I need immediate recommendations!

[Daniel Morrow]

My silver dollar/fancy guppy tank has experienced a nitrite spike (I will
test for ammonia too in a few minutes but it won't change much of what I
have to do to correct the water quality issue) after having been cloudy for
weeks. The cloudiness is a bad omen now in my opinion - please learn from my
mistake to not do much about it, especially if you have already established
tanks. The tank had 5 fancy guppy bodies (corpses) in it a few hours ago and
the other fish were either hiding or gasping for air at the surface of the
water. The nitrite was at .8 and I did a 50% water change immediately and
now the nitrite seems to be right below .3 ppm{mg/l}so my fish in that tank
aren't out of the woods yet. I did a google in the archives for suggestions
and will not feed for 2 days and will keep the lights off during that time
(both suggestions coming from the archive). I will do 50% water changes
every day until this problem has been resolved. Should I change more water?
50% seems to be the daily maximum recommended unless someone is already
changing an extra large amount of water. I am a normal here for all of your
newbies information, just so you know. Any recommendations? I suspect the
root cause was cheap food, and/or pond snails clogging my biowheels (I have
since corrected that (but might be too late) by lowering that tank's water
level to eliminate it and raising the biowheels in my other snail tank) so
maybe the tank is recycling. I did use fornmalin 3 for a few days after a
corpse or two showed up 1 or 2 weeks ago as if the salt I was adding was
having less and less positive effect on the fish. I changed 25% of the water
before each dose of formalin 3. I stopped adding salt when I started the
formalin 3 dosing. Other than that I can't think of any other correlations
to why I am having difficulty with that tank. My other 2 tanks are doing
great, even my bedroom fancy guppy tank's amazon sword is growing great now
that the aquarium plant food is kicking in after I started applying it a
long time ago. The silver dollar tank is well planted (hornwort and java
term) as the hornwort covers the first 5 or 6 inches of the submersed
surface for the entire 2 dimensions of that tank. Any recommendations
appreciated, I have plenty of time to do daily water changes as my life is
NOT in the fast lane and I want to beat this problem. Thanks all! By the
way - after the 50 % water change the fish came out of hiding and are mostly
themselves now and their breathing isn't as hurried. I normally change about
20 % of this tank's water once every 2 weeks.

[Charles]

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 19:26:05 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>My silver dollar/fancy guppy tank has experienced a nitrite spike (I will
>test for ammonia too in a few minutes but it won't change much of what I
>have to do to correct the water quality issue) after having been cloudy for
>weeks. The cloudiness is a bad omen now in my opinion - please learn from my
>mistake to not do much about it, especially if you have already established
>tanks. The tank had 5 fancy guppy bodies (corpses) in it a few hours ago and
>the other fish were either hiding or gasping for air at the surface of the
>water. The nitrite was at .8 and I did a 50% water change immediately and
>now the nitrite seems to be right below .3 ppm{mg/l}so my fish in that tank
>aren't out of the woods yet. I did a google in the archives for suggestions
>and will not feed for 2 days and will keep the lights off during that time
>(both suggestions coming from the archive). I will do 50% water changes
>every day until this problem has been resolved. Should I change more water?
>50% seems to be the daily maximum recommended unless someone is already
>changing an extra large amount of water. I am a normal here for all of your
>newbies information, just so you know. Any recommendations? I suspect the
>root cause was cheap food, and/or pond snails clogging my biowheels (I have
>since corrected that (but might be too late) by lowering that tank's water
>level to eliminate it and raising the biowheels in my other snail tank) so
>maybe the tank is recycling. I did use fornmalin 3 for a few days after a
>corpse or two showed up 1 or 2 weeks ago as if the salt I was adding was
>having less and less positive effect on the fish. I changed 25% of the water
>before each dose of formalin 3. I stopped adding salt when I started the
>formalin 3 dosing. Other than that I can't think of any other correlations
>to why I am having difficulty with that tank. My other 2 tanks are doing
>great, even my bedroom fancy guppy tank's amazon sword is growing great now
>that the aquarium plant food is kicking in after I started applying it a
>long time ago. The silver dollar tank is well planted (hornwort and java
>term) as the hornwort covers the first 5 or 6 inches of the submersed
>surface for the entire 2 dimensions of that tank. Any recommendations
>appreciated, I have plenty of time to do daily water changes as my life is
>NOT in the fast lane and I want to beat this problem. Thanks all! By the
>way - after the 50 % water change the fish came out of hiding and are mostly
>themselves now and their breathing isn't as hurried. I normally change about
>20 % of this tank's water once every 2 weeks.
>

I'd do another water change, I just did two 60% changes on one of my
tanks today. Salt will reduce the toxisity of the nitrite until you
get things settled down again.

