Building a tank...

[Sean]

Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom tank?
Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to contruct
a tank that is about 300Gs...

Sean

[Roy]

Pretty serious tank...Acrylic or glass? Neither is really hard to
work with.

There are some good online resources with glass and acrylic thickness
calculators on them to give a guide on thickness according to height
and width and such....Acrylics tend to have the top euro bracing when
they get up that large...

If dealing with glass then just some good silicone sealant is all
thats required for assembly once it cut, Acrylic is going to need what
referred to as solvent to make the joints. Weldon or IPS are two
typical manufacturers for this solvent, and what you will probably
need is Weldon (or IPS equiv) #4 and Weldon #16. Weldon #4 is a water
thin solvent that is wicked / flowed into the joints. Its necessary to
hold the panels apart with pins or other shims or wires so it can have
some setup time, then pull those pins and let it settle into the
softened acrylic. YOu also need a good way to cut the acrylic....such
as a table saw and carbide tipped blade, and also a means to smooth
the edges prior to solvent welding them, which is usually a router and
carbide cutter, or a planer will also work...Scraps of plywood or PVC
pipe and fittings are handy to make into jigs to hold panels in place
while either solvent welding or applying silicone. Any ideas on your
dimensions and choice of materials? If acrylic make sure to use cell
cast only, not extruded acrylic. If glass, have you considered low
iron glass....called Starfire.....Its clear as water..Regular glass is
not as clear as yu think it is. Acrylic is actually clearer than
standard glass, and Starfire is even clearer....May not be too much of
an issue but its still something to consider if going glass.

I made a 320 gal acrylic already, or should say started on it late
last year, but its not yet finished.....


On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:37:36 GMT, "Sean"
> wrote:
>><>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom tank?
>><>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to contruct
>><>a tank that is about 300Gs...
>><>
>><>Sean
>><>

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[NetMax]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
> tank? Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking
> to contruct a tank that is about 300Gs...
>
> Sean

For that size, you might be thinking of going with a plywood tank. This
means only one piece of glass or acrylic and no jigs to hold things
together. It also means some carpentry and sealing, so it depends on
what you're comfortable with. I have links on my site (hopefully not
all are outdated, else let me know and I'll shake some more out of my
bookmarks).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Sean]

I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about half the
weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about 8 feet long and
about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet high (floor to ceiling).
This may be well beyond 300Gs, I don't know (that's why I was asking about
the thickness calcs and stuff). Basically the tank is gonna be the main
reason for a room in my house. It is being used for nothing else now so why
not up the house's value ;)... Thanks for the info on the sealants and
blades. Any links to thickness calcs for acrylic would be great and also
water weight calcs...I'm not having much luck myself.

Sean


"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> Pretty serious tank...Acrylic or glass? Neither is really hard to
> work with.
>
> There are some good online resources with glass and acrylic thickness
> calculators on them to give a guide on thickness according to height
> and width and such....Acrylics tend to have the top euro bracing when
> they get up that large...
>
> If dealing with glass then just some good silicone sealant is all
> thats required for assembly once it cut, Acrylic is going to need what
> referred to as solvent to make the joints. Weldon or IPS are two
> typical manufacturers for this solvent, and what you will probably
> need is Weldon (or IPS equiv) #4 and Weldon #16. Weldon #4 is a water
> thin solvent that is wicked / flowed into the joints. Its necessary to
> hold the panels apart with pins or other shims or wires so it can have
> some setup time, then pull those pins and let it settle into the
> softened acrylic. YOu also need a good way to cut the acrylic....such
> as a table saw and carbide tipped blade, and also a means to smooth
> the edges prior to solvent welding them, which is usually a router and
> carbide cutter, or a planer will also work...Scraps of plywood or PVC
> pipe and fittings are handy to make into jigs to hold panels in place
> while either solvent welding or applying silicone. Any ideas on your
> dimensions and choice of materials? If acrylic make sure to use cell
> cast only, not extruded acrylic. If glass, have you considered low
> iron glass....called Starfire.....Its clear as water..Regular glass is
> not as clear as yu think it is. Acrylic is actually clearer than
> standard glass, and Starfire is even clearer....May not be too much of
> an issue but its still something to consider if going glass.
>
> I made a 320 gal acrylic already, or should say started on it late
> last year, but its not yet finished.....
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:37:36 GMT, "Sean"
> > wrote:
>>><>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
>>>tank?
>>><>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to
>>>contruct
>>><>a tank that is about 300Gs...
>>><>
>>><>Sean
>>><>
>
> --
> \\\|///
> ( @ @ )
> -----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------
>
>
> oooO
> ---------( )----Oooo----------------
> \ ( ( )
> \_) ) /
> (_/
> The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Sean]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about half the
>weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about 8 feet long
>and about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet high (floor to
>ceiling). This may be well beyond 300Gs, I don't know (that's why I was
>asking about the thickness calcs and stuff). Basically the tank is gonna
>be the main reason for a room in my house. It is being used for nothing
>else now so why not up the house's value ;)... Thanks for the info on the
>sealants and blades. Any links to thickness calcs for acrylic would be
>great and also water weight calcs...I'm not having much luck myself.
>
> Sean
>
>
> "Roy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pretty serious tank...Acrylic or glass? Neither is really hard to
>> work with.
>>
>> There are some good online resources with glass and acrylic thickness
>> calculators on them to give a guide on thickness according to height
>> and width and such....Acrylics tend to have the top euro bracing when
>> they get up that large...
>>
>> If dealing with glass then just some good silicone sealant is all
>> thats required for assembly once it cut, Acrylic is going to need what
>> referred to as solvent to make the joints. Weldon or IPS are two
>> typical manufacturers for this solvent, and what you will probably
>> need is Weldon (or IPS equiv) #4 and Weldon #16. Weldon #4 is a water
>> thin solvent that is wicked / flowed into the joints. Its necessary to
>> hold the panels apart with pins or other shims or wires so it can have
>> some setup time, then pull those pins and let it settle into the
>> softened acrylic. YOu also need a good way to cut the acrylic....such
>> as a table saw and carbide tipped blade, and also a means to smooth
>> the edges prior to solvent welding them, which is usually a router and
>> carbide cutter, or a planer will also work...Scraps of plywood or PVC
>> pipe and fittings are handy to make into jigs to hold panels in place
>> while either solvent welding or applying silicone. Any ideas on your
>> dimensions and choice of materials? If acrylic make sure to use cell
>> cast only, not extruded acrylic. If glass, have you considered low
>> iron glass....called Starfire.....Its clear as water..Regular glass is
>> not as clear as yu think it is. Acrylic is actually clearer than
>> standard glass, and Starfire is even clearer....May not be too much of
>> an issue but its still something to consider if going glass.
>>
>> I made a 320 gal acrylic already, or should say started on it late
>> last year, but its not yet finished.....

