top fin glass aquariums

[Far Thunder]

Hau kolas..

Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2 diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of
their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand
for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into
the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA

lila pilamaya

--
**FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**

[Roy]

If memory serves me right, Perfecto makes the Top Fin line of tanks
for Petsmart, and they are no worse or better than the others...They
carry a decent warranty, and Petsmart is good about taking care of any
problems with their products.....Oceanic may be the Top name in tanks,
and usually uses glass a bit thicker, but all else aside if the tank
does ot leak or fall apart why worry.......its not rocket sicience how
they are made silicone, glass and plastic trim.......pretty darn
simple....Go for it!


On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 02:42:53 -0500, "Far Thunder"
> wrote:
>><>Hau kolas..
>><>
>><>Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2 diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of
>><>their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand
>><>for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into
>><>the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA
>><>
>><>lila pilamaya

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Justice]

Far Thunder wrote:
> Hau kolas..
>
> Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2
> diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of their topFin
> aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a
> 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand for $250. my tanks just happen to
> be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where
> do TopFin fit into the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass,
> breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA
>
> lila pilamaya
>
> --
> **FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**
I have a 10 gal of theirs, only complant is the hood. But as you said
you get what you pay for.

[URBANFLAGE]

"Justice" > wrote in message
news:O3tAf.88576$m05.21178@clgrps12...
> Far Thunder wrote:
> > Hau kolas..
> >
> > Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2
> > diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of their topFin
> > aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a
> > 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand for $250. my tanks just happen to
> > be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where
> > do TopFin fit into the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass,
> > breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA
> >
> > lila pilamaya
> >
> > --
> > **FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**
> I have a 10 gal of theirs, only complant is the hood. But as you said
> you get what you pay for.

I just bought a tank from petsmart 46 gal 18x18x30 with stand for $199 great
deal they can get from their suppliers some neat tanks if you talk to their
fish dept manager.
Brad

[Koi-lo]

"URBANFLAGE" > wrote in message
...
> I just bought a tank from petsmart 46 gal 18x18x30 with stand for $199
> great
> deal they can get from their suppliers some neat tanks if you talk to
> their
> fish dept manager.
> Brad
===========================
They also have the largest and best selection of fish I've seen in a long
time. They carry the largest selection of goldfish bar none. They
guarantee them for 14 days and don't hassle you if the fish died and you
want a replacement. At this time most of my fish come from this chain.
The quality and selection at the "other chain" has been dropping.........
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Far Thunder" > wrote in message
...
> Hau kolas..
>
> Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2
> diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of
> their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me
> uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand
> for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my
> question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into
> the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you get
> what you pay for? TIA


re: North-American hierarchy
Oceanic
Hagen & All-Glass
Perfecto (Top-Fin ?)

afaik Oceanic & All-Glass are the same company now, but manufactured in
different locations.

Some differences might be subtle and will not affect you. Things to look
for: glass thickness, cross-brace?, quality of silicone bead (look for
air entrapment in the seam between panes), (I've seen one manufacturer
switch to clear silicone at the base after applying black silicone on the
sides, but I don't know what that was about), the use of less than
perfect bottom panes (scratched or distorted panes are used on the base
where they can't be seen), grade of glass used on the sides (distortion &
scratch free) and the quality of their canopy (and the availability of
upgrades).

Some of the structural details (ie: use of thinner glass, poor silicone
etc) are things which are more likely to reveal problems during transport
(twist damage) or incorrect installation (flatness of stand). Better
constructed tanks are more stress-tolerant.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> lila pilamaya
>
> --
> **FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**
>

[Billy]

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
> ===========================
> They also have the largest and best selection of fish I've seen in
> a long time. They carry the largest selection of goldfish bar
> none. They guarantee them for 14 days and don't hassle you if the
> fish died and you want a replacement. At this time most of my fish
> come from this chain. The quality and selection at the "other
> chain" has been dropping.........


Around here it used to be the other way 'round. Now, it's as you say.
I just wish I could get them to stop selling 'channel cats' to people
with 5 gallon tanks.....


billy

[Koi-lo]

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ===========================
>> They also have the largest and best selection of fish I've seen in a long
>> time. They carry the largest selection of goldfish bar none. They
>> guarantee them for 14 days and don't hassle you if the fish died and you
>> want a replacement. At this time most of my fish come from this chain.
>> The quality and selection at the "other chain" has been dropping.........
>
>
> Around here it used to be the other way 'round. Now, it's as you say. I
> just wish I could get them to stop selling 'channel cats' to people with 5
> gallon tanks.....
========================
When I was in there last week the girl was selling 10 feeders to a elderly
man with a 15g tank. He actually wasn't sure if it was a 10 or a 15.
:-( I'm sure all those poor little feeders are goners by now. I had to
bite my lip to keep from saying something........
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> Some of the structural details (ie: use of thinner glass, poor silicone
> etc) are things which are more likely to reveal problems during transport
> (twist damage) or incorrect installation (flatness of stand). Better
> constructed tanks are more stress-tolerant.
==============================
All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads. This was suggested by an
aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for. The Styrofoam is
from Lowe's and is used as insulation. I bough a 4 x 8' sheet. They last
indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand or tank.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/Aquarium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Larry Blanchard]

Koi-lo wrote:

> All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads.**This*was*suggested*by
> an aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for.**The
> Styrofoam*is from Lowe's and is used as insulation.**I*bough*a*4*x*8'
> sheet.**They*last indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand
> or tank.

I even do it for the 5 gallon :-).

I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater to
cut and denser but it costs more.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Koi-lo]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
>> All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads. This was suggested by
>> an aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for. The
>> Styrofoam is from Lowe's and is used as insulation. I bough a 4 x 8'
>> sheet. They last indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand
>> or tank.
>
> I even do it for the 5 gallon :-).
>
> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater to
> cut and denser but it costs more.
===============================
What we have is nicely dense and easily cut as well. I once had one that
was awful to cut and made a real mess. It was like little balls
stuck/pressed together.... eeeeeek,.... don't ever buy that one.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[the chris]

I have several Top Fin tanks and they're pretty descent. Plus Top Fin has a life time warranty and petsmart is really good about returns... i may be a bit biased as I work in aquatics for petsmart...

good luck...

- chris
"Far Thunder" > wrote in message ...
Hau kolas..

Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2 diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA

lila pilamaya

--
**FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**

[Larry Blanchard]

Koi-lo wrote:

>
> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater
>> to cut and denser but it costs more.
> ===============================
> What we have is nicely dense and easily cut as well. I once had one
> that
> was awful to cut and made a real mess. It was like little balls
> stuck/pressed together.... eeeeeek,.... don't ever buy that one.

That's the beadboard - the little balls are where it got its name. It's
not too bad to cut with a very sharp utility knife and I seal the edges
with duct tape.

BTW, I don't think the extruded stuff (pink or blue) is Styrofoam.
IIRC, it's polystyrene or some such, but styrofoam is fast becoming a
generic term like kleenex or bandaid.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Elaine T]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> "Billy" > wrote in message
> ...
>

<snip>

>> Around here it used to be the other way 'round. Now, it's as you say.
>> I just wish I could get them to stop selling 'channel cats' to people
>> with 5 gallon tanks.....
>
> ========================
> When I was in there last week the girl was selling 10 feeders to a
> elderly man with a 15g tank. He actually wasn't sure if it was a 10 or
> a 15. :-( I'm sure all those poor little feeders are goners by now. I
> had to bite my lip to keep from saying something........

