minute or so, a piranha would take a tiny bite out of the living
goldfish. The feeder's tail was gone and the flesh at the tail's base
was being eaten. There were bites elsewhere on the goldfish too. At
every bite the goldfish would twitch, roll over and come to rest in
midwater, then there would be another bite.

This is not natural. In nature the prey fish would swim away after a few
bites, or be consumed rapidly. In the aquarium there was no escape, just
torture.

This process of feeding a large (perhaps 3 inch), live fish to tiny
predators is cruel and probably/ should be illegal. Young guppies might
be suitable food here, but not the goldfish. Better not to raise
piranhas if they must have live food. Does anyone know whether they need
to eat live food?

In any case, I was fairly glad that the store had this cruel tank on
display among the fish-for-sale aquariums, instead of tucked away in a
back room. It probably cost them some business. I'll check this weekend
to see if the store is still operating.

I posted to this thread, because this fish-torture is certainly the most
objectionable thing I've seen in an aquarium store. How could this store
be improved? Stop stupidly torturing fish and driving customers away.
Instead, set up some nice display aquariums, and sell lots of product!

Steve

Steve had written:
>>>>One weekday at lunch I went in, and they had an aquarium full of baby
>>>>piranhas and a goldfish. The goldfish was being slowly nibbled to death;
>>>>I assume they'd replace the goldfish remnant when it died after a day or
>>>>so. This aquarium was in with his other aquariums, for all customers to
>>>>see - an unsavoury sight for parents to explain to their children. Bad
>>>>for business, no doubt.
>>>>
>>>>I was totally sickened by the baby piranha tank so left and never went
>>>>back to that store. I did not call the protection for animals authority,
>>>>not wanting to be seen as a "nutter" (new word I learned from this
>>>>group).
>>>

[Koi-lo]

"Steve" > wrote in message
.. .
> Sorry if I did not make it clear. My objection is to the aquarium store
> owner fiendishly torturing feeder goldfish. There were perhaps 8 to 12
> baby piranhas, each about 1/2 inch long in a bare aquarium of perhaps 15
> gal, with a feeder goldfish.

## I read your post and feel that is not only cruel but sadistic! I love
goldfish and would never consider using them as feeders, especially where
they would be tortured as these you mention were being. How very sad.

> Every minute or so, a piranha would take a tiny bite out of the living
> goldfish. The feeder's tail was gone and the flesh at the tail's base was
> being eaten. There were bites elsewhere on the goldfish too. At every bite
> the goldfish would twitch, roll over and come to rest in midwater, then
> there would be another bite.

## I don't even want to know such things happen..... :*(

> This is not natural. In nature the prey fish would swim away after a few
> bites, or be consumed rapidly. In the aquarium there was no escape, just
> torture.

> This process of feeding a large (perhaps 3 inch), live fish to tiny
> predators is cruel and probably/ should be illegal. Young guppies might be
> suitable food here, but not the goldfish. Better not to raise piranhas if
> they must have live food. Does anyone know whether they need to eat live
> food?
>
> In any case, I was fairly glad that the store had this cruel tank on
> display among the fish-for-sale aquariums, instead of tucked away in a
> back room. It probably cost them some business. I'll check this weekend to
> see if the store is still operating.

## I hope they go bankrupt. If they have something like this on display who
knows what goes on in their back-room. :-(

> I posted to this thread, because this fish-torture is certainly the most
> objectionable thing I've seen in an aquarium store. How could this store
> be improved? Stop stupidly torturing fish and driving customers away.
> Instead, set up some nice display aquariums, and sell lots of product!

## There you go! I bet the owner/s are as clueless as the idiot who runs a
store for years here and 1/2 the fish are covered in ICK and furry bacterial
infections....... :-((( No one I know can understand how he stays in
business.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Alpha]

goldfish.
>
> ## I read your post and feel that is not only cruel but sadistic! I love
> goldfish and would never consider using them as feeders, especially where
> they would be tortured as these you mention were being. How very sad.

I suggest you go on an excursion for aquarists in a real locale, like the
Amazon. You are leading a sheltered life. What do you possibly think your
fishfood is made out of? Broccoli?

