Nitrite mini-spike is over but low level ammonia persists -- why?

[Don]

I recently moved 18 African Cichlids and two small pleco's from an
established 20 gallon to a used 35 gallon tank I bought. The tank is
nowhere near as over-populated as it might seem as the African's range
from 3/4" to 11/2" long. Now I screwed up my bio-filter by not
realizing the danger of rinsing everything in (chlorinated) tap water
-- including the bio-wheels on the Emperor 400 that came with the used
35 gallon setup! The gravel from both tanks was pretty nasty as was
the Emperor 400 -- that's my only excuse for the over-zealous washing.
Once I realized what I had done I added some gravel from the used
setup I had acquired -- still in a pail with the tank water from the
(very highly) used setup. So I had at least some undisturbed seeding.
I bought to pouches of Bio-Spira from two different LFS's -- trusting
that at least one would have escaped poor shipping/handling practice
-- and slowly poured the contents over the bio-wheels. My fish are
showing NO signs of stress and have voracious appetite. The nitrites
promply went down from .25-.5 to 0 but the ammonia persists at about
..25. Ph is about 8.4, hardness about 10. I am using two different
test kits with identical results. Both are the type where yellow=0,
dark green=death. One has two test chemicals and the other uses
three.
I am puzzled why the ammonia remains after the nitrites are gone.
Isn't this backwards?
I have not used "ammo-lock" but the new water conditioner has
something similar in it.

Don in Austin

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Don wrote:
> I recently moved 18 African Cichlids and two small pleco's from an
> established 20 gallon to a used 35 gallon tank I bought. The tank is
> nowhere near as over-populated as it might seem as the African's range
> from 3/4" to 11/2" long. Now I screwed up my bio-filter by not
> realizing the danger of rinsing everything in (chlorinated) tap water
> -- including the bio-wheels on the Emperor 400 that came with the used
> 35 gallon setup! The gravel from both tanks was pretty nasty as was
> the Emperor 400 -- that's my only excuse for the over-zealous washing.
> Once I realized what I had done I added some gravel from the used
> setup I had acquired -- still in a pail with the tank water from the
> (very highly) used setup. So I had at least some undisturbed seeding.
> I bought to pouches of Bio-Spira from two different LFS's -- trusting
> that at least one would have escaped poor shipping/handling practice
> -- and slowly poured the contents over the bio-wheels. My fish are
> showing NO signs of stress and have voracious appetite. The nitrites
> promply went down from .25-.5 to 0 but the ammonia persists at about
> .25. Ph is about 8.4, hardness about 10. I am using two different
> test kits with identical results. Both are the type where yellow=0,
> dark green=death. One has two test chemicals and the other uses
> three.
> I am puzzled why the ammonia remains after the nitrites are gone.
> Isn't this backwards?
> I have not used "ammo-lock" but the new water conditioner has
> something similar in it.
>
> Don in Austin

It does sound backward to me. I had a nitrite spike most likely caused by a
biowheel pro 60 that got plugged up with pond snails but I have it fixed now
(lowered water level so snails wouldn't climb into or on it) but my ammonia
stayed at zero. To top off the mystery I still have "trace" amounts of
nitrite, that danged stuff just doesn't seem to go away yet (I still need to
give it more time I admit). Don't get confused with ammo-lock type
products - they can starve the biological filter and possibly cause the tank
to cycle all over again. I recommend monitoring the tank's water quality and
changing water often or at the very least when the test kits indicate. You
will get through this barring unforeseen events. Good luck and later!

[Don]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:35:10 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>Bottom posted.
>Don wrote:
>> I recently moved 18 African Cichlids and two small pleco's from an
>> established 20 gallon to a used 35 gallon tank I bought. The tank is
>> nowhere near as over-populated as it might seem as the African's range
>> from 3/4" to 11/2" long. Now I screwed up my bio-filter by not
>> realizing the danger of rinsing everything in (chlorinated) tap water
>> -- including the bio-wheels on the Emperor 400 that came with the used
>> 35 gallon setup! The gravel from both tanks was pretty nasty as was
>> the Emperor 400 -- that's my only excuse for the over-zealous washing.
>> Once I realized what I had done I added some gravel from the used
>> setup I had acquired -- still in a pail with the tank water from the
>> (very highly) used setup. So I had at least some undisturbed seeding.
>> I bought to pouches of Bio-Spira from two different LFS's -- trusting
>> that at least one would have escaped poor shipping/handling practice
>> -- and slowly poured the contents over the bio-wheels. My fish are
>> showing NO signs of stress and have voracious appetite. The nitrites
>> promply went down from .25-.5 to 0 but the ammonia persists at about
>> .25. Ph is about 8.4, hardness about 10. I am using two different
>> test kits with identical results. Both are the type where yellow=0,
>> dark green=death. One has two test chemicals and the other uses
>> three.
>> I am puzzled why the ammonia remains after the nitrites are gone.
>> Isn't this backwards?
>> I have not used "ammo-lock" but the new water conditioner has
>> something similar in it.
>>
>> Don in Austin
>
>It does sound backward to me. I had a nitrite spike most likely caused by a
>biowheel pro 60 that got plugged up with pond snails but I have it fixed now
>(lowered water level so snails wouldn't climb into or on it) but my ammonia
>stayed at zero. To top off the mystery I still have "trace" amounts of
>nitrite, that danged stuff just doesn't seem to go away yet (I still need to
>give it more time I admit). Don't get confused with ammo-lock type
>products - they can starve the biological filter and possibly cause the tank
>to cycle all over again.