Heh. The folks in the PetSmart near school know me - practically
offered me a job. They ask me for plant IDs and welcome it when I chime
in to help a customer when they're at a loss. You just have to be very
gentle when you stop biting your lip. Feeders are easy. Point to the
tank, look confused, and say "Why are there so many dead and floating
fish in there?" Salespeople trying to sell feeders as pets rarely have
a good answer. Move on to musing "Poor things. The're so cute as
babies." Look at person buying feeders. You should see the full grown
ones in my pond. (Hold your hands apart to show the size.) I bet
they're half the length of your tank." At this point the person
considering buying 10 goldfish for a 10 gallon tank will often start
asking some pretty good questions.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[NetMax]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
>>
>> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater
>>> to cut and denser but it costs more.
>> ===============================
>> What we have is nicely dense and easily cut as well. I once had one
>> that
>> was awful to cut and made a real mess. It was like little balls
>> stuck/pressed together.... eeeeeek,.... don't ever buy that one.
>
> That's the beadboard - the little balls are where it got its name. It's
> not too bad to cut with a very sharp utility knife and I seal the edges
> with duct tape.
>
> BTW, I don't think the extruded stuff (pink or blue) is Styrofoam.
> IIRC, it's polystyrene or some such, but styrofoam is fast becoming a
> generic term like kleenex or bandaid.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

Don't know if anyone knows or really cares, but afaik, polystyrene was
trademarked by DOW Chemical as Styrofoam. It is manufactured in one of two
ways. The beadboard or 'made of little balls' is known as *expanded*
polystyrene. The other one, which is made up of little air bubbles and is
much more solid, is *extruded* polystyrene. The generic term 'Styrofoam'
is owned by DOW Chemical Inc.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-lo]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
et...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>> "Billy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> Around here it used to be the other way 'round. Now, it's as you say. I
>>> just wish I could get them to stop selling 'channel cats' to people with
>>> 5 gallon tanks.....
>>
>> ========================
>> When I was in there last week the girl was selling 10 feeders to a
>> elderly man with a 15g tank. He actually wasn't sure if it was a 10 or a
>> 15. :-( I'm sure all those poor little feeders are goners by now. I
>> had to bite my lip to keep from saying something........
>
> Heh. The folks in the PetSmart near school know me - practically offered
> me a job. They ask me for plant IDs and welcome it when I chime in to
> help a customer when they're at a loss. You just have to be very gentle
> when you stop biting your lip. Feeders are easy. Point to the tank, look
> confused, and say "Why are there so many dead and floating fish in there?"
> Salespeople trying to sell feeders as pets rarely have a good answer.
> Move on to musing "Poor things. The're so cute as babies." Look at
> person buying feeders. You should see the full grown ones in my pond.
> (Hold your hands apart to show the size.) I bet they're half the length
> of your tank." At this point the person considering buying 10 goldfish
> for a 10 gallon tank will often start asking some pretty good questions.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
===============================
Thanks Elaine, this is excellent advice. :-) The next time I just *may*
say something, as diplomatically as possible. I believe it's situations
like that that turn newbies off to the aquarium hobby. The stores may make
a few pennies initially but look what they lose in the long run.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
>>
>> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater
>>> to cut and denser but it costs more.
>> ===============================
>> What we have is nicely dense and easily cut as well. I once had one
>> that
>> was awful to cut and made a real mess. It was like little balls
>> stuck/pressed together.... eeeeeek,.... don't ever buy that one.
>
> That's the beadboard - the little balls are where it got its name. It's
> not too bad to cut with a very sharp utility knife and I seal the edges
> with duct tape.
>
> BTW, I don't think the extruded stuff (pink or blue) is Styrofoam.
> IIRC, it's polystyrene or some such, but styrofoam is fast becoming a
> generic term like kleenex or bandaid.
================================
Gotcha! This stuff is white that I bought and looks like stucco when cut.
It may be some type of beadboard, but if so this is denser and easier to cut
that that last sheet. Maybe it's just better quality or made by a different
company.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

For those who use this technique to ensure the tank sits level, could
you explain the details - does the weight of the water level it out,
or do you "push" the tank down into the pad in such a way that it's
level, or do you trim the pad somehow (seems like that would be hard
to do right), or....?

(I've got the pink insulation stuff and will be putting a 50g tank
together over the next few days. The stand is mostly level, but I'd
prefer the tank be completely level.)

Thanks,

Liz


Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
> > All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads. This was suggested by
> > an aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for. The
> > Styrofoam is from Lowe's and is used as insulation. I bough a 4 x 8'
> > sheet. They last indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand
> > or tank.
>
> I even do it for the 5 gallon :-).
>
> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater to
> cut and denser but it costs more.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

[Koi-lo]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> For those who use this technique to ensure the tank sits level, could
> you explain the details - does the weight of the water level it out,

The weight of the tank settles it into the foam.

> or do you "push" the tank down into the pad in such a way that it's
> level, or do you trim the pad somehow (seems like that would be hard
> to do right), or....?

Mine are cut just a hair longer than the tank's length.

> (I've got the pink insulation stuff and will be putting a 50g tank
> together over the next few days. The stand is mostly level, but I'd
> prefer the tank be completely level.)

It doesn't LEVEL the tank. You need a level for that. What the foam does
is evenly support the bottom so there is no excessive stress on any of the
seams.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

Shim your stand not the tank to obtain a level surface. The foam
everyone is talking about does nothing to ensure a level
surface...just a miss use of proper terms to describe what its used
for. It basically shims or takes up and fills in space between the
tank frame and whatever surface its setting on. It makes the tank set
on a more "planar" surface so if there is any rocking movement to the
tank due to irregularities on the surface it helps eliminate that
problem. High spots compress the foam more, and low spots see little
compressin but the foams does add a bit of support, be it ever so
little. IMHO 1/2 inch or greater is overkill and certainly not needed.
It need to be no thicker than the biggest gap between surface taank
sits on and the tanks frame.....foam poster board is ore than
sufficient, and if it takes 1/2 inch foam to make it right you have a
problem.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:04:18 -0700, Liz McGuire
> wrote:
>><>For those who use this technique to ensure the tank sits level, could
>><>you explain the details - does the weight of the water level it out,
>><>or do you "push" the tank down into the pad in such a way that it's
>><>level, or do you trim the pad somehow (seems like that would be hard
>><>to do right), or....?
>><>
>><>(I've got the pink insulation stuff and will be putting a 50g tank
>><>together over the next few days. The stand is mostly level, but I'd
>><>prefer the tank be completely level.)
>><>
>><>Thanks,
>><>
>><>Liz
>><>
>><>
>><>Larry Blanchard wrote:
>><>>
>><>> Koi-lo wrote:
>><>>
>><>> > All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads. This was suggested by
>><>> > an aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for. The
>><>> > Styrofoam is from Lowe's and is used as insulation. I bough a 4 x 8'
>><>> > sheet. They last indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand
>><>> > or tank.
>><>>
>><>> I even do it for the 5 gallon :-).
>><>>
>><>> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater to
>><>> cut and denser but it costs more.
>><>>
>><>> --
>><>> It's turtles, all the way down

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Liz McGuire]

OK, got it now. Thanks for the advice. The stand is a new stand,
designed for a 55g tank. I'll look for gaps on the surface when we
set the empty tank on - maybe the foam isn't needed. And we'll shim
the stand to level before we do anything else.

Thanks,

Liz


Roy wrote:
>
> Shim your stand not the tank to obtain a level surface. The foam
> everyone is talking about does nothing to ensure a level
> surface...just a miss use of proper terms to describe what its used
> for. It basically shims or takes up and fills in space between the
> tank frame and whatever surface its setting on. It makes the tank set
> on a more "planar" surface so if there is any rocking movement to the
> tank due to irregularities on the surface it helps eliminate that
> problem. High spots compress the foam more, and low spots see little
> compressin but the foams does add a bit of support, be it ever so
> little. IMHO 1/2 inch or greater is overkill and certainly not needed.
> It need to be no thicker than the biggest gap between surface taank
> sits on and the tanks frame.....foam poster board is ore than
> sufficient, and if it takes 1/2 inch foam to make it right you have a
> problem.
>

[Curt]

Elucidate please. What is the complaint about the hood? huh?