[NetMax]

"Alpha" > wrote in message
...
>
> goldfish.
>>
>> ## I read your post and feel that is not only cruel but sadistic! I
>> love goldfish and would never consider using them as feeders,
>> especially where they would be tortured as these you mention were
>> being. How very sad.
>
> I suggest you go on an excursion for aquarists in a real locale, like
> the Amazon. You are leading a sheltered life. What do you possibly
> think your fishfood is made out of? Broccoli?


It's a real slippery slope when we start comparing morals as regards to
the treatment of fish as food for fish. In the store, I used a lot of
discretion in the live food policy. The company policy was no live
feedings (fish to fish) during business hours.

As food we used pinkies (dead mice prepared specifically for the purpose
of feeding animals), crickets, feeder guppies, rosies and feeder comets.

Whatever the piranhas were eating (pinkies or comets) would be after
hours, as they were gruesome eaters, but difficult to move towards
processed foods.

Oscars were not fed live food, an example I wanted to influence our
customers towards.

Large needle fish (I forgot their sci-name) were fed feeder guppies or
rosies (if they needed more exercise) during the day, but only if there
were only adults in attendance. This tank was at a 5' level and they
were very neat eaters. They curl into an S shape and strike. Either the
victim vanished, or was oblivious in his luck as he swims away. These
fish could not be weaned on to processed foods, so it was essential that
prospective customers were trained in their dietary requirements.

Crickets we would feed during the day, but the Arrowana got his pinkies
after hours.

Feeder comets were mostly sold, for turtles, snakes, piranhas and Oscars.

I imagine people working in zoos have the same conundrum, where the same
animal can be under their care, or be food in a different application. I
think you become pragmatic about it.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Steve]

NetMax wrote:
> "Alpha" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>goldfish.
>>
>>>## I read your post and feel that is not only cruel but sadistic! I
>>>love goldfish and would never consider using them as feeders,
>>>especially where they would be tortured as these you mention were
>>>being. How very sad.
>>
>>I suggest you go on an excursion for aquarists in a real locale, like
>>the Amazon. You are leading a sheltered life. What do you possibly
>>think your fishfood is made out of? Broccoli?
>
>
>
> It's a real slippery slope when we start comparing morals as regards to
> the treatment of fish as food for fish. In the store, I used a lot of
> discretion in the live food policy. The company policy was no live
> feedings (fish to fish) during business hours.
>
> As food we used pinkies (dead mice prepared specifically for the purpose
> of feeding animals), crickets, feeder guppies, rosies and feeder comets.
>
> Whatever the piranhas were eating (pinkies or comets) would be after
> hours, as they were gruesome eaters, but difficult to move towards
> processed foods.
>
> Oscars were not fed live food, an example I wanted to influence our
> customers towards.
>
> Large needle fish (I forgot their sci-name) were fed feeder guppies or
> rosies (if they needed more exercise) during the day, but only if there
> were only adults in attendance. This tank was at a 5' level and they
> were very neat eaters. They curl into an S shape and strike. Either the
> victim vanished, or was oblivious in his luck as he swims away. These
> fish could not be weaned on to processed foods, so it was essential that
> prospective customers were trained in their dietary requirements.
>
> Crickets we would feed during the day, but the Arrowana got his pinkies
> after hours.
>
> Feeder comets were mostly sold, for turtles, snakes, piranhas and Oscars.
>
> I imagine people working in zoos have the same conundrum, where the same
> animal can be under their care, or be food in a different application. I
> think you become pragmatic about it.

Aquarists on this group are squeamish about using a few danios to cycle
an aquarium, and they advocate "fishless cycle" instead. At the same
time they appear to have no qualms above the actions discussed in this
thread. It's a paradox.

