FAMA vs. PFK

[Bill Stock]

What's your favourite magazine?

I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
good; does such a thing exist?

[Charles]

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:43:53 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
wrote:

>What's your favourite magazine?
>
>I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
>really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
>photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
>NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
>read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
>more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
>my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
>good; does such a thing exist?
>
>


In the US there are two others that I know of, AFM (Aquarium fish
Magazine) and TFH, (Tropical fish Hobbyist). Both have more salt
water coverage than I like, but that's them.

PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.

FAMA recently went through some problems, I believe AFM owns them now.
I used to like them mostly for the ads, but now, with the internet,
everything is more available.

AFM and TFH are good, enough that I subscribe to both. TFH has
changed in the last few years, improved very much, in my opinion.
Both magazines have a plant feature regurlarly.

The Aquatic Gardeners Associaton puts out a publication, I got it for
a while. but it wasn't what I was looking for. they can be viewed at:

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/

[Koi-lo]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> What's your favourite magazine?
>
> I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
> really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
> photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
> NetMax is free :) .

And his posts are worth reading. :-)) I gave up on the fish magazines
about 8 years ago because they catered too much to the sal****er crowd.
Some of us aren't the least bit interested in sal****er fish or reef tanks.
After bypassing all the ads there wasn't much left to read. I get more info
here and from the net and it's all free as you say.

But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
> read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
> more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
> my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
> good; does such a thing exist?

Not that I ever saw...... if you find one please let us know.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Bill Stock wrote:
> What's your favourite magazine?
>
> I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
> really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
> photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
> NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
> read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
> more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
> my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
> good; does such a thing exist?
>
>
>
I like PFK....it has to be said though that this is the only one I can
find on the shelves these days and even then I have to go into town to
pick it up - subscription is on the to do list this year - I wonder why
they don't sell it in LFS's. They also have a free website - not sure of
the content but have just subscribed to that.

Like Koi-Lo I'm rather inclined to agree that there is quite a lot of
marine stuff...however, as the market for this sort of magazine,
certainly in the UK seems limited, I can understand why they combine both.

Although I will agree that the info/advice from these ngs is possibly of
more value by reading a magazine I can find stuff out that I might never
think of asking - ng and the internet obviously have the immediacy that
a magazine never will but IMO both have there place....

I can't comment on FAMA as I've not seen it on the shelves over here...

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Charles wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:43:53 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>What's your favourite magazine?
>>
>>I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
>>really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
>>photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
>>NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
>>read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
>>more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
>>my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
>>good; does such a thing exist?
>>
>>
>
>
>
> In the US there are two others that I know of, AFM (Aquarium fish
> Magazine) and TFH, (Tropical fish Hobbyist). Both have more salt
> water coverage than I like, but that's them.
>
> PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
> shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>
> FAMA recently went through some problems, I believe AFM owns them now.
> I used to like them mostly for the ads, but now, with the internet,
> everything is more available.
>
> AFM and TFH are good, enough that I subscribe to both. TFH has
> changed in the last few years, improved very much, in my opinion.
> Both magazines have a plant feature regurlarly.
>
> The Aquatic Gardeners Associaton puts out a publication, I got it for
> a while. but it wasn't what I was looking for. they can be viewed at:
>
> http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
>
>
You just made me realise how truly lucky we are in the UK :-)

<snip>
PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
<snip>

Maybe it is down to the tight regulations on sale of livestock - but the
places I frequent (mainly Maidenhead Aquatics) are of the same quality
as those shown in PFK....and I STILL complain - maybe I ought to
appreciate how lucky I am....

Gill

[Charles]

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:13:07 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Charles wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:43:53 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What's your favourite magazine?
>>>
>>>I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
>>>really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
>>>photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
>>>NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
>>>read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
>>>more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
>>>my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
>>>good; does such a thing exist?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the US there are two others that I know of, AFM (Aquarium fish
>> Magazine) and TFH, (Tropical fish Hobbyist). Both have more salt
>> water coverage than I like, but that's them.
>>
>> PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
>> shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>>
>> FAMA recently went through some problems, I believe AFM owns them now.
>> I used to like them mostly for the ads, but now, with the internet,
>> everything is more available.
>>
>> AFM and TFH are good, enough that I subscribe to both. TFH has
>> changed in the last few years, improved very much, in my opinion.
>> Both magazines have a plant feature regurlarly.
>>
>> The Aquatic Gardeners Associaton puts out a publication, I got it for
>> a while. but it wasn't what I was looking for. they can be viewed at:
>>
>> http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
>>
>>
>You just made me realise how truly lucky we are in the UK :-)
>
><snip>
>PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
>shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
><snip>
>
>Maybe it is down to the tight regulations on sale of livestock - but the
>places I frequent (mainly Maidenhead Aquatics) are of the same quality
>as those shown in PFK....and I STILL complain - maybe I ought to
>appreciate how lucky I am....
>
>Gill