Sorry, top posted.

Sean

[Charles]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:39:31 GMT, "Sean"
> wrote:

>I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about half the
>weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about 8 feet long and
>about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet high (floor to ceiling).
>This may be well beyond 300Gs, I don't know (that's why I was asking about
>the thickness calcs and stuff). Basically the tank is gonna be the main
>reason for a room in my house. It is being used for nothing else now so why
>not up the house's value ;)... Thanks for the info on the sealants and
>blades. Any links to thickness calcs for acrylic would be great and also
>water weight calcs...I'm not having much luck myself.
>
>Sean
>
>
I make that to be about 1735 gallons

I generally guess about 10 pounds per gallon to account for water,
tank, substrate, whatever else is in there.
some reading:


http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytanksrefugiums/

http://www.duboisi.com/diy/diyglossary.htm

[Sean]

> I make that to be about 1735 gallons
>
> I generally guess about 10 pounds per gallon to account for water,
> tank, substrate, whatever else is in there.
> some reading:
>
>
> http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytanksrefugiums/
>
> http://www.duboisi.com/diy/diyglossary.htm

Thanks for the links...a lot of useful info found there. How did you come
to the amount of 1735 gallons? Is there a formula you used or are you just
familiar with tanks of this size?

Sean

[Fishman]

I calculate just under 1200 gal. (1196)

At 10 lbs per gallon (which may be low considering all the complimentary
equipment and supplies) that would be 12000lbs over a footprint of 32sqft.
This is 375 lbs per sqft. That's a lot of weight and unless you're on a
concrete slab basement, I would seriously consider some shoring up.

1 gallon of water occupies 231 cubic inches. Granted the entire volume
would not be water. Gravel and rock would take up volume as well, however,
they have a higher density than water and would weigh more per unit area.

If you're considering a multiple side viewing of the tank, you might do
better to have it custom built by a reputable company. A tank that size
would be very expensive but they may even have warranties.

