What is the best way to remove/replace gravel?

[fish lover]

After so many trys, I finally took NetMax's advise and tested my
gravel with PH down. Sure enough, some of them had reactions to it. I
guess that's why I could not bring down my PH level no matter what I
do. Thanks Max

Anyway, I'm thinking of remove all the gravel in the tank and
replacing it with some gravel that will not react to acid. What's the
best way to do it? I plan to do this over the weekend.

I know I may have to take the fish out and scope the gravel out. Any
better idea?

Here is my plan:
1. shut down filters
2. take 40% of water into my holding container, put the fish in it
3. take out the plans, decos and scope the gravel out
4. take 40% water out like regular water change, since the water is
going to be really murky at this point. I'm thinkign of ditch all
remaining water at this point but not sure if 60% water change is
going to kill my fish.
5. put in new gravel
6. put back 20% of old water
7 put back the fish
8 put back remain 20% old water
9 add 40% new water
10 turn back on the filters

I think this way I still have about 60% old water in the tank. It will
be cloudy for few hours before it settle down.

Anything I should watch for? Anything wrong with this plan?

I know this is going to be a very messy operation. Any advise to avoid
my wife be mad at me? :-)

Thanks

[Koi-lo]

"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
> After so many trys, I finally took NetMax's advise and tested my
> gravel with PH down. Sure enough, some of them had reactions to it. I
> guess that's why I could not bring down my PH level no matter what I
> do. Thanks Max
>
> Anyway, I'm thinking of remove all the gravel in the tank and
> replacing it with some gravel that will not react to acid. What's the
> best way to do it? I plan to do this over the weekend.
>
> I know I may have to take the fish out and scope the gravel out. Any
> better idea?
>
> Here is my plan:
> 1. shut down filters
> 2. take 40% of water into my holding container, put the fish in it
> 3. take out the plans, decos and scope the gravel out
> 4. take 40% water out like regular water change, since the water is
> going to be really murky at this point. I'm thinkign of ditch all
> remaining water at this point but not sure if 60% water change is
> going to kill my fish.
> 5. put in new gravel
> 6. put back 20% of old water
> 7 put back the fish
> 8 put back remain 20% old water
> 9 add 40% new water
> 10 turn back on the filters
>
> I think this way I still have about 60% old water in the tank. It will
> be cloudy for few hours before it settle down.
>
> Anything I should watch for? Anything wrong with this plan?
>
> I know this is going to be a very messy operation. Any advise to avoid
> my wife be mad at me? :-)
==================================
Just a few suggestions. When you add the "new" water add it very slowly if
the PH (and hardness) is different than what's already in the tank. As for
your wife - don't make a mess for her to clean up! ;-)

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Daniel Morrow]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bottom posted.

- --
You can find my public key at https://keyserver1.pgp.com
"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
> After so many trys, I finally took NetMax's advise and tested my
> gravel with PH down. Sure enough, some of them had reactions to it. I
> guess that's why I could not bring down my PH level no matter what I
> do. Thanks Max
>
> Anyway, I'm thinking of remove all the gravel in the tank and
> replacing it with some gravel that will not react to acid. What's the
> best way to do it? I plan to do this over the weekend.
>
> I know I may have to take the fish out and scope the gravel out. Any
> better idea?
>
> Here is my plan:
> 1. shut down filters
> 2. take 40% of water into my holding container, put the fish in it
> 3. take out the plans, decos and scope the gravel out
> 4. take 40% water out like regular water change, since the water is
> going to be really murky at this point. I'm thinkign of ditch all
> remaining water at this point but not sure if 60% water change is
> going to kill my fish.
> 5. put in new gravel
> 6. put back 20% of old water
> 7 put back the fish
> 8 put back remain 20% old water
> 9 add 40% new water
> 10 turn back on the filters
>
> I think this way I still have about 60% old water in the tank. It will
> be cloudy for few hours before it settle down.
>
> Anything I should watch for? Anything wrong with this plan?
>
> I know this is going to be a very messy operation. Any advise to avoid
> my wife be mad at me? :-)
>
> Thanks

Do as even netmax suggested on an even earlier post and get a good length of
cheap vinyl clear tubing from your local hardware store that is
approximately 2 inches in diameter and siphon the gravel out. This method
makes things much easier and even though a lot of water comes out with it
you might be able to avoid removing the fish at all with this method. Good
luck and later! P.s. - lesser diameter hose might plug up with gravel, so
get a decent diameter hose.

