Angel with increased gill movement

[Mary Burns]

Sorry if you've read this somewhere else, but I'm desperate to help him.
Big Gold pearlscale angel 11" tall, 3.5" round body, 18 months old, 120
GB/min with his lower lip not closing.His partner is a small marble female.
They were in a 30g barebottom, spawning regularly, 5 to 8 days but always
eating the eggs/6 day old wigglers. They get along really well, no fuss, no
posturing/chasing. She always spawns around 9am to 10am, when I'm busy in
same room, cleaning other tanks and in and out to kitchen. I decided to put
them into my 45g, 4 weeks ago,(tank set up last february which has gravel
and plants), giving him more space as he's a very active swimmer. There were
still 10 platy fry in there around 1" and 4 cories. Their 30g had 3 x 15% a
week water chnages as they were such active spawners. At first, the move
appeared to go well, he loves the space and is always showing off. She
looked as if she was about to spawn twice, full of eggs and tube down but
didn't. I think that is because of the platy fry surrounding her too much
after being alone together for 7 months.

His mouth appeared open 4 days ago with increased gill movement. They are
acting the same, always hungry, active together. No flicking, gasping, spots
visible. I have removed 8 of the platy fry as she is full of eggs again, and
her tube is coming down, and they are both cleaning "their" anubias plant
that she always chooses to lay on. I'm hoping with only 2 platy fry left,
less bold and not near her at all, she will spawn soon.

So, what can be cauing his increased breathing rate? Low oxygen was
suggested. They are in a juwel tank. I have 5 juwels and my vision 260 is
full of fish, 10 clowns, 10 tetra, cories and none of my juwel tanks have
low oxygen problems. I'm doing daily water changes on 45g until I know what
else to do. An airstone has been added. I tried a juwel diffuser, but tank
quickly was saturated with bubbles on plants,glass so I removed it. No dead
plant matter. Gravel vacuumed regularly. Juwel internal filter, sponges
maintained as according to juwel instructions. They have a varied diet, love
bloodworm and daphnia,frozen krill, tubeflex, veggies and flake. If there
was a problem with the live food, I think my clown loaches would be sick as
well as they get the lion share of live food. I wonder if he is stressed by
her not spawning, or what else can cause it? I've looked up gill flukes on
internet, but he is not flicking at all. I have seen ich before and he has
no spots. He has a really happy nature and I want to help him in any way I
can. Mary

[NetMax]

"Mary Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry if you've read this somewhere else, but I'm desperate to help
> him.
> Big Gold pearlscale angel 11" tall, 3.5" round body, 18 months old, 120
> GB/min with his lower lip not closing.His partner is a small marble
> female. They were in a 30g barebottom, spawning regularly, 5 to 8 days
> but always eating the eggs/6 day old wigglers. They get along really
> well, no fuss, no posturing/chasing. She always spawns around 9am to
> 10am, when I'm busy in same room, cleaning other tanks and in and out
> to kitchen. I decided to put them into my 45g, 4 weeks ago,(tank set up
> last february which has gravel and plants), giving him more space as
> he's a very active swimmer. There were still 10 platy fry in there
> around 1" and 4 cories. Their 30g had 3 x 15% a week water chnages as
> they were such active spawners. At first, the move appeared to go well,
> he loves the space and is always showing off. She looked as if she was
> about to spawn twice, full of eggs and tube down but didn't. I think
> that is because of the platy fry surrounding her too much after being
> alone together for 7 months.
>
> His mouth appeared open 4 days ago with increased gill movement. They
> are acting the same, always hungry, active together. No flicking,
> gasping, spots visible. I have removed 8 of the platy fry as she is
> full of eggs again, and her tube is coming down, and they are both
> cleaning "their" anubias plant that she always chooses to lay on. I'm
> hoping with only 2 platy fry left, less bold and not near her at all,
> she will spawn soon.
>
> So, what can be cauing his increased breathing rate? Low oxygen was
> suggested. They are in a juwel tank. I have 5 juwels and my vision 260
> is full of fish, 10 clowns, 10 tetra, cories and none of my juwel tanks
> have low oxygen problems. I'm doing daily water changes on 45g until I
> know what else to do. An airstone has been added. I tried a juwel
> diffuser, but tank quickly was saturated with bubbles on plants,glass
> so I removed it. No dead plant matter. Gravel vacuumed regularly. Juwel
> internal filter, sponges maintained as according to juwel instructions.
> They have a varied diet, love bloodworm and daphnia,frozen krill,
> tubeflex, veggies and flake. If there was a problem with the live food,
> I think my clown loaches would be sick as well as they get the lion
> share of live food. I wonder if he is stressed by her not spawning, or
> what else can cause it? I've looked up gill flukes on internet, but he
> is not flicking at all. I have seen ich before and he has no spots. He
> has a really happy nature and I want to help him in any way I can. Mary


Fresh high quality carbon in the filters (or add an extra filter loaded
with only carbon), and stop the water changes long enough to assess if
there is any improvement. Your municipal supply may have had some traces
of phenols, tensides, pesticides, heavy metals or other industrial
effluents irritating the Angel's gill membranes.