Fishman


"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about half
the
> weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about 8 feet long
and
> about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet high (floor to ceiling).
> This may be well beyond 300Gs, I don't know (that's why I was asking about
> the thickness calcs and stuff). Basically the tank is gonna be the main
> reason for a room in my house. It is being used for nothing else now so
why
> not up the house's value ;)... Thanks for the info on the sealants and
> blades. Any links to thickness calcs for acrylic would be great and also
> water weight calcs...I'm not having much luck myself.
>
> Sean
>
>
> "Roy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Pretty serious tank...Acrylic or glass? Neither is really hard to
> > work with.
> >
> > There are some good online resources with glass and acrylic thickness
> > calculators on them to give a guide on thickness according to height
> > and width and such....Acrylics tend to have the top euro bracing when
> > they get up that large...
> >
> > If dealing with glass then just some good silicone sealant is all
> > thats required for assembly once it cut, Acrylic is going to need what
> > referred to as solvent to make the joints. Weldon or IPS are two
> > typical manufacturers for this solvent, and what you will probably
> > need is Weldon (or IPS equiv) #4 and Weldon #16. Weldon #4 is a water
> > thin solvent that is wicked / flowed into the joints. Its necessary to
> > hold the panels apart with pins or other shims or wires so it can have
> > some setup time, then pull those pins and let it settle into the
> > softened acrylic. YOu also need a good way to cut the acrylic....such
> > as a table saw and carbide tipped blade, and also a means to smooth
> > the edges prior to solvent welding them, which is usually a router and
> > carbide cutter, or a planer will also work...Scraps of plywood or PVC
> > pipe and fittings are handy to make into jigs to hold panels in place
> > while either solvent welding or applying silicone. Any ideas on your
> > dimensions and choice of materials? If acrylic make sure to use cell
> > cast only, not extruded acrylic. If glass, have you considered low
> > iron glass....called Starfire.....Its clear as water..Regular glass is
> > not as clear as yu think it is. Acrylic is actually clearer than
> > standard glass, and Starfire is even clearer....May not be too much of
> > an issue but its still something to consider if going glass.
> >
> > I made a 320 gal acrylic already, or should say started on it late
> > last year, but its not yet finished.....
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:37:36 GMT, "Sean"
> > > wrote:
> >>><>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
> >>>tank?
> >>><>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to
> >>>contruct
> >>><>a tank that is about 300Gs...
> >>><>
> >>><>Sean
> >>><>
> >
> > --
> > \\\|///
> > ( @ @ )
> > -----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------
> >
> >
> > oooO
> > ---------( )----Oooo----------------
> > \ ( ( )
> > \_) ) /
> > (_/
> > The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....
>
>

[Charles]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:24:09 GMT, "Sean"
> wrote:

>
>> I make that to be about 1735 gallons
>>
>> I generally guess about 10 pounds per gallon to account for water,
>> tank, substrate, whatever else is in there.
>> some reading:
>>
>>
>> http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytanksrefugiums/
>>
>> http://www.duboisi.com/diy/diyglossary.htm
>
>Thanks for the links...a lot of useful info found there. How did you come
>to the amount of 1735 gallons? Is there a formula you used or are you just
>familiar with tanks of this size?
>
>Sean
>


dimentions (which I forgot now)

in feet, 8X5X4=160

times 7.48 gallons per cubic foot= 1196

must have hit the wrong key on the calculator the first time.
a different number this time

Anyway, the dimentions times 7.48 gives gallons.

Or convert everything to inches, multiply it out, then divide by 231
to get gallons.

[Sean]

"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:24:09 GMT, "Sean"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>> I make that to be about 1735 gallons
>>>
>>> I generally guess about 10 pounds per gallon to account for water,
>>> tank, substrate, whatever else is in there.
>>> some reading:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytanksrefugiums/
>>>
>>> http://www.duboisi.com/diy/diyglossary.htm
>>
>>Thanks for the links...a lot of useful info found there. How did you come
>>to the amount of 1735 gallons? Is there a formula you used or are you
>>just
>>familiar with tanks of this size?
>>
>>Sean
>>
>
>
> dimentions (which I forgot now)
>
> in feet, 8X5X4=160
>
> times 7.48 gallons per cubic foot= 1196
>
> must have hit the wrong key on the calculator the first time.
> a different number this time
>
> Anyway, the dimentions times 7.48 gives gallons.
>
> Or convert everything to inches, multiply it out, then divide by 231
> to get gallons.

Great thanks...been a great help.

Sean

[Charles]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:37:36 GMT, "Sean"
> wrote:

>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom tank?
>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to contruct
>a tank that is about 300Gs...
>
>Sean
>


Someone in another group posted this link

http://www.oregonreef.com/

[Sean]

"Fishman" > wrote in message
news:K_jCf.27555$AV.20978@trnddc07...
>I calculate just under 1200 gal. (1196)
>
> At 10 lbs per gallon (which may be low considering all the complimentary
> equipment and supplies) that would be 12000lbs over a footprint of 32sqft.
> This is 375 lbs per sqft. That's a lot of weight and unless you're on a
> concrete slab basement, I would seriously consider some shoring up.
>
> 1 gallon of water occupies 231 cubic inches. Granted the entire volume
> would not be water. Gravel and rock would take up volume as well,
> however,
> they have a higher density than water and would weigh more per unit area.
>
> If you're considering a multiple side viewing of the tank, you might do
> better to have it custom built by a reputable company. A tank that size
> would be very expensive but they may even have warranties.
>
> Fishman

I want to build it myself...its not something that I am going to jump into,
I'm going to take my time and learn as I go. A fun project if you will. It
will be in the room not used in the basement of the house (concrete base).
Basically a TV area with a sweet tank behind the couch, kinda sunk into the
wall. I choose this room because it doesn't need the floor re-enforced and
its away from any sizable amount of sunlight. It will be accessible from
the other side of the area as it is a different room just seperated by the
tank and wall that is used for laundry. I can do the clean up and have any
ugliness tucked away in there ;)

