Stupid questions re salt dip

[Curious George]

I understand it's advisable to perform a salt dip for a new fish or
when bringing in from a pond. Are fancy GF really that heaty that I
can really transport one from the store, dump it in a salt bath, then
dump it straight into a quarantine tank? Seems awful stressful to me.
This flies in the face of how all other fish seem to need to be
acclimated to a new tank. Should I at least let a new fish adjust to
a quarantine tank for a few days to get over the journey before
dipping?

AFAIK salt dips strip the slime coat, stimulates new slime production
as well as knock out many pathogens. But since stripping the slime
coat makes them MORE vulnerable to infection - how long should one
wait to introduce them to a community tank?

What's the minimum size/age where it's safe to dip?

Is it best to put the GF in a mild salt solution (~1tbsp/5gal) after
the dip and then gradually reduce the salinity over time?

TIA

[Koi-lo]

"Curious George" > wrote in message
...
>I understand it's advisable to perform a salt dip for a new fish or
> when bringing in from a pond. Are fancy GF really that heaty that I
> can really transport one from the store, dump it in a salt bath, then
> dump it straight into a quarantine tank? Seems awful stressful to me.
> This flies in the face of how all other fish seem to need to be
> acclimated to a new tank. Should I at least let a new fish adjust to
> a quarantine tank for a few days to get over the journey before
> dipping?

I would. Others may disagree.

> AFAIK salt dips strip the slime coat, stimulates new slime production
> as well as knock out many pathogens. But since stripping the slime
> coat makes them MORE vulnerable to infection - how long should one
> wait to introduce them to a community tank?
>
> What's the minimum size/age where it's safe to dip?

I raise GF and wouldn't dip one under 3" overall length. I'd rather use
something like Aquara-Sol or Quick-Cure than salt dips. They appear to be
extremely stressful to the fish. I only dip my fish when I know they
already have a parasite problem such as a cloudy slimecoat, they're flashing
etc. I then put them in a clean new setup that contains either of the 2
above mentioned products. Putting them back into the tank they came from
will only allow the parasites that remain to re-attack them. Their tank
must also be disinfected or put them in a different tank.

> Is it best to put the GF in a mild salt solution (~1tbsp/5gal) after
> the dip and then gradually reduce the salinity over time?

Yes.

--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Curious George]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:42:27 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

Thanks. So would you be against a purely prophylactic dip a recently
purchased, perfectly healthy looking GF?

[Koi-lo]

"Curious George" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:42:27 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
> wrote:
>
> Thanks. So would you be against a purely prophylactic dip a recently
> purchased, perfectly healthy looking GF?
==========================
Yes.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Curious George]

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:52:34 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Curious George" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:42:27 -0600, "Koi-lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. So would you be against a purely prophylactic dip a recently
>> purchased, perfectly healthy looking GF?
>==========================
>Yes.

Thanks. Maybe I misread some advice elsewhere - but the idea of a
prophylactic dip of a new fish didn't sit right with me either.

[[email protected]]

most parasites are found in the slime coat. when a new fish is brought home it needs
to float to temp (if tank water is colder, but not warmer) with the bag CLOSED. do
not every open a bag and let the fish sit in it. do not mix tank and bag water.
then do a salt dip to strip off that possibly "loaded" slime coat
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/treatment/trtmnt.htm#SALT%20DIPS

ALL FISH MUST BE QUARANTINED for a minimum of 1 month. dumping a new fish into an
existing tank is a good way of introducing disease and death to the fish you already
have. In fact, I advocate the "closed tank" concept. Never introduce new fish to an
existing tank of fish. most fish out there in stores etc carry parasites in their
slime coats or inside. they are mostly immune to their parasite load if not robustly
immune typically coming out of a pond. but your nicely maintained fish AT HOME
probably have gotten rid of all the cooties and so their immunity may have fallen
over time. while they may respond well to a SMALL amount of parasites, they almost
always are going to get sick and DIE from a LARGE number of parasites.
ponds are healthy places (for the most part) so fish can carry a pretty large load/be
exposed to a large number of cooties and fight it off. the indoor tank is not the
same. in fact, if people absolutely must put fish together it is better to put em
all in a pond together over summer and then move them into the same tank together in
fall.
salt strips the slime coat AND salt in the water keeps that slime coat turning over.
slime ALSO contains antibodies and antimicrobial proteins.
1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few
days. Use rock salt with no additives. the kind used for water softeners is best,
crystal rock salt not the pellets. Ingrid