If there is an improvement, lowering the water temperature slightly may
also produce some symptomatic improvement, as the dissolved O2 level will
increase and the fish's metabolism will decrease. I would also reduce
the feedings slightly.

A bit of aquarium salt in the water. Chlorides facilitate the molecular
movement of certain elements through the gill cells, hastening
equilibrium between their blood and the water.

Just some ideas to try, none of which should worsen anything, good luck
Mary.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mary Burns]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Mary Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Sorry if you've read this somewhere else, but I'm desperate to help him.
>> Big Gold pearlscale angel 11" tall, 3.5" round body, 18 months old, 120
>> GB/min with his lower lip not closing.His partner is a small marble
>> female. They were in a 30g barebottom, spawning regularly, 5 to 8 days
>> but always eating the eggs/6 day old wigglers. They get along really
>> well, no fuss, no posturing/chasing. She always spawns around 9am to
>> 10am, when I'm busy in same room, cleaning other tanks and in and out to
>> kitchen. I decided to put them into my 45g, 4 weeks ago,(tank set up last
>> february which has gravel and plants), giving him more space as he's a
>> very active swimmer. There were still 10 platy fry in there around 1" and
>> 4 cories. Their 30g had 3 x 15% a week water chnages as they were such
>> active spawners. At first, the move appeared to go well, he loves the
>> space and is always showing off. She looked as if she was about to spawn
>> twice, full of eggs and tube down but didn't. I think that is because of
>> the platy fry surrounding her too much after being alone together for 7
>> months.
>>
>> His mouth appeared open 4 days ago with increased gill movement. They are
>> acting the same, always hungry, active together. No flicking, gasping,
>> spots visible. I have removed 8 of the platy fry as she is full of eggs
>> again, and her tube is coming down, and they are both cleaning "their"
>> anubias plant that she always chooses to lay on. I'm hoping with only 2
>> platy fry left, less bold and not near her at all, she will spawn soon.
>>
>> So, what can be cauing his increased breathing rate? Low oxygen was
>> suggested. They are in a juwel tank. I have 5 juwels and my vision 260 is
>> full of fish, 10 clowns, 10 tetra, cories and none of my juwel tanks have
>> low oxygen problems. I'm doing daily water changes on 45g until I know
>> what else to do. An airstone has been added. I tried a juwel diffuser,
>> but tank quickly was saturated with bubbles on plants,glass so I removed
>> it. No dead plant matter. Gravel vacuumed regularly. Juwel internal
>> filter, sponges maintained as according to juwel instructions. They have
>> a varied diet, love bloodworm and daphnia,frozen krill, tubeflex, veggies
>> and flake. If there was a problem with the live food, I think my clown
>> loaches would be sick as well as they get the lion share of live food. I
>> wonder if he is stressed by her not spawning, or what else can cause it?
>> I've looked up gill flukes on internet, but he is not flicking at all. I
>> have seen ich before and he has no spots. He has a really happy nature
>> and I want to help him in any way I can. Mary
>
>
> Fresh high quality carbon in the filters (or add an extra filter loaded
> with only carbon), and stop the water changes long enough to assess if
> there is any improvement. Your municipal supply may have had some traces
> of phenols, tensides, pesticides, heavy metals or other industrial
> effluents irritating the Angel's gill membranes.
>
> If there is an improvement, lowering the water temperature slightly may
> also produce some symptomatic improvement, as the dissolved O2 level will
> increase and the fish's metabolism will decrease. I would also reduce the
> feedings slightly.
>
> A bit of aquarium salt in the water. Chlorides facilitate the molecular
> movement of certain elements through the gill cells, hastening equilibrium
> between their blood and the water.
>
> Just some ideas to try, none of which should worsen anything, good luck
> Mary.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>


I put new carbon in on Saturday, water temp was 82, reduced to 79 over the
last 3 days, 1 degree a day. He resents the airstone, posturing at it, but
I've left it in the left back corner, only cutting out one of his routes.
Their plant is front left and they are busy doing left glass, so at least
he's near the airstone for extra 02. Thanks for your reply, it makes more
sense that something is irritating his gills, enough to raise his GB, but
not irritating him enough to stop eating or gasp as the top or even stop
being active. His brother, Medium Gold is about the same body size but
shorter fins making him about 8" tall. He has always been less active but
seems to really like being in the 30g tank,with 2 smaller angels, watching
me as I type!! 3 angels in a 30g would surely have problems quicker if the
tanks had a low oxygen problem in general. The 2 golds are kept seperate as
they don't get along, a real shame as they are beautiful. Watching them grow
up was enchanting, until Medium Gold decided he wanted the 65g all to
himself and would not leave Big Gold alone.
I will add some aquarium salt...how much for 180 litres and will the 4
cories be ok with salt? I know platies can tolerate salt. Mary