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Charles wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 19:26:05 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>> My silver dollar/fancy guppy tank has experienced a nitrite spike (I
>> will test for ammonia too in a few minutes but it won't change much
>> of what I have to do to correct the water quality issue) after
>> having been cloudy for weeks. The cloudiness is a bad omen now in my
>> opinion - please learn from my mistake to not do much about it,
>> especially if you have already established tanks. The tank had 5
>> fancy guppy bodies (corpses) in it a few hours ago and the other
>> fish were either hiding or gasping for air at the surface of the
>> water. The nitrite was at .8 and I did a 50% water change
>> immediately and now the nitrite seems to be right below .3
>> ppm{mg/l}so my fish in that tank aren't out of the woods yet. I did
>> a google in the archives for suggestions and will not feed for 2
>> days and will keep the lights off during that time (both suggestions
>> coming from the archive). I will do 50% water changes every day
>> until this problem has been resolved. Should I change more water?
>> 50% seems to be the daily maximum recommended unless someone is
>> already changing an extra large amount of water. I am a normal here
>> for all of your newbies information, just so you know. Any
>> recommendations? I suspect the root cause was cheap food, and/or
>> pond snails clogging my biowheels (I have since corrected that (but
>> might be too late) by lowering that tank's water level to eliminate
>> it and raising the biowheels in my other snail tank) so maybe the
>> tank is recycling. I did use fornmalin 3 for a few days after a
>> corpse or two showed up 1 or 2 weeks ago as if the salt I was adding
>> was having less and less positive effect on the fish. I changed 25%
>> of the water before each dose of formalin 3. I stopped adding salt
>> when I started the formalin 3 dosing. Other than that I can't think
>> of any other correlations to why I am having difficulty with that
>> tank. My other 2 tanks are doing great, even my bedroom fancy guppy
>> tank's amazon sword is growing great now that the aquarium plant
>> food is kicking in after I started applying it a long time ago. The
>> silver dollar tank is well planted (hornwort and java term) as the
>> hornwort covers the first 5 or 6 inches of the submersed surface for
>> the entire 2 dimensions of that tank. Any recommendations
>> appreciated, I have plenty of time to do daily water changes as my
>> life is NOT in the fast lane and I want to beat this problem. Thanks
>> all! By the way - after the 50 % water change the fish came out of
>> hiding and are mostly themselves now and their breathing isn't as
>> hurried. I normally change about 20 % of this tank's water once
>> every 2 weeks.
>>
>
> I'd do another water change, I just did two 60% changes on one of my
> tanks today. Salt will reduce the toxisity of the nitrite until you
> get things settled down again.

Thanks Charles, the subject is still open everyone!