Curious George > wrote:
>I understand it's advisable to perform a salt dip for a new fish or
>when bringing in from a pond. Are fancy GF really that heaty that I
>can really transport one from the store, dump it in a salt bath, then
>dump it straight into a quarantine tank? Seems awful stressful to me.
>This flies in the face of how all other fish seem to need to be
>acclimated to a new tank. Should I at least let a new fish adjust to
>a quarantine tank for a few days to get over the journey before
>dipping?
>
>AFAIK salt dips strip the slime coat, stimulates new slime production
>as well as knock out many pathogens. But since stripping the slime
>coat makes them MORE vulnerable to infection - how long should one
>wait to introduce them to a community tank?
>
>What's the minimum size/age where it's safe to dip?
>
>Is it best to put the GF in a mild salt solution (~1tbsp/5gal) after
>the dip and then gradually reduce the salinity over time?
>
>TIA



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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
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any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Curious George]

Just the expert I was hoping would respond. "Puregold" is pure gold,
and also, along with Koko's GF, where I got the idea to salt dip my
next GF purchase.

Unfortunately I still have the apprehension that a salt dip may be an
unnecessary stress esp since in my case I don't have an established
community tank with fish that have been pampered for years- although
any possible second fish will likely come from a different source. I
assume then that your perspective is that any healthy GF can easily
tolerate a dip (it is not very stressful) and there is a much greater
risk from pathogens from introducing a new fish. I guess that makes
GF extremely hearty and dirty/disease ridden compared to other fish?

If you don't mind a little more spoon feeding I have a few questions I
don't see the answers to on your site:

Are there any changes to the regimen for a new fish if the store uses
salt, or if it doesn't? You mention to ask but I'm not sure what to
do with the answer.

I can float the new fish in the salt bath bucket, then catch & release
into the dip for 30 seconds to 1 min then move to the quarantine tank
with 1 tablespoon salt per 5 gals, and keep that concentration for a
month of quarantine? Is that OK, should I reduce salinity over time?

What concentration of salt do you recommend I do permanently for a
tank, or is salt only for treatment for finite periods?

What is the minimum size/age fish you feel can stand a salt dip?

When you say " 'closed tank' concept" do you mean 1 month quarantine
or never_ever_ allowing fish from different sources to mix?

Thanks.

[Curious George]

Too bad. I was really hoping to get your perspective on at least some
of those question Ingrid.

Happy Holidays. Thanks to _everyone_ for the help thus far.

[Koi-lo]

"Curious George" > wrote in message
...
> When you say " 'closed tank' concept" do you mean 1 month quarantine
> or never_ever_ allowing fish from different sources to mix?
===============================
After quarantine and treatment for any parasites, you can usually "safely"
add new fish to an existing tank.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
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[[email protected]]

yes, any fish over an inch will tolerate BRIEF salt dips. I dont do the full 5
minutes. I help it along by stroking the fish to help the slime coat slip off.
no.. no difference in regimen
for the first month at least keep the salt at 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons
increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days.
1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. but be sure to TEST YOUR WATER. people near oceans
typically have salt levels in their water CLOSE to those for maintenance. many
people who say they DONT use salt, or have had adverse reactions have higher salt
levels and may have overdosed. a good pond salt test kit is essential for keeping an
eye on salt.
closed tank means once fish are in a tank for more than a couple months no new fish
are EVER put in..... unless all the fish go out to a pond together. Ingrid

Curious George > wrote:
>assume then that your perspective is that any healthy GF can easily
>tolerate a dip (it is not very stressful) and there is a much greater
>risk from pathogens from introducing a new fish. I guess that makes
>GF extremely hearty and dirty/disease ridden compared to other fish?

>Are there any changes to the regimen for a new fish if the store uses
>salt, or if it doesn't?
>
>I can float the new fish in the salt bath bucket, then catch & release
>into the dip for 30 seconds to 1 min then move to the quarantine tank
>with 1 tablespoon salt per 5 gals, and keep that concentration for a
>month of quarantine? Is that OK, should I reduce salinity over time?
>
>What concentration of salt do you recommend I do permanently for a
>tank, or is salt only for treatment for finite periods?
>
>What is the minimum size/age fish you feel can stand a salt dip?
>
>When you say " 'closed tank' concept" do you mean 1 month quarantine
>or never_ever_ allowing fish from different sources to mix?
>
>Thanks.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Curious George]

I guess I gave up too soon. Thanks very much.