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[spiral_72]

Heck, on several occasions I've just scooped the gravel out with a
<fill in the blank>. I left the water, fish and everything alone. I
used a fish net for what little was in my 10 gallon tank. Very simple.

When you add the new gravel.... shoo (SP?) the fish away and add it a
cup at a time. I'd make sure the new stuff is washed first and maybe
add it over several days if you really wanna be careful. I've done it 5
or 6 times. Ok, so far.

Hope it helps!

[NetMax]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Bottom posted.
>
> - --
> You can find my public key at https://keyserver1.pgp.com
> "fish lover" > wrote in message
> ...
>> After so many trys, I finally took NetMax's advise and tested my
>> gravel with PH down. Sure enough, some of them had reactions to it. I
>> guess that's why I could not bring down my PH level no matter what I
>> do. Thanks Max
>>
>> Anyway, I'm thinking of remove all the gravel in the tank and
>> replacing it with some gravel that will not react to acid. What's the
>> best way to do it? I plan to do this over the weekend.
>>
>> I know I may have to take the fish out and scope the gravel out. Any
>> better idea?
>>
>> Here is my plan:
>> 1. shut down filters
>> 2. take 40% of water into my holding container, put the fish in it
>> 3. take out the plans, decos and scope the gravel out
>> 4. take 40% water out like regular water change, since the water is
>> going to be really murky at this point. I'm thinkign of ditch all
>> remaining water at this point but not sure if 60% water change is
>> going to kill my fish.
>> 5. put in new gravel
>> 6. put back 20% of old water
>> 7 put back the fish
>> 8 put back remain 20% old water
>> 9 add 40% new water
>> 10 turn back on the filters
>>
>> I think this way I still have about 60% old water in the tank. It will
>> be cloudy for few hours before it settle down.
>>
>> Anything I should watch for? Anything wrong with this plan?
>>
>> I know this is going to be a very messy operation. Any advise to avoid
>> my wife be mad at me? :-)
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Do as even netmax suggested on an even earlier post and get a good
> length of
> cheap vinyl clear tubing from your local hardware store that is
> approximately 2 inches in diameter and siphon the gravel out. This
> method
> makes things much easier and even though a lot of water comes out with
> it
> you might be able to avoid removing the fish at all with this method.
> Good
> luck and later! P.s. - lesser diameter hose might plug up with gravel,
> so
> get a decent diameter hose.


I remember that post *shuffles through Sent Items folder* Oct-05 (seems
like years ago). Question was whether it was possible to remove gravel
without removing the fish:

8< & pasted
Yes. The procedure is to remove the rocks from one half of the tank.
Then siphon out the gravel from that side, getting as close to the
remaining rockwork as possible. I would not remove the gravel by any
other means (ie: scooping) as it will release too much debris into the
water column. For siphoning, you should use a larger diameter hose (I
use 2"), and depending on your gravel weight & depth (determines the
total weight to move) and the lowest end of the siphon (determines vacuum
pressure), you might find that it takes several days to do a bit at a
time (unless your fish are accustomed to large water changes, as it might
take 10 gallons of water to move 5lb of gravel). This will vary
tremendously according to your specific conditions though.

If the fish are accustomed to large water changes, then stick a hose of
incoming temperature adjusted water on the opposite side, overdose with
de-chlor and you should be able to siphon half the gravel in one go (and
a bit of patience). We would siphon gravel down into styrofoam coolers
and have a Python continuously sucking the water out, leaving (mostly)
only the gravel, but the siphon would go faster than the Python or the
return water filling the tank, so you pause occasionally to let the
levels catch up. Check your incoming water temperature periodically
(it's a bitch when it goes cold on you, and you took too long to notice).

With fish inside, I would not do more than 1/2 the tank at a time, and
leave your filters undisturbed. The most important nitrifying aerobic
bacteria are mostly in your filter, but the gravel also has some
anaerobic bacterial cultures which break down detritus and other organic
matter. The filter bacteria are the most critical as their reproduction
rate is quite slow (almost a day), but the gravel bacteria is from my
understanding, the much more conventional species which double in the
typical 20 minutes, so they are less of a concern. Allow a week to go
by, monitoring water quality (NH3 & NO2) and if all is well, move the
remaining rockwork to the empty side (use a plastic putty knife to shovel
over the gravel the cichlids have blown to the clear side), and then
siphon the rest of the gravel.

