barb companions (cross-posted at alt.aquaria.tropical.fish.hobbist)

[hlessi]

i've got a (somewhat) new 45 gallon tank currently inhabited by a shoal
of 12 assorted tiger barbs.

wondering what can go into the aquarium that won't be harassed to death
by the barbs.

oh. also, there's a fiddler crab. but he's usually not in the water.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "hlessi" > Spake Unto All:

>i've got a (somewhat) new 45 gallon tank currently inhabited by a shoal
>of 12 assorted tiger barbs.
>
>wondering what can go into the aquarium that won't be harassed to death
>by the barbs.

Malawi cichlids. That is about the only thing I'd even consider
keeping with evil ******* fish like tiger barbs. I'm serious.

Actually I'd return the tiger barbs and get five-banded barbs (Puntius
pentazona) instead - similar to, but prettier than, tigers, and much,
much, nicer.

Actually most barbs are nicer than tiger barbs, and most are as pretty
or prettier to boot.

[Bill Stock]

"hlessi" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> i've got a (somewhat) new 45 gallon tank currently inhabited by a shoal
> of 12 assorted tiger barbs.
>
> wondering what can go into the aquarium that won't be harassed to death
> by the barbs.
>
> oh. also, there's a fiddler crab. but he's usually not in the water.

My Tiger Barbs were a bit rough and tumble until I added more fish.

I currently have:

6 Tiger Barbs
6 Rosy Barbs
8 Cardinal Tetras
6 Otos or less
3 Yoyo Loaches.

The only fish they really seem to bother are the Otos.

I find the Cherry Barbs in my other tank seem more aggressive.

[Tedd Jacobs]

"hlessi" wrote...
> i've got a (somewhat) new 45 gallon tank currently inhabited by a shoal
> of 12 assorted tiger barbs.
>
> wondering what can go into the aquarium that won't be harassed to death
> by the barbs.

guppies. make great feeders when they breed. ;^)

with the number of barbs you have and the assortment (assuming green and
traditional striped) you're going to find eventually the in-group pecking
will result in two groups of barbs, ones that are together (in-group) and
the rest that are being picked on (out-group). the dividing line usually
falls along their type (green or striped) in which case the stripped barbs,
which are slightly larger, stronger, and more agressive, eventually pick off
the weaker greenies. if you have an even number of each you will more than
likely end up with only the striped left as the greens run with the greens
and the striped with the striped and with the striped being the stronger and
more agressive.... if there are only one or two greenies they will more
than likely be eliminated first, followed by the weaker of the stripped
barbs. if you only have a few stripped, they will eventually rule the roost
and in most cases the group will end up culled to 5-7 total. optimally,
from my experience with tigers, the best grouping is limited to 6-8 total.
tigers have a complex social system and survival instinct which is akin to
"running with the pack", and "survival of the strongest". if it cant run
with the pack it's weak, if it's weak, they eliminate it.

as for what to mix with them, anything passive, fast, that does not have
large fins, and wont fit in their mouths. if you try to go with something
larger or more agressive that could "hold-its-own" you may end up making a
game of it for them to pick the guy to death (which is about how they will
take it). while it has been said- when kept in a large enough group they
keep their nipping behavior to theirselves, this is to an extent true, but
only in-as-far-as it prolongs the inevitable, which is, they do nip other
fish, often to death.

the best tankmates i've had with tigers are danio's, neon tetras, guppies
(seriously), bushynose pl*cos, african dwarf frogs (which i have read it is
not advised to do, but as long as they have rocks to hid under they will
usually defend themselves long enough to eat then retreat back to cover) and
few others like platies and mollys. gouramis and angels do not work. i
have tried dwarf gouramis in the past and had mixed results over who rules,
in the end it was not a good mix. i have talked with others who have mixed
them with chichlids, puffers, and other larger, agressive fish, all to no
avail.

personally, the barbs are some of my favorite fish. they are colorful,
extremely active, and have a complex social system, all of which makes them
enjoyable to watch. they are fairly easy to breed, and exceptionally hardy,
making them a pleasure to keep. so while most of this may sound to you like
an "oh-my-god what have i got myself into with these evil fish!" they are
one breed that i highly recommend. in a 45 gal. i think you will have a bit
more room to work with in regards to what you can mix with them, others here
will be able to provide you with a much more extensive list of what can and
cant be mixed with them. i'm just the behavioral guy. ;-)


>
> oh. also, there's a fiddler crab. but he's usually not in the water.

thats okay, barbs like shrimp too but i think the crab might be a little
more adept and fending them off at the dinner table, at least untill he
molts.

[NetMax]

"hlessi" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> i've got a (somewhat) new 45 gallon tank currently inhabited by a shoal
> of 12 assorted tiger barbs.
>
> wondering what can go into the aquarium that won't be harassed to death
> by the barbs.
>
> oh. also, there's a fiddler crab. but he's usually not in the water.


Tank mates for Tigers is easy imo, but your tank is too small for
maintaining more than one group of semi-aggressive fishes. If you had a
bigger tank, Geos, Firemouths, Acaras etc (or similarly sized cichlids),
mbuna, peacocks, julies, any Apistos (with some ground cover), Kribs,
danios (Pearl, Giant or even Zebra), various tetras such as Congo, Black
Skirt, Glass (M.oligolepis), Bloodfins, Hockey-stick, various sharks
(Redtail, Rainbow or Black), Corys, Plecs, Botia, Loaches, Swordtails and
some of the larger barbs (ymmv).

For tankmates, if sharing the Tiger's space, look for faster fish (longer
more cylindrical body) or semi-aggressive territorial fish (heavy body
and attitude). If not sharing their space (bottom dwellers), they are
generally ignored (generally). Avoid very similar fish (ie: the ymmv on
the larger barbs above).

I would leave it as a species tank of barbs.

I'm not sure how the Fiddler will fit in. There is an equal potential
for prey or predation, depending on the circumstance. Crabs/Crays and
fish are a tenuous balance.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[hlessi]

thanks.

yeah, i love tiger barbs. i've had 5 albino tbs for a little over a
year now, and was waiting until i moved to get a bigger tank, which i
just did a few weeks back. then i added the green tbs. the tank started
at 14 total, but i've lost one of each. (not sure what caused their
deaths--hoping it was caused by a water temp problem and not a
murderous crab. anyhow, that was the first two days. no problems that i
can tell since then.) plenty of room, plenty of distractions. so
behaviorally, the albinos are outnumbered, but not outsized.

i'm hoping i can throw in some neon tetras for a splash of color. i
just worry a little about the size. they seem like such small guys.
it's no problem if the tbs ignore them. i mean, tetras may be fast
enough (or aren't they?), even so...

[hlessi]

thanks.

i'm not necessarily looking for another semi-aggressive fish. it's more
a matter of aesthetics. i'd like to put in something with a different
color scheme (which is why i'm hoping some variety of tetra turn up as
acceptable tank mates.)

for a brief moment, i considered a cichlid, but the tank's definitely
not big enough.

yeah, i'm trying to keep a close eye on the crab. i lost two tbs the
first two days--but i don't know if the crab had anything to do with
it--no problems since then. as posted above, i'm hoping it was a water
temp problem that stressed those two guys. may they rest in peace.

in the end, a species tank works too.