[Elaine T]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> My silver dollar/fancy guppy tank has experienced a nitrite spike (I will
> test for ammonia too in a few minutes but it won't change much of what I
> have to do to correct the water quality issue) after having been cloudy for
> weeks. The cloudiness is a bad omen now in my opinion - please learn from my
> mistake to not do much about it, especially if you have already established
> tanks. The tank had 5 fancy guppy bodies (corpses) in it a few hours ago and
> the other fish were either hiding or gasping for air at the surface of the
> water. The nitrite was at .8 and I did a 50% water change immediately and
> now the nitrite seems to be right below .3 ppm{mg/l}so my fish in that tank
> aren't out of the woods yet. I did a google in the archives for suggestions
> and will not feed for 2 days and will keep the lights off during that time
> (both suggestions coming from the archive). I will do 50% water changes
> every day until this problem has been resolved. Should I change more water?
> 50% seems to be the daily maximum recommended unless someone is already
> changing an extra large amount of water. I am a normal here for all of your
> newbies information, just so you know. Any recommendations? I suspect the
> root cause was cheap food, and/or pond snails clogging my biowheels (I have
> since corrected that (but might be too late) by lowering that tank's water
> level to eliminate it and raising the biowheels in my other snail tank) so
> maybe the tank is recycling. I did use fornmalin 3 for a few days after a
> corpse or two showed up 1 or 2 weeks ago as if the salt I was adding was
> having less and less positive effect on the fish. I changed 25% of the water
> before each dose of formalin 3. I stopped adding salt when I started the
> formalin 3 dosing. Other than that I can't think of any other correlations
> to why I am having difficulty with that tank. My other 2 tanks are doing
> great, even my bedroom fancy guppy tank's amazon sword is growing great now
> that the aquarium plant food is kicking in after I started applying it a
> long time ago. The silver dollar tank is well planted (hornwort and java
> term) as the hornwort covers the first 5 or 6 inches of the submersed
> surface for the entire 2 dimensions of that tank. Any recommendations
> appreciated, I have plenty of time to do daily water changes as my life is
> NOT in the fast lane and I want to beat this problem. Thanks all! By the
> way - after the 50 % water change the fish came out of hiding and are mostly
> themselves now and their breathing isn't as hurried. I normally change about
> 20 % of this tank's water once every 2 weeks.
>

I doubt it was the formalin. Clogged biowheels sounds more likely.
You've got more than one tank, right? Seed your filter again with
bacteria from another tank. If you squeeze out a filter sponge or rinse
out a Whisper cartridge in the tank you should get plenty of helpful
bacteria.

I agree with Charles that you can do more than one water change in a
day. His suggestion of salt is also a good one. 1 tsp/gallon is plenty
to lower nitrite toxicity.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Elaine T wrote:
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>> My silver dollar/fancy guppy tank has experienced a nitrite spike (I
>> will test for ammonia too in a few minutes but it won't change much
>> of what I have to do to correct the water quality issue) after
>> having been cloudy for weeks. The cloudiness is a bad omen now in my
>> opinion - please learn from my mistake to not do much about it,
>> especially if you have already established tanks. The tank had 5
>> fancy guppy bodies (corpses) in it a few hours ago and the other
>> fish were either hiding or gasping for air at the surface of the
>> water. The nitrite was at .8 and I did a 50% water change
>> immediately and now the nitrite seems to be right below .3
>> ppm{mg/l}so my fish in that tank aren't out of the woods yet. I did
>> a google in the archives for suggestions and will not feed for 2
>> days and will keep the lights off during that time (both suggestions
>> coming from the archive). I will do 50% water changes every day
>> until this problem has been resolved. Should I change more water?
>> 50% seems to be the daily maximum recommended unless someone is
>> already changing an extra large amount of water. I am a normal here
>> for all of your newbies information, just so you know. Any
>> recommendations? I suspect the root cause was cheap food, and/or
>> pond snails clogging my biowheels (I have since corrected that (but
>> might be too late) by lowering that tank's water level to eliminate
>> it and raising the biowheels in my other snail tank) so maybe the
>> tank is recycling. I did use fornmalin 3 for a few days after a
>> corpse or two showed up 1 or 2 weeks ago as if the salt I was adding
>> was having less and less positive effect on the fish. I changed 25%
>> of the water before each dose of formalin 3. I stopped adding salt
>> when I started the formalin 3 dosing. Other than that I can't think
>> of any other correlations to why I am having difficulty with that
>> tank. My other 2 tanks are doing great, even my bedroom fancy guppy
>> tank's amazon sword is growing great now that the aquarium plant
>> food is kicking in after I started applying it a long time ago. The
>> silver dollar tank is well planted (hornwort and java term) as the
>> hornwort covers the first 5 or 6 inches of the submersed surface for
>> the entire 2 dimensions of that tank. Any recommendations
>> appreciated, I have plenty of time to do daily water changes as my
>> life is NOT in the fast lane and I want to beat this problem. Thanks
>> all! By the way - after the 50 % water change the fish came out of
>> hiding and are mostly themselves now and their breathing isn't as
>> hurried. I normally change about 20 % of this tank's water once
>> every 2 weeks.
>>
>
> I doubt it was the formalin. Clogged biowheels sounds more likely.
> You've got more than one tank, right? Seed your filter again with
> bacteria from another tank. If you squeeze out a filter sponge or
> rinse out a Whisper cartridge in the tank you should get plenty of
> helpful bacteria.
>
> I agree with Charles that you can do more than one water change in a
> day. His suggestion of salt is also a good one. 1 tsp/gallon is
> plenty to lower nitrite toxicity.