I'm in the Los Angeles, Calif. area, and I can't think of one shop
here that compares with what I see in PFK.

[Gill Passman]

Charles wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:13:07 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Charles wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:43:53 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What's your favourite magazine?
>>>>
>>>>I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
>>>>really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
>>>>photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
>>>>NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
>>>>read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
>>>>more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
>>>>my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
>>>>good; does such a thing exist?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In the US there are two others that I know of, AFM (Aquarium fish
>>>Magazine) and TFH, (Tropical fish Hobbyist). Both have more salt
>>>water coverage than I like, but that's them.
>>>
>>>PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
>>>shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>>>
>>>FAMA recently went through some problems, I believe AFM owns them now.
>>>I used to like them mostly for the ads, but now, with the internet,
>>>everything is more available.
>>>
>>>AFM and TFH are good, enough that I subscribe to both. TFH has
>>>changed in the last few years, improved very much, in my opinion.
>>>Both magazines have a plant feature regurlarly.
>>>
>>>The Aquatic Gardeners Associaton puts out a publication, I got it for
>>>a while. but it wasn't what I was looking for. they can be viewed at:
>>>
>>>http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You just made me realise how truly lucky we are in the UK :-)
>>
>><snip>
>>PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
>>shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>><snip>
>>
>>Maybe it is down to the tight regulations on sale of livestock - but the
>>places I frequent (mainly Maidenhead Aquatics) are of the same quality
>>as those shown in PFK....and I STILL complain - maybe I ought to
>>appreciate how lucky I am....
>>
>>Gill
>
>
>
> I'm in the Los Angeles, Calif. area, and I can't think of one shop
> here that compares with what I see in PFK.

WOW...I find that incredible....no wonder there are so many complaints
on this ng about LFS's....I guess you are talking about the "Shoptour"
articles....

Gill

[Bill Stock]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Charles wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:13:07 +0000, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Charles wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:43:53 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What's your favourite magazine?
>>>>>
>>>>>I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday
>>>>>and I really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all
>>>>>those colour photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as
>>>>>you read here and NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of
>>>>>stuff you might not read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too,
>>>>>but it seemed to have more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy
>>>>>a couple to compare, once my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little
>>>>>more plant coverage would be good; does such a thing exist?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In the US there are two others that I know of, AFM (Aquarium fish
>>>>Magazine) and TFH, (Tropical fish Hobbyist). Both have more salt
>>>>water coverage than I like, but that's them.
>>>>
>>>>PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
>>>>shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>>>>
>>>>FAMA recently went through some problems, I believe AFM owns them now.
>>>>I used to like them mostly for the ads, but now, with the internet,
>>>>everything is more available.
>>>>
>>>>AFM and TFH are good, enough that I subscribe to both. TFH has
>>>>changed in the last few years, improved very much, in my opinion.
>>>>Both magazines have a plant feature regurlarly.
>>>>
>>>>The Aquatic Gardeners Associaton puts out a publication, I got it for
>>>>a while. but it wasn't what I was looking for. they can be viewed at:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>You just made me realise how truly lucky we are in the UK :-)
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
>>>shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>Maybe it is down to the tight regulations on sale of livestock - but the
>>>places I frequent (mainly Maidenhead Aquatics) are of the same quality as
>>>those shown in PFK....and I STILL complain - maybe I ought to appreciate
>>>how lucky I am....
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm in the Los Angeles, Calif. area, and I can't think of one shop
>> here that compares with what I see in PFK.
>
> WOW...I find that incredible....no wonder there are so many complaints on
> this ng about LFS's....I guess you are talking about the "Shoptour"
> articles....