[Tynk]

Far Thunder wrote:
> Hau kolas..
>
> Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2 diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of
> their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand
> for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into
> the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA
>
> lila pilamaya
>
> --
> **FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**

TopFin is Petsmarts generic line of tanks.
You do get what you pay for in this area.

The lesser brands, like TopFin and some Perfecto tanks will often use
lesser quality glass (thinner), silicone issues (too thin a bead or
cheap quality sealer that isn't going to hold up for years, or
chemicals in the water, or even salt for marine tanks), and physical
structure (how it's put together and how it holds together).
It may look the same to the uninformed, but it's really not.
As for the hierarchy:
Oceanic is still the best even though they were bought by AllGlass, but
AllGlass has kept the original quality.
AllGlass
and that's it for me.
I had 1 Perfecto 2 1/2g that I use to house male Bettas in, or use for
quarantine tank, and the rest are all AllGlass and the one that was a
Perfecto busted on me during a cleaning. It was slightly
bumped....something I wouldn't bat an eyelid at with any of the others
I have. Simply thinner glass.

Not that big of a deal with only 2 1/2 gallons of water....but do you
really want to risk your home being damaged because a large tank in
your living room (or where ever) was made out of thin glass and busted.
Probably not.

[Roy]

Well if your into abusing or arbitrarily handling a tank even semi
rough they are all prone to breaking. Certainly no need to any thicker
glass for a simple 10 gal or under tank or any other tank that
Perfecto makes if you just measure the glass and bump it up to the
various online glass calculators you will find those tanks are
perfectly fine for thier intended uses.......Thinner glass is not
lesser quality.its just thinner.....and if it meets the spec for the
size and capacity why is there a need to go larger.......there simply
is not a need to increase thickness......While your at it, why not get
bullet proof glass to ward off those bumps. They are a good tank for
the prices they are sold at plain and simple unless you have money to
burn and have to have bragging rights on name brands. I have a slew
of various el cehapo 10 gal and 20 gal tanks in use for years on end
and have yet to ever have a problem, be it if they are setting on 4
bricks in the yard or on a stand......

On 25 Jan 2006 10:04:10 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:
>><>
>><>Far Thunder wrote:
>><>> Hau kolas..
>><>>
>><>> Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2 diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of
>><>> their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand
>><>> for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so my question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into
>><>> the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you get what you pay for? TIA
>><>>
>><>> lila pilamaya
>><>>
>><>> --
>><>> **FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**
>><>
>><>TopFin is Petsmarts generic line of tanks.
>><>You do get what you pay for in this area.
>><>
>><>The lesser brands, like TopFin and some Perfecto tanks will often use
>><>lesser quality glass (thinner), silicone issues (too thin a bead or
>><>cheap quality sealer that isn't going to hold up for years, or
>><>chemicals in the water, or even salt for marine tanks), and physical
>><>structure (how it's put together and how it holds together).
>><>It may look the same to the uninformed, but it's really not.
>><>As for the hierarchy:
>><>Oceanic is still the best even though they were bought by AllGlass, but
>><>AllGlass has kept the original quality.
>><>AllGlass
>><>and that's it for me.
>><>I had 1 Perfecto 2 1/2g that I use to house male Bettas in, or use for
>><>quarantine tank, and the rest are all AllGlass and the one that was a
>><>Perfecto busted on me during a cleaning. It was slightly
>><>bumped....something I wouldn't bat an eyelid at with any of the others
>><>I have. Simply thinner glass.
>><>
>><>Not that big of a deal with only 2 1/2 gallons of water....but do you
>><>really want to risk your home being damaged because a large tank in
>><>your living room (or where ever) was made out of thin glass and busted.
>><>Probably not.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Tynk]

> Goldfish get large, up to 12" under excellent conditions so a 3g tank is
> much to small. Can you replace this with a 10g tank?just a miss use of proper terms to describe what its used
> for. It basically shims or takes up and fills in space between the
> tank frame and whatever surface its setting on. It makes the tank set
> on a more "planar" surface so if there is any rocking movement to the
> tank due to irregularities on the surface it helps eliminate that
> problem. High spots compress the foam more, and low spots see little
> compressin but the foams does add a bit of support, be it ever so
> little. IMHO 1/2 inch or greater is overkill and certainly not needed.
> It need to be no thicker than the biggest gap between surface taank
> sits on and the tanks frame.....foam poster board is ore than
> sufficient, and if it takes 1/2 inch foam to make it right you have a
> problem.
>
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:04:18 -0700, Liz McGuire
> > wrote:
> >><>For those who use this technique to ensure the tank sits level, could
> >><>you explain the details - does the weight of the water level it out,
> >><>or do you "push" the tank down into the pad in such a way that it's
> >><>level, or do you trim the pad somehow (seems like that would be hard
> >><>to do right), or....?
> >><>
> >><>(I've got the pink insulation stuff and will be putting a 50g tank
> >><>together over the next few days. The stand is mostly level, but I'd
> >><>prefer the tank be completely level.)
> >><>
> >><>Thanks,
> >><>
> >><>Liz
> >><>
> >><>
> >><>Larry Blanchard wrote:
> >><>>
> >><>> Koi-lo wrote:
> >><>>
> >><>> > All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads. This was suggested by
> >><>> > an aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for. The
> >><>> > Styrofoam is from Lowe's and is used as insulation. I bough a 4 x 8'
> >><>> > sheet. They last indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand
> >><>> > or tank.
> >><>>
> >><>> I even do it for the 5 gallon :-).
> >><>>
> >><>> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater to
> >><>> cut and denser but it costs more.
> >><>>
> >><>> --
> >><>> It's turtles, all the way down
>
> --
> \\\|///
> ( @ @ )
> -----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------
>
>
> oooO
> ---------( )----Oooo----------------
> \ ( ( )
> \_) ) /
> (_/
> The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

I agree with Roy.
Use wood shims, not foam.
Available for like a buck at your local hardware store....or where I
fine them, hubby's tool box, lol.

[NetMax]