Thanks elaine - I agree it must be from the biowheel getting clogged. I have
an easy way to reseed - exchange one (every biowheel pro 60 comes with 2
wheels) wheel for another between 2 tanks. Thanks - and there is no ammonia
in the tank - none was measurable an hour ago. Subject still open everyone,
Later all!

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> I agree with Charles that you can do more than one water
> change in a day.

Me, too.

> 1
> tsp/gallon is plenty to lower nitrite toxicity.

How does salt reduce the nitrite toxicity?
Salt addition might irritate the remaining bacteria, too.
--
cu
Marco

[Charles]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:20:38 +0100, Marco Schwarz
> wrote:

>Hi..
>
>> I agree with Charles that you can do more than one water
>> change in a day.
>
>Me, too.
>
>> 1
>> tsp/gallon is plenty to lower nitrite toxicity.
>
>How does salt reduce the nitrite toxicity?
>Salt addition might irritate the remaining bacteria, too.


The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for absorption by the
fish's gills. The level of salt used won't affect the bacteria in
question. too much would, but then it would kill the fish as well, so
we don't use that much.

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
> absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
> won't affect the bacteria in question.
> too much would, but then it would kill the fish
> as well, so we don't use that much.

Thanks.

--
cu
Marco

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Marco Schwarz wrote:
> Hi..
>
>> The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>> absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>> won't affect the bacteria in question.
>> too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>> as well, so we don't use that much.
>
> Thanks.

Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the water is
clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the start of the
problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep watching this tank for
the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits are not very accurate but will
supplement my seachem nitrite/nitrate test kit for the time being) and will
change any water if/when the nitrite goes up significantly. I plan on doing
a 50% water change every week in addition to my other maintenance I normally
do to try to keep the water quality good or good enough to prevent any
further nitrite spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding since this happened
has helped too I am almost certain. I will restart feeding tomorrow evening
and will feed more sparingly. There were a few corpses today but I think
those were the ones I missed in yesterdays look because of lack of
vision/light so I just didn't see them before. The vast majority seem fine
if a little without an appetite although I haven't really teased them any
anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and hope/expect
everything will be back to normal soon, despite the significant but small
loss of fancy guppy life, which should return to normal after more breeding
and growing. Good luck all and later!

[Daniel Morrow]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> Bottom posted.
> Marco Schwarz wrote:
>> Hi..
>>
>>> The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>>> absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>>> won't affect the bacteria in question.
>>> too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>>> as well, so we don't use that much.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the
> water is clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the
> start of the problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep
> watching this tank for the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits are
> not very accurate but will supplement my seachem nitrite/nitrate test
> kit for the time being) and will change any water if/when the nitrite
> goes up significantly. I plan on doing a 50% water change every week
> in addition to my other maintenance I normally do to try to keep the
> water quality good or good enough to prevent any further nitrite
> spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding since this happened has helped
> too I am almost certain. I will restart feeding tomorrow evening and
> will feed more sparingly. There were a few corpses today but I think
> those were the ones I missed in yesterdays look because of lack of
> vision/light so I just didn't see them before. The vast majority seem
> fine if a little without an appetite although I haven't really teased
> them any anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and
> hope/expect everything will be back to normal soon, despite the
> significant but small loss of fancy guppy life, which should return
> to normal after more breeding and growing. Good luck all and later!

