SAE behaviour

[Bill Stock]

[Sorry for the double post, I originally posted to the wrong group.]

I just added a new batch of SAEs to my office tank. I'll move some off to
the Plant tank in a few weeks and leave a few behind. I can't seem to keep
Otos in the Plant tank, they just seem to disappear. Likely the Barbs are
the problem, but they don't seem to bother the Tetras.

The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search? But they
are ignoring the Green Dust Algae on the front glass, swimming right by it.

Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group. The office tank is only ten
gallons, so I did not want to leave more than 1 or 2 SAEs. Maybe I'll move
all the SAEs and leave the Otos behind, but that would give me six SAEs in
the 55 gallon. :) I KNOW, a BIGGER office tank. LOL.

[NetMax]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> [Sorry for the double post, I originally posted to the wrong group.]
>
> I just added a new batch of SAEs to my office tank. I'll move some off
> to
> the Plant tank in a few weeks and leave a few behind. I can't seem to
> keep
> Otos in the Plant tank, they just seem to disappear. Likely the Barbs
> are
> the problem, but they don't seem to bother the Tetras.
>
> The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming
> vertically
> up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search? But
> they
> are ignoring the Green Dust Algae on the front glass, swimming right by
> it.

Just some personal observation, but bottom dwellers behave in a somewhat
unique way when acclimating from being moved (also from large water
changes). I attribute it from their coming from a riverine environment,
where the water was faster, fresher and more oxygenated than typically
found in an aquarium. In a water change, I suspect it is the gaseous
imbalance for a day or two. For moves, it might be the nitrates and
other DOCs.

Corys go into cruise mode, back & forth. CAEs, SAEs, Otos, Plecs,
Butterfly loaches etc get very restless, repeating a dart & park routine,
often vertically on the glass. Botia either get into a cruise mode
across the glass, or pile into a small spot and try to disappear.
Non-botia loaches (ie: Kuhlis, Dojos etc) find a corner and 'dance' up &
down the glass. Typically they will not search for food during this
acclimation period, but may eat if something crosses their path.

Some other fish will do something similar, such as Platys dancing the
corner glass. I suspect they are using physical activity to force their
metabolism to increase, to more quickly adapt to whatever it is that they
need to adapt to.

To make a long story short (definitely not one of my talents ;~), their
behaviour for the first 2 days is not representative of how they will be
after the have settled in.

> Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group. The office tank is only ten
> gallons, so I did not want to leave more than 1 or 2 SAEs. Maybe I'll
> move
> all the SAEs and leave the Otos behind, but that would give me six SAEs
> in
> the 55 gallon. :) I KNOW, a BIGGER office tank. LOL.

I could be mistaken, but I've never considered it desirable to shoal the
larger cyprinides SAEs , CAEs, Redtail sharks, Rainbow sharks etc, as
they can be territorial, and don't seem to suffer being alone. Having
said that, if you raise a bunch of SAEs together, they will probably get
along fine, but that's a lot of fish-inches and algae-eating horsepower
in a single tank. The smaller algae eaters like Otos need to be kept in
groups as they are invisible and ineffective otherwise ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 11:41:10 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
wrote:

>[Sorry for the double post, I originally posted to the wrong group.]
>
>I just added a new batch of SAEs to my office tank. I'll move some off to
>the Plant tank in a few weeks and leave a few behind. I can't seem to keep
>Otos in the Plant tank, they just seem to disappear. Likely the Barbs are
>the problem, but they don't seem to bother the Tetras.
>
>The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
>up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search? But they
>are ignoring the Green Dust Algae on the front glass, swimming right by it.
>
>Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group. The office tank is only ten
>gallons, so I did not want to leave more than 1 or 2 SAEs. Maybe I'll move
>all the SAEs and leave the Otos behind, but that would give me six SAEs in
>the 55 gallon. :) I KNOW, a BIGGER office tank. LOL.
>

For those of us who might be new here:

SAE = ?

Sorry haven't a clue.