I was a little jealous too, although the stores here are pretty decent. Just
don't go to Big Als on the weekend, you won't even get in the parking lot.
Even the local PetsMart has good stock and knowledgeable staff.



> Gill

[Tynk]

Charles wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:43:53 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
> wrote:
>
> >What's your favourite magazine?
> >
> >I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
> >really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
> >photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
> >NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
> >read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
> >more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
> >my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
> >good; does such a thing exist?
> >
> >
>
>
> In the US there are two others that I know of, AFM (Aquarium fish
> Magazine) and TFH, (Tropical fish Hobbyist). Both have more salt
> water coverage than I like, but that's them.
>
> PFk is good, but expensive here. I am always envious of the aquarium
> shops they show, I haven't seen anything here like them for years.
>
> FAMA recently went through some problems, I believe AFM owns them now.
> I used to like them mostly for the ads, but now, with the internet,
> everything is more available.
>
> AFM and TFH are good, enough that I subscribe to both. TFH has
> changed in the last few years, improved very much, in my opinion.
> Both magazines have a plant feature regurlarly.
>
> The Aquatic Gardeners Associaton puts out a publication, I got it for
> a while. but it wasn't what I was looking for. they can be viewed at:
>
> http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/

I subscribe to TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist). Yes, there is probably
more than half of it that caters to marine..however, they always have a
plant section and usually something breathtaking from T. Amano (plant
folks and now bowing and paying homage to him). Their freshwater
articles are usually pretty good.
Aquarium Fish Magazine isn't worth lining a bird cage with, lol.
I *used* to have a subscription to them, but kept finding huge errors,
outright wrong information, that I wrote to them and stopped getting
it.
I have also heard the same thing from seasoned aquarists about this
particular magazine.
A while back, TFH had an article about a breeder's success and making
very orange, Koi Angelfish and how he did it. He gave out the recipe!!
I say recipe because that's just what it is, only it's with genetics
and not food ingredients. = )
For things like these articles is the reason I keep up the
subscription.
I also like to hear about new color morphs of everyday fish, such as
the white and orange Swords, stiped Platies, etc.
Oh....I saw 3 of those orange and white Swords the other day. Very
neat. 2 of the 3 were Lyretail Sword males, basically useless as they
cannot breed. The 3rd was of normal fin variation, but was obviously
sickly - skinny....but they were still neat to see in person.

[Koi-lo]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> Even the local PetsMart has good stock and knowledgeable staff.
==============
PetsMart and Pet Supermarket have some of the BEST fish in my area,
including really attractive prices. The selection is excellent and disease
is rare. They also carry the largest number of goldfish varieties. We
also have two specialist aquarium stores in Nashville but the prices are
higher than anywhere else. Neither carries a large variety of GF. The
benefit of paying more is the people are all knowledgeable and disease all
but unknown. The private stores also carry a larger selection of "real"
aquarium plants. I frequent both the chains and the mom & pop stores. :-)
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tynk]

Koi-lo wrote:
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Even the local PetsMart has good stock and knowledgeable staff.
> ==============
> PetsMart and Pet Supermarket have some of the BEST fish in my area,
> including really attractive prices. The selection is excellent and disease
> is rare. They also carry the largest number of goldfish varieties. We
> also have two specialist aquarium stores in Nashville but the prices are
> higher than anywhere else. Neither carries a large variety of GF. The
> benefit of paying more is the people are all knowledgeable and disease all
> but unknown. The private stores also carry a larger selection of "real"
> aquarium plants. I frequent both the chains and the mom & pop stores. :-)
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Just remember *never* buy fish from Petsmart if you have Angelfish
and/or Discus at home already, or planning on in the future.
Their Angelfish carry the Angelfish virus (aka Discus plague), and
being that it's so contagious, *and*, and here's the biggy....all fish
will be carriers if exposed to it and can pass it on to healthy Angels
or Discus. It doesn't affect any other types of fish except Angels and
Discus.
Petsmart denies the very existance of the virus. Can you believe the
nerve of this company?!?!?!
I went round and round with the higher ups at the Corp., gave them all
sorts of facts to check, heck, I even gave them the name of the head
aquarist at Chicago - IL's Shedd Aquarium to check, and still they said
there was never such a virus and there isn't now. The woman then
actually told me (I was on the phone with her) that all their fish, in
all their stores, are 100% healthy. That right there told me it was
over, and there was no getting anywhere with this damned company. I
called and filed with the BBB (Better Business Bureau.
Just because your particular Petsmart has knowledgeable people, and
clean tanks doesn't mean they aren't selling diseased fish.