Thinner glass does have some advantages: less distortion and less weight.
It's the bow that bothers me, and while cross-braces will correct that, they
are a nuisance to work around. For moving or handling, a thicker glass
makes it heavier but less likely to damage (ie: from twist).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> Well if your into abusing or arbitrarily handling a tank even semi
> rough they are all prone to breaking. Certainly no need to any thicker
> glass for a simple 10 gal or under tank or any other tank that
> Perfecto makes if you just measure the glass and bump it up to the
> various online glass calculators you will find those tanks are
> perfectly fine for thier intended uses.......Thinner glass is not
> lesser quality.its just thinner.....and if it meets the spec for the
> size and capacity why is there a need to go larger.......there simply
> is not a need to increase thickness......While your at it, why not get
> bullet proof glass to ward off those bumps. They are a good tank for
> the prices they are sold at plain and simple unless you have money to
> burn and have to have bragging rights on name brands. I have a slew
> of various el cehapo 10 gal and 20 gal tanks in use for years on end
> and have yet to ever have a problem, be it if they are setting on 4
> bricks in the yard or on a stand......
>
> On 25 Jan 2006 10:04:10 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:
>>><>
>>><>Far Thunder wrote:
>>><>> Hau kolas..
>>><>>
>>><>> Popped into the local PetSmart, on a wild goose chase for a glass CO2
>>>diffuser locally, saw some pretty low prices on some of
>>><>> their topFin aquariums..so comparatively low in fact it made me
>>>uneasy..looking at a 46G bow-front tank glass top and stand
>>><>> for $250. my tanks just happen to be All-glass, with one Oceanic. so
>>>my question is, comparatively, where do TopFin fit into
>>><>> the "hierarchy" of tanks (quality of glass, breakability, etc)..you
>>>get what you pay for? TIA
>>><>>
>>><>> lila pilamaya
>>><>>
>>><>> --
>>><>> **FREE LEONARD PELTIER NOW**
>>><>
>>><>TopFin is Petsmarts generic line of tanks.
>>><>You do get what you pay for in this area.
>>><>
>>><>The lesser brands, like TopFin and some Perfecto tanks will often use
>>><>lesser quality glass (thinner), silicone issues (too thin a bead or
>>><>cheap quality sealer that isn't going to hold up for years, or
>>><>chemicals in the water, or even salt for marine tanks), and physical
>>><>structure (how it's put together and how it holds together).
>>><>It may look the same to the uninformed, but it's really not.
>>><>As for the hierarchy:
>>><>Oceanic is still the best even though they were bought by AllGlass, but
>>><>AllGlass has kept the original quality.
>>><>AllGlass
>>><>and that's it for me.
>>><>I had 1 Perfecto 2 1/2g that I use to house male Bettas in, or use for
>>><>quarantine tank, and the rest are all AllGlass and the one that was a
>>><>Perfecto busted on me during a cleaning. It was slightly
>>><>bumped....something I wouldn't bat an eyelid at with any of the others
>>><>I have. Simply thinner glass.
>>><>
>>><>Not that big of a deal with only 2 1/2 gallons of water....but do you
>>><>really want to risk your home being damaged because a large tank in
>>><>your living room (or where ever) was made out of thin glass and busted.
>>><>Probably not.
>
> --
> \\\|///
> ( @ @ )
> -----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------
>
>
> oooO
> ---------( )----Oooo----------------
> \ ( ( )
> \_) ) /
> (_/
> The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Larry Blanchard]

Liz McGuire wrote:

> OK, got it now.**Thanks*for*the*advice.**The*stand*is*a*new*s tand,
> designed for a 55g tank.**I'll*look*for*gaps*on*the*surface*when*we
> set the empty tank on - maybe the foam isn't needed.**And*we'll*shim
> the stand to level before we do anything else.

Sometimes those gaps are too little to be easily seen, but can still
stress the tank. The foam is cheap insurance.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Koi-lo]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Liz McGuire wrote:
>
>> OK, got it now. Thanks for the advice. The stand is a new stand,
>> designed for a 55g tank. I'll look for gaps on the surface when we
>> set the empty tank on - maybe the foam isn't needed. And we'll shim
>> the stand to level before we do anything else.
>
> Sometimes those gaps are too little to be easily seen, but can still
> stress the tank. The foam is cheap insurance.
============================
Someone needs to come up with the idea of pre-cut foam pads for tanks that
can be purchased when we buy the tanks. It can be a real PIA, a mess to cut
one of these foam boards to different sizes. Being 4x8' you also need space
to maneuver them.......
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[richard_b]

here in little old New Zealand, all tanks are sold with polystyrene pads for
them to sit on....


"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Liz McGuire wrote:
> >
> >> OK, got it now. Thanks for the advice. The stand is a new stand,
> >> designed for a 55g tank. I'll look for gaps on the surface when we
> >> set the empty tank on - maybe the foam isn't needed. And we'll shim
> >> the stand to level before we do anything else.
> >
> > Sometimes those gaps are too little to be easily seen, but can still
> > stress the tank. The foam is cheap insurance.
> ============================
> Someone needs to come up with the idea of pre-cut foam pads for tanks that
> can be purchased when we buy the tanks. It can be a real PIA, a mess to
cut
> one of these foam boards to different sizes. Being 4x8' you also need
space
> to maneuver them.......
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
> Troll Information:
> http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[Gill Passman]

richard_b wrote:
> here in little old New Zealand, all tanks are sold with polystyrene pads for
> them to sit on....
>
>
> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Liz McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK, got it now. Thanks for the advice. The stand is a new stand,
>>>>designed for a 55g tank. I'll look for gaps on the surface when we
>>>>set the empty tank on - maybe the foam isn't needed. And we'll shim
>>>>the stand to level before we do anything else.
>>>
>>>Sometimes those gaps are too little to be easily seen, but can still
>>>stress the tank. The foam is cheap insurance.
>>
>>============================
>>Someone needs to come up with the idea of pre-cut foam pads for tanks that
>>can be purchased when we buy the tanks. It can be a real PIA, a mess to
>
> cut
>
>>one of these foam boards to different sizes. Being 4x8' you also need
>
> space
>
>>to maneuver them.......
>>--
>>Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>>Aquariums since 1952
>>My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>>http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
>>Troll Information:
>> http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
>>~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on the
kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers crossed but
I've not had any problems

Gill

[Steve]

Gill Passman wrote:
> None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on the
> kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers crossed but
> I've not had any problems

My aquariums are on thin Ensolite camping foam, on flat surfaces. No
leaks in 15 years, anyway.

Here in Canada aquariums have a plastic base that seems designed to
"give" a bit if the surface is slightly uneven. The plastic extends
downward below the tank bottom to enable this. Perhaps tanks in Europe
and elsewhere are different?
Steve

[Roy]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:28:19 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>><>richard_b wrote:
>><>> here in little old New Zealand, all tanks are sold with polystyrene pads for
>><>> them to sit on....
>><>>
>><>>
snip
>><>None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on the
>><>kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers crossed but
>><>I've not had any problems
>><>
>><>Gill
Your not lucky, you just have a decent planar surface to set it on.
Pads are not needed UNLESS there is a lot of gaps under the tank. If
gaps are so large to require a thick 1/2" pad then that item certainly
should not be used for setting a tank on. After time don;t fool
yourself, that pad will compress and high spots will have just as much
pressure on them as before, but it stil lshould not matter as its on
the plastic trim...not a hard point on glass. A tanakfull of water
even a 5 gal tank has some weight to it and do not think that after
time it will not compress and offer nothing.but a false sense of
security.....At the most the 1/8" foam poster board is more than
sufficient if yur looking for padding, or the styrofoam sheeting such
as is used in boxes of produce etc or packing material.....looks like
styrofoam paper toweling...If that does not fill gaps then yu need to
reconsider your stands top.
--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Gill Passman]

Steve wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on the
>> kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers crossed but
>> I've not had any problems
>
>
> My aquariums are on thin Ensolite camping foam, on flat surfaces. No
> leaks in 15 years, anyway.
>
> Here in Canada aquariums have a plastic base that seems designed to
> "give" a bit if the surface is slightly uneven. The plastic extends
> downward below the tank bottom to enable this. Perhaps tanks in Europe
> and elsewhere are different?
> Steve

My tanks are all glass, including the bottoms. I guess the surfaces I
keep them on are flat and even, so as Roy suggests I just have decent
surfaces to set them on.

My SIL asked about getting something to sit her tanks on and was advised
by the LFS that she would be wasting her money as the surfaces were
solid anyway....not sure how true that is/was but she hasn't had any
problems yet either...

Gill

[Steve]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>
>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>> None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on
>>> the kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers
>>> crossed but I've not had any problems
>>
>>
>>
>> My aquariums are on thin Ensolite camping foam, on flat surfaces. No
>> leaks in 15 years, anyway.
>>
>> Here in Canada aquariums have a plastic base that seems designed to
>> "give" a bit if the surface is slightly uneven. The plastic extends
>> downward below the tank bottom to enable this. Perhaps tanks in Europe
>> and elsewhere are different?
>> Steve
>
>
> My tanks are all glass, including the bottoms. I guess the surfaces I
> keep them on are flat and even, so as Roy suggests I just have decent
> surfaces to set them on.
>
> My SIL asked about getting something to sit her tanks on and was advised
> by the LFS that she would be wasting her money as the surfaces were
> solid anyway....not sure how true that is/was but she hasn't had any
> problems yet either...
>
> Gill
Canadian/ American tanks have a glass bottom too, but have a substantial
plastic "frame" on/ around the bottom. The bottom frame extends down a
bit (3/4" on a 90 gallon?) so can give slightly.

