Newbie question - Minimum size of a sal****er tank

[James Cheung]

Hello folks,

Happy new year first of all. My wife and I have decided to set up a new
salt-water tank in our living room. Since I'm totally new with the marine
tank, I have some questions and hopefully you pros can help me out.

1. Petco is selling a 12 gallon tank complete with all the salt-water
accessories that need to get me started (salt, meters, filter, net, testing
equipments). However, I heard people saying that setting up a salt-water
tank for less than 30 gallon is waste of time because small tanks tend to
have less buffer than a bigger tank. Is this true? Or it¹s just a myth?
2. If 12-gallon tank is too small, what¹d be the minimum size that I should
consider? Granted I will monitor the water in a daily basis, but there will
be times that I go on vacation and might need my tank unattended for a week
or two.
3. I understand that after I have setup the tank initially, I should leave
the water and filtration system running for at least two weeks. What are
some of the things that I should be aware of during this period, or before I
start setting things up?
4. Aside from the hanging type of filter it comes with the Petco package (if
I go for the 12 gallon option), should I get additional filters to keep the
water cleaned and stabilized at all time? If so, what type or brand that
you¹d recommend.

Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers.

- James

[Roy]

I personally as well as a lot of other afficionados of PICO tanks do
not belive there is such a thing as too small. I have a bunch of PICO
tanks from 2 pints to 2 gal in size and they all do just fine. SOme
have all the bells and whistles any other larger fully equipped tank
would have and some only get basic water changes once a week....Only
concern is temperature.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a 12 gal setup. IS it the
Eclipse Marine Setup? If so, its good to go like it is without any
additional filters....however if your wanting to put mushrooms and
some other corals that are suitable for the light it comes with then
you really need to change the bulb out....but for a fish only its
fine.

Eclipse makes a 1 tube and a two tube hood and the two tube is
definately a better choice........

I don;t know what petco price is on their 12 gal so called acrylic
tank, which really is not acrylic but a clear injection molded styrene
type plastic, but with the MArineland Eclipses my LFS sells they just
sub a 10 gal All Glass tank in its place....and offer it in kit form
with all the necessary accessories for $99.00 and offer the larger
Eclipse III setup complete with all things down to so many pounds of
LR and sand etc and salt etc etc for $149.00

Have you seen the Aqua Pod 12 gal and 24 gal.....They contain
everything needed but what you put inside in the line of fish and rock
and are a very good deal.

Another super setup that is a complete NANO setup is the Finnex M
tank....Lists for a complete setup for about $239.00 and is a complete
package ready to put your critters in. But there is nothing wrong with
the 12 GAl; setup if its the Marineland Eclipse system........It will
give you experience with sal****er without a ot of money laid out and
it can always be used as a quarantine tank if yu ever go
bigger.....Just be aware..sal****er fish keeping is much more
expensive and much much more addictive than freshwater is........



On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:40:51 GMT, James Cheung >
wrote:
>><>Hello folks,
>><>
>><>Happy new year first of all. My wife and I have decided to set up a new
>><>salt-water tank in our living room. Since I'm totally new with the marine
>><>tank, I have some questions and hopefully you pros can help me out.
>><>
>><>1. Petco is selling a 12 gallon tank complete with all the salt-water
>><>accessories that need to get me started (salt, meters, filter, net, testing
>><>equipments). However, I heard people saying that setting up a salt-water
>><>tank for less than 30 gallon is waste of time because small tanks tend to
>><>have less buffer than a bigger tank. Is this true? Or it¹s just a myth?
>><>2. If 12-gallon tank is too small, what¹d be the minimum size that I should
>><>consider? Granted I will monitor the water in a daily basis, but there will
>><>be times that I go on vacation and might need my tank unattended for a week
>><>or two.
>><>3. I understand that after I have setup the tank initially, I should leave
>><>the water and filtration system running for at least two weeks. What are
>><>some of the things that I should be aware of during this period, or before I
>><>start setting things up?
>><>4. Aside from the hanging type of filter it comes with the Petco package (if
>><>I go for the 12 gallon option), should I get additional filters to keep the
>><>water cleaned and stabilized at all time? If so, what type or brand that
>><>you¹d recommend.
>><>
>><>Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers.
>><>
>><>- James

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

[James Cheung]

Hi Roy,

Wow! Thanks so much for your insights. The one I saw at Petco is Eclipse
branded. I'm not too sure about the price but I don't think they would
charge an arm and a leg since they have many other competitors.

