Setting up new Tank; UGF Filter?

[David]

I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
back.

If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
need the air pump for anything? I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do chemcial,
bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of both worlds?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[Koi-lo]

"David" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
> past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
> back.

Just my opinion but the Aquaclears the best on the market. You also save
money by squeezing out and reusing the sponges instead of being forced to
spend money replacing special cartridges. You can add more media to an
Aquaclear as well - just set it on top of the sponge or sponges. They also
do a good job of aerating the water. Since most of my fish are fancy
goldfish, a fish hungry for oxygen, I do add an airstone in each tank. Air
pumps today are a lot quieter than they were a few years back.

> If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
> even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
> need the air pump for anything?

No one I know uses those UGFs anymore. They collect a lot of curd under the
plates that's hard to clean out and some have trouble with live plants when
using an UGF. I gave them up some years back. I wasn't comfortable with
all that "gunk" under the plates but STILL in the tank.

I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
> the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do chemcial,
> bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of both worlds?

Avoid those designed to have you keep coming back and spending money for yet
another cartridge.....

> Any thoughts would be appreciated!
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
David wrote:
> I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
> past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
> back.
>
> If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
> even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
> need the air pump for anything? I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
> the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do
> chemcial, bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of
> both worlds?
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated!

If you have an appropriately sized and operating biowheel you don't need the
undergravel filter. You might use the UGF for redundancy in case something
goes wrong (I can only think of my only problem with the biowheels and that
is those danged pond snails getting into the biowheel chamber and clogging
the biowheel to cause my current semi-recycling situation which has given me
headaches, but things might end up being fine but I can totally prevent this
from happening again by lowering the water like I have and that ensures that
the pond snails cannot clog or otherwise interfere with the biowheel
operation). My order of preference of biological filtration is - trickle
filter (very expensive), biowheels (inexpensive and works wonderfully -
served me 1 and 1/2 years perfectly so far excluding the pond snails
clogging it up like I mentioned before) and undergravel filters. It is the
best of both worlds like you suggest, in my opinion biowheels are the best
and least confusing form of biological filtration most likely to help
newbies or just plain starting up a new tank. Good luck and later!

[NetMax]

"David" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
> past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
> back.
>
> If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
> even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
> need the air pump for anything? I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
> the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do chemcial,
> bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of both worlds?
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated!


You don't need any one of these particular filters, but having a
combination gives you a wider spectrum of filtration and redundancy. For
larger tanks, it's not uncommon to have a combination (ie: canister +
biowheel + powerfilter), but for smaller tanks such as yours,
powerfilters such as the Marineland HOBs have an advantage over the
AquaClears with the biowheel. They also have disadvantages of a
significantly reduced mechanical filtration capacity and the use of
proprietary materials (they want you to keep spending money on
replacements). Both handle chemical filtration, but the AquaClear
sponges can be rinsed and re-used for many years. You can similarly use
reusable materials in some of the Marineland filters (ie: Emperors)
though far less effectively than is done on the AquaClear. The more
specialised Penguin has the Biowheel, the more generalized AquaClear is a
workhorse. Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle, Marineland
filters can clog faster, AquaClears do both mechanical & biological
filtration in the same sponge (so use 2 and alternate their
cleaning)....sometimes what you're most accustomed to working with is
what settles the decision ;~).

In almost all cases, you don't need an airpump. hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[dc]

"David" > wrote in news:1138152383.558459.30950
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
> past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
> back.
>
> If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
> even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
> need the air pump for anything? I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
> the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do chemcial,
> bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of both worlds?
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated!
>

UGF are cheap. That's about all they have going for them. The kind driven
by airstones are not really practical for anything larger than a 10 gallon
aquarium. The ones driven by powerheads are effective, but still really
lousy when compared to most other options.

The Penguin Biowheel is a decent beginner filter, but you need to replace
the chem/mech filter pad every month or else the floss gets clogged and the
active carbon expires. The nice thing about them is they are wet/dry bio
filters and you rarely if never have to damage your nitrifying bacteria
culture to replace the wheel.

Canister filters are the best for freshwater without question. Their
maintenance is minimal and they remove more waste in one pass than just
about any other system. I prefer the Eheims but they're generally also the
most costly.

Air pumps are good to have around for emergencies or to help break in a new
tank, but they are otherwise not usually necessary.

[Larry Blanchard]

NetMax wrote:

> Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,

Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
quiet the rattles.

I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[dc]

Larry Blanchard > wrote in news:11tfpu3mrqlor80
@corp.supernews.com:

> NetMax wrote:
>
>> Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,
>
> Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
> couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
> quiet the rattles.

Replacing the impeller shaft is far more effective. Rattling is caused by
scouring on the shaft or on the inside of the impeller itself. If you
clean both these parts regularly you will need to replace them less.