[Gill Passman]

wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 11:41:10 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>[Sorry for the double post, I originally posted to the wrong group.]
>>
>>I just added a new batch of SAEs to my office tank. I'll move some off to
>>the Plant tank in a few weeks and leave a few behind. I can't seem to keep
>>Otos in the Plant tank, they just seem to disappear. Likely the Barbs are
>>the problem, but they don't seem to bother the Tetras.
>>
>>The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
>>up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search? But they
>>are ignoring the Green Dust Algae on the front glass, swimming right by it.
>>
>>Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group. The office tank is only ten
>>gallons, so I did not want to leave more than 1 or 2 SAEs. Maybe I'll move
>>all the SAEs and leave the Otos behind, but that would give me six SAEs in
>>the 55 gallon. :) I KNOW, a BIGGER office tank. LOL.
>>
>
>
> For those of us who might be new here:
>
> SAE = ?
>
> Sorry haven't a clue.

Siamese Algae Eater.....for more info check out:-

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

Gill

[Bill Stock]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>> [Sorry for the double post, I originally posted to the wrong group.]
>>
>> I just added a new batch of SAEs to my office tank. I'll move some off to
>> the Plant tank in a few weeks and leave a few behind. I can't seem to
>> keep
>> Otos in the Plant tank, they just seem to disappear. Likely the Barbs are
>> the problem, but they don't seem to bother the Tetras.
>>
>> The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming
>> vertically
>> up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search? But
>> they
>> are ignoring the Green Dust Algae on the front glass, swimming right by
>> it.
>
> Just some personal observation, but bottom dwellers behave in a somewhat
> unique way when acclimating from being moved (also from large water
> changes). I attribute it from their coming from a riverine environment,
> where the water was faster, fresher and more oxygenated than typically
> found in an aquarium. In a water change, I suspect it is the gaseous
> imbalance for a day or two. For moves, it might be the nitrates and other
> DOCs.

Silly question, how does the LFS keep the Nitrates down. Since they must
have over 100 hundred ?AEs in a 25 gallon tank. I gather they don't feed
much, but do they use any resins? OR is it all in the turn over?


> Corys go into cruise mode, back & forth. CAEs, SAEs, Otos, Plecs,
> Butterfly loaches etc get very restless, repeating a dart & park routine,
> often vertically on the glass. Botia either get into a cruise mode across
> the glass, or pile into a small spot and try to disappear. Non-botia
> loaches (ie: Kuhlis, Dojos etc) find a corner and 'dance' up & down the
> glass. Typically they will not search for food during this acclimation
> period, but may eat if something crosses their path.

This sounds like it, but the last batch didn't go through this. Although I
only had two last time, which are now in the bigger tank.

> Some other fish will do something similar, such as Platys dancing the
> corner glass. I suspect they are using physical activity to force their
> metabolism to increase, to more quickly adapt to whatever it is that they
> need to adapt to.
>
> To make a long story short (definitely not one of my talents ;~), their
> behaviour for the first 2 days is not representative of how they will be
> after the have settled in.
>
>> Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group. The office tank is only ten
>> gallons, so I did not want to leave more than 1 or 2 SAEs. Maybe I'll
>> move
>> all the SAEs and leave the Otos behind, but that would give me six SAEs
>> in
>> the 55 gallon. :) I KNOW, a BIGGER office tank. LOL.
>
> I could be mistaken, but I've never considered it desirable to shoal the
> larger cyprinides SAEs , CAEs, Redtail sharks, Rainbow sharks etc, as they
> can be territorial, and don't seem to suffer being alone. Having said
> that, if you raise a bunch of SAEs together, they will probably get along
> fine, but that's a lot of fish-inches and algae-eating horsepower in a
> single tank. The smaller algae eaters like Otos need to be kept in groups
> as they are invisible and ineffective otherwise ;~).

The SAEs seem to be hanging out fine now, but they're only about 2.5". I
think I'll have to see if the LFS will do a trade in for some smaller fish
in a year or so. The Tiger Barbs are getting quite deep bodied.

I had nine Otos in my 10 gallon, while I was quarantining them. It was
spotless! :) Sadly, most have gone AWOL since moving to the larger tank.


> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[NetMax]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> [Sorry for the double post, I originally posted to the wrong group.]
>>>
>>> I just added a new batch of SAEs to my office tank. I'll move some
>>> off to
>>> the Plant tank in a few weeks and leave a few behind. I can't seem to
>>> keep
>>> Otos in the Plant tank, they just seem to disappear. Likely the Barbs
>>> are
>>> the problem, but they don't seem to bother the Tetras.
>>>
>>> The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming
>>> vertically
>>> up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search? But
>>> they
>>> are ignoring the Green Dust Algae on the front glass, swimming right
>>> by it.
>>
>> Just some personal observation, but bottom dwellers behave in a
>> somewhat unique way when acclimating from being moved (also from large
>> water changes). I attribute it from their coming from a riverine
>> environment, where the water was faster, fresher and more oxygenated
>> than typically found in an aquarium. In a water change, I suspect it
>> is the gaseous imbalance for a day or two. For moves, it might be the
>> nitrates and other DOCs.
>
> Silly question, how does the LFS keep the Nitrates down. Since they
> must have over 100 hundred ?AEs in a 25 gallon tank. I gather they
> don't feed much, but do they use any resins? OR is it all in the turn
> over?


Not silly. Some LFS do not. NO3 is relatively non-toxic and it is luck
of the draw whether the fish are being moved into a home tank which has
equally high NO3 levels, or else there is some shock. Some LFS regularly
gravel vacuum, so they inadvertently control NO3 through water changes.
Some LFS use a lot of live plants, so these soak up the NO3. Some use
automated water change systems.

In my shop, I used a combination of gravel vacuuming (twice a week, 3
times for the Oscar tank ;~), lots of live plants (which generally grew
much better than I could ever achieve at home) and water changes (four 5g
water changes per day, per tank, automated). If you are buying small or
sensitive fish, I always recommend that when comparing water parameters,
check their NO3 levels. In some stores, it gets to obscene levels.
--
www.NetMax.tk

<snip>

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "Bill Stock" > Spake Unto All:

>The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
>up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search?

No, they're likely just being their hyperactive selves. SAE's are
hyper, and especially when they're new in an aquarium will they do a
lot of swimming up & down the glass.

>Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group.

My experience is that a single SAE is perfectly OK. There's also a lot
less chasing, which any more timid fish you might have will
appreciate.

However, a 10G is really too small for SAE's. I'd recommend a single
ancistrus instead - it grows big too, but it's not as an active fish
as the SAE.

[Liisa Sarakontu]

"NetMax" > wrote in
:

> I could be mistaken, but I've never considered it desirable to shoal
> the larger cyprinides SAEs , CAEs, Redtail sharks, Rainbow sharks etc,
> as they can be territorial, and don't seem to suffer being alone.

All the other fish you listed are territorial when adult, but SAEs are
schoolers for all of their lives. Don't keep them alone. They are not as
peaceful as several tetras, but they are active and do some fighting with
their school mates (like many other barbs do). Still they like to have
company and can turn aggressive if there are no other SAEs in the tank.

Liisa

[Dick]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:18:04 +0000 (UTC), Liisa Sarakontu
> wrote:

>"NetMax" > wrote in
:
>
>> I could be mistaken, but I've never considered it desirable to shoal
>> the larger cyprinides SAEs , CAEs, Redtail sharks, Rainbow sharks etc,
>> as they can be territorial, and don't seem to suffer being alone.
>
>All the other fish you listed are territorial when adult, but SAEs are
>schoolers for all of their lives. Don't keep them alone. They are not as
>peaceful as several tetras, but they are active and do some fighting with
>their school mates (like many other barbs do). Still they like to have
>company and can turn aggressive if there are no other SAEs in the tank.
>
>Liisa

I sure have to disagree with your characterization of SAEs. I have
one in a 10 gallon tank with 2 Clown Loaches and 4 Platties. It shows
no aggression and is as apt to swim with the others as to swim alone.

I have 9 in a 75 gallon community tank and have never seen one attack
or show any aggression toward another fish. The Clowns and the SAEs
are often side by side and even resting in touch with one another.
They have been together for over 2 years. In the first year each
species stayed together, but now they mingle all the time.

I have no idea why our experience is so different. I like the SAEs.
Often they rest lightly on leaves or gravel alone or in groups, but
come other times they are quite active especially at feeding time. It
never fails to amaze me how so many fish can occupy the feeding zone
so peacefully. I have seen smaller fish go for the same flake as a
SAE and the SAE swerve off if the little fish is closer.