The main reason I was a bit concern about the size of the tank is, that I
live in 900 square feet town house, and I don't have much room to place this
precious salt-water tank on.

I heard of the Nano tank and I have asked a guy who works in the aquarium
shop about it. His response was, Nano tank is for someone who has extensive
knowledge of salt-water system and be able to monitor the water all the
time. This discourages me from getting one.

I don't plan on getting any anemones (not sure if this is what you call it)
or huge amount of fish in the tank anyway. 6 to 10 small, yet colorful fish
in there will be more than what I can dream of having. I never heard of Aqua
Pod at all, but will definitely do some research after writing up this
message.

Now, let's say I want to go with the Eclipse 12 gallon tank option. At the
beginning, should I get some live coral rocks to raise some good bacteria?
Or I should get a couple of damsel fish?

Again, thanks a lot for your time in responding. Cheers.

- James




On 1/2/06 4:21 PM, in article ,
"Roy" > wrote:

> I personally as well as a lot of other afficionados of PICO tanks do
> not belive there is such a thing as too small. I have a bunch of PICO
> tanks from 2 pints to 2 gal in size and they all do just fine. SOme
> have all the bells and whistles any other larger fully equipped tank
> would have and some only get basic water changes once a week....Only
> concern is temperature.
>
> There is certainly nothing wrong with a 12 gal setup. IS it the
> Eclipse Marine Setup? If so, its good to go like it is without any
> additional filters....however if your wanting to put mushrooms and
> some other corals that are suitable for the light it comes with then
> you really need to change the bulb out....but for a fish only its
> fine.
>
> Eclipse makes a 1 tube and a two tube hood and the two tube is
> definately a better choice........
>
> I don;t know what petco price is on their 12 gal so called acrylic
> tank, which really is not acrylic but a clear injection molded styrene
> type plastic, but with the MArineland Eclipses my LFS sells they just
> sub a 10 gal All Glass tank in its place....and offer it in kit form
> with all the necessary accessories for $99.00 and offer the larger
> Eclipse III setup complete with all things down to so many pounds of
> LR and sand etc and salt etc etc for $149.00
>
> Have you seen the Aqua Pod 12 gal and 24 gal.....They contain
> everything needed but what you put inside in the line of fish and rock
> and are a very good deal.
>
> Another super setup that is a complete NANO setup is the Finnex M
> tank....Lists for a complete setup for about $239.00 and is a complete
> package ready to put your critters in. But there is nothing wrong with
> the 12 GAl; setup if its the Marineland Eclipse system........It will
> give you experience with sal****er without a ot of money laid out and
> it can always be used as a quarantine tank if yu ever go
> bigger.....Just be aware..sal****er fish keeping is much more
> expensive and much much more addictive than freshwater is........
>
>
>
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:40:51 GMT, James Cheung >
> wrote:
>>> <>Hello folks,
>>> <>
>>> <>Happy new year first of all. My wife and I have decided to set up a new
>>> <>salt-water tank in our living room. Since I'm totally new with the marine
>>> <>tank, I have some questions and hopefully you pros can help me out.
>>> <>
>>> <>1. Petco is selling a 12 gallon tank complete with all the salt-water
>>> <>accessories that need to get me started (salt, meters, filter, net,
>>> testing
>>> <>equipments). However, I heard people saying that setting up a salt-water
>>> <>tank for less than 30 gallon is waste of time because small tanks tend to
>>> <>have less buffer than a bigger tank. Is this true? Or it¹s just a myth?
>>> <>2. If 12-gallon tank is too small, what¹d be the minimum size that I
>>> should
>>> <>consider? Granted I will monitor the water in a daily basis, but there
>>> will
>>> <>be times that I go on vacation and might need my tank unattended for a
>>> week
>>> <>or two.
>>> <>3. I understand that after I have setup the tank initially, I should leave
>>> <>the water and filtration system running for at least two weeks. What are
>>> <>some of the things that I should be aware of during this period, or before
>>> I
>>> <>start setting things up?
>>> <>4. Aside from the hanging type of filter it comes with the Petco package
>>> (if
>>> <>I go for the 12 gallon option), should I get additional filters to keep
>>> the
>>> <>water cleaned and stabilized at all time? If so, what type or brand that
>>> <>you¹d recommend.
>>> <>
>>> <>Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers.
>>> <>
>>> <>- James

[James Cheung]

Hi Sam,

First of all, thanks for the feedback and they're quite useful. I'm not sure
if it's a true statement that, swapping water too frequently (more twice a
month) is bad for the tank since by doing so, will also destroy the balanced
water within. Just wondering.