[Koi-lo]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,
>
> Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
> couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
> quiet the rattles.

Or just leave the lids off like I do.

> I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
> tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
> the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?

They work very well. I use a variation of sponge filters in my outdoor
pools (150g).
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,
>
> Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
> couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
> quiet the rattles.
>
> I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
> tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
> the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?

Yeah, if you use a sponge prefilter with the powerhead get a sponge
prefilter that is coarse not fine, as the fine will clog quickly even under
normal use (every 2 or 3 days). That is why I am investigating replacing 2
of my filter max IIIs with marineland coarse sponge prefilters. Good luck
and later!

[Elaine T]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> NetMax wrote:
>
>
>>Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,
>
>
> Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
> couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
> quiet the rattles.
>
> I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
> tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
> the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?

You keep the covers on your Aquaclears? There's your problem.

I have one tank that's completely plant filtered and I'm considering
pulling the filter from another. It's very satisfying to run on only an
airstone or powerhead.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Steve]

Elaine T wrote:
>
> You keep the covers on your Aquaclears? There's your problem.
>
If I leave the covers off my Aquaclears, then the cats drink out of them
:) .
Steve

[David]

If I just have a Aquaclear, Penguin, etc... without an airpump, do I
need to worry about having enough oxygen in the water? Sorry if this
is a silly question.

Thanks!

[Altum]

David wrote:
> If I just have a Aquaclear, Penguin, etc... without an airpump, do I
> need to worry about having enough oxygen in the water? Sorry if this
> is a silly question.
>
> Thanks!
>
If the filter causes surface turbulance, you usually don't need an airstone.

[NetMax]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. com...
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> NetMax wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,
>>
>>
>> Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
>> couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
>> quiet the rattles.
>>
>> I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
>> tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
>> the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?
>
> You keep the covers on your Aquaclears? There's your problem.

Ambitious fish can jump into the filter, and then out on to the tank
cover, and then to the floor (and that's with the cover on, off is
worse). I don't actually have any which rattle right now. The last one
purchased did for a few days until it got broken in.

> I have one tank that's completely plant filtered and I'm considering
> pulling the filter from another. It's very satisfying to run on only
> an airstone or powerhead.

Yep, low flow sponge powerhead pointed down from the top of the tank,
just for circulation.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[NetMax]

"dc" > wrote in message
.. .
> "David" > wrote in news:1138152383.558459.30950
> @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
>> past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
>> back.
>>
>> If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
>> even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
>> need the air pump for anything? I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
>> the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do
>> chemcial,
>> bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of both worlds?
>>
>> Any thoughts would be appreciated!
>>
>
> UGF are cheap. That's about all they have going for them. The kind
> driven
> by airstones are not really practical for anything larger than a 10
> gallon
> aquarium. The ones driven by powerheads are effective, but still
> really
> lousy when compared to most other options.
>
> The Penguin Biowheel is a decent beginner filter, but you need to
> replace
> the chem/mech filter pad every month or else the floss gets clogged and
> the
> active carbon expires. The nice thing about them is they are wet/dry
> bio
> filters and you rarely if never have to damage your nitrifying bacteria
> culture to replace the wheel.
>
> Canister filters are the best for freshwater without question.

Now a bold statement like that just invites comment ;~).

How's your German? This design (Hamburg Matt filter) has a lot of
advantages going for it.
http://www.tuttas.de/aquaristik/konstruktion.htm
Imagine putting a powerhead into that corner, simply blowing water back
into the tank. The matt could actually go right across the back of the
tank, and you would probably hit that sweet spot where a filter never
needs cleaning (the rate of trapped organic matter decay was faster than
the rate the matter accumulated).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Their
> maintenance is minimal and they remove more waste in one pass than just
> about any other system. I prefer the Eheims but they're generally also
> the
> most costly.



> Air pumps are good to have around for emergencies or to help break in a
> new
> tank, but they are otherwise not usually necessary.
>

[Koi-lo]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. com...
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> NetMax wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Biowheels can squeak, AquaClear covers can rattle,
>>
>>
>> Yea verily, thou speakest truth on the rattling. I have found that a
>> couple of lead weights (sinkers, wheel weights, whatever) will usually
>> quiet the rattles.
>>
>> I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
>> tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
>> the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?
>
> You keep the covers on your Aquaclears? There's your problem.
============================
I'm wondering if a worn or cocked impeller causes the vibration that makes
some of them rattle. I removed all covers a few years ago so mine are
extremely quiet.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
> David wrote:
>> If I just have a Aquaclear, Penguin, etc... without an airpump, do I
>> need to worry about having enough oxygen in the water? Sorry if this
>> is a silly question.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
> If the filter causes surface turbulance, you usually don't need an
> airstone.
======================
I never felt Aquaclears caused enough surface turbulence as the water goes
down and forward. I have airstones in the tanks that house goldfish, but
not for the platys.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[dc]

"NetMax" > wrote in news:SvWBf.13781$ft2.214363
@news20.bellglobal.com:

>> Canister filters are the best for freshwater without question.
>
> Now a bold statement like that just invites comment ;~).
>
> How's your German? This design (Hamburg Matt filter) has a lot of
> advantages going for it.
> http://www.tuttas.de/aquaristik/konstruktion.htm

Neat, but a DIY like that is not always practical for a lot of setups.