[NetMax]

"Mary Burns" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Mary Burns" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Sorry if you've read this somewhere else, but I'm desperate to help
>>> him.
>>> Big Gold pearlscale angel 11" tall, 3.5" round body, 18 months old,
>>> 120 GB/min with his lower lip not closing.His partner is a small
>>> marble female. They were in a 30g barebottom, spawning regularly, 5
>>> to 8 days but always eating the eggs/6 day old wigglers. They get
>>> along really well, no fuss, no posturing/chasing. She always spawns
>>> around 9am to 10am, when I'm busy in same room, cleaning other tanks
>>> and in and out to kitchen. I decided to put them into my 45g, 4 weeks
>>> ago,(tank set up last february which has gravel and plants), giving
>>> him more space as he's a very active swimmer. There were still 10
>>> platy fry in there around 1" and 4 cories. Their 30g had 3 x 15% a
>>> week water chnages as they were such active spawners. At first, the
>>> move appeared to go well, he loves the space and is always showing
>>> off. She looked as if she was about to spawn twice, full of eggs and
>>> tube down but didn't. I think that is because of the platy fry
>>> surrounding her too much after being alone together for 7 months.
>>>
>>> His mouth appeared open 4 days ago with increased gill movement. They
>>> are acting the same, always hungry, active together. No flicking,
>>> gasping, spots visible. I have removed 8 of the platy fry as she is
>>> full of eggs again, and her tube is coming down, and they are both
>>> cleaning "their" anubias plant that she always chooses to lay on. I'm
>>> hoping with only 2 platy fry left, less bold and not near her at all,
>>> she will spawn soon.
>>>
>>> So, what can be cauing his increased breathing rate? Low oxygen was
>>> suggested. They are in a juwel tank. I have 5 juwels and my vision
>>> 260 is full of fish, 10 clowns, 10 tetra, cories and none of my juwel
>>> tanks have low oxygen problems. I'm doing daily water changes on 45g
>>> until I know what else to do. An airstone has been added. I tried a
>>> juwel diffuser, but tank quickly was saturated with bubbles on
>>> plants,glass so I removed it. No dead plant matter. Gravel vacuumed
>>> regularly. Juwel internal filter, sponges maintained as according to
>>> juwel instructions. They have a varied diet, love bloodworm and
>>> daphnia,frozen krill, tubeflex, veggies and flake. If there was a
>>> problem with the live food, I think my clown loaches would be sick as
>>> well as they get the lion share of live food. I wonder if he is
>>> stressed by her not spawning, or what else can cause it? I've looked
>>> up gill flukes on internet, but he is not flicking at all. I have
>>> seen ich before and he has no spots. He has a really happy nature and
>>> I want to help him in any way I can. Mary
>>
>>
>> Fresh high quality carbon in the filters (or add an extra filter
>> loaded with only carbon), and stop the water changes long enough to
>> assess if there is any improvement. Your municipal supply may have
>> had some traces of phenols, tensides, pesticides, heavy metals or
>> other industrial effluents irritating the Angel's gill membranes.
>>
>> If there is an improvement, lowering the water temperature slightly
>> may also produce some symptomatic improvement, as the dissolved O2
>> level will increase and the fish's metabolism will decrease. I would
>> also reduce the feedings slightly.
>>
>> A bit of aquarium salt in the water. Chlorides facilitate the
>> molecular movement of certain elements through the gill cells,
>> hastening equilibrium between their blood and the water.
>>
>> Just some ideas to try, none of which should worsen anything, good
>> luck Mary.
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
>
> I put new carbon in on Saturday, water temp was 82, reduced to 79 over
> the last 3 days, 1 degree a day. He resents the airstone, posturing at
> it, but I've left it in the left back corner, only cutting out one of
> his routes. Their plant is front left and they are busy doing left
> glass, so at least he's near the airstone for extra 02. Thanks for your
> reply, it makes more sense that something is irritating his gills,
> enough to raise his GB, but not irritating him enough to stop eating or
> gasp as the top or even stop being active. His brother, Medium Gold is
> about the same body size but shorter fins making him about 8" tall. He
> has always been less active but seems to really like being in the 30g
> tank,with 2 smaller angels, watching me as I type!! 3 angels in a 30g
> would surely have problems quicker if the tanks had a low oxygen
> problem in general. The 2 golds are kept seperate as they don't get
> along, a real shame as they are beautiful. Watching them grow up was
> enchanting, until Medium Gold decided he wanted the 65g all to himself
> and would not leave Big Gold alone.
> I will add some aquarium salt...how much for 180 litres and will the 4
> cories be ok with salt? I know platies can tolerate salt. Mary


I don't think any fish would be bothered by a tablespoon per 5g. Add it
gradually over a couple of days. Continue to research causes though.
The stressor might be an internal contagion of some sort.
--
www.NetMax.tk