[Tynk]

Koi-lo wrote:
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Even the local PetsMart has good stock and knowledgeable staff.
> ==============
> PetsMart and Pet Supermarket have some of the BEST fish in my area,
> including really attractive prices. The selection is excellent and disease
> is rare. They also carry the largest number of goldfish varieties. We
> also have two specialist aquarium stores in Nashville but the prices are
> higher than anywhere else. Neither carries a large variety of GF. The
> benefit of paying more is the people are all knowledgeable and disease all
> but unknown. The private stores also carry a larger selection of "real"
> aquarium plants. I frequent both the chains and the mom & pop stores. :-)
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Just remember *never* buy fish from Petsmart if you have Angelfish
and/or Discus at home already, or planning on in the future.
Their Angelfish carry the Angelfish virus (aka Discus plague), and
being that it's so contagious, *and*, and here's the biggy....all fish
will be carriers if exposed to it and can pass it on to healthy Angels
or Discus. It doesn't affect any other types of fish except Angels and
Discus.
Petsmart denies the very existance of the virus. Can you believe the
nerve of this company?!?!?!
I went round and round with the higher ups at the Corp., gave them all
sorts of facts to check, heck, I even gave them the name of the head
aquarist at Chicago - IL's Shedd Aquarium to check, and still they said
there was never such a virus and there isn't now. The woman then
actually told me (I was on the phone with her) that all their fish, in
all their stores, are 100% healthy. That right there told me it was
over, and there was no getting anywhere with this damned company. I
called and filed with the BBB (Better Business Bureau.
Just because your particular Petsmart has knowledgeable people, and
clean tanks doesn't mean they aren't selling diseased fish.

[Koi-lo]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Koi-lo wrote:
>> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Even the local PetsMart has good stock and knowledgeable staff.
>> ==============
>> PetsMart and Pet Supermarket have some of the BEST fish in my area,
>> including really attractive prices. The selection is excellent and
>> disease
>> is rare. They also carry the largest number of goldfish varieties. We
>> also have two specialist aquarium stores in Nashville but the prices are
>> higher than anywhere else. Neither carries a large variety of GF. The
>> benefit of paying more is the people are all knowledgeable and disease
>> all
>> but unknown. The private stores also carry a larger selection of "real"
>> aquarium plants. I frequent both the chains and the mom & pop stores.
>> :-)
>> --
>>
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> Aquariums since 1952
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
=============
> Just remember *never* buy fish from Petsmart if you have Angelfish
> and/or Discus at home already, or planning on in the future.
> Their Angelfish carry the Angelfish virus (aka Discus plague), and
> being that it's so contagious, *and*, and here's the biggy....all fish
> will be carriers if exposed to it and can pass it on to healthy Angels
> or Discus. It doesn't affect any other types of fish except Angels and
> Discus.

Thanks for the information. I didn't even see any Angels or Discus in any
but the large mom & pop store this morning.

> Petsmart denies the very existance of the virus. Can you believe the
> nerve of this company?!?!?!

That doesn't surprise me a bit. Admitting a problem can be costly for them.
They did admit the gill-fluke problem they had about 5, maybe 6 years ago
and replaced all my goldfish. For awhile they had no GF. The diseased
goldfish were from a breeder in Arkansas. I automatically treat all fish
while in quarantine. Costia is also a problem with fish from the chains.
:-(

> I went round and round with the higher ups at the Corp., gave them all
> sorts of facts to check, heck, I even gave them the name of the head
> aquarist at Chicago - IL's Shedd Aquarium to check, and still they said
> there was never such a virus and there isn't now.

It's all MONEY = $$$$,... the bottom line.

The woman then
> actually told me (I was on the phone with her) that all their fish, in
> all their stores, are 100% healthy.

She's full of *&^%. That's almost an impossibility with the flow through
system they use. One infested fish can infest the whole system. I just
assume all the fish I buy are infested.......

That right there told me it was
> over, and there was no getting anywhere with this damned company. I
> called and filed with the BBB (Better Business Bureau.
> Just because your particular Petsmart has knowledgeable people, and
> clean tanks doesn't mean they aren't selling diseased fish.