It is a little tricky putting new (or clean old) gravel into an existing
tank without getting a lot of fines (gravel dust) into the water column.
For this, get the large siphon hose and install a funnel. Now pour the
gravel through the funnel when the other end of the hose is touching the
base of the aquarium. This will minimize the cloudy water somewhat, but
expect it to still take a few days to clear properly (if you haven't
cleaned or replaced your filter media, and it is nice and sticky).

When all is said & done, the above procedure works even better and faster
if there are no fish in the tank, but it's up to you to decide what best
fits your application. hth

end c&p, and as this is a reprint, I'm not re-reading it so I hope it
makes sense.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Tynk]

fish lover wrote:
> After so many trys, I finally took NetMax's advise and tested my
> gravel with PH down. Sure enough, some of them had reactions to it. I
> guess that's why I could not bring down my PH level no matter what I
> do. Thanks Max
>
> Anyway, I'm thinking of remove all the gravel in the tank and
> replacing it with some gravel that will not react to acid. What's the
> best way to do it? I plan to do this over the weekend.
>
> I know I may have to take the fish out and scope the gravel out. Any
> better idea?
>
> Here is my plan:
> 1. shut down filters
> 2. take 40% of water into my holding container, put the fish in it
> 3. take out the plans, decos and scope the gravel out
> 4. take 40% water out like regular water change, since the water is
> going to be really murky at this point. I'm thinkign of ditch all
> remaining water at this point but not sure if 60% water change is
> going to kill my fish.
> 5. put in new gravel
> 6. put back 20% of old water
> 7 put back the fish
> 8 put back remain 20% old water
> 9 add 40% new water
> 10 turn back on the filters
>
> I think this way I still have about 60% old water in the tank. It will
> be cloudy for few hours before it settle down.
>
> Anything I should watch for? Anything wrong with this plan?
>
> I know this is going to be a very messy operation. Any advise to avoid
> my wife be mad at me? :-)
>
> Thanks

Remember that most of the nitrifying bacteria are on all the surfaces
of the tank and inside the tank. That includes all the decoratoins, as
well as the gravel and tank walls. hardly anything is free floating in
the water.
I would hold off on cleaning the decor and scrubbing the tank walls if
you could. Maybe just the front glass, but leave the rest until the
next weekly water change.
If you have a shop that carries BioSpira, add some of that too. It
helps greatly!!
I just happened to change all my gravel last weekend. I left most of
the fish in the 75g, except for my female Bettas. They like to bite and
it pinches, so I house them in a gallon bucket while I do anything
inside the tank.
The young Angelfish that I have and the Clown Laoches all stayed in.
They stayed out of the way and only a few times had to be swooshed away
when scooping the gravel out with my large net. (Angelfish size). I
emptied the gravel out into a waiting 5g bucket which needed to be
dumped once and was then filled again with gravel. I'm SO HAPPY I
waited for my hubby to be home when I did this. That bucket was heavy!
If I would have used the little bucket (kitchen mop bucket size), it
would have taken forever.
So when you empty the g ravel, remember to check the weight of the
bucket before you fill it all the way.
I did a partial water chage after I remopved the gravel, cleaned the
plants and glass too, but I added BioSpira at the same time. This is
the only product that has the correct type of bacteria starter culture
in it, so don't bother buying anything else. It won't work.
I was able to clean everything and not have to worry about cycling the
tank again, or having a huge bacteria bloom (white cloudy water)
because I used that product.
With large changes like these I like to do another dose of BioSpira
after a week when I do the next water change.

[fish lover]

Thanks guys for the advises. I went to the hardware store and bout the
2" vinyl tube. I'm going to give it a try tonight as part of my normal
water change trying to suck out the gravel.

I went to the PetSmart and trying to buy some new gravel. They don't
have anything that would not react to acid. Thye guys at the LSF have
no idea that gravel can effect the PH level. So much for their help. I
will try another LFS see if they have anything different.

I may have to settle with no gravel in the tank and move the plants
into pots.