As you can tell I really enjoy the breed. I have a 29 gallon tank
with 6 more, so I have a sample of their behavior in different
settings.

dick

[Dick]

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:42:04 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
> wrote:

>Thusly "Bill Stock" > Spake Unto All:
>
>>The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
>>up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search?
>
>No, they're likely just being their hyperactive selves. SAE's are
>hyper, and especially when they're new in an aquarium will they do a
>lot of swimming up & down the glass.
>
>>Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group.
>
>My experience is that a single SAE is perfectly OK. There's also a lot
>less chasing, which any more timid fish you might have will
>appreciate.
>
>However, a 10G is really too small for SAE's. I'd recommend a single
>ancistrus instead - it grows big too, but it's not as an active fish
>as the SAE.

I have one SAE in a 10 gallon tank with 2 Clown Loaches. They have
been in the tank with some Platties for over 2 years. I am happy with
the tank.

I don't see the single SAE swimming up the glass, but the 10 in the 75
gallon tank are often going up the front glass. Right now all are
settled on leaves resting, but as feeding time approaches they will
become quite active.

I don't understand why people say size and temperament is a problem
with these fish. In my over 2 years experience with them, they are
great in community tanks. They are one of my favorites. It is weird
to see a 5 inch fish resting on a plant leaf. Right now, in the front
of my 75 gallon tank, I see 2 SAEs resting on Crypt leaves while
underneath the same leaves are 2 Clown Loaches.

dick

[Gill Passman]

Dick wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:42:04 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Thusly "Bill Stock" > Spake Unto All:
>>
>>
>>>The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
>>>up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search?
>>
>>No, they're likely just being their hyperactive selves. SAE's are
>>hyper, and especially when they're new in an aquarium will they do a
>>lot of swimming up & down the glass.
>>
>>
>>>Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group.
>>
>>My experience is that a single SAE is perfectly OK. There's also a lot
>>less chasing, which any more timid fish you might have will
>>appreciate.
>>
>>However, a 10G is really too small for SAE's. I'd recommend a single
>>ancistrus instead - it grows big too, but it's not as an active fish
>>as the SAE.
>
>
> I have one SAE in a 10 gallon tank with 2 Clown Loaches. They have
> been in the tank with some Platties for over 2 years. I am happy with
> the tank.
>
> I don't see the single SAE swimming up the glass, but the 10 in the 75
> gallon tank are often going up the front glass. Right now all are
> settled on leaves resting, but as feeding time approaches they will
> become quite active.
>
> I don't understand why people say size and temperament is a problem
> with these fish. In my over 2 years experience with them, they are
> great in community tanks. They are one of my favorites. It is weird
> to see a 5 inch fish resting on a plant leaf. Right now, in the front
> of my 75 gallon tank, I see 2 SAEs resting on Crypt leaves while
> underneath the same leaves are 2 Clown Loaches.
>
> dick

I wonder if it is because false SAEs are often confused for the real
thing. I have Flying Foxes rather than SAEs but these can quite often
get the reputation for agression (mine aren't). My SIL has 3 true SAE's
that are very peaceful - her one remaining Clown Loach shoals with them.

Gill

[NetMax]

"Liisa Sarakontu" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > wrote in
> :
>
>> I could be mistaken, but I've never considered it desirable to shoal
>> the larger cyprinides SAEs , CAEs, Redtail sharks, Rainbow sharks etc,
>> as they can be territorial, and don't seem to suffer being alone.
>
> All the other fish you listed are territorial when adult, but SAEs are
> schoolers for all of their lives. Don't keep them alone. They are not
> as
> peaceful as several tetras, but they are active and do some fighting
> with
> their school mates (like many other barbs do). Still they like to have
> company and can turn aggressive if there are no other SAEs in the tank.
>
> Liisa

Thanks for that Liisa. It's interesting what a range of behaviours can
be found sometimes. I've only seen adult SAEs a few times, and they were
shoaling quite actively in a large tank. I didn't think they would've
been very peaceful in a smaller tank, and that there would've been
territorial pressures between them.