Am I understanding correctly that your aquariums have no plastic bottom
frame?
Steve

[Liz McGuire]

Gotcha. Shims bought tonight, foam all set. Now I just need time to
get it all set up.... :-)

Liz


Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> Sometimes those gaps are too little to be easily seen, but can still
> stress the tank. The foam is cheap insurance.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

[Koi-lo]

"richard_b" > wrote in message ...
> here in little old New Zealand, all tanks are sold with polystyrene pads
> for
> them to sit on....
========================
I sure wish we had that HERE. If we do I have never seen them anywhere, and
I know every pet-shop in two counties. A trend I noticed is in the stands
all being wood or fiberboard now. They range from downright tacky looking
to fine furniture quality. They are much more expensive than the old metal
frame stands. They also hold only one tank whereas the old stands held two.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on the
> kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers crossed but
> I've not had any problems
=========================
If the surface is dead even all the way around supporting the tank's bottom
evenly you should have no problems. I don't trust these wood stands I have,
so feel safer with the pad under them. Also, the metal stands are not 100%
level along all four sides which would put stress on the seams of all my
10gs. These Styrofoam pads are cheap insurance,... better safe than sorry.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> Gill Passman wrote:
>> None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on the
>> kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers crossed but
>> I've not had any problems
>
> My aquariums are on thin Ensolite camping foam, on flat surfaces. No leaks
> in 15 years, anyway.

There you go! :-) One of my 55s was bought in 1987, sits on foam, was
moved several times and all seams still look perfect. I have no idea what
brand name it is. The other one was bought in 1994 if I remember right, but
has thicker glass and a much better support in the middle. It's also been
sitting on a pad (on a homemade stand an old friend gave me.)

> Here in Canada aquariums have a plastic base that seems designed to "give"
> a bit if the surface is slightly uneven. The plastic extends downward
> below the tank bottom to enable this. Perhaps tanks in Europe and
> elsewhere are different?

All my tanks have bottoms like that. The only ones I remember with a flat
bottom were the old Metafram tanks from way-back-when. And yes I had one of
those split a seam and dump 30g of water all over the main floor and
basement back in either the late 60s or early 70s....... :-( You have no
idea how much damage that much water can do.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

Gotcha. Shims bought tonight, foam all set. Now I just need time to
get it all set up.... :-)

Liz


Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> Sometimes those gaps are too little to be easily seen, but can still
> stress the tank. The foam is cheap insurance.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> My SIL asked about getting something to sit her tanks on and was advised
> by the LFS that she would be wasting her money as the surfaces were solid
> anyway....not sure how true that is/was but she hasn't had any problems
> yet either...
===============================
I especially like the pads when I sit a tank on a piece of furniture. It
protects the surface from water and scratches.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Steve wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> Steve wrote:
>>
>>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>> None of mine sit on any pads...three are on level stands, three on
>>>> the kitchen worksurface and one on a very solid unit...fingers
>>>> crossed but I've not had any problems
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My aquariums are on thin Ensolite camping foam, on flat surfaces. No
>>> leaks in 15 years, anyway.
>>>
>>> Here in Canada aquariums have a plastic base that seems designed to
>>> "give" a bit if the surface is slightly uneven. The plastic extends
>>> downward below the tank bottom to enable this. Perhaps tanks in
>>> Europe and elsewhere are different?
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> My tanks are all glass, including the bottoms. I guess the surfaces I
>> keep them on are flat and even, so as Roy suggests I just have decent
>> surfaces to set them on.
>>
>> My SIL asked about getting something to sit her tanks on and was
>> advised by the LFS that she would be wasting her money as the surfaces
>> were solid anyway....not sure how true that is/was but she hasn't had
>> any problems yet either...
>>
>> Gill
>
> Canadian/ American tanks have a glass bottom too, but have a substantial
> plastic "frame" on/ around the bottom. The bottom frame extends down a
> bit (3/4" on a 90 gallon?) so can give slightly.
>
> Am I understanding correctly that your aquariums have no plastic bottom
> frame?
> Steve

You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).

Gill

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not noticed
> any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena or Moby
> Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
==========================
Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was sitting
on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none of my
all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in 1987.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mr. Gardener]

Good morning, or whatever time of day it is when you read this. I've
been an aquarium keeper since sometime in the 1960's when I got my
first job at a Petco store - this was long before Petco had
freestanding stores, we were better known as "The Pet Department" in
discount department stores where we leased space. That job lasted
about a year, but the aquarium bug got me and has never let go. I've
been out of touch with the hobby for several years, keeping just a
couple of tanks that get little more attention than an occasional
water change. I've recently decided to get back into it, get the ol'
55 going with an eye toward finding some nice Angels to breed for the
local fish shops. My 55 is moderately planted, fast headed for heavily
planted, and several inexpensive serpae and neons have been cycling
without casualty for about a month. To prepare and update my knowledge
for this new enterprise, I set my Agent Newsreader to "catch up"
rec.aquaria.freshwater - which returned something close to 20,000
messages for me to plod through. Not as dreary as it might seem, this
being Maine, and this being winter, and me being retired from gainful
employment. I was very pleased to find that this group has continued
to reflect the very best of Usenet, contributers are respectful of
each other and a sense of real brother and sisterhood prevails. You
all deserve a real pat on the back for keeping this such a nice place
to visit. I've been fortunate in that the other groups I follow,
gardening and pipe smoking, have also maintained a fine sense of
community.

The above will serve, I hope, as sufficient introduction to allow me
to get to what prompted me to jump in and start contributing, the
lengthy thread on padding surfaces on which we sit our tanks. The
conversation has focused primarily on the pros and cons of using foam
board to aid in leveling a tank on a not perfectly level surface. I've
used foam board under some of my tanks in the past, but leveling was
never my objective, never crossed my mind: I use foam board to
insulate the tank bottom. This has been especially helpful on those
planted tanks under which I've placed common heating pads - the board
helps to ensure the heat will all go upward to the tank and not
downward to the wooden piece of furniture on which the tank sits. In
these days of lowering our home heating to 60 degrees or less at
night, I've also begun attaching foam boards to the outside surface of
the rear aquarium glass. I've begun to view my aquariums as 80 degree
radiant heaters at night, and aquarium heaters are not the most
efficient users of electricity to heat a room.

That said, I'll bow out for now and go do a couple of partial water
changes.

Mr Gardener


On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:04:18 -0700, Liz McGuire
> wrote:

>For those who use this technique to ensure the tank sits level, could
>you explain the details - does the weight of the water level it out,
>or do you "push" the tank down into the pad in such a way that it's
>level, or do you trim the pad somehow (seems like that would be hard
>to do right), or....?
>
>(I've got the pink insulation stuff and will be putting a 50g tank
>together over the next few days. The stand is mostly level, but I'd
>prefer the tank be completely level.)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Liz
>
>
>Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>
>> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>> > All my tanks over 5g sit on 1" Styrofoam pads. This was suggested by
>> > an aquarium store owner I have a great deal of respect for. The
>> > Styrofoam is from Lowe's and is used as insulation. I bough a 4 x 8'
>> > sheet. They last indefinitely and can be painted to match the stand
>> > or tank.
>>
>> I even do it for the 5 gallon :-).
>>
>> I've used both beadboard and extruded foam. The extruded is neater to
>> cut and denser but it costs more.
>>
>> --
>> It's turtles, all the way down

[Larry Blanchard]

Koi-lo wrote:

> Someone needs to come up with the idea of pre-cut foam pads for tanks
> that can be purchased when we buy the tanks.**It*can*be*a*real*PIA,*a
> mess*to*cut one of these foam boards to different sizes.**Being*4x8'
> you*also*need*space to maneuver them.......