So far the worst problem from the chains (in my experience) are parasites,
not virus or bacterial diseases. These are easily treated and they
guarantee the fish for 14 days. The mom & pop places also have their
problems with fish coming in with parasites, but only guarantee them for 72
hours. Petco extended their guarantee another week for me, then replaced
all the GF that died........
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Steve]

Tynk wrote:
> Just remember *never* buy fish from (national chain).

The previous must have been posted twice for emphasis, I guess. It
contains unfair characterization of a decent pet chain that's recently
opened up in my town. It's also an improper use of discussion forum.

Anyone remember "Pets Warehouse" (sp?) issue in the plants forum?.

Steve

[Gill Passman]

Steve wrote:
> Tynk wrote:
>
>> Just remember *never* buy fish from (national chain).
>
>
> The previous must have been posted twice for emphasis, I guess. It
> contains unfair characterization of a decent pet chain that's recently
> opened up in my town. It's also an improper use of discussion forum.
>
> Anyone remember "Pets Warehouse" (sp?) issue in the plants forum?.
>
> Steve

I rather suspect the double posting is down to a problem with a news
server rather than any desire to emphasise a point....I think that we
all have varying experiences of certain chains (in the UK I beleive that
PetSmart is Pets at Home....I do remember it being called Pets
Warehouse in the past (same location 3 names)). I can't comment on the
quality in the UK as I only ever once bought a tank there but nothing
else apart from some goldfish many years ago and some plants that
contained parasites that killed most of the goldfish within
days....everything posted in NGs is people's experience and
opinions...we are not moderated (part of the fun <g>)....therefore
anything goes...if you feel someone's opinion is improper then join a
moderated group which is so sensitive to commercial considerations that
various corporates cannot be criticised. If Tynk has had bad experiences
and taken it to the level she says I have no reason to disbelieve
her....if other people have had better experiences of these chains then
great...and share these likewise...

I think the real point of this discussion is that certain
regions/countries do not have the choice open to other places. I can
choose not to go to Pets at Home (or whatever they are calling
themselves today), I can choose to avoid various branches of a certain
quality franchise because I think standards have slipped. I have a wide
range of outlets within a 20 mile radius where I can chose to shop - and
from the comments I've seen about the stores featured in PFK I know that
I am very lucky as all of the stores I go to are of the quality
highlighted in the articles (even if I have my run ins with them)....not
everyone has this choice or indeed the quality of suppliers....If I feel
one of my local stores is offering sub-standard fish I have three
choices - one to complain, one to boycott and the other to report them
to the licencing authority (or all of them).

If you have a good quality supplier then great...but understand that
this is not the norm...especially from the lack of control that I see
that there is in the US compared to the UK...and this is from postings
from very respected fishkeepers....

I hope your local store lives up to your initial impression - no reason
why it should not...but remember a lot of people are not quite so lucky
as to have quality places to buy their fish

Jumping off soap box (and not onto waterbed - lol)

Gill

[Steve]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>
>> ...The previous must have been posted twice for emphasis, I guess. It
>> contains unfair characterization of a decent pet chain that's recently
>> opened up in my town. It's also an improper use of discussion forum.
>>
>> Anyone remember "Pets Warehouse" (sp?) issue in the plants forum?.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> I rather suspect the double posting is down to a problem with a news
> server rather than any desire to emphasise a point....I think that we
> all have varying experiences of certain chains (in the UK I beleive that
> PetSmart is Pets at Home....I do remember it being called Pets
> Warehouse in the past (same location 3 names))...
>
> Jumping off soap box (and not onto waterbed - lol)
>
> Gill

The waterbed discussions have me visualizing a transparent waterbed
containing goldfish and lit from within. It might be too nice to use for
people :) .