OT, someone likes fish in Erie, PA
http://www.gofisherie.com/fish_pictures.html
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liisa Sarakontu]

Dick > wrote in
:

> I sure have to disagree with your characterization of SAEs. I have
> one in a 10 gallon tank with 2 Clown Loaches and 4 Platties. It shows
> no aggression and is as apt to swim with the others as to swim alone.

10 gallon tank, SAEs and Clowns - sheesh! Unless this situation isn't going
to last more than two-three weeks, why on earth you are keeping them there?
Why you are not giving them enough room to be able to grow like their genes
are programmed? SAEs get easily over 4" long, good adult size is 5-6" (12 -
15 cm). It is rare to see Clowns which are over 6" long, but in proper, big
tank they get rather easily 8" long and in wild even over 12" long. Sadly,
stunted 3-4" Clowns are far too common in home aquariums.

And no, it is not true that "fish grow just up to what the tank size
allows." The glass walls don't prohibit growth (until the fish really
touches them) but it is the water quality. Fish get badly stunted in
overcrowded, badly treated tanks. I've seen a Liposarcus pleco ("common
pleco") which was about 35 cm (14") long, and whose spine was crooked as it
didn't have any room to even turn around in its small tank any more. When I
saw it, it was given away to a local pet shop, which was searching a new,
much bigger home for it. If the tank size had decided its adult size, it
wouldn't have grown longer than 4-6".

Anyway, stunted fish often act more docile than well kept, normally grown
fish of the same species. They are just too lethargic to care.

> I have 9 in a 75 gallon community tank and have never seen one attack
> or show any aggression toward another fish.

That's more normal behaviour for a proper school of this species. Goes well
with my own SAEs, who haven't bothered other species.

Liisa

[Dick]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 16:23:12 +0000 (UTC), Liisa Sarakontu
> wrote:

>Dick > wrote in
:
>
>> I sure have to disagree with your characterization of SAEs. I have
>> one in a 10 gallon tank with 2 Clown Loaches and 4 Platties. It shows
>> no aggression and is as apt to swim with the others as to swim alone.
>
>10 gallon tank, SAEs and Clowns - sheesh! Unless this situation isn't going
>to last more than two-three weeks, why on earth you are keeping them there?
>Why you are not giving them enough room to be able to grow like their genes
>are programmed? SAEs get easily over 4" long, good adult size is 5-6" (12 -
>15 cm). It is rare to see Clowns which are over 6" long, but in proper, big
>tank they get rather easily 8" long and in wild even over 12" long. Sadly,
>stunted 3-4" Clowns are far too common in home aquariums.
>

If the 2 Clowns in the 10 gallon tank are stunted, then so to are the
other 9 in the 29 and 75 gallon tank. If the fish are active,
colorful and eat well, then I will keep them in the 10. They have
been there 2 years plus. They "own" the Mill House ornament. One is
more shy than the other, but both make their appearance throughout the
day. I probably see those 2 even more than the 9 in the larger tanks.

I didn't do my research before buying the Clowns, I was taken by what
others reported and the pictures. After I got them I started being
alarmed by what was being said about their size, like up to 24 inches.
I worried for a year until I realized my fish were not growing and
over the next year I saw no growth I could recognize. At age 70, I
probably won't outlive the Clowns or the SAEs. If they survive my
death, others can place them in appropriate tanks. Meanwhile I get a
lot of pleasure from my fish and have no room for more tanks nor do I
have a LFS to use as a relief valve.

>And no, it is not true that "fish grow just up to what the tank size
>allows." The glass walls don't prohibit growth (until the fish really
>touches them) but it is the water quality. Fish get badly stunted in
>overcrowded, badly treated tanks. I've seen a Liposarcus pleco ("common
>pleco") which was about 35 cm (14") long, and whose spine was crooked as it
>didn't have any room to even turn around in its small tank any more. When I
>saw it, it was given away to a local pet shop, which was searching a new,
>much bigger home for it. If the tank size had decided its adult size, it
>wouldn't have grown longer than 4-6".

I had one stunted Clown. It was obviously stunted. It died in the
first year. If my fish are stunted, it isn't showing up in their
health.

