My Fishtank of Death - Part II

[Leor Amikam]

Please see previous post: http://tinyurl.com/9h9ga

OK, here is what I have done since I got many helpful responses. I got a
power head for the UGF and have been changing/vacuming
once a week. I also reduced the # hours that my tank light is on. I also
got a larger air stone. My tank is still
completely clouded for several weeks now. The remaining fish seem to be OK.
It is so mukry, that I can't even see if my
remaining frog is alive. I have been testing the water, and every thing
seems to be in tolerance. I then took a water sample to a local pet store
that has a good fish dept. They said my pH was low (my test kit registered
normal - 6.8-7.1). He said to turn the heat up to 78-80 deg. and see what
happens. I did that, and no changes yet. I have tried the algae removers
and clearing solutions, and no changes.
Any more suggestions?

Thanks.

[Fishman]

Leor,

It sounds like you've really taken to heart the advice you have been getting
here on the board.

I do have a few questions that may help me and others continue to diagnose
your setup. You indicate that you are vacuuming your gravel once a week,
how much of the gravel do you vacuum? All of it or half during each
session? Do you have any other form of filtration besides the UGF to
support your biological filter needs? How deep is the gravel bed? Do you
have about 2" of gravel on top of the plate?

When you say that your water is murky, I assume you mean that it is not
green either. This condition is indicative of a bacterial bloom. There are
two main reasons this occurs: Too much waste (which becomes food for the
bacteria) or your tank is too new (as far as the nitrogen cycle is
concerned). If you are over vacuuming your gravel and you have no other
biological filtration, you may very well be removing all the beneifial
bacterial out of the gravel bed and your tank is trying to recycle itself.

If you're test kits indicate that things are within tolerance but the pet
store's test results are different, consider new test kits. They do age and
old test kits can return bad results. Anything over 1 year is too old.
Many people do an automatic replacement after 6 months. Also, regarding
tolerances, actual numbers are better. What may be an acceptable range in
pH for some fish can be very unacceptable for others. 6.8 to 7.1 is a very
good default range for most of the fish in the hobby. A list of your
inhabitants (besides the frog) could help us determine more accurately what
a more suitable range would be. More importantly though is not to change
the pH too quickly. Fish are amazing creature of adaptation and even an
angel fish can be prosperous in a pH of 7.4 when their natural habitat is
much lower than that.

78-80 degrees is a good tropical range too. Try to keep the temperature
constant and this is a good range again unless you have cold water species
(which your list can help here as well).

Fishman


"Leor Amikam" > wrote in message
. ..
> Please see previous post: http://tinyurl.com/9h9ga
>
> OK, here is what I have done since I got many helpful responses. I got a
> power head for the UGF and have been changing/vacuming
> once a week. I also reduced the # hours that my tank light is on. I also
> got a larger air stone. My tank is still
> completely clouded for several weeks now. The remaining fish seem to be
OK.
> It is so mukry, that I can't even see if my
> remaining frog is alive. I have been testing the water, and every thing
> seems to be in tolerance. I then took a water sample to a local pet store
> that has a good fish dept. They said my pH was low (my test kit
registered
> normal - 6.8-7.1). He said to turn the heat up to 78-80 deg. and see
what
> happens. I did that, and no changes yet. I have tried the algae removers
> and clearing solutions, and no changes.
> Any more suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
>

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom psoted.

--
You can find my public key at https://keyserver1.pgp.com
"Leor Amikam" > wrote in message
. ..
> Please see previous post: http://tinyurl.com/9h9ga
>
> OK, here is what I have done since I got many helpful responses. I got a
> power head for the UGF and have been changing/vacuming
> once a week. I also reduced the # hours that my tank light is on. I also
> got a larger air stone. My tank is still
> completely clouded for several weeks now. The remaining fish seem to be
OK.
> It is so mukry, that I can't even see if my
> remaining frog is alive. I have been testing the water, and every thing
> seems to be in tolerance. I then took a water sample to a local pet store
> that has a good fish dept. They said my pH was low (my test kit
registered
> normal - 6.8-7.1). He said to turn the heat up to 78-80 deg. and see
what
> happens. I did that, and no changes yet. I have tried the algae removers
> and clearing solutions, and no changes.
> Any more suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
>

If your water is cloudy but not green then you most likely have a bacterial
bloom which can possibly be caused by overfeeding. I overfeed occasionally I
have realized and it causes a temporary cloudiness until I have restricted
myself from overfeeding (can be difficult to know if I have overfed or not
until way after the fact as my fish population increases until I
occasionally donate a ton to a lfs). Don't use algae killers unless maybe
(and I mean MAYBE) the water is green to greenish. Those chemicals can have
nasty side effects (such as destroying the good bacteria in the tank and
destroying live plants, etc.). Good luck and later!