WRT my post, try googling "Pets Warehouse" and "Novak". I became aware
of the PW lawsuits through computer news I read at work. The PW issue
became known well beyond Usenet.
Steve

[Gill Passman]

Steve wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> Steve wrote:
>>
>>> ...The previous must have been posted twice for emphasis, I guess. It
>>> contains unfair characterization of a decent pet chain that's
>>> recently opened up in my town. It's also an improper use of
>>> discussion forum.
>>>
>>> Anyone remember "Pets Warehouse" (sp?) issue in the plants forum?.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> I rather suspect the double posting is down to a problem with a news
>> server rather than any desire to emphasise a point....I think that we
>> all have varying experiences of certain chains (in the UK I beleive
>> that PetSmart is Pets at Home....I do remember it being called Pets
>> Warehouse in the past (same location 3 names))...
>>
>> Jumping off soap box (and not onto waterbed - lol)
>>
>> Gill
>
>
> The waterbed discussions have me visualizing a transparent waterbed
> containing goldfish and lit from within. It might be too nice to use for
> people :) .
>
> WRT my post, try googling "Pets Warehouse" and "Novak". I became aware
> of the PW lawsuits through computer news I read at work. The PW issue
> became known well beyond Usenet.
> Steve

I'm sure if that is the only visualisation that you have that you will
have sweeter dreams than the rest of us :-) Now, a water bed full of
fish is quite a concept...not sure how they would cope with the current...

As regards to the other...might be why I never post the names of places
when I have anything negative to say....But a very good reminder to all
who post on newsgroups...

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>
>> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>>> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > Even the local PetsMart has good stock and knowledgeable staff.
>>> ==============
>>> PetsMart and Pet Supermarket have some of the BEST fish in my area,
>>> including really attractive prices. The selection is excellent and
>>> disease
>>> is rare. They also carry the largest number of goldfish varieties. We
>>> also have two specialist aquarium stores in Nashville but the prices are
>>> higher than anywhere else. Neither carries a large variety of GF. The
>>> benefit of paying more is the people are all knowledgeable and
>>> disease all
>>> but unknown. The private stores also carry a larger selection of "real"
>>> aquarium plants. I frequent both the chains and the mom & pop
>>> stores. :-)
>>> --
>>>
>>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>>> Aquariums since 1952
>>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>>> NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
>>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
>>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
> =============
>
>> Just remember *never* buy fish from Petsmart if you have Angelfish
>> and/or Discus at home already, or planning on in the future.
>> Their Angelfish carry the Angelfish virus (aka Discus plague), and
>> being that it's so contagious, *and*, and here's the biggy....all fish
>> will be carriers if exposed to it and can pass it on to healthy Angels
>> or Discus. It doesn't affect any other types of fish except Angels and
>> Discus.
>
>
> Thanks for the information. I didn't even see any Angels or Discus in
> any but the large mom & pop store this morning.
>
>> Petsmart denies the very existance of the virus. Can you believe the
>> nerve of this company?!?!?!
>
>
> That doesn't surprise me a bit. Admitting a problem can be costly for
> them. They did admit the gill-fluke problem they had about 5, maybe 6
> years ago and replaced all my goldfish. For awhile they had no GF. The
> diseased goldfish were from a breeder in Arkansas. I automatically
> treat all fish while in quarantine. Costia is also a problem with fish
> from the chains. :-(
>
>> I went round and round with the higher ups at the Corp., gave them all
>> sorts of facts to check, heck, I even gave them the name of the head
>> aquarist at Chicago - IL's Shedd Aquarium to check, and still they said
>> there was never such a virus and there isn't now.
>
>
> It's all MONEY = $$$$,... the bottom line.
>
> The woman then
>
>> actually told me (I was on the phone with her) that all their fish, in
>> all their stores, are 100% healthy.
>
>
> She's full of *&^%. That's almost an impossibility with the flow
> through system they use. One infested fish can infest the whole
> system. I just assume all the fish I buy are infested.......
>
> That right there told me it was
>
>> over, and there was no getting anywhere with this damned company. I
>> called and filed with the BBB (Better Business Bureau.
>> Just because your particular Petsmart has knowledgeable people, and
>> clean tanks doesn't mean they aren't selling diseased fish.
>
>
> So far the worst problem from the chains (in my experience) are
> parasites, not virus or bacterial diseases. These are easily treated
> and they guarantee the fish for 14 days. The mom & pop places also have
> their problems with fish coming in with parasites, but only guarantee
> them for 72 hours. Petco extended their guarantee another week for me,
> then replaced all the GF that died........


Did "lunch" with a friend today and we ended up wandering around their
local LFS - they currently have no fish but a penchant for Koi but not
enough room. It was part of the usual franchise chain that I use but one
I'd not been to before...to say I was impressed is an understatement...