I can get 2x8 beadboard at my local Home Depot. That helps a little.
If your tanks are less than 4' long you could just snap the beadboard
in half in the store parking lot :-).

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Larry Blanchard]

Mr. Gardener wrote:

> I use foam board to
> insulate the tank bottom. This has been especially helpful on those
> planted tanks under which I've placed common heating pads - the board
> helps to ensure the heat will all go upward to the tank and not
> downward to the wooden piece of furniture on which the tank sits.

Good idea, but I'm a little leery of heating pads. I had one short out
on me years ago when it was behind my sore neck. Waking up in the
middle of the night with a fireworks display on each side of your head
is a shocking (pun intended) experience :-). I haven't trusted them
since. But with a GFI circuit I might use one.

> In
> these days of lowering our home heating to 60 degrees or less at
> night, I've also begun attaching foam boards to the outside surface of
> the rear aquarium glass.

Now that one I'm going to try! We only lower ours to 64-65, but the 78
degree tanks still radiate.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[NetMax]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
>> Someone needs to come up with the idea of pre-cut foam pads for tanks
>> that can be purchased when we buy the tanks. It can be a real PIA, a
>> mess to cut one of these foam boards to different sizes. Being 4x8'
>> you also need space to maneuver them.......
>
> I can get 2x8 beadboard at my local Home Depot. That helps a little.
> If your tanks are less than 4' long you could just snap the beadboard
> in half in the store parking lot :-).
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

lol, last time I bought 2" extruded styrofoam sheets at Home Depot, I went
in with measuring tape, yardstick, marker and Olfablade (large exacto
knife), dropped the sheets on the floor and cut them to my requirements (and
so they would fit in my car). They were quite understanding about it. Some
reno stores have cutting facilities and don't even charge for the first cut,
but styrofoam is so easy to cut that I do it myself.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[NetMax]

"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> Good morning, or whatever time of day it is when you read this. I've
> been an aquarium keeper since sometime in the 1960's when I got my
> first job at a Petco store -
<snipped for brevity>

Welcome to the group and thanks for the compliments. Possibly of some mild
entertainment value to you, I wrote a page for anyone returning to the hobby
after a long sabbatical (which might not exactly apply in your case).
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/changes/changes.shtml
cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

> That said, I'll bow out for now and go do a couple of partial water
> changes.
>
> Mr Gardener

[Gill Passman]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>> You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
>> noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
>> or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
>
> ==========================
> Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
> Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was
> sitting on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none
> of my all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in
> 1987.

Well, I just picked up the new tank and it's labelled "Must stand on
Polystyrene" - so hey,ho...The tank itself is all glass so I guess that
makes sense

Gill

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>> You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
>>> noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
>>> or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
>>
>> ==========================
>> Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
>> Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was
>> sitting on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none of
>> my all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in 1987.
>
> Well, I just picked up the new tank and it's labelled "Must stand on
> Polystyrene" - so hey,ho...The tank itself is all glass so I guess that
> makes sense
>
> Gill


Lucky you. How does it look? Anxious to set it up, or is there still a lot
of other work to be done?
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>> You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
>>> noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
>>> or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
>>
>> ==========================
>> Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
>> Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was
>> sitting on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none of
>> my all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in 1987.
>
> Well, I just picked up the new tank and it's labelled "Must stand on
> Polystyrene" - so hey,ho...The tank itself is all glass so I guess that
> makes sense
>
> Gill
========================
YOU DID?? :-))) OK!!!

More and more of the stores here are recommending these pads for under the
tanks. However they don't sell them for some reason. I bet they'd be
pretty good sellers. I think I'll even cut one for my small 5g if I ever
move it from the sunroom sink counter. I have 1/2 a sheet left.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
>> Someone needs to come up with the idea of pre-cut foam pads for tanks
>> that can be purchased when we buy the tanks. It can be a real PIA, a
>> mess to cut one of these foam boards to different sizes. Being 4x8'
>> you also need space to maneuver them.......
>
> I can get 2x8 beadboard at my local Home Depot. That helps a little.
> If your tanks are less than 4' long you could just snap the beadboard
> in half in the store parking lot :-).
================================
Thanks. I can try that next time. I have a van so getting it home was no
problem. I had to use the garage floor to lay it out for cutting rather
than move the furniture off the porch......
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> Good morning, or whatever time of day it is when you read this. I've
> been an aquarium keeper since sometime in the 1960's when I got my
> first job at a Petco store - this was long before Petco had
> freestanding stores, we were better known as "The Pet Department" in
> discount department stores where we leased space.
======= brevity snip!

Welcome to the group. It's nice to see other oldimers-to-the-hobby here.
Some of the angelfish available nowadays are almost beyond belief. I no
longer raise tropical fish to sell to the stores as it's not worth the
expense anymore. I do raise and sell koi, goldfish and pond plants. My
pond hobby is all but self supporting.

Indoors I keep a few tiny koi, fancy goldfish and platys (in a sun-fishroom
with loads of tropical houseplants.)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

NetMax wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
>>>>noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
>>>>or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
>>>
>>>==========================
>>>Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
>>>Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was
>>>sitting on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none of
>>>my all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in 1987.
>>
>>Well, I just picked up the new tank and it's labelled "Must stand on
>>Polystyrene" - so hey,ho...The tank itself is all glass so I guess that
>>makes sense
>>
>>Gill
>
>
>
> Lucky you. How does it look? Anxious to set it up, or is there still a lot
> of other work to be done?

Well, right at the moment it's sitting on the floor of the Conservatory
and pretty much dwarfing everything in there including the sofas - LOL.
I'm not very good at visuallising and am amazed at just how big it
is...that being said, I'm sure it will be great once set up - just think
my existing fish are going to be a bit lost with all the space. Hmmm,
more needed - got some Platys and Clowns in QT at the moment in
anticipation but they will no where near fill it either...

Picked up a Fluval 5FX at the same time, that's a bit of a monster as
well after the 404/304/204 that I have already...apparently there is a
DVD that should come with it but it was missing - they have another copy
on order for me...

Can't wait to get it up and running but there are a few things to do
first. For starters we need to move the existing tank (action plan
sorted) - my only worry there is that we will find a space for it and it
won't move again - but I am determined that it will (she said with
gritted teeth). We then need to put an air con unit onto the wall - we
haven't been able to do it before because of the tank and dust etc
(apparently 1/2 day has been put aside for this). Then the cabinet needs
to be put together...

My guess is that I will be shopping next week for heaters, (I'm thinking
two 300W Fluval Tronics as I've had no problems with them apart from
their habit of slipping off the glass at the back), some good size
driftwood/rocks - I thought the bits I had were big enough but they
might be big in the 47.5gall but will be lost in this one - final
decisions on substrate to make, plant cuttings to take and decisions on
the lighting.

The tank has a glass sliding lid and I'm starting to think that that
would look quite cool on it's own if I can persuade hubby towards some
type of pendant lighting....ongoing discussion...we are already going to
side light it so it's just the overheads that need sorting....

The project at least is underway now...I need to get my act together and
start posting pics (blow by blow account). Another project for this
weekend - got a domain sorted just need to work out the website side of
it....