Sean

[Sean]

> Someone in another group posted this link
>
> http://www.oregonreef.com/
>


Nice. My tank is going to be freshwater. Saves a pile of money. Basically
I want to re-create a section of a junglescape river scene. Piranha are
going to be the main fish with some frogs and other fish from the same type
of aquascape living amoung the Piranha. I know the Piranha are going to nip
the fins of the other fish but that's what I am trying to do, re-create the
river in my house. If I can I am going to try and have a large number of
aquatic bugs too. The list goes on.

Sean

[Just_Me]

Sean > wrote in message
...
> Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
tank?
> Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to
contruct
> a tank that is about 300Gs...
>
> Sean
>
>
Here's a few link that I've looked at, hope they help.

http://www.garf.org/news22p2.html

http://www.petfish.net/articles/Do-It-Yourself/tank-diy1.php

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_acrylic_aquarium.php

http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/diy/

[Koi-lo]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> Nice. My tank is going to be freshwater. Saves a pile of money.
> Basically I want to re-create a section of a junglescape river scene.
> Piranha are going to be the main fish with some frogs and other fish from
> the same type of aquascape living amoung the Piranha. I know the Piranha
> are going to nip the fins of the other fish but that's what I am trying to
> do, re-create the river in my house. If I can I am going to try and have
> a large number of aquatic bugs too. The list goes on.
=======================
Check on those Piranhas as I believe it's illegal to keep them as pets in
your country as well as mine.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
http://www.technomom.com/writing/headers.shtml
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jürgen Exner]

Sean wrote:
> I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about
> half the weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about
> 8 feet long and about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet
> high (floor to ceiling). This may be well beyond 300Gs,
[...]
> water weight calcs....

Well, that part is simple: for all practical purposes 1 liter of fresh water
has a weight of 1 kg.

So let's do it in ISO units: 8'x4'x5' is about 2.4mx1.2mx1.5m = 4.32 cubic
meter

In other words your are dealing with a tank of about 4.32 tons of
freshwater, total weight probably somewhere near 5 tons. Sal****er even a
bit more. Or converted back 4230 liter are roughly 1100-1200 gallons.

I suggest you contact an architect because unless you are living in a former
factory your floors are certainly not designed to take that kind weight.

Good luck

jue

[Sean]

> Check on those Piranhas as I believe it's illegal to keep them as pets in
> your country as well as mine.
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...

Piranhas are legal in Canada, at least where I live. I live in Newfoundland
and I can tell you the water does not get near to anything that a Piranha
can survive in for more then a few minutes. I'm talking 8-10c celcius tops
in the summer. There may be a few places in BC or Onterio that have some
ponds that would support them for a month or so but thats about it.

Sean

[Sean]

"Jürgen Exner" > wrote in message
news:%SsCf.25$JO5.13@trnddc04...
> Sean wrote:
>> I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about
>> half the weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about
>> 8 feet long and about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet
>> high (floor to ceiling). This may be well beyond 300Gs,
> [...]
>> water weight calcs....
>
> Well, that part is simple: for all practical purposes 1 liter of fresh
> water has a weight of 1 kg.
>
> So let's do it in ISO units: 8'x4'x5' is about 2.4mx1.2mx1.5m = 4.32 cubic
> meter
>
> In other words your are dealing with a tank of about 4.32 tons of
> freshwater, total weight probably somewhere near 5 tons. Sal****er even a
> bit more. Or converted back 4230 liter are roughly 1100-1200 gallons.
>
> I suggest you contact an architect because unless you are living in a
> former factory your floors are certainly not designed to take that kind
> weight.


No need. The house I am living in is 3 years old. It has an infloor
heating system all through the concrete foundation. To allow for this the
concrete had to be extra thick. In total (according to the contractor) its
about 2 and a half feet thick. If that won't hold the weight, I can't
imagine what one would have to do.

Sean

[Koi-lo]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Check on those Piranhas as I believe it's illegal to keep them as pets in
>> your country as well as mine.
>> --
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>
> Piranhas are legal in Canada, at least where I live. I live in
> Newfoundland and I can tell you the water does not get near to anything
> that a Piranha can survive in for more then a few minutes. I'm talking
> 8-10c celcius tops in the summer. There may be a few places in BC or
> Onterio that have some ponds that would support them for a month or so but
> thats about it.
============================
Keep children away from your tank and ENJOY! :-))
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
http://www.technomom.com/writing/headers.shtml
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[spiral_72]

1200 gallons....... hehehehe
At 4 foot deep, make sure you account for the cost of scuba gear in the
"investment". Ya' gotta clean it sometime!