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Daniel Morrow wrote:
> Bottom posted.
> Marco Schwarz wrote:
>> Hi..
>>
>>> The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>>> absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>>> won't affect the bacteria in question.
>>> too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>>> as well, so we don't use that much.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the
> water is clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the
> start of the problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep
> watching this tank for the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits are
> not very accurate but will supplement my seachem nitrite/nitrate test
> kit for the time being) and will change any water if/when the nitrite
> goes up significantly. I plan on doing a 50% water change every week
> in addition to my other maintenance I normally do to try to keep the
> water quality good or good enough to prevent any further nitrite
> spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding since this happened has helped
> too I am almost certain. I will restart feeding tomorrow evening and
> will feed more sparingly. There were a few corpses today but I think
> those were the ones I missed in yesterdays look because of lack of
> vision/light so I just didn't see them before. The vast majority seem
> fine if a little without an appetite although I haven't really teased
> them any anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and
> hope/expect everything will be back to normal soon, despite the
> significant but small loss of fancy guppy life, which should return
> to normal after more breeding and growing. Good luck all and later!

Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and I felt
safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the nitrite levels down
but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in toxic amounts so now I have to
do massive water changes every day (which I can handle for now) but my
problem is that I am afraid of losing the silver dollars (some fancy guppy
corpses showed up this morning, it's as if the tap water is a good catalyst
for nitrite and now ammonia for some reason). I added my backup fluval 404
msf filter to the tank hoping it will help enough and I cleaned the
remaining filter tubes of the already stationed filters. The latest ammonia
reading is .25, maybe a little higher, nitrites were terrible before the
latest water change. It is a good thing I have hoses etc. for changing water
as if I had only buckets even I would be doomed. I feel real bad for the
fish as the only thing I can do about the nitrites is change water and I
could only hop onto the bus tomorrow and get some amquel for the ammonia.
Any recommendations? I already posted my other specs for my tanks which
except for the previous has remained unchanged practically speaking. I will
keep changing water but anyone have any idea when this imbalance will be
over? Thanks, and let's hope I have good luck, later! P.s. That tank may
have previously (compared to today) been underfiltered.

[Gill Passman]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> Bottom posted.
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>
>>Bottom posted.
>>Marco Schwarz wrote:
>>
>>>Hi..
>>>
>>>
>>>>The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>>>>absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>>>>won't affect the bacteria in question.
>>>>too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>>>>as well, so we don't use that much.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>
>>Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the
>>water is clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the
>>start of the problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep
>>watching this tank for the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits are
>>not very accurate but will supplement my seachem nitrite/nitrate test
>>kit for the time being) and will change any water if/when the nitrite
>>goes up significantly. I plan on doing a 50% water change every week
>>in addition to my other maintenance I normally do to try to keep the
>>water quality good or good enough to prevent any further nitrite
>>spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding since this happened has helped
>>too I am almost certain. I will restart feeding tomorrow evening and
>>will feed more sparingly. There were a few corpses today but I think
>>those were the ones I missed in yesterdays look because of lack of
>>vision/light so I just didn't see them before. The vast majority seem
>>fine if a little without an appetite although I haven't really teased
>>them any anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and
>>hope/expect everything will be back to normal soon, despite the
>>significant but small loss of fancy guppy life, which should return
>>to normal after more breeding and growing. Good luck all and later!
>
>
> Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and I felt
> safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the nitrite levels down
> but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in toxic amounts so now I have to
> do massive water changes every day (which I can handle for now) but my
> problem is that I am afraid of losing the silver dollars (some fancy guppy
> corpses showed up this morning, it's as if the tap water is a good catalyst
> for nitrite and now ammonia for some reason). I added my backup fluval 404
> msf filter to the tank hoping it will help enough and I cleaned the
> remaining filter tubes of the already stationed filters. The latest ammonia
> reading is .25, maybe a little higher, nitrites were terrible before the
> latest water change. It is a good thing I have hoses etc. for changing water
> as if I had only buckets even I would be doomed. I feel real bad for the
> fish as the only thing I can do about the nitrites is change water and I
> could only hop onto the bus tomorrow and get some amquel for the ammonia.
> Any recommendations? I already posted my other specs for my tanks which
> except for the previous has remained unchanged practically speaking. I will
> keep changing water but anyone have any idea when this imbalance will be
> over? Thanks, and let's hope I have good luck, later! P.s. That tank may
> have previously (compared to today) been underfiltered.
>
>
Hi Daniel,

I've just had a similar, but shorter term, issue with 0.1 nitrite
readings in one of my tanks - Clown Loaches stuffing themselves on
snails I think was the cause. I did a 20% change first day, then 10% for
the next two days. I added an additional filter and rinsed the existing
one. I also cut back on the feeding - 24 hour fast and then once daily
for the next three days. Nitrites are now zero again.