The water conditioner claimed to convert ammonia into something less
toxic and easily digested by the bio-filter. It is hard to find water
conditioners at the LFS's that strictly dechlorinate without other
bells and whistles but I will look for such tomorrow and try to get
ammonia-binding chemicals completely out of the pitcture.

> I recommend monitoring the tank's water quality and
>changing water often or at the very least when the test kits indicate.

I am going to change about 30% tomorrow and see if ammonia goes away.
How bad is .25 ammonia for African Cichlids? The high PH is said to
make it much worse, but, perhaps the hardness of the water lessens the
impact. (Porous limestone rocks in the tank) I also am considering
adding a little salt but I don't know if that would be so good for the
albino cory, plecos or my other whatever-the-hell-it-is catfish. The
last three tests there was ZERO nitrite so I know some kind of bugs
are alive and working. I am feeding daily and the 5" Pleco leaves the
typical long strings of s__t everywhere. Still the ammonia is not
going up so it IS being digested and converted to nitrite -- just a
little behind speed. Perhaps the Bio-Spira had healthier nitrite
eating bacteria than ammonia eating bacteria.

Don

> You will get through this barring unforeseen events. Good luck and later!

Later

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.
Don wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:35:10 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>> Bottom posted.
>> Don wrote:
>>> I recently moved 18 African Cichlids and two small pleco's from an
>>> established 20 gallon to a used 35 gallon tank I bought. The tank
>>> is nowhere near as over-populated as it might seem as the African's
>>> range from 3/4" to 11/2" long. Now I screwed up my bio-filter by
>>> not realizing the danger of rinsing everything in (chlorinated) tap
>>> water -- including the bio-wheels on the Emperor 400 that came with
>>> the used 35 gallon setup! The gravel from both tanks was pretty
>>> nasty as was the Emperor 400 -- that's my only excuse for the
>>> over-zealous washing. Once I realized what I had done I added some
>>> gravel from the used setup I had acquired -- still in a pail with
>>> the tank water from the (very highly) used setup. So I had at
>>> least some undisturbed seeding. I bought to pouches of Bio-Spira
>>> from two different LFS's -- trusting that at least one would have
>>> escaped poor shipping/handling practice -- and slowly poured the
>>> contents over the bio-wheels. My fish are showing NO signs of
>>> stress and have voracious appetite. The nitrites promply went down
>>> from .25-.5 to 0 but the ammonia persists at about .25. Ph is
>>> about 8.4, hardness about 10. I am using two different test kits
>>> with identical results. Both are the type where yellow=0, dark
>>> green=death. One has two test chemicals and the other uses three.
>>> I am puzzled why the ammonia remains after the nitrites are gone.
>>> Isn't this backwards?
>>> I have not used "ammo-lock" but the new water conditioner has
>>> something similar in it.
>>>
>>> Don in Austin
>>
>> It does sound backward to me. I had a nitrite spike most likely
>> caused by a biowheel pro 60 that got plugged up with pond snails but
>> I have it fixed now (lowered water level so snails wouldn't climb
>> into or on it) but my ammonia stayed at zero. To top off the mystery
>> I still have "trace" amounts of nitrite, that danged stuff just
>> doesn't seem to go away yet (I still need to give it more time I
>> admit). Don't get confused with ammo-lock type
>> products - they can starve the biological filter and possibly cause
>> the tank to cycle all over again.
>
> The water conditioner claimed to convert ammonia into something less
> toxic and easily digested by the bio-filter

That's good then - it should work for you. I didn't know that ammo-lock
changed the toxins into something less toxic that was STILL edible for the
biological filter. I had only heard of the biologically safe treatments once
or twice, good to know. Plus - because I had only glimpse of that I was
only speaking in general about water treatments possibly starving the good
bacteria (biological filter).

.. It is hard to find water
> conditioners at the LFS's that strictly dechlorinate without other
> bells and whistles but I will look for such tomorrow and try to get
> ammonia-binding chemicals completely out of the pitcture.
>
>> I recommend monitoring the tank's water quality and
>> changing water often or at the very least when the test kits
>> indicate.
>
> I am going to change about 30% tomorrow and see if ammonia goes away.
> How bad is .25 ammonia for African Cichlids?

I know that .25 nitrites is borderline toxic for most fish.

The high PH is said to
> make it much worse, but, perhaps the hardness of the water lessens the
> impact. (Porous limestone rocks in the tank) I also am considering
> adding a little salt but I don't know if that would be so good for the
> albino cory, plecos or my other whatever-the-hell-it-is catfish.

From what I have been told small amounts of salt (aquarium salt - not
non-pure salts that have anti-caking agents, etc.. in/on them) will not hurt
anything. 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons is supposed to be safe for anything, I
use that much in my tanks and one tank has sensitive kuhli loaches and they
seem none worse for the ware.

The
> last three tests there was ZERO nitrite so I know some kind of bugs
> are alive and working. I am feeding daily and the 5" Pleco leaves the
> typical long strings of s__t everywhere. Still the ammonia is not
> going up so it IS being digested and converted to nitrite -- just a
> little behind speed. Perhaps the Bio-Spira had healthier nitrite
> eating bacteria than ammonia eating bacteria.

Bio-spira is the best in my opinion.


>
> Don
>
>> You will get through this barring unforeseen events. Good luck and
>> later!
>
> Later