[Sean]

============================
> Keep children away from your tank and ENJOY! :-))
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:

Oi, I will.

Sean

[Sean]

"spiral_72" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> 1200 gallons....... hehehehe
> At 4 foot deep, make sure you account for the cost of scuba gear in the
> "investment". Ya' gotta clean it sometime!


No biggie. I don't mind gettin in with the fish.

Sean

[Gill Passman]

Sean wrote:
> "spiral_72" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>1200 gallons....... hehehehe
>>At 4 foot deep, make sure you account for the cost of scuba gear in the
>>"investment". Ya' gotta clean it sometime!
>
>
>
> No biggie. I don't mind gettin in with the fish.
>
> Sean
>
>
I'd be a little hesitant if it was getting in with Pirhanas - eek

[NetMax]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Someone in another group posted this link
>>
>> http://www.oregonreef.com/
>>
>
>
> Nice. My tank is going to be freshwater. Saves a pile of money.
> Basically I want to re-create a section of a junglescape river scene.
> Piranha are going to be the main fish with some frogs and other fish
> from the same type of aquascape living amoung the Piranha. I know the
> Piranha are going to nip the fins of the other fish but that's what I
> am trying to do, re-create the river in my house. If I can I am going
> to try and have a large number of aquatic bugs too. The list goes on.
>
> Sean


If piranhas will be your main fish, then you'll probably find your other
fish choices severely limited. Piranhas do not 'nip' fins. They assume
a position above and behind the victim and lunge, turning their body 90
degrees so that they can wrap their teeth around the adipose fin (or the
area behind the dorsal fin). The will then do a quick twist and swim
away with a chunk of fish the size of their jaw. If their prey take to
the upper waters, then the Piranhas repeat the behaviour aimed at the
anal fin. Whatever fish you have, if they survive the assaults (and
large fish frequently do) they will have chunks missing behind the dorsal
fin (even losing the adipose and dorsal fin completely), or chunks
missing underneath them (though as soon as the intestines start pouring
out, they don't usually live longer than about 2 weeks).

Another minor point, is that humans are not compatible with deep Piranha
tanks which require people to climb in to do maintenance. Do you think
they are just going to watch you? Are you aware what their eventual size
is? (which they *will* achieve in a 1200g tank). Of course you'll be
feeding them a lot of meat to get them to that size ($$$), and if you
don't, they will simply eat each other (problem solved). I think you'll
have a lot of research ahead of you, and it certainly sounds like an
interesting project.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Sean]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Sean wrote:
>> "spiral_72" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>>1200 gallons....... hehehehe
>>>At 4 foot deep, make sure you account for the cost of scuba gear in the
>>>"investment". Ya' gotta clean it sometime!
>>
>>
>>
>> No biggie. I don't mind gettin in with the fish.
>>
>> Sean
> I'd be a little hesitant if it was getting in with Pirhanas - eek

Why? People who live near them swim in the rivers with them all the time.
Children swim with the fishes literally. They don't see us as a food source
unless they are straved to the point where anything is food, even each
other.

Sean

[CanadianCray]

Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a human.

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>> Someone in another group posted this link
>>>
>>> http://www.oregonreef.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nice. My tank is going to be freshwater. Saves a pile of money.
>> Basically I want to re-create a section of a junglescape river scene.
>> Piranha are going to be the main fish with some frogs and other fish from
>> the same type of aquascape living amoung the Piranha. I know the Piranha
>> are going to nip the fins of the other fish but that's what I am trying
>> to do, re-create the river in my house. If I can I am going to try and
>> have a large number of aquatic bugs too. The list goes on.
>>
>> Sean
>
>
> If piranhas will be your main fish, then you'll probably find your other
> fish choices severely limited. Piranhas do not 'nip' fins. They assume a
> position above and behind the victim and lunge, turning their body 90
> degrees so that they can wrap their teeth around the adipose fin (or the
> area behind the dorsal fin). The will then do a quick twist and swim away
> with a chunk of fish the size of their jaw. If their prey take to the
> upper waters, then the Piranhas repeat the behaviour aimed at the anal
> fin. Whatever fish you have, if they survive the assaults (and large fish
> frequently do) they will have chunks missing behind the dorsal fin (even
> losing the adipose and dorsal fin completely), or chunks missing
> underneath them (though as soon as the intestines start pouring out, they
> don't usually live longer than about 2 weeks).
>
> Another minor point, is that humans are not compatible with deep Piranha
> tanks which require people to climb in to do maintenance. Do you think
> they are just going to watch you? Are you aware what their eventual size
> is? (which they *will* achieve in a 1200g tank). Of course you'll be
> feeding them a lot of meat to get them to that size ($$$), and if you
> don't, they will simply eat each other (problem solved). I think you'll
> have a lot of research ahead of you, and it certainly sounds like an
> interesting project.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[CanadianCray]

I have had tankfulls of Piranha & always cleaned the tank with my hands &
arms in the tanks. They never came near me.