Hope this helps
Gill

[Elaine T]

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> Bottom posted.
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>
>>Bottom posted.
>>Marco Schwarz wrote:
>>
>>>Hi..
>>>
>>>
>>>>The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>>>>absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>>>>won't affect the bacteria in question.
>>>>too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>>>>as well, so we don't use that much.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>
>>Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the
>>water is clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the
>>start of the problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep
>>watching this tank for the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits are
>>not very accurate but will supplement my seachem nitrite/nitrate test
>>kit for the time being) and will change any water if/when the nitrite
>>goes up significantly. I plan on doing a 50% water change every week
>>in addition to my other maintenance I normally do to try to keep the
>>water quality good or good enough to prevent any further nitrite
>>spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding since this happened has helped
>>too I am almost certain. I will restart feeding tomorrow evening and
>>will feed more sparingly. There were a few corpses today but I think
>>those were the ones I missed in yesterdays look because of lack of
>>vision/light so I just didn't see them before. The vast majority seem
>>fine if a little without an appetite although I haven't really teased
>>them any anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and
>>hope/expect everything will be back to normal soon, despite the
>>significant but small loss of fancy guppy life, which should return
>>to normal after more breeding and growing. Good luck all and later!
>
>
> Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and I felt
> safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the nitrite levels down
> but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in toxic amounts so now I have to
> do massive water changes every day (which I can handle for now) but my
> problem is that I am afraid of losing the silver dollars (some fancy guppy
> corpses showed up this morning, it's as if the tap water is a good catalyst
> for nitrite and now ammonia for some reason). I added my backup fluval 404
> msf filter to the tank hoping it will help enough and I cleaned the
> remaining filter tubes of the already stationed filters. The latest ammonia
> reading is .25, maybe a little higher, nitrites were terrible before the
> latest water change. It is a good thing I have hoses etc. for changing water
> as if I had only buckets even I would be doomed. I feel real bad for the
> fish as the only thing I can do about the nitrites is change water and I
> could only hop onto the bus tomorrow and get some amquel for the ammonia.
> Any recommendations? I already posted my other specs for my tanks which
> except for the previous has remained unchanged practically speaking. I will
> keep changing water but anyone have any idea when this imbalance will be
> over? Thanks, and let's hope I have good luck, later! P.s. That tank may
> have previously (compared to today) been underfiltered.
>
Are you sure your tapwater has chlorine and not chloramine? Sometimes
municipalities switch over very quietly. A 90% water change with
chloramines and only thiosulphate dechlorinator will cause a huge
ammonia spike.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Gill Passman wrote:
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>> Bottom posted.
>> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>>
>>> Bottom posted.
>>> Marco Schwarz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>>>>> absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>>>>> won't affect the bacteria in question.
>>>>> too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>>>>> as well, so we don't use that much.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the
>>> water is clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the
>>> start of the problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep
>>> watching this tank for the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits
>>> are not very accurate but will supplement my seachem
>>> nitrite/nitrate test kit for the time being) and will change any
>>> water if/when the nitrite goes up significantly. I plan on doing a
>>> 50% water change every week in addition to my other maintenance I
>>> normally do to try to keep the water quality good or good enough to
>>> prevent any further nitrite spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding
>>> since this happened has helped too I am almost certain. I will
>>> restart feeding tomorrow evening and will feed more sparingly.
>>> There were a few corpses today but I think those were the ones I
>>> missed in yesterdays look because of lack of vision/light so I just
>>> didn't see them before. The vast majority seem fine if a little
>>> without an appetite although I haven't really teased them any
>>> anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and hope/expect
>>> everything will be back to normal soon, despite the significant but
>>> small loss of fancy guppy life, which should return to normal after
>>> more breeding and growing. Good luck all and later!
>>
>>
>> Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and
>> I felt safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the
>> nitrite levels down but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in
>> toxic amounts so now I have to do massive water changes every day
>> (which I can handle for now) but my problem is that I am afraid of
>> losing the silver dollars (some fancy guppy corpses showed up this
>> morning, it's as if the tap water is a good catalyst for nitrite and
>> now ammonia for some reason). I added my backup fluval 404 msf
>> filter to the tank hoping it will help enough and I cleaned the
>> remaining filter tubes of the already stationed filters. The latest
>> ammonia reading is .25, maybe a little higher, nitrites were
>> terrible before the latest water change. It is a good thing I have
>> hoses etc. for changing water as if I had only buckets even I would
>> be doomed. I feel real bad for the fish as the only thing I can do
>> about the nitrites is change water and I could only hop onto the bus
>> tomorrow and get some amquel for the ammonia. Any recommendations? I
>> already posted my other specs for my tanks which except for the
>> previous has remained unchanged practically speaking. I will keep
>> changing water but anyone have any idea when this imbalance will be
>> over? Thanks, and let's hope I have good luck, later! P.s. That tank
>> may have previously (compared to today) been underfiltered.
>>
>>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I've just had a similar, but shorter term, issue with 0.1 nitrite
> readings in one of my tanks - Clown Loaches stuffing themselves on
> snails I think was the cause. I did a 20% change first day, then 10%
> for the next two days. I added an additional filter and rinsed the
> existing one. I also cut back on the feeding - 24 hour fast and then
> once daily for the next three days. Nitrites are now zero again.
>
> Hope this helps
> Gill