[nobody101]

See my responses below
"Fishman" > wrote in message
news:A%3qf.17513$l25.905@trnddc03...
> Leor,
>
> It sounds like you've really taken to heart the advice you have been
getting
> here on the board.
>
> I do have a few questions that may help me and others continue to diagnose
> your setup. You indicate that you are vacuuming your gravel once a week,
> how much of the gravel do you vacuum?

I use a Phython and remove about 10-15% of the water and probably in the
process, vacuum all around
the bottom. Some parts of the floor are inaccessible due to a plant and
some ornaments.

> Do you have any other form of filtration besides the UGF to
> support your biological filter needs?

I also have an Aqua-mini filter. I have has that for a long time also.

> How deep is the gravel bed? Do you
> have about 2" of gravel on top of the plate?

Yes, it is about 2", maybe a little less. I did buy some new gravel but
have not put any in the tank yet.


> When you say that your water is murky, I assume you mean that it is not
> green either. This condition is indicative of a bacterial bloom

It is murky, with a green tint to it. If I take some water out of the tank
and put it in a clear container,
I really don't see any readily visible particles. How large/small is
alagae?

.. There are
> two main reasons this occurs: Too much waste (which becomes food for the
> bacteria) or your tank is too new (as far as the nitrogen cycle is
> concerned). If you are over vacuuming your gravel and you have no other
> biological filtration, you may very well be removing all the beneifial
> bacterial out of the gravel bed and your tank is trying to recycle itself.
>
> If you're test kits indicate that things are within tolerance but the pet
> store's test results are different, consider new test kits. They do age
and
> old test kits can return bad results. Anything over 1 year is too old.

My test kit is quite old. I'll get a new one and test again.

> Many people do an automatic replacement after 6 months. Also, regarding
> tolerances, actual numbers are better. What may be an acceptable range in
> pH for some fish can be very unacceptable for others. 6.8 to 7.1 is a
very
> good default range for most of the fish in the hobby. A list of your
> inhabitants (besides the frog) could help us determine more accurately
what
> a more suitable range would be. More importantly though is not to change
> the pH too quickly. Fish are amazing creature of adaptation and even an
> angel fish can be prosperous in a pH of 7.4 when their natural habitat is
> much lower than that.
>
> 78-80 degrees is a good tropical range too. Try to keep the temperature
> constant and this is a good range again unless you have cold water species
> (which your list can help here as well).
>
> Fishman
>
>
> "Leor Amikam" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Please see previous post: http://tinyurl.com/9h9ga
> >
> > OK, here is what I have done since I got many helpful responses. I got
a
> > power head for the UGF and have been changing/vacuming
> > once a week. I also reduced the # hours that my tank light is on. I
also
> > got a larger air stone. My tank is still
> > completely clouded for several weeks now. The remaining fish seem to be
> OK.
> > It is so mukry, that I can't even see if my
> > remaining frog is alive. I have been testing the water, and every thing
> > seems to be in tolerance. I then took a water sample to a local pet
store
> > that has a good fish dept. They said my pH was low (my test kit
> registered
> > normal - 6.8-7.1). He said to turn the heat up to 78-80 deg. and see
> what
> > happens. I did that, and no changes yet. I have tried the algae
removers
> > and clearing solutions, and no changes.
> > Any more suggestions?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
>
>

[Fishman]

The green tint in your water is from an algae bloom. Too many nutrients
(phosphate, nitrate, post biological filtration stuff) and a lot of light.

Although you still have a secondary biofiltration device (Aqua mini-filter)
it too needs servicing. You may only want to do either 1/2 the gravel per
water change or the aqua filter. Don't do both. The idea is to maintain
enough of the benefitial bacteria in the filter media to keep the tank from
going through the cycle process again as well as keep the filters
maintained.

Free floating algae is microscopic, so you will not really see the actual
particles, only the change in water color and opacity. With the amount of
water canges you are doing, you need to consider the amount of nutrients you
are adding on a regular basis. Namely, food. How often and how much. Most
people greatly overfeed their fish and it is perhaps the number 1 reason for
problems in the aquarium. I only feed enough for my fish to consume in a 3
minute time period everyother day. If I feel generous, I'll add another
feeding session inbetween but Thanksgiving, Easter and Christmas only happen
once a year (grin).