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>> Someone in another group posted this link
>>>
>>> http://www.oregonreef.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nice. My tank is going to be freshwater. Saves a pile of money.
>> Basically I want to re-create a section of a junglescape river scene.
>> Piranha are going to be the main fish with some frogs and other fish from
>> the same type of aquascape living amoung the Piranha. I know the Piranha
>> are going to nip the fins of the other fish but that's what I am trying
>> to do, re-create the river in my house. If I can I am going to try and
>> have a large number of aquatic bugs too. The list goes on.
>>
>> Sean
>
>
> If piranhas will be your main fish, then you'll probably find your other
> fish choices severely limited. Piranhas do not 'nip' fins. They assume a
> position above and behind the victim and lunge, turning their body 90
> degrees so that they can wrap their teeth around the adipose fin (or the
> area behind the dorsal fin). The will then do a quick twist and swim away
> with a chunk of fish the size of their jaw. If their prey take to the
> upper waters, then the Piranhas repeat the behaviour aimed at the anal
> fin. Whatever fish you have, if they survive the assaults (and large fish
> frequently do) they will have chunks missing behind the dorsal fin (even
> losing the adipose and dorsal fin completely), or chunks missing
> underneath them (though as soon as the intestines start pouring out, they
> don't usually live longer than about 2 weeks).
>
> Another minor point, is that humans are not compatible with deep Piranha
> tanks which require people to climb in to do maintenance. Do you think
> they are just going to watch you? Are you aware what their eventual size
> is? (which they *will* achieve in a 1200g tank). Of course you'll be
> feeding them a lot of meat to get them to that size ($$$), and if you
> don't, they will simply eat each other (problem solved). I think you'll
> have a lot of research ahead of you, and it certainly sounds like an
> interesting project.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[Koi-lo]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
> Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a human.
=============
Can that be because they were very well fed pets? I saw a piranha attack on
an adult water buffalo on TV. They took it down in minutes and in no time
at all it was reduced to a skeleton. :-(( I mean even the entrails were
gone!!!
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
http://www.technomom.com/writing/headers.shtml
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Elaine T]

CanadianCray wrote:
> Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a human.
>

But they DO bite and draw blood. I learned that the had way when I
worked in a fish store.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Roy]

I had 3 myself and never ever had a problem. I often had my hand in
the tank with them..........
There is no such lasw as their being illegal to own inthe USA.Its more
a state by state thing....not an overall ban on them by any means.


--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Larry Blanchard]

Gill Passman wrote:

> I'd be a little hesitant if it was getting in with Pirhanas - eek

Years ago I knew a woman who kept pirhanas. She would reach into the
tank and scratch their bellies - they seemed to like it - they even let
me do it.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[NetMax]

They bite! and when it's more than just your hand in there, there's a
lot more of a target.

They are pack animals and quite jittery. It's not hard to shoo them away
in a normal sized tank. Also the smaller their numbers, the less they
are a problem (generally speaking).

In a large tank in larger numbers (>7), they get understandable larger
and bolder. They will still shoo away, but they are much more daring and
quicker to return. The OP wants a 300-1200g river tank with them as the
main fish!

I've read articles where they were kept in larger tanks (ie:200g) and the
owners complained that they could no longer do ordinary maintenance for
the fear of getting bitten, and the larger the fish, the larger the bite.

The OP just has to do some research.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
> Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a
> human.
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Sean" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>> Someone in another group posted this link
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oregonreef.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nice. My tank is going to be freshwater. Saves a pile of money.
>>> Basically I want to re-create a section of a junglescape river scene.
>>> Piranha are going to be the main fish with some frogs and other fish
>>> from the same type of aquascape living amoung the Piranha. I know
>>> the Piranha are going to nip the fins of the other fish but that's
>>> what I am trying to do, re-create the river in my house. If I can I
>>> am going to try and have a large number of aquatic bugs too. The
>>> list goes on.
>>>
>>> Sean
>>
>>
>> If piranhas will be your main fish, then you'll probably find your
>> other fish choices severely limited. Piranhas do not 'nip' fins.
>> They assume a position above and behind the victim and lunge, turning
>> their body 90 degrees so that they can wrap their teeth around the
>> adipose fin (or the area behind the dorsal fin). The will then do a
>> quick twist and swim away with a chunk of fish the size of their jaw.
>> If their prey take to the upper waters, then the Piranhas repeat the
>> behaviour aimed at the anal fin. Whatever fish you have, if they
>> survive the assaults (and large fish frequently do) they will have
>> chunks missing behind the dorsal fin (even losing the adipose and
>> dorsal fin completely), or chunks missing underneath them (though as
>> soon as the intestines start pouring out, they don't usually live
>> longer than about 2 weeks).
>>
>> Another minor point, is that humans are not compatible with deep
>> Piranha tanks which require people to climb in to do maintenance. Do
>> you think they are just going to watch you? Are you aware what their
>> eventual size is? (which they *will* achieve in a 1200g tank). Of
>> course you'll be feeding them a lot of meat to get them to that size
>> ($$$), and if you don't, they will simply eat each other (problem
>> solved). I think you'll have a lot of research ahead of you, and it
>> certainly sounds like an interesting project.
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
>