- James


On 1/2/06 2:45 PM, in article
, "Samwyse"
> wrote:

> At a New Year's party, I ran into the guy who "lent" me one of his big
> sal****er tanks when he got evicted from his house. Looks like the tank
> is now officially mine for as long was I want to keep it, because he's
> moving into a studio apartment and will only have room for a couple of
> nano-tanks. So...
>
> James Cheung wrote:
>> 1. Petco is selling a 12 gallon tank complete with all the salt-water
>> accessories that need to get me started (salt, meters, filter,
>> net, testing equipments). However, I heard people saying that
>> setting up a salt-water tank for less than 30 gallon is waste of
>> time because small tanks tend to have less buffer than a bigger
>> tank. Is this true? Or it¹s just a myth?
>
> Obviously, my acquantence believes he can keep a couple going. Of
> course, he previously owned at least a dozen 55 gallon tanks, so I
> presume that he knows what he's doing. He did say that he'll be
> changing the water weekly instead of every month or two, and that he's
> trying to figure out how to hook up an RO filter in the apartment to
> provide all the distilled water he'll be needing.
>
> You'll also be needed four to eight times as much salt if you're
> swapping water that often. You might want to run a cost comparison over
> a year or two instead of just looking at the initial costs. For
> example, swapping out 1/3rd of the water every week means you'll need
> about 200 gallons/year. I'd estimate $50 if you buy salt in quantity
> on-line, and $150 for distilled water bought 1 gallon at a time from the
> grocery store.
>
>> 2. If 12-gallon tank is too small, what¹d be the minimum size that I
>> should consider? Granted I will monitor the water in a daily
>> basis, but there will be times that I go on vacation and might
>> need my tank unattended for a week or two.
>
> As long as you swap your water immediately before leaving and upon your
> return, you should be OK. Obviously, one week away would be better for
> your tank than two.

[Roy]

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:01:15 GMT, James Cheung >
wrote:
>><>Hi Roy,
>><>
>><>Wow! Thanks so much for your insights. The one I saw at Petco is Eclipse
>><>branded. I'm not too sure about the price but I don't think they would
>><>charge an arm and a leg since they have many other competitors.

Around this part of the country Petco is the highest priced place to
buy any aquariums or accessories.....Their fish are cheap though.
>><>
>><>The main reason I was a bit concern about the size of the tank is, that I
>><>live in 900 square feet town house, and I don't have much room to place this
>><>precious salt-water tank on.
>><>
>><>I heard of the Nano tank and I have asked a guy who works in the aquarium
>><>shop about it. His response was, Nano tank is for someone who has extensive
>><>knowledge of salt-water system and be able to monitor the water all the
>><>time. This discourages me from getting one.

I would seriously steer away from the JBJ brand of NANO cube. They
have had nothing but problems with glass cracking. The NANO-cube forum
is full of disgusted NANO cube owners that have lost lots of money in
their investment, and even though JBJ may have replaced the cubes, the
replacements have been no better.

>><>
>><>I don't plan on getting any anemones (not sure if this is what you call it)
>><>or huge amount of fish in the tank anyway. 6 to 10 small, yet colorful fish
>><>in there will be more than what I can dream of having. I never heard of Aqua
>><>Pod at all, but will definitely do some research after writing up this
>><>message.
Aqua Pod is made by Current, USA. A major player in the aquarium and
accessories producers. They basically came out with a clone of the JBJ
NANO cube in response to the market for such a sized tank, and the
problems JBJ had, they decided to give it a try......Its a bit early
in the game to give their cube a fair assumption as to quality etc,
but from what I read and hear, its much more favorable than the NANO
by JBJ is......only time will tell.
>><>
>><>Now, let's say I want to go with the Eclipse 12 gallon tank option. At the
>><>beginning, should I get some live coral rocks to raise some good bacteria?
>><>Or I should get a couple of damsel fish?
>><>
If your intending to make a reef with live rock used primarily as your
main filtration stock it with good quality live rock at the rate of
1.5# per gall size......along with a sand bed of a depth no more than
3/4 to 1" deep......Give it time to cycle, which could be as short as
a week or less or a month or two, depends entirely on condition and
quality of your liverock and sand. My LFS sells top quality and its
possible to start adding fish within 3 to 5 days as all his sand and
rock is fully cured, before he sells it...