>
>Anyway, stunted fish often act more docile than well kept, normally grown
>fish of the same species. They are just too lethargic to care.
>
>> I have 9 in a 75 gallon community tank and have never seen one attack
>> or show any aggression toward another fish.
>
>That's more normal behaviour for a proper school of this species. Goes well
>with my own SAEs, who haven't bothered other species.
>
>Liisa

You generalize too much. I can read. I know what is reported by
"experts," but I place no great value on expert opinions. I have
found that experts like to compete for discovering the biggest and
worst doomsday scenarios. I may have been tardy in my research, but
for now, I am glad. Along with Plecos, I find SAEs and Clowns to be
great community members.

As for aggressive behavior being more normal, most species, including
man, tend to be more aggressive when over crowded. Why should Clowns
be different except for you to support your opinion.

dick

[Elaine T]

Bill Stock wrote:

> Silly question, how does the LFS keep the Nitrates down. Since they must
> have over 100 hundred ?AEs in a 25 gallon tank. I gather they don't feed
> much, but do they use any resins? OR is it all in the turn over?

Actually, the LFS where I worked fed generously. Food is cheap, and
bigger fish sell for more money. If we had fish for a few weeks, the
owner could usually grow them enough to increase the price. New imports
also usually needed good, high-protein food to recover from the shipping
stress.

Turnover handled the nitrates. We bagged so many fish on the weekends
that we had substantial water changes from the water that left the store
in fish bags. We would actually have temperature drops of a couple
degrees sometimes because we were refilling from the cold mains so
quickly. During the week we gravel-vacced, changing out even more
water. There was never any need for resins because of the sheer volume
of water that went through the big freshwater systems. The sal****er
fish-only system had a huge skimmer to keep DOC down (and thus nitrates)
and got daily small water changes. The sensitive, photosynthetic
inverts were on a separate, fishless system so there was no real source
of nitrates in the first place.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Dick wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:42:04 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Thusly "Bill Stock" > Spake Unto All:
>>
>>
>>>The new SAEs seem to be doing a lot of "tail standing", swimming vertically
>>>up and down the glass. I gather this is some kind of food search?
>>
>>No, they're likely just being their hyperactive selves. SAE's are
>>hyper, and especially when they're new in an aquarium will they do a
>>lot of swimming up & down the glass.
>>
>>
>>>Also how few SAEs can I leave in a group.
>>
>>My experience is that a single SAE is perfectly OK. There's also a lot
>>less chasing, which any more timid fish you might have will
>>appreciate.
>>
>>However, a 10G is really too small for SAE's. I'd recommend a single
>>ancistrus instead - it grows big too, but it's not as an active fish
>>as the SAE.
>
>
> I have one SAE in a 10 gallon tank with 2 Clown Loaches. They have
> been in the tank with some Platties for over 2 years. I am happy with
> the tank.
>
> I don't see the single SAE swimming up the glass, but the 10 in the 75
> gallon tank are often going up the front glass. Right now all are
> settled on leaves resting, but as feeding time approaches they will
> become quite active.
>
> I don't understand why people say size and temperament is a problem
> with these fish. In my over 2 years experience with them, they are
> great in community tanks. They are one of my favorites. It is weird
> to see a 5 inch fish resting on a plant leaf. Right now, in the front
> of my 75 gallon tank, I see 2 SAEs resting on Crypt leaves while
> underneath the same leaves are 2 Clown Loaches.
>
> dick

If the tank ain't broken, don't fix it! People have gotten extremely
conservative about clowns around here and I'm not sure why. They're
very hardy fish once acclimated and IME do fine in pairs and trios in
both small and large tanks. You may see more interesting and natural
behaviors with five or six fish, but not many of us have that kind of
tank space.

With good water quality and frequent changes or lots of activated carbon
to keep hormone levels low, clowns should eventually outgrow a 10 gallon
tank. As you point out, it will take quite a while since they're slow
growers. They will outlive your platies, at which point you may choose
to have a 10 gallon tank with two fat, happy clowns. ;-)

As for SAE, I've never seen an aggressive true SAE either. I think I
read that SAE are a species complex so that may explain some of the
differences in people's experiences.

--
Elaine T __
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