[Sean]

> If piranhas will be your main fish, then you'll probably find your other
> fish choices severely limited. Piranhas do not 'nip' fins. They assume a
> position above and behind the victim and lunge, turning their body 90
> degrees so that they can wrap their teeth around the adipose fin (or the
> area behind the dorsal fin). The will then do a quick twist and swim away
> with a chunk of fish the size of their jaw. If their prey take to the
> upper waters, then the Piranhas repeat the behaviour aimed at the anal
> fin. Whatever fish you have, if they survive the assaults (and large fish
> frequently do) they will have chunks missing behind the dorsal fin (even
> losing the adipose and dorsal fin completely), or chunks missing
> underneath them (though as soon as the intestines start pouring out, they
> don't usually live longer than about 2 weeks).
>
> Another minor point, is that humans are not compatible with deep Piranha
> tanks which require people to climb in to do maintenance. Do you think
> they are just going to watch you? Are you aware what their eventual size
> is? (which they *will* achieve in a 1200g tank). Of course you'll be
> feeding them a lot of meat to get them to that size ($$$), and if you
> don't, they will simply eat each other (problem solved). I think you'll
> have a lot of research ahead of you, and it certainly sounds like an
> interesting project.



In the wild Piranha nip fins, and also if fed properly. They do kill other
fish and eat them whole(when they are given the chance) but for the most
part they nip the fins if not starved. As for the attacks you are
describing: I have six 5 inch Piranha right now and I have not seen them
attack in the way you are describing. When I put a group of feeder fish
into the tank they indeed do nip the fins of the fish, and the fish actually
last quite a lot longer then one would think (11 days being the longest I
have had 24 fish last). In the local pet stores around here I have stopped
in to pick up feeders and crickets and have seen young guppies (as food for
schools of 12-15 Piranha) that have reached into maturity and even spawn
more guppies. Just about every fish in the tank including the Piranhas
themselves had fins that were in some way or another damaged but nothing
like what you are describing. I have actually had people come over and
expect a blood fest and be utterly disappointed with what they see. I have
left them to get hungry for a few days and they do consume the fish rather
savagely then, although I don't intend to starve them as they are very
aggressive fish and regular feedings do very much calm them.

As for people being compatible: That was not what I had said (meant). What
I said was that they do not view us as a "normal" food source. Why would a
fish decide to bite a large animal that can very well end its life in a
swipe or kick, rather then attacking smaller fish that have almost no
chance? Only humans hunt for sport my friend, animals take the easy way
because its survival. There are a number of documentary's that show the
native peoples who live around rivers (that have huge schools of Piranha
teeming in the waters) swimming and bathing as if there was no more then
trout amongst them. The narrator of the documentary dove into the waters
with the natives and was swimming for quite some time, unmolested by the
Piranha (which when shown through the underwater camera were swimming in
amongst them all over the place). There were literally thousands in the
water with about 20 people and not one person was bitten. And these Piranha
were feeding because the fishermen that the camera man was in the boat
filming with, was using small fish as bait and dragging it in an injured
fashion on top of the water catching Piranha one after the other. Most
Piranha attacks are grossly exaggerated and there are no confirmed reports
of people being eaten by Piranha. When a Piranha does attack a person its
usually because that person is swimming in dams created by the Brazilian
Govt ( I think that's the place) that are popping up everywhere to gain
power and large water sources. These dams are prefect breeding areas for
the Piranha and people are usually bitten because they have been swimming
too close to a nest (Piranhas are very protective parents), and even those
people suffer wounds that any small dog can make look minor in comparison.

As for getting in the tank: The same narrator went to a aquarium in France
where they have a tank of those very same Piranha (200 in total I believe he
said). He donned a mail suit (out of fear and just in case, because you
should never say never) and entered the tank with a 10 pound chunk of sheep
rib. Immediately the Piranha attacked the chunk of meat and not one bit the
narrator. A few bounced into the camera in a frenzy but not even a nip did
he get. They paid him no more mind then if he was an everyday thing (like a
rock) in the tank, some were weary but for the most part he went unnoticed.
And that was in a full frenzy when they are most likely to attack.

As for the size: Of course I am aware of their eventual size. They get to
about a foot and sometimes longer and quite thick, if you catch my meaning.
That's the whole purpose of the large tank, I want them to get to their full
size and hopefully they will breed. Feeding shant be a problem as they
(fish keeping) are about my only money draining habits/pleasure. I have
read many books about these fish and doubt I need to do anymore research,
other then finding out more about the other species of aquatic life that
live with them and how they interact.