They had the usual corporate signs regarding no dyed fish, not selling
tanks below a certain size, not selling tanks on the same day etc. etc.
(anyone who goes to MA in the UK will know the one that I mean) but the
notices and info on the tanks went way over and above what I have seen
elsewhere. There were a lot of Discus on sale...all looked fantastic
quality (and expensive of course)....but the tanks were clearly labelled
that they just had RO water rather than the local hardwater and that
great care had to be taken if purchasing these fish with acclimitizing
to tanks at home - they even gave the pH of the tanks that the fish were
in (usually I'll get told if I asked but I've never seen it on a sign
before). Similar stuff on the Marine tanks...As for the pond fish there
were clear signs saying that they did not recommend the purchase of any
pond fish during this time of year....

All of the tanks were spotless with no dead fish. The Clowns looked a
little stressed though - but showed no sign of Ich and were clearly
marked as not being for sale yet (standard practice for this franchise
when new stock comes in)....

I was impressed...wish all places kept up these high standards
everywhere in the world...

Just thought that I'd share

Gill

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Did "lunch" with a friend today and we ended up wandering around their
> local LFS - they currently have no fish but a penchant for Koi but not
> enough room. It was part of the usual franchise chain that I use but one
> I'd not been to before...to say I was impressed is an understatement...
>
> They had the usual corporate signs regarding no dyed fish, not selling
> tanks below a certain size, not selling tanks on the same day etc. etc.
> (anyone who goes to MA in the UK will know the one that I mean) but the
> notices and info on the tanks went way over and above what I have seen
> elsewhere. There were a lot of Discus on sale...all looked fantastic
> quality (and expensive of course)....but the tanks were clearly labelled
> that they just had RO water rather than the local hardwater and that great
> care had to be taken if purchasing these fish with acclimitizing to tanks
> at home - they even gave the pH of the tanks that the fish were in
> (usually I'll get told if I asked but I've never seen it on a sign
> before). Similar stuff on the Marine tanks...As for the pond fish there
> were clear signs saying that they did not recommend the purchase of any
> pond fish during this time of year....
>
> All of the tanks were spotless with no dead fish. The Clowns looked a
> little stressed though - but showed no sign of Ich and were clearly marked
> as not being for sale yet (standard practice for this franchise when new
> stock comes in)....
>
> I was impressed...wish all places kept up these high standards everywhere
> in the world...
=========================
It sure sounds like the kind of place I would like to buy fish. Some chains
are better than others but so far all have treated me fairly when there were
problems.

Only one store here is "horrible" with sick fish, bad smells, employees who
look like they were dragged out of some back-alley. For some reason I
manage to stop there at least once or twice a year. I never see the same
salesperson. The last time, last November, they had a shipment of bettas on
the cold floor!!! :-( The sales gal told me they came in a few days ago
and she didn't have time to unbag them. A FEW DAYS AGO???? I picked up a
cold bag and the poor little guy looked at me and I bought him. Some were
already dead. He's doing fine but I decided that was the LAST time I ever
stop there..........

As for knowledgeable caring employees.... unfortunately they all seem to
hire people with little or no knowledge of fishkeeping. But when you pay
the minimum wage with few or no benefits they have to take what they can
get. I'm speaking only for this area where I live of course. The turnover
in employees is very high and it seems the main idea is to SELL! I do
remember some really knowledgeable employees in these stores over the years,
but non stayed.......
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Bill Stock > wrote:
>What's your favourite magazine?
>
>I picked up a couple of PFK (Practical Fishkeeping) magazines Friday and I
>really like what I see. The price is a little scarey, but all those colour
>photos cost $$$s. The info probably isn't as indepth as you read here and
>NetMax is free :) . But it's a very good overview of stuff you might not
>read about otherwise. I saw FAMA on the shelf too, but it seemed to have
>more of a Marine bent than PFK. I'll have to buy a couple to compare, once
>my wallet recovers. A magazine with a little more plant coverage would be
>good; does such a thing exist?

APK used to be targeting towards beginner hobbyists and never wanted
anything too "in depth". I use dto talk to the editor all the time.

FAMA used to be the technical one buyt I saw one yesterday and man
was it thin. It looked like half a TFH with more ads.

I still like TFH. Better pictures and articles from foreigners running
all over the globe taking cool pictures.

None of them as as good as the net of course.

--
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