Fishman


"nobody101" > wrote in message
. ..
> See my responses below
> "Fishman" > wrote in message
> news:A%3qf.17513$l25.905@trnddc03...
> > Leor,
> >
> > It sounds like you've really taken to heart the advice you have been
> getting
> > here on the board.
> >
> > I do have a few questions that may help me and others continue to
diagnose
> > your setup. You indicate that you are vacuuming your gravel once a
week,
> > how much of the gravel do you vacuum?
>
> I use a Phython and remove about 10-15% of the water and probably in
the
> process, vacuum all around
> the bottom. Some parts of the floor are inaccessible due to a plant and
> some ornaments.
>
> > Do you have any other form of filtration besides the UGF to
> > support your biological filter needs?
>
> I also have an Aqua-mini filter. I have has that for a long time also.
>
> > How deep is the gravel bed? Do you
> > have about 2" of gravel on top of the plate?
>
> Yes, it is about 2", maybe a little less. I did buy some new gravel but
> have not put any in the tank yet.
>
>
> > When you say that your water is murky, I assume you mean that it is not
> > green either. This condition is indicative of a bacterial bloom
>
> It is murky, with a green tint to it. If I take some water out of the tank
> and put it in a clear container,
> I really don't see any readily visible particles. How large/small is
> alagae?
>
> . There are
> > two main reasons this occurs: Too much waste (which becomes food for
the
> > bacteria) or your tank is too new (as far as the nitrogen cycle is
> > concerned). If you are over vacuuming your gravel and you have no other
> > biological filtration, you may very well be removing all the beneifial
> > bacterial out of the gravel bed and your tank is trying to recycle
itself.
> >
> > If you're test kits indicate that things are within tolerance but the
pet
> > store's test results are different, consider new test kits. They do age
> and
> > old test kits can return bad results. Anything over 1 year is too old.
>
> My test kit is quite old. I'll get a new one and test again.
>
> > Many people do an automatic replacement after 6 months. Also, regarding
> > tolerances, actual numbers are better. What may be an acceptable range
in
> > pH for some fish can be very unacceptable for others. 6.8 to 7.1 is a
> very
> > good default range for most of the fish in the hobby. A list of your
> > inhabitants (besides the frog) could help us determine more accurately
> what
> > a more suitable range would be. More importantly though is not to
change
> > the pH too quickly. Fish are amazing creature of adaptation and even an
> > angel fish can be prosperous in a pH of 7.4 when their natural habitat
is
> > much lower than that.
> >
> > 78-80 degrees is a good tropical range too. Try to keep the temperature
> > constant and this is a good range again unless you have cold water
species
> > (which your list can help here as well).
> >
> > Fishman
> >
> >
> > "Leor Amikam" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > Please see previous post: http://tinyurl.com/9h9ga
> > >
> > > OK, here is what I have done since I got many helpful responses. I
got
> a
> > > power head for the UGF and have been changing/vacuming
> > > once a week. I also reduced the # hours that my tank light is on. I
> also
> > > got a larger air stone. My tank is still
> > > completely clouded for several weeks now. The remaining fish seem to
be
> > OK.
> > > It is so mukry, that I can't even see if my
> > > remaining frog is alive. I have been testing the water, and every
thing
> > > seems to be in tolerance. I then took a water sample to a local pet
> store
> > > that has a good fish dept. They said my pH was low (my test kit
> > registered
> > > normal - 6.8-7.1). He said to turn the heat up to 78-80 deg. and see
> > what
> > > happens. I did that, and no changes yet. I have tried the algae
> removers
> > > and clearing solutions, and no changes.
> > > Any more suggestions?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> I got a power head for the UGF and have been
> changing/vacuming

Sorry, but is "UGF" and "vacuming"?

And what kind of power head seem to be a good choice for a
10 gallon tank?

> I also reduced the # hours that my tank
> light is on.

I would continue keeping life plants. I think you made good
experiences with life plants. They help to keep your water
clear.

> I also
> got a larger air stone.

Sorry, why?

> I also
> completely clouded for several weeks now.

Please change water. Water changes dilute bacteria. Change
every day 60-80% as long as they seem to be able to cloud
the water.

> I then took a water sample to a
> local pet store
> that has a good fish dept. They said my pH was low (my
> test kit registered
> normal - 6.8-7.1).

Sorry, what means "was low"? And how many time passed
between taking a water sample and testing it in the pet
shop?

In your tank (or water sample) might be present processes
that reduce O2 and produce CO2. For example bacteria reduce
O2 and produce CO2, and CO2 is able to change PH.

> He said to turn the heat up to 78-80
> deg. and see what
> happens.

Relating to what fish?

> I have tried
> the algae removers and clearing solutions

For what?

> Any more suggestions?

Any more informations? ;-)

--
cu
Marco

[Marco Schwarz]

> Sorry, but is "UGF" and "vacuming"?
+ what
--
cu
Marco

[Daniel Morrow]

UGF = undergravel filter (plates), vacuuming = siphoning water with an extra
big tube and jostling the gravel (substrate) at the same time to remove
solid waste AND change water at the same time *(usually). Good luck and
later!

--
You can find my public key at https://keyserver1.pgp.com
"Marco Schwarz" > wrote in message
...
> > Sorry, but is "UGF" and "vacuming"?
> + what
> --
> cu
> Marco

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> UGF = undergravel filter (plates), vacuuming = siphoning
> water with an extra big tube and jostling the gravel
> (substrate) at the same time to remove solid waste AND
> change water at the same time *(usually). Good luck and
> later!

Thanks.

cu
Marco