Bolivian Rams

[srb]

I've had a male ram for about 8 months now, and two weeks ago I finally
found a female friend for him.

And now, I have ram eggs on a flat rock. Both parents are fanning the eggs
and keeping all other tank-mates at bay.

40 gal. tank, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 7.5 pH, water changes about every 10
days, many plants, Penguin 170 and AquaClear 200 filters (too much?) and
CO2. Other occupants are three small Botia striata (zebra loaches),
threadfin rainbows, furcata rainbows, and an African butterfly chiclid
(Anomalachromis thomasi).

Is there any chance of these eggs surviving? Should I remove the loaches
and the butterfly chiclid (they're all for snail control and could go to the
55 in the living room)? Should I wait to see if the eggs hatch and remove
the babies? The tank is due for a water change; should I do that?

First time parent! Please pardon the excitement!

scottie

[NetMax]

"srb" > wrote in message
.net...
> I've had a male ram for about 8 months now, and two weeks ago I finally
> found a female friend for him.
>
> And now, I have ram eggs on a flat rock. Both parents are fanning the
> eggs and keeping all other tank-mates at bay.
>
> 40 gal. tank, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 7.5 pH, water changes about every
> 10 days, many plants, Penguin 170 and AquaClear 200 filters (too much?)
> and CO2. Other occupants are three small Botia striata (zebra
> loaches), threadfin rainbows, furcata rainbows, and an African
> butterfly chiclid (Anomalachromis thomasi).
>
> Is there any chance of these eggs surviving? Should I remove the
> loaches and the butterfly chiclid (they're all for snail control and
> could go to the 55 in the living room)? Should I wait to see if the
> eggs hatch and remove the babies? The tank is due for a water change;
> should I do that?
>
> First time parent! Please pardon the excitement!
>
> scottie


hmmm, well, hmmmm, you see, the logical thing to do, is to do nothing
basically. Consider it their practice run, and let nature take its
course. You can improve their chances by leaving a nightlight on, so the
parents can have a chance to defend against nocturnal predation, but
otherwise, anything more might be too much work for very little results.

Even if some fry survive into the free-swimming stage, in a 40g, they
will just be picked off by the rainbows and others. Even very aggressive
fry, like African mbuna only have a negligible chance of survival, and
they are fearless and mouthbrooded, so they start life fairly large.
Tiny Ram fry would only survive by having large fissures in rocks to hide
out in, and they should be under a canopy of plants so they could come
out to eat. Moving stuff around now would be disruptive (catching all
the fish, modifying the filters etc).

I think Ram fry would need to be in a tank with nothing but the parents,
for the best chances & control of the situation. Congrats and enjoy, and
now with a breeding pair, you can prepare a proper 'nest' for their next
batch.
jmo
--
www.NetMax.tk

[srb]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> "srb" > wrote in message
> .net...
>> I've had a male ram for about 8 months now, and two weeks ago I finally
>> found a female friend for him.
>>
>> And now, I have ram eggs on a flat rock. Both parents are fanning the
>> eggs and keeping all other tank-mates at bay.
>>
>> 40 gal. tank, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 7.5 pH, water changes about every 10
>> days, many plants, Penguin 170 and AquaClear 200 filters (too much?) and
>> CO2. Other occupants are three small Botia striata (zebra loaches),
>> threadfin rainbows, furcata rainbows, and an African butterfly chiclid
>> (Anomalachromis thomasi).
>>
>> Is there any chance of these eggs surviving? Should I remove the loaches
>> and the butterfly chiclid (they're all for snail control and could go to
>> the 55 in the living room)? Should I wait to see if the eggs hatch and
>> remove the babies? The tank is due for a water change; should I do that?
>>
>> First time parent! Please pardon the excitement!
>>
>> scottie
>
>
> hmmm, well, hmmmm, you see, the logical thing to do, is to do nothing
> basically. Consider it their practice run, and let nature take its
> course. You can improve their chances by leaving a nightlight on, so the
> parents can have a chance to defend against nocturnal predation, but
> otherwise, anything more might be too much work for very little results.
>
> Even if some fry survive into the free-swimming stage, in a 40g, they will
> just be picked off by the rainbows and others. Even very aggressive fry,
> like African mbuna only have a negligible chance of survival, and they are
> fearless and mouthbrooded, so they start life fairly large. Tiny Ram fry
> would only survive by having large fissures in rocks to hide out in, and
> they should be under a canopy of plants so they could come out to eat.
> Moving stuff around now would be disruptive (catching all the fish,
> modifying the filters etc).
>
> I think Ram fry would need to be in a tank with nothing but the parents,
> for the best chances & control of the situation. Congrats and enjoy, and
> now with a breeding pair, you can prepare a proper 'nest' for their next
> batch.
> jmo
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