Steve

[Koi-lo]

"Steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Aquarists on this group are squeamish about using a few danios to cycle an
> aquarium, and they advocate "fishless cycle" instead. At the same time
> they appear to have no qualms above the actions discussed in this thread.
> It's a paradox.
=================
If feeders must be fed to some type of predator and are eaten in one gulp
most people can probably live with that. But to have a live fish chewed to
death by baby predators, to linger and suffer before death - I find that
unacceptable.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Aquarists on this group are squeamish about using a few danios to
>> cycle an aquarium, and they advocate "fishless cycle" instead. At the
>> same time they appear to have no qualms above the actions discussed in
>> this thread. It's a paradox.
> =================
> If feeders must be fed to some type of predator and are eaten in one
> gulp most people can probably live with that. But to have a live fish
> chewed to death by baby predators, to linger and suffer before death -
> I find that unacceptable.
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>


I suppose the intent is less of a paradox than the actions. The intent
is to minimize the use, the elapsed time and the suffering.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Charles]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:50:35 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
>has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
>service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
>wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
>starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
>places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
>picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
>ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...
>
>So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
>any ideas as to how matters could improve....
>
>Thanks
>Gill


I just learned from the clerk that female guppies can have babies just
from the food they eat, no males required.

[Koi-lo]

"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:50:35 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>>OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
>>has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
>>service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
>>wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
>>starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
>>places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
>>picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
>>ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...
>>
>>So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
>>any ideas as to how matters could improve....
>>
>>Thanks
>>Gill
>
>
> I just learned from the clerk that female guppies can have babies just
> from the food they eat, no males required.
========================
I wonder if the clerk still believes in the STORK story...... ;-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Empty]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:50:35 +0000, Gill Passman wrote:

> So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
> any ideas as to how matters could improve....

1) Dyed fish
Solution: customer education. Perhaps a nice graphic of the common
types suitable for printing with a blurb about how the dying is
accomplished could be created for good fish stores to hang? It's not libel
if you don't mention names, and makes the other store look cruel to the
consumer.

2) Beginners are screwed
Solution: Printed datasheets about the nitrogen cycle and possibly other
matters like quarantine tanks(which could actually be a sales help- sell
a q-tank package). Employee training to recognize new fish keepers and
inform them. Local stores could offer a baggie of filter squeezings with
your first fish.

3) Poor aquarium fish
Solution: Notices on tanks denoting large size, appetite, or special
requirements for things like clown knives, sleeper gobies, etc.

4) Bad quarantine
Solution: Fewer tanks per sump, if one tank is q'ed the whole sump is.

5) Products that prey on the stupid
Solution: Stop carrying crap like the various bottle-o'-bacterium and the
3 dollar 16oz 'betta water'. When someone finds out how badly they've been
ripped off, they don't blame the manufacturer, they blame the vendor.

6) Repair parts
Solution: Sell impellers tubes etc instead of trying to upsell me a damn
filter. For that matter, carry more DIY stuff like bulkhead fittings, hose
by the foot, etc.

7) Disease
Solution: Education of customers and employees. Printed handouts with a
color page for diagnostic pics and text about diseases and how to treat
them.

8) bettas
Solution: Integrated products like the eclipse on a small scale with
heating included.

There's 8 for ya- I'm sure I could think up another 8.

~Empty

[Empty]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:11:06 -0700, Empty wrote:

....sorry this came out so late, I just found it in my "pending" folder.

~Empty

[Tynk]

Charles wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:50:35 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
> >OK, some of you might have been following certain threads, plus also it
> >has become apparent to me that we all have a different quality of
> >service and care depending on where we live. Most of us know it is
> >wrong...and most of us feel powerless to put it right....so for a
> >starter lets look at the major complaints....please don't name the
> >places right now - we don't want any lawsuits but let's get an overall
> >picture of what we feel is wrong. Once we have that we can maybe look at
> >ways to address it....even if this takes years it is surely worth doing...
> >
> >So please update with what you are seeing and experiencing along with
> >any ideas as to how matters could improve....
> >
> >Thanks
> >Gill
>
>
> I just learned from the clerk that female guppies can have babies just
> from the food they eat, no males required.

> I just learned from the clerk that female guppies can have babies just
> from the food they eat, no males required.

That's too funny. They took the fact that a female live bearer can hold
sperm internally, and get 3 batches of fry out of one mating, and
turned it into that they can get prego from their food. = )~
That's one I've never heard before. I got a good chuckle. Tanks. = )