I'd happily use something like it on a group of tanks at the store in
tandem with a sump for cost effective uninterrupted biological filtration,
but it is far too visible for me to ever want to use in one of my show
tanks. I like my own equipment to be as discreet as possible.

I can't imagine a big foam block being as effective and enduring at
breaking down waste as a tall canister packed with ehfimech/substrat and
floss.

[NetMax]

"dc" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > wrote in news:SvWBf.13781$ft2.214363
> @news20.bellglobal.com:
>
>>> Canister filters are the best for freshwater without question.
>>
>> Now a bold statement like that just invites comment ;~).
>>
>> How's your German? This design (Hamburg Matt filter) has a lot of
>> advantages going for it.
>> http://www.tuttas.de/aquaristik/konstruktion.htm
>
> Neat, but a DIY like that is not always practical for a lot of setups.
>
> I'd happily use something like it on a group of tanks at the store in
> tandem with a sump for cost effective uninterrupted biological filtration,
> but it is far too visible for me to ever want to use in one of my show
> tanks. I like my own equipment to be as discreet as possible.
>
> I can't imagine a big foam block being as effective and enduring at
> breaking down waste as a tall canister packed with ehfimech/substrat and
> floss.


I couldn't say for certain, but I suspect that a large enough sponge filter
(ie: a matt across the back of the tank) would be superior in several
regards, particularly in uniform flow (higher face contact), in biological
filtration (which occurs better at slower flow rates than we use in filter
systems), at mechanical filtration (spread uniformity means detritus
dissolves into the water column faster) and the design is relatively immune
to power failures (whereas canisters go anaerobic fairly quickly). I
suspect canister filter media is more specialized to compensate for design
compromises associated with their size and flow rates, rather than the media
doing something significantly better than can be done through other methods.
Truly just my opinion though, which I'm putting to the test with my next
set-up.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Larry Blanchard]

Koi-lo wrote:

> I'm wondering if a worn or cocked impeller causes the vibration that
> makes
> some of them rattle. I removed all covers a few years ago so mine are
> extremely quiet.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for rattles, but my AquaClears have
rattled since the day they were bought and have kept it up for over a
year. I suspect it's just loose manufacturing tolerances.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Koi-lo]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if a worn or cocked impeller causes the vibration that
>> makes
>> some of them rattle. I removed all covers a few years ago so mine are
>> extremely quiet.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of reasons for rattles, but my AquaClears have
> rattled since the day they were bought and have kept it up for over a
> year. I suspect it's just loose manufacturing tolerances.
========================
This is probably true. The only gripe I have against Aquaclears is about
1/2 of them will not restart if we have a power outage. They'll get hot and
just sit there until I poke the impeller to get them started (spinning)
again...... :-(
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[dc]

"NetMax" > wrote in
:

> I couldn't say for certain, but I suspect that a large enough sponge
> filter (ie: a matt across the back of the tank) would be superior in
> several regards, particularly in uniform flow (higher face contact),
> in biological filtration (which occurs better at slower flow rates
> than we use in filter systems), at mechanical filtration (spread


Eheims have a slower flow rate than most other canisters for exactly this
reason. Most other canisters try to make-up for their higher flow rate by
layering sponges upon sponges, which always need replacing or cleaning.


> go anaerobic fairly quickly). I suspect canister filter media is more
> specialized to compensate for design compromises associated with their
> size and flow rates, rather than the media doing something
> significantly better than can be done through other methods. Truly


The Eheim filter media consists of two pre-bio filter stages to prevent
clogging of the main media. The biological media itself either consists of
spun glass or extremely fine quarts granules depending on how much you want
to spend on it. The surface area on this stuff is simply enormous and
allows it to trap a huge amount of fine debris while supporting an enormous
biological culture.


Sponges eventually clog, even very large ones, and need to be cleaned.
Maintenance on my Eheims consists basically of replacing the fine filter
floss once a month, and replacing about 30% of the bio media twice a year.
The bio media never actually gets that saturated with waste since it's so
good at breaking stuff down, but it's just good to provide a thriving
biological culture with fresh room to grow every now and then.


> just my opinion though, which I'm putting to the test with my next
> set-up.


Mine is just that too. Everyone has their own in this hobby. It's neat to
hear about what other options people have come up with.