Thanks! I was afraid of that. I'll have to add another tank! Oh No! I
can hear DH screaming now.

Now, what wall is left. . .

And the more important questions:

What filter for rams? And how big a tank? I have a birthday soon. . .

scottie

[Koi-lo]

"srb" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> Thanks! I was afraid of that. I'll have to add another tank! Oh No! I
> can hear DH screaming now.

Sneak it in when he's not around...... ;-)

> Now, what wall is left. . .

Rearrange the furniture.

> And the more important questions:

> What filter for rams? And how big a tank? I have a birthday soon. . .

A 10 gallon or 20Long would be suitable. A small Aquaclear with a sponge
pulled over the intake would work fine. Snip a hole in the middle of the
sponge first. This will keep fry from being sucked in.


Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[JG]

Agreed.
"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "srb" > wrote in message
> .net...
>>
>> Thanks! I was afraid of that. I'll have to add another tank! Oh No! I
>> can hear DH screaming now.
>
> Sneak it in when he's not around...... ;-)
>
>> Now, what wall is left. . .
>
> Rearrange the furniture.
>
>> And the more important questions:
>
>> What filter for rams? And how big a tank? I have a birthday soon. . .
>
> A 10 gallon or 20Long would be suitable. A small Aquaclear with a sponge
> pulled over the intake would work fine. Snip a hole in the middle of the
> sponge first. This will keep fry from being sucked in.
>
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[JG]

I've bred these fish in similar conditions to yours, minus the community of
other fishes and it went well. As NetMax stated, it would be pointless to
try and change things midway through the process. However, now that you
know this is an established pair you can make plans to setup either their
own tank or clear the inhabitants out of this one and let nature take its
course. I have a few pictures of Bolivians and if I'm not mistaken a
spawning video on my website - www.jaysaquaria.com . I also have an
interesting article about breeding Bolivian Rams on there as well. I was
too busy to write my own at the time but will shortly.

J
"srb" > wrote in message
.net...
> I've had a male ram for about 8 months now, and two weeks ago I finally
> found a female friend for him.
>
> And now, I have ram eggs on a flat rock. Both parents are fanning the
> eggs and keeping all other tank-mates at bay.
>
> 40 gal. tank, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 7.5 pH, water changes about every 10
> days, many plants, Penguin 170 and AquaClear 200 filters (too much?) and
> CO2. Other occupants are three small Botia striata (zebra loaches),
> threadfin rainbows, furcata rainbows, and an African butterfly chiclid
> (Anomalachromis thomasi).
>
> Is there any chance of these eggs surviving? Should I remove the loaches
> and the butterfly chiclid (they're all for snail control and could go to
> the 55 in the living room)? Should I wait to see if the eggs hatch and
> remove the babies? The tank is due for a water change; should I do that?
>
> First time parent! Please pardon the excitement!
>
> scottie
>

[NetMax]