Sean

[Sean]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
> Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a human.


Correct. Its fear and ignorance that give these fish the bad reputation.
Nothing more.

Sean

[Sean]

> Can that be because they were very well fed pets? I saw a piranha attack
> on an adult water buffalo on TV. They took it down in minutes and in no
> time at all it was reduced to a skeleton. :-(( I mean even the entrails
> were gone!!!

These Piranha you saw are part of a tourism gimick in Brazil ( I believe
thats the place), somewhere Amazonian anyways. They dam off sections of the
river where they know there a schools of the fish and starve them for many
days. They then lead an unsuspecting victim to the water to drink. And
boom the rumors fly.

Sean

[Sean]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> They bite! and when it's more than just your hand in there, there's a lot
> more of a target.
>
> They are pack animals and quite jittery. It's not hard to shoo them away
> in a normal sized tank. Also the smaller their numbers, the less they are
> a problem (generally speaking).
>
> In a large tank in larger numbers (>7), they get understandable larger and
> bolder. They will still shoo away, but they are much more daring and
> quicker to return. The OP wants a 300-1200g river tank with them as the
> main fish!
>
> I've read articles where they were kept in larger tanks (ie:200g) and the
> owners complained that they could no longer do ordinary maintenance for
> the fear of getting bitten, and the larger the fish, the larger the bite.
>
> The OP just has to do some research.


The OP has done quite a lot already, don't assume my friend. Of course
there are risks but that's why they came up with the word precaution(s).

Sean

[Sean]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
>I have had tankfulls of Piranha & always cleaned the tank with my hands &
>arms in the tanks. They never came near me.


Mine neither. Again, proper feeding routines.

Sean

[Sean]

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>I had 3 myself and never ever had a problem. I often had my hand in
> the tank with them..........
> There is no such lasw as their being illegal to own inthe USA.Its more
> a state by state thing....not an overall ban on them by any means.


Your right about the state laws concerning Piranha. Personally I have
picked fish from the tank by the tail and held them(much like an angler
would in returning a fish to the water) and have had the dreadful event of
getting wet for my need to inspect the gills of a toothy friend.

Sean

[NetMax]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>> If piranhas will be your main fish, then you'll probably find your
>> other fish choices severely limited. Piranhas do not 'nip' fins.
>> They assume a position above and behind the victim and lunge, turning
>> their body 90 degrees so that they can wrap their teeth around the
>> adipose fin (or the area behind the dorsal fin). The will then do a
>> quick twist and swim away with a chunk of fish the size of their jaw.
>> If their prey take to the upper waters, then the Piranhas repeat the
>> behaviour aimed at the anal fin. Whatever fish you have, if they
>> survive the assaults (and large fish frequently do) they will have
>> chunks missing behind the dorsal fin (even losing the adipose and
>> dorsal fin completely), or chunks missing underneath them (though as
>> soon as the intestines start pouring out, they don't usually live
>> longer than about 2 weeks).
>>
>> Another minor point, is that humans are not compatible with deep
>> Piranha tanks which require people to climb in to do maintenance. Do
>> you think they are just going to watch you? Are you aware what their
>> eventual size is? (which they *will* achieve in a 1200g tank). Of
>> course you'll be feeding them a lot of meat to get them to that size
>> ($$$), and if you don't, they will simply eat each other (problem
>> solved). I think you'll have a lot of research ahead of you, and it
>> certainly sounds like an interesting project.
>
>
>
> In the wild Piranha nip fins, and also if fed properly. They do kill
> other fish and eat them whole(when they are given the chance) but for
> the most part they nip the fins if not starved. As for the attacks you
> are describing: I have six 5 inch Piranha right now and I have not seen
> them attack in the way you are describing. When I put a group of
> feeder fish into the tank they indeed do nip the fins of the fish, and
> the fish actually last quite a lot longer then one would think (11 days
> being the longest I have had 24 fish last). In the local pet stores
> around here I have stopped in to pick up feeders and crickets and have
> seen young guppies (as food for schools of 12-15 Piranha) that have
> reached into maturity and even spawn more guppies. Just about every
> fish in the tank including the Piranhas themselves had fins that were
> in some way or another damaged but nothing like what you are
> describing. I have actually had people come over and expect a blood
> fest and be utterly disappointed with what they see. I have left them
> to get hungry for a few days and they do consume the fish rather
> savagely then, although I don't intend to starve them as they are very
> aggressive fish and regular feedings do very much calm them.
>
> As for people being compatible: That was not what I had said (meant).
> What I said was that they do not view us as a "normal" food source.
> Why would a fish decide to bite a large animal that can very well end
> its life in a swipe or kick, rather then attacking smaller fish that
> have almost no chance? Only humans hunt for sport my friend, animals
> take the easy way because its survival. There are a number of
> documentary's that show