Damsels will get big.......The big reason folks recomend them is to
"test" their water parameters and if they do loose a fish they are not
out all that much. Petco sells all kinds of Damsels for
$3.50........but I will not add one to a small tank.......The way I
look at it is if my water checks good, and things are how they are
suposed to be, there is no harm in putting in a $2.00 fish or a $50
fish, it should live if I do my part, so I don;t go with the concept
of using a cheap fish which is oging to outgrow that tank in short
order to test the waters or my abiity.

Neon Goby, Small clowns, Firefish, cleaner shrimp etc are all good
candidates for a small tank. Your live rock and sand once cycled will
provide the necessry beneficial bacteria. Then add one fish at a time.
Allow a week or so between each addition of fish for bio load to
safely keep up and acclimate to added inhabitants. Corals and inverts
can basically be added once the tank is cycled. If you have good live
rock adding a fish to get thing started is not needed, but if usuing
poorer quality rock you can always add a piece of shrimp to get
ammonia etc started to do its thing, not a live fish. I'm sure there
will be different views but thats what I always do and what I have
been shown to do and its worked just fine.

Now if you r just interested in fish and no corals etc, things can get
a lot easier and cheaper, and you can just have a bare bottom tank add
sal****er and fish the same day.......but its the natural look with
sand and rock and corals and all the other critters like a shimp and
snails and hermits that make a tank look great.

If its at all possioble find your Live rock and sand locally so you
can see what your getting. Live rock and live sand is basically the
heart and soul of a tank.

>><>Again, thanks a lot for your time in responding. Cheers.
>><>
>><>- James
>><>
>><>
>><>
>><>
>><>On 1/2/06 4:21 PM, in article ,
>><>"Roy" > wrote:
>><>
>><>> I personally as well as a lot of other afficionados of PICO tanks do
>><>> not belive there is such a thing as too small. I have a bunch of PICO
>><>> tanks from 2 pints to 2 gal in size and they all do just fine. SOme
>><>> have all the bells and whistles any other larger fully equipped tank
>><>> would have and some only get basic water changes once a week....Only
>><>> concern is temperature.
>><>>
>><>> There is certainly nothing wrong with a 12 gal setup. IS it the
>><>> Eclipse Marine Setup? If so, its good to go like it is without any
>><>> additional filters....however if your wanting to put mushrooms and
>><>> some other corals that are suitable for the light it comes with then
>><>> you really need to change the bulb out....but for a fish only its
>><>> fine.
>><>>
>><>> Eclipse makes a 1 tube and a two tube hood and the two tube is
>><>> definately a better choice........
>><>>
>><>> I don;t know what petco price is on their 12 gal so called acrylic
>><>> tank, which really is not acrylic but a clear injection molded styrene
>><>> type plastic, but with the MArineland Eclipses my LFS sells they just
>><>> sub a 10 gal All Glass tank in its place....and offer it in kit form
>><>> with all the necessary accessories for $99.00 and offer the larger
>><>> Eclipse III setup complete with all things down to so many pounds of
>><>> LR and sand etc and salt etc etc for $149.00
>><>>
>><>> Have you seen the Aqua Pod 12 gal and 24 gal.....They contain
>><>> everything needed but what you put inside in the line of fish and rock
>><>> and are a very good deal.
>><>>
>><>> Another super setup that is a complete NANO setup is the Finnex M
>><>> tank....Lists for a complete setup for about $239.00 and is a complete
>><>> package ready to put your critters in. But there is nothing wrong with
>><>> the 12 GAl; setup if its the Marineland Eclipse system........It will
>><>> give you experience with sal****er without a ot of money laid out and
>><>> it can always be used as a quarantine tank if yu ever go
>><>> bigger.....Just be aware..sal****er fish keeping is much more
>><>> expensive and much much more addictive than freshwater is........
>><>>
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:40:51 GMT, James Cheung >
>><>> wrote:
>><>>>> <>Hello folks,
>><>>>> <>
>><>>>> <>Happy new year first of all. My wife and I have decided to set up a new
>><>>>> <>salt-water tank in our living room. Since I'm totally new with the marine
>><>>>> <>tank, I have some questions and hopefully you pros can help me out.
>><>>>> <>
>><>>>> <>1. Petco is selling a 12 gallon tank complete with all the salt-water
>><>>>> <>accessories that need to get me started (salt, meters, filter, net,
>><>>>> testing
>><>>>> <>equipments). However, I heard people saying that setting up a salt-water
>><>>>> <>tank for less than 30 gallon is waste of time because small tanks tend to
>><>>>> <>have less buffer than a bigger tank. Is this true? Or it¹s just a myth?
>><>>>> <>2. If 12-gallon tank is too small, what¹d be the minimum size that I
>><>>>> should
>><>>>> <>consider? Granted I will monitor the water in a daily basis, but there
>><>>>> will
>><>>>> <>be times that I go on vacation and might need my tank unattended for a
>><>>>> week
>><>>>> <>or two.
>><>>>> <>3. I understand that after I have setup the tank initially, I should leave
>><>>>> <>the water and filtration system running for at least two weeks. What are
>><>>>> <>some of the things that I should be aware of during this period, or before
>><>>>> I
>><>>>> <>start setting things up?
>><>>>> <>4. Aside from the hanging type of filter it comes with the Petco package
>><>>>> (if
>><>>>> <>I go for the 12 gallon option), should I get additional filters to keep
>><>>>> the
>><>>>> <>water cleaned and stabilized at all time? If so, what type or brand that
>><>>>> <>you¹d recommend.
>><>>>> <>
>><>>>> <>Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers.
>><>>>> <>
>><>>>> <>- James