The other work and the time that the cabinet will take isn't too much of
an issue as it will give me the chance to try some dry runs to get a
good idea of how I want it - I'm sure that I will change my mind over
the next few months and fiddle - but that is part of the fun :-)

Can't put any water in the tank for a couple of days anyway according to
the label...so some big leak testing will need to be done before it goes
live....and then I'll do the move gradually, swopping water between the
two tanks until they reach some sort of balance - I'm guessing one to
two weeks of frequent changes on both...

It's going to be fun - :-)

Gill

[Koi-lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Can't wait to get it up and running but there are a few things to do
> first. For starters we need to move the existing tank (action plan
> sorted) - my only worry there is that we will find a space for it and it
> won't move again - but I am determined that it will (she said with gritted
> teeth).

What would you do with it otherwise? :-) It'll make an excellent QT tank
or just an "everything extra" tank for those oddball fish you just couldn't
live without but don't want in the main tank. That's what happened to my
30Long after I bought the second 55g tank. I was supposed to sell it......
I hope to set it up some time this year.

> My guess is that I will be shopping next week for heaters, (I'm thinking
> two 300W Fluval Tronics as I've had no problems with them apart from their
> habit of slipping off the glass at the back), some good size
> driftwood/rocks - I thought the bits I had were big enough but they might
> be big in the 47.5gall but will be lost in this one - final decisions on
> substrate to make, plant cuttings to take and decisions on the lighting.

A large tank looks really good with a grouping of small driftwood and rocks
at one end. Sometimes this can make a better showing, have a more natural
look than 1 or 2 large pieces. The last place I worked had a large tank 250
or 300g tank (I can't remember the exact gallonage) with most of the
decorations off-set to the side, the rocks, plants and driftwood getting
thinner as you looked from left to right. It gave the impression of looking
from a river or pond bank to the middle of the river. Almost everyone who
came into the store commented on it. Heaters and filter intakes were hidden
behind the wood and plants. Beautiful!

> The tank has a glass sliding lid and I'm starting to think that that would
> look quite cool on it's own if I can persuade hubby towards some type of
> pendant lighting....ongoing discussion...we are already going to side
> light it so it's just the overheads that need sorting....

That would be ideal, especially if you want live plants. The glass would
keep the jumpers from committing suicide.

> The other work and the time that the cabinet will take isn't too much of
> an issue as it will give me the chance to try some dry runs to get a good
> idea of how I want it - I'm sure that I will change my mind over the next
> few months and fiddle - but that is part of the fun :-)

For added fun you can change it every few months like I do my 55s. Even
though the plants stay put the rocks and wood can be moved around.

> Can't put any water in the tank for a couple of days anyway according to
> the label...so some big leak testing will need to be done before it goes
> live....and then I'll do the move gradually, swopping water between the
> two tanks until they reach some sort of balance - I'm guessing one to two
> weeks of frequent changes on both...
>
> It's going to be fun - :-)

You bet!!!!
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> NetMax wrote:
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>>Koi-lo wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .


<snip>

> The project at least is underway now...I need to get my act together
> and start posting pics (blow by blow account). Another project for this
> weekend - got a domain sorted just need to work out the website side of
> it....

That will be great. I'm looking forward to it.

> The other work and the time that the cabinet will take isn't too much
> of an issue as it will give me the chance to try some dry runs to get a
> good idea of how I want it - I'm sure that I will change my mind over
> the next few months and fiddle - but that is part of the fun :-)

I like to spend a bit of time dry-fitting everything, driftwood, rock
structures, accessories etc, without having the water as an impediment.
I once made a quick cardboard mock-up of a tank, to arrange the layers of
rocks which were going in (several hundred pounds). Doing it in the
actual tank would have been much more work lifting and lowering the
stones (my cardboard mock-up had no front), and there would be the danger
of scratching the glass. Once the structure was completed, I took a
picture, then disassembled it into layers on the floor (like an exploded
assembly diagram), took more pictures and printed it out. After
assembling into the tank, I then took a few more days to arrange the
filtration & heating to be invisible, and used silk plants to decide
where the real ones were going (and the silk ones were staying).
Sometimes I throw an aquarium together in an hour, and other times they
are carefully planned works of art ;~).

> Can't put any water in the tank for a couple of days anyway according
> to the label...so some big leak testing will need to be done before it
> goes live....and then I'll do the move gradually, swopping water
> between the two tanks until they reach some sort of balance - I'm
> guessing one to two weeks of frequent changes on both...
>
> It's going to be fun - :-)
>
> Gill

I'm glad for you.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Tynk]

Gill Passman wrote:
> NetMax wrote:
> > "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >
> >>Koi-lo wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
> >>>>noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
> >>>>or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
> >>>
> >>>==========================
> >>>Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
> >>>Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was
> >>>sitting on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none of
> >>>my all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in 1987.
> >>
> >>Well, I just picked up the new tank and it's labelled "Must stand on
> >>Polystyrene" - so hey,ho...The tank itself is all glass so I guess that
> >>makes sense
> >>
> >>Gill
> >
> >
> >
> > Lucky you. How does it look? Anxious to set it up, or is there still a lot
> > of other work to be done?
>
> Well, right at the moment it's sitting on the floor of the Conservatory
> and pretty much dwarfing everything in there including the sofas - LOL.
> I'm not very good at visuallising and am amazed at just how big it
> is...that being said, I'm sure it will be great once set up - just think
> my existing fish are going to be a bit lost with all the space. Hmmm,
> more needed - got some Platys and Clowns in QT at the moment in
> anticipation but they will no where near fill it either...
>
> Picked up a Fluval 5FX at the same time, that's a bit of a monster as
> well after the 404/304/204 that I have already...apparently there is a
> DVD that should come with it but it was missing - they have another copy
> on order for me...
>
> Can't wait to get it up and running but there are a few things to do
> first. For starters we need to move the existing tank (action plan
> sorted) - my only worry there is that we will find a space for it and it
> won't move again - but I am determined that it will (she said with
> gritted teeth). We then need to put an air con unit onto the wall - we
> haven't been able to do it before because of the tank and dust etc
> (apparently 1/2 day has been put aside for this). Then the cabinet needs
> to be put together...
>
> My guess is that I will be shopping next week for heaters, (I'm thinking
> two 300W Fluval Tronics as I've had no problems with them apart from
> their habit of slipping off the glass at the back), some good size
> driftwood/rocks - I thought the bits I had were big enough but they
> might be big in the 47.5gall but will be lost in this one - final
> decisions on substrate to make, plant cuttings to take and decisions on
> the lighting.
>
> The tank has a glass sliding lid and I'm starting to think that that
> would look quite cool on it's own if I can persuade hubby towards some
> type of pendant lighting....ongoing discussion...we are already going to
> side light it so it's just the overheads that need sorting....
>
> The project at least is underway now...I need to get my act together and
> start posting pics (blow by blow account). Another project for this
> weekend - got a domain sorted just need to work out the website side of
> it....
>
> The other work and the time that the cabinet will take isn't too much of
> an issue as it will give me the chance to try some dry runs to get a
> good idea of how I want it - I'm sure that I will change my mind over
> the next few months and fiddle - but that is part of the fun :-)
>
> Can't put any water in the tank for a couple of days anyway according to
> the label...so some big leak testing will need to be done before it goes
> live....and then I'll do the move gradually, swopping water between the
> two tanks until they reach some sort of balance - I'm guessing one to
> two weeks of frequent changes on both...
>
> It's going to be fun - :-)
>
> Gill
> It's going to be fun - :-)

Hey Gill my dear! = )
It sure sounds like it!
How are the new Clowns doing?