"srb" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "srb" > wrote in message
>> .net...
>>> I've had a male ram for about 8 months now, and two weeks ago I
>>> finally found a female friend for him.
>>>
>>> And now, I have ram eggs on a flat rock. Both parents are fanning
>>> the eggs and keeping all other tank-mates at bay.
>>>
>>> 40 gal. tank, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 7.5 pH, water changes about
>>> every 10 days, many plants, Penguin 170 and AquaClear 200 filters
>>> (too much?) and CO2. Other occupants are three small Botia striata
>>> (zebra loaches), threadfin rainbows, furcata rainbows, and an African
>>> butterfly chiclid (Anomalachromis thomasi).
>>>
>>> Is there any chance of these eggs surviving? Should I remove the
>>> loaches and the butterfly chiclid (they're all for snail control and
>>> could go to the 55 in the living room)? Should I wait to see if the
>>> eggs hatch and remove the babies? The tank is due for a water
>>> change; should I do that?
>>>
>>> First time parent! Please pardon the excitement!
>>>
>>> scottie
>>
>>
>> hmmm, well, hmmmm, you see, the logical thing to do, is to do nothing
>> basically. Consider it their practice run, and let nature take its
>> course. You can improve their chances by leaving a nightlight on, so
>> the parents can have a chance to defend against nocturnal predation,
>> but otherwise, anything more might be too much work for very little
>> results.
>>
>> Even if some fry survive into the free-swimming stage, in a 40g, they
>> will just be picked off by the rainbows and others. Even very
>> aggressive fry, like African mbuna only have a negligible chance of
>> survival, and they are fearless and mouthbrooded, so they start life
>> fairly large. Tiny Ram fry would only survive by having large fissures
>> in rocks to hide out in, and they should be under a canopy of plants
>> so they could come out to eat. Moving stuff around now would be
>> disruptive (catching all the fish, modifying the filters etc).
>>
>> I think Ram fry would need to be in a tank with nothing but the
>> parents, for the best chances & control of the situation. Congrats
>> and enjoy, and now with a breeding pair, you can prepare a proper
>> 'nest' for their next batch.
>> jmo
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
> Thanks! I was afraid of that. I'll have to add another tank! Oh No!
> I can hear DH screaming now.

I'm a bachelor now, so no worries for me. I should set up every tank I
have, so I'll have my aquarium rights established right away, for when I
meet someone ;~).

> Now, what wall is left. . .
>
> And the more important questions:
>
> What filter for rams?

I've seen UGF with a powerhead used effectively, or a sponge filter on a
small powerhead. This will give you the water flow needed (for
temperature uniformity) but not too much noise or turbulence (both of
which you want to minimize for the adult Rams to communicate effectively
with their fry moving them around the tank). My 2nd choice would be air
powered sponge filters (no airstones). Typically this is slightly more
noisy. Third would be a canister filter with a sponge on the input
(still quiet, but typically overpowered for small tanks, so you need to
add deflections). Last would be your typical HOB filter with a sponge on
the input. These are a little noisier than canisters (for the fish), and
by design, they flow more water than would be ideal (x4-5 as compared to
the x2-4 of a canister), resulting in more turbulence and a more quickly
clogged sponge intake (and you really don't want to be having to service
a filter during the first couple of weeks). If using an HOB, do get a
small one, but be aware that small often means cheap.

>... And how big a tank?

Tank size is not overly critical, big enough to move around (10-40g) and
if established, will have lots of extra bits of life for the fry to munch
on.

>... I have a birthday soon. . .


Sounds like this *presents* an opportunity :o).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> scottie

[srb]

Alas, all the eggs were gone this morning, in spite of sleeping last night
with the lights on in the bedroom (DH complaining, as well). But, I do have
an empty 10 gallon, and my favorite LFS is having a garage sale this weekend
(really GREAT LFS), so. . .

Thanks for all the input. JG, I'll check out your website, and thanks to
NetMax and Koi-Lo for the filter tips.

I was really surprised by the quick breeding. She is half the size, and I
presume, age, of the male. But she has developed beautiful color since
moving to her new home, and is growing. So perhaps if I provide the right
environment I'll have little BRs soon!