[Richard Sexton]

In article om>,
David > wrote:
>I am working on setting up a 20 Gallon and a 29 Gallon tank. In the
>past I have always used an undergravel filter with an aquaclear on the
>back.
>
>If I've get a biowheel or something along those lines, do I need to
>even have an undergravel filter? And if I don't need the UGF, do I
>need the air pump for anything? I'd like to avoid the airpump due to
>the noise. I've seen the Pengiun brands and they claim to do chemcial,
>bio, and mechanical filtration. Isn't this the best of both worlds?
>
>Any thoughts would be appreciated!
>

Eh. The more filtration the better. I'd use both.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>I'm seriously considering a powerhead and a sponge filter on my next
>tank. With all the live plants that should be enough and I can direct
>the current, which I can't do with my AquaClears. Any comments?

I use sponge filters everywhere. I have one tank with a fluval, which
I hate, it's probably going back to a sponge filter - I have dozens
of the things. For a big (60 gal) tank I'll use 3, but that's
all the filtration I'll use. I have a coupe of inside corner
boz filters - Marineland bubble ups, mostly I think, for
sentimental reasons :-)

Go for it.
--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
dc > wrote:
>"NetMax" > wrote in news:SvWBf.13781$ft2.214363
:
>
>>> Canister filters are the best for freshwater without question.
>>
>> Now a bold statement like that just invites comment ;~).
>>
>> How's your German? This design (Hamburg Matt filter) has a lot of
>> advantages going for it.
>> http://www.tuttas.de/aquaristik/konstruktion.htm
>
>Neat, but a DIY like that is not always practical for a lot of setups.
>
>I'd happily use something like it on a group of tanks at the store in
>tandem with a sump for cost effective uninterrupted biological filtration,
>but it is far too visible for me to ever want to use in one of my show
>tanks. I like my own equipment to be as discreet as possible.

Stick a big plant or some rocks ow wood in front of it.

>I can't imagine a big foam block being as effective and enduring at
>breaking down waste as a tall canister packed with ehfimech/substrat and
>floss.

Two things make up a filter: water flow and amount of filter substrate.
This thing wins hands down over all but ther largest and most extreme
of canister filters. You guys need to get out more. :-)

In North America we as aquarists are I think spoiled; we march into a petshop
lonk down a credit card for a tank and bunch of plastic made in Taiwan or
italy and call it a day.

Look at older German books, especially killi books. The not so old Barrons
book by Stefan Hellner has a design for an inside filter made from a margerine
tub with a funnel placed in it spout up. An airline is placed in the funnel
(under the wide end not through the spout and the tub is filled with
pea gravel. Presto, a filter. That works. Really.

Next step would be to build a false inside panel to create a 1" chamber that
you can fill with gravel as a filter substrate. Looking at the URL
referenced above, I thought that's what they had done too but I see it's
just a cork background. Ah well.

An inside sponge insert as shown is the perfect compliment to such a filter
design. Good call; I have 4 400L tanks to set up this year (did I mention
construction permits?) and will probably give it a go on these now-dry tanks
as they're already plumbed for a sump and have overflow boxes.

What also comes to mind is two inside chamber, one for substrate one for
airlifts, made from glass. Should look pretty good and be a decent way to
see what kind of flow you're getting.

As for cannister filters being the best for anything, they have their
place, around here it's mostly in a box on a shelf. They tend to suck
up fry and eat them; restrict the intake so they don't and they clog.
I hate the plumbing. I hate the noise and meltdown when they run dry.
There have been lots of them over the years some through here and I
still use sponge filters. Small ones, big ones, sometimes several of
them.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>Sponges eventually clog, even very large ones, and need to be cleaned.

Stick a siphon hose against them and thick brown clay-like crud comes off
them. I just fgured this out very recently.

Twice a year I'll pull the sponges off - if I remember - and rinse them
and putthem back. I don't mind doing this.

tearing apart an Eheim or worse, a fluval? Oh pleae... can I just stick
white hot needles in my eyes instead? This is not something I look forward too.

>Maintenance on my Eheims consists basically of replacing the fine filter
>floss once a month, and replacing about 30% of the bio media twice a year.

Sucks if you have than one tank.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> dc > wrote:
>>"NetMax" > wrote in news:SvWBf.13781$ft2.214363
:
<snip>

> As for cannister filters being the best for anything, they have their
> place, around here it's mostly in a box on a shelf. They tend to suck
> up fry and eat them; restrict the intake so they don't and they clog.
> I hate the plumbing. I hate the noise and meltdown when they run dry.
> There have been lots of them over the years some through here and I
> still use sponge filters. Small ones, big ones, sometimes several of
> them.

For someone who appreciates sponge filters.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/diy_projects/sculpture2/Figure04.jpg
Powerhead with quad sponge set-up for a 120g (being built into the back of a
structure).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net