Thanks again for the help.


>After so many trys, I finally took NetMax's advise and tested my
>gravel with PH down. Sure enough, some of them had reactions to it. I
>guess that's why I could not bring down my PH level no matter what I
>do. Thanks Max
>
>Anyway, I'm thinking of remove all the gravel in the tank and
>replacing it with some gravel that will not react to acid. What's the
>best way to do it? I plan to do this over the weekend.
>
>I know I may have to take the fish out and scope the gravel out. Any
>better idea?
>
>Here is my plan:
>1. shut down filters
>2. take 40% of water into my holding container, put the fish in it
>3. take out the plans, decos and scope the gravel out
>4. take 40% water out like regular water change, since the water is
>going to be really murky at this point. I'm thinkign of ditch all
>remaining water at this point but not sure if 60% water change is
>going to kill my fish.
>5. put in new gravel
>6. put back 20% of old water
>7 put back the fish
>8 put back remain 20% old water
>9 add 40% new water
>10 turn back on the filters
>
>I think this way I still have about 60% old water in the tank. It will
>be cloudy for few hours before it settle down.
>
>Anything I should watch for? Anything wrong with this plan?
>
>I know this is going to be a very messy operation. Any advise to avoid
>my wife be mad at me? :-)
>
>Thanks

[Koi-lo]

"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
> I went to the PetSmart and trying to buy some new gravel.
===============
Check out Lowe's and Home Depot. I found several brown natural gravels that
look totally awesome in a fish tank. I mixed the small brown pea gravel with
the one called River Rocks (mixed size brown pebbles and stones). Both are
a natural color and have had no effect on the PH of my tanks. They come in
50lb sacks for $3.99 each. A bag that size in a pet shop would be $50. I
got enough to do all my tanks, the betta bowls... plus have plenty of
leftovers.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[fish lover]

I went to one of the LFS and got few bags of gravel. Home Depot has
soemthing a bit bigger than I want. The guy at this LFS was sure about
the PH level issue because they sold salt water fish too. I came home
and tested it out. All are fine without any problem.

I used the 2" tube and trying to suck out the gravel. I was surprised
abuot how strong the suction was. Everything shooting out like
bullets. It filled up my 25 G container very quickly, before I can
suck about 1/10 of the gravel. I think I'm going to change to a
smaller tube, 1" maybe? Also, I might as well get about 25' so I don't
have to use the container.

Thanks for the advise.

>
>"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
>> I went to the PetSmart and trying to buy some new gravel.
>===============
>Check out Lowe's and Home Depot. I found several brown natural gravels that
>look totally awesome in a fish tank. I mixed the small brown pea gravel with
>the one called River Rocks (mixed size brown pebbles and stones). Both are
>a natural color and have had no effect on the PH of my tanks. They come in
>50lb sacks for $3.99 each. A bag that size in a pet shop would be $50. I
>got enough to do all my tanks, the betta bowls... plus have plenty of
>leftovers.

[NetMax]

You can decrease the flow by raising the pail (putting it on a chair).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
>I went to one of the LFS and got few bags of gravel. Home Depot has
> soemthing a bit bigger than I want. The guy at this LFS was sure about
> the PH level issue because they sold salt water fish too. I came home
> and tested it out. All are fine without any problem.
>
> I used the 2" tube and trying to suck out the gravel. I was surprised
> abuot how strong the suction was. Everything shooting out like
> bullets. It filled up my 25 G container very quickly, before I can
> suck about 1/10 of the gravel. I think I'm going to change to a
> smaller tube, 1" maybe? Also, I might as well get about 25' so I don't
> have to use the container.
>
> Thanks for the advise.
>
>>
>>"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
>>> I went to the PetSmart and trying to buy some new gravel.
>>===============
>>Check out Lowe's and Home Depot. I found several brown natural gravels
>>that
>>look totally awesome in a fish tank. I mixed the small brown pea gravel
>>with
>>the one called River Rocks (mixed size brown pebbles and stones). Both
>>are
>>a natural color and have had no effect on the PH of my tanks. They
>>come in
>>50lb sacks for $3.99 each. A bag that size in a pet shop would be $50.
>>I
>>got enough to do all my tanks, the betta bowls... plus have plenty of
>>leftovers.