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Roy]

Water changes never hurt a thing.......and twice a month is not
uncommon time frame. A tank will get surface film and other buiilt up
junk, and only water changes remove it. Water changes also rejuvinates
trace minerals used by the inhabitants. and reduces or dilutes any
buildup of undesireable things a filter and live rock does not remove.
As long a SG and temp are the same the amount of water changed will
not have any dire effects and only promote a healthier tank overall.
I do weekly water changes on some of my smaller pico tanks and on my
tiny tiny micro pico without any form of filtration other than a piece
of LR and LS every other day or two it gets a 10% water change.

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:05:50 GMT, James Cheung >
wrote:
>><>Hi Sam,
>><>
>><>First of all, thanks for the feedback and they're quite useful. I'm not sure
>><>if it's a true statement that, swapping water too frequently (more twice a
>><>month) is bad for the tank since by doing so, will also destroy the balanced
>><>water within. Just wondering.
>><>
>><>- James
>><>
>><>
>><>On 1/2/06 2:45 PM, in article
, "Samwyse"
> wrote:
>><>
>><>> At a New Year's party, I ran into the guy who "lent" me one of his big
>><>> sal****er tanks when he got evicted from his house. Looks like the tank
>><>> is now officially mine for as long was I want to keep it, because he's
>><>> moving into a studio apartment and will only have room for a couple of
>><>> nano-tanks. So...
>><>>
>><>> James Cheung wrote:
>><>>> 1. Petco is selling a 12 gallon tank complete with all the salt-water
>><>>> accessories that need to get me started (salt, meters, filter,
>><>>> net, testing equipments). However, I heard people saying that
>><>>> setting up a salt-water tank for less than 30 gallon is waste of
>><>>> time because small tanks tend to have less buffer than a bigger
>><>>> tank. Is this true? Or it¹s just a myth?
>><>>
>><>> Obviously, my acquantence believes he can keep a couple going. Of
>><>> course, he previously owned at least a dozen 55 gallon tanks, so I
>><>> presume that he knows what he's doing. He did say that he'll be
>><>> changing the water weekly instead of every month or two, and that he's
>><>> trying to figure out how to hook up an RO filter in the apartment to
>><>> provide all the distilled water he'll be needing.
>><>>
>><>> You'll also be needed four to eight times as much salt if you're
>><>> swapping water that often. You might want to run a cost comparison over
>><>> a year or two instead of just looking at the initial costs. For
>><>> example, swapping out 1/3rd of the water every week means you'll need
>><>> about 200 gallons/year. I'd estimate $50 if you buy salt in quantity
>><>> on-line, and $150 for distilled water bought 1 gallon at a time from the
>><>> grocery store.
>><>>
>><>>> 2. If 12-gallon tank is too small, what¹d be the minimum size that I
>><>>> should consider? Granted I will monitor the water in a daily
>><>>> basis, but there will be times that I go on vacation and might
>><>>> need my tank unattended for a week or two.
>><>>
>><>> As long as you swap your water immediately before leaving and upon your
>><>> return, you should be OK. Obviously, one week away would be better for
>><>> your tank than two.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

[unclenorm]

Hi James,
I don't want to get into the tank size question, but I
feel i must say that a twelve gall. tank is only big enough for two
small fish three would be bordering on overcrowding, the rule of thumb
is 1" of fish for every 5 galls. of water. I will add that a small tank
can be wiped out in a matter of hours, probably before you even know
you have a problem, so for a newby big is much easier to manage and
correct problems.
regards,
unclenorm.