Good to hear you fixed it, I hope mine will improve (In fact I am relatively
confident mine is going to be o.k. despite losing a few dispensable fancy
guppies. Last night I changed (in two separate sessions many hours apart)
about 50% of the water and after the last change of that I had near zero
(hardly registered) ammonia, although it might have gone up since then. I
will do more testing in a few minutes and change water until decent (last
night I changed so much water because I saw the silver dollars breathing
hard and I take it is was a bad sign so that's why I changed so much water
last night). Somewhat surprising is that the water looks better today,
relatively clear, and my inspection of the silver dollars reveals slow or
calm in other words breathing. You cheered me up gill and have shown me
there is light at the end of this tunnel, thanks!

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Elaine T wrote:
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>> Bottom posted.
>> Daniel Morrow wrote:
>>
>>> Bottom posted.
>>> Marco Schwarz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The chloride ion competes with the nitrite ion for
>>>>> absorption by the fish's gills. The level of salt used
>>>>> won't affect the bacteria in question.
>>>>> too much would, but then it would kill the fish
>>>>> as well, so we don't use that much.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone! My nitrites in that tank are down to .1 and the
>>> water is clear now. The 3 50% water changes I have done since the
>>> start of the problem seem to have helped tremendously. I will keep
>>> watching this tank for the time being (my tetra nitrite test kits
>>> are not very accurate but will supplement my seachem
>>> nitrite/nitrate test kit for the time being) and will change any
>>> water if/when the nitrite goes up significantly. I plan on doing a
>>> 50% water change every week in addition to my other maintenance I
>>> normally do to try to keep the water quality good or good enough to
>>> prevent any further nitrite spikes. Also - the lack of me feeding
>>> since this happened has helped too I am almost certain. I will
>>> restart feeding tomorrow evening and will feed more sparingly.
>>> There were a few corpses today but I think those were the ones I
>>> missed in yesterdays look because of lack of vision/light so I just
>>> didn't see them before. The vast majority seem fine if a little
>>> without an appetite although I haven't really teased them any
>>> anyways. I feel I have this situation under control and hope/expect
>>> everything will be back to normal soon, despite the significant but
>>> small loss of fancy guppy life, which should return to normal after
>>> more breeding and growing. Good luck all and later!
>>
>>
>> Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and
>> I felt safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the
>> nitrite levels down but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in
>> toxic amounts so now I have to do massive water changes every day
>> (which I can handle for now) but my problem is that I am afraid of
>> losing the silver dollars (some fancy guppy corpses showed up this
>> morning, it's as if the tap water is a good catalyst for nitrite and
>> now ammonia for some reason). I added my backup fluval 404 msf
>> filter to the tank hoping it will help enough and I cleaned the
>> remaining filter tubes of the already stationed filters. The latest
>> ammonia reading is .25, maybe a little higher, nitrites were
>> terrible before the latest water change. It is a good thing I have
>> hoses etc. for changing water as if I had only buckets even I would
>> be doomed. I feel real bad for the fish as the only thing I can do
>> about the nitrites is change water and I could only hop onto the bus
>> tomorrow and get some amquel for the ammonia. Any recommendations? I
>> already posted my other specs for my tanks which except for the
>> previous has remained unchanged practically speaking. I will keep
>> changing water but anyone have any idea when this imbalance will be
>> over? Thanks, and let's hope I have good luck, later! P.s. That tank
>> may have previously (compared to today) been underfiltered.
>>
> Are you sure your tapwater has chlorine and not chloramine? Sometimes
> municipalities switch over very quietly. A 90% water change with
> chloramines and only thiosulphate dechlorinator will cause a huge
> ammonia spike.