[Gill Passman]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>
>> Can't wait to get it up and running but there are a few things to do
>> first. For starters we need to move the existing tank (action plan
>> sorted) - my only worry there is that we will find a space for it and
>> it won't move again - but I am determined that it will (she said with
>> gritted teeth).
>
>
> What would you do with it otherwise? :-) It'll make an excellent QT
> tank or just an "everything extra" tank for those oddball fish you just
> couldn't live without but don't want in the main tank. That's what
> happened to my 30Long after I bought the second 55g tank. I was
> supposed to sell it...... I hope to set it up some time this year.
>
>> My guess is that I will be shopping next week for heaters, (I'm
>> thinking two 300W Fluval Tronics as I've had no problems with them
>> apart from their habit of slipping off the glass at the back), some
>> good size driftwood/rocks - I thought the bits I had were big enough
>> but they might be big in the 47.5gall but will be lost in this one -
>> final decisions on substrate to make, plant cuttings to take and
>> decisions on the lighting.
>
>
> A large tank looks really good with a grouping of small driftwood and
> rocks at one end. Sometimes this can make a better showing, have a more
> natural look than 1 or 2 large pieces. The last place I worked had a
> large tank 250 or 300g tank (I can't remember the exact gallonage) with
> most of the decorations off-set to the side, the rocks, plants and
> driftwood getting thinner as you looked from left to right. It gave the
> impression of looking from a river or pond bank to the middle of the
> river. Almost everyone who came into the store commented on it.
> Heaters and filter intakes were hidden behind the wood and plants.
> Beautiful!
>
>> The tank has a glass sliding lid and I'm starting to think that that
>> would look quite cool on it's own if I can persuade hubby towards some
>> type of pendant lighting....ongoing discussion...we are already going
>> to side light it so it's just the overheads that need sorting....
>
>
> That would be ideal, especially if you want live plants. The glass
> would keep the jumpers from committing suicide.
>
>> The other work and the time that the cabinet will take isn't too much
>> of an issue as it will give me the chance to try some dry runs to get
>> a good idea of how I want it - I'm sure that I will change my mind
>> over the next few months and fiddle - but that is part of the fun :-)
>
>
> For added fun you can change it every few months like I do my 55s. Even
> though the plants stay put the rocks and wood can be moved around.
>
>> Can't put any water in the tank for a couple of days anyway according
>> to the label...so some big leak testing will need to be done before it
>> goes live....and then I'll do the move gradually, swopping water
>> between the two tanks until they reach some sort of balance - I'm
>> guessing one to two weeks of frequent changes on both...
>>
>> It's going to be fun - :-)
>
>
> You bet!!!!

The plan in reality for the old tank is to move it to our company
offices....we will probably make it a species tank and totally fill it
with Neon Tetras...although I do hanker after Discus but I'm not sure
that I would want them without total control which I could not do if
they were in the Office (not here)...it would also mean RO water etc
because of our water conditions here...

With respect to the decor, we are thinking of not using a backing for
the tank...we have an earthy orange theme in the room which we think
would look great with the darkness of the driftwood and the green of the
plants...so the trick will be to hide the pipe work...my plan is to set
up the pipe work and play with some driftwood while the tank is dry...if
it doesn't work then I still have the option of buying a backing for the
tank...

Like you say, part of the fun is swopping things about. I'm continuously
doing this with most of my tanks....I'm never satisfied...it has to be
said I also do this with furnishings in my house...change is as good as
a rest - LOL. It adds to the enjoyment....

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Tynk wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>>NetMax wrote:
>>
>>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>Koi-lo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You are right...mine do have a plastic frame as well, but I've not
>>>>>>noticed any "give" on them. The tanks I currently have are Fluval,Rena
>>>>>>or Moby Dick (the dinky 20l ones).
>>>>>
>>>>>==========================
>>>>>Since the foam is so cheap I feel it's worth it. But then I did have a
>>>>>Metafram split a seam and cause a lot of damage in the past. It was
>>>>>sitting on one of those old metal stands from the times. So far none of
>>>>>my all-glass tanks ever split and the oldest is a 55g I got back in 1987.
>>>>
>>>>Well, I just picked up the new tank and it's labelled "Must stand on
>>>>Polystyrene" - so hey,ho...The tank itself is all glass so I guess that
>>>>makes sense
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Lucky you. How does it look? Anxious to set it up, or is there still a lot
>>>of other work to be done?
>>
>>Well, right at the moment it's sitting on the floor of the Conservatory
>>and pretty much dwarfing everything in there including the sofas - LOL.
>>I'm not very good at visuallising and am amazed at just how big it
>>is...that being said, I'm sure it will be great once set up - just think
>>my existing fish are going to be a bit lost with all the space. Hmmm,
>>more needed - got some Platys and Clowns in QT at the moment in
>>anticipation but they will no where near fill it either...
>>
>>Picked up a Fluval 5FX at the same time, that's a bit of a monster as
>>well after the 404/304/204 that I have already...apparently there is a
>>DVD that should come with it but it was missing - they have another copy
>>on order for me...
>>
>>Can't wait to get it up and running but there are a few things to do
>>first. For starters we need to move the existing tank (action plan
>>sorted) - my only worry there is that we will find a space for it and it
>>won't move again - but I am determined that it will (she said with
>>gritted teeth). We then need to put an air con unit onto the wall - we
>>haven't been able to do it before because of the tank and dust etc
>>(apparently 1/2 day has been put aside for this). Then the cabinet needs
>>to be put together...
>>
>>My guess is that I will be shopping next week for heaters, (I'm thinking
>>two 300W Fluval Tronics as I've had no problems with them apart from
>>their habit of slipping off the glass at the back), some good size
>>driftwood/rocks - I thought the bits I had were big enough but they
>>might be big in the 47.5gall but will be lost in this one - final
>>decisions on substrate to make, plant cuttings to take and decisions on
>>the lighting.
>>
>>The tank has a glass sliding lid and I'm starting to think that that
>>would look quite cool on it's own if I can persuade hubby towards some
>>type of pendant lighting....ongoing discussion...we are already going to
>>side light it so it's just the overheads that need sorting....
>>
>>The project at least is underway now...I need to get my act together and
>>start posting pics (blow by blow account). Another project for this
>>weekend - got a domain sorted just need to work out the website side of
>>it....
>>
>>The other work and the time that the cabinet will take isn't too much of
>>an issue as it will give me the chance to try some dry runs to get a
>>good idea of how I want it - I'm sure that I will change my mind over
>>the next few months and fiddle - but that is part of the fun :-)
>>
>>Can't put any water in the tank for a couple of days anyway according to
>>the label...so some big leak testing will need to be done before it goes
>>live....and then I'll do the move gradually, swopping water between the
>>two tanks until they reach some sort of balance - I'm guessing one to
>>two weeks of frequent changes on both...
>>
>>It's going to be fun - :-)
>>
>>Gill
>>It's going to be fun - :-)
>
>
> Hey Gill my dear! = )
> It sure sounds like it!
> How are the new Clowns doing?
>

They seem to be holding their own but are still very shy. No signs of
white spot/ich so although still holding my breath I'm hopeful. One is
more confident than the other two and takes on the Ram who seems to have
developed a hatred of all bottom dwellers - he now picks on the cories
as well which he never did before. Another one of the clowns comes out
from time to time but I have had the odd panic about the third but if I
search he is still OK - a little greyed out but still quite lively....

I was very nervous about buying the Clowns because of local reports
(including trusted LFS staff) about quality so it is still very much
fingers crossed - it'll be two weeks Saturday since I bought these and
no sign of illness yet - just nervous....I didn't get them from my
prefered place who have now started stocking Clowns again...they got
them in on Monday and say that they are doing well and they are happier
with this latest batch...I said I would revisit this in a couple of
weeks time which they agreed was sensible but seemed fairly confident -
they have warned me off buying fish before and take them off the market
if any problems...

So I'm still on edge about the new Clowns...they are in the 15 gall at
the moment...I've not seen them feed but the snail population is
reducing....and there are some holes in the cucumber....

Thanks for asking
Gill