That is really an intelligent and poignant point elaine. Fortunately for my
fish though I use tetra aquasafe exclusively (as far as dechlorinators etc.
go) which is rated to handle chlorine, chloramines and their remnants
(ammonia I am pretty sure). Your point is especially helpful though because
I have learned from your message that municipal water supplies sometimes
switch to chloramines suddenly so I will look into getting the correct phone
number of our tap water utility supplier so I can check for chloramines in
the future. Thanks!

[Richard Sexton]

>Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and I felt
>safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the nitrite levels down
>but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in toxic amounts so now I have to
>do massive water changes every day (which I can handle for now) but my

The fish have been crapping in that gravel for how long? It's now a nice
slurry of crap and stone. You can change 100% of the water, would you
drink out of it an hour later?

Now, if the gravel were choked with plant roots, we wouldn't be having
this conversation. Giant (red marble if you want) or any fast growing
crypt will fill it with roots in a few months to a year.

For now I'd stick a python in the tank and start siphoning crap
out as you stir up the gravel. Turn the python on. Just keep
at it until the tank is as clean as it ws when you first set it
up. It may take you a while but you'll get there.

It'll be a lot beter after that. You'll be stirring so much stuff up
that even though you may have chnaged all the water 10X there is
still enough good bacteria around you won't have to cycles the tank
again.

Richard,
expert on revitalizing dead tanks ha ha


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.
Richard Sexton wrote:
>> Dang dudes and dudettes. I kept getting a reading of .1 nitrites and
>> I felt safe about doing a 90% water change hoping to keep the
>> nitrite levels down but it ended up causing ammonia to appear in
>> toxic amounts so now I have to do massive water changes every day
>> (which I can handle for now) but my
>
> The fish have been crapping in that gravel for how long? It's now a
> nice slurry of crap and stone

I gravel vac at least every 2 weeks and when I do there is very little
debris in the buckets the water goes into to be dumped outside 30 minutes
later, because I feed relatively little (there are a lot of fish in my
tanks).

.. You can change 100% of the water,
> would you drink out of it an hour later?

That is a difficult question for me to answer.


>
> Now, if the gravel were choked with plant roots, we wouldn't be having
> this conversation. Giant (red marble if you want) or any fast growing
> crypt will fill it with roots in a few months to a year.
>
> For now I'd stick a python

I only use my python for some drainage as it wastes water like cray enough
for me to buy 2 50 foot lengths of potable water hoses which should be safe
for the fish, and I attach the hose to a kitchen water facet via a quick
connecter. I use the potable water hoses for filling. Also - like I said I
use the python for SOME drainage as a lot of my draining is done with
buckets and a cheap gravel vac which doesn't waste water. Summary - the crap
gets siphoned out. Thanks!

in the tank and start siphoning crap
> out as you stir up the gravel. Turn the python on. Just keep
> at it until the tank is as clean as it ws when you first set it
> up. It may take you a while but you'll get there.
>
> It'll be a lot beter after that. You'll be stirring so much stuff up
> that even though you may have chnaged all the water 10X there is
> still enough good bacteria around you won't have to cycles the tank
> again.
>
> Richard,
> expert on revitalizing dead tanks ha ha

Update - yesterday the ammonia was practically zero (near zero) (will test
again today) and the nitrites were tolerable for the moment (approximately
1-2.1) but I would like the danged nitrites to completely go away or at
least be barely measurable. I feel a lot better about the problem since it
might be gone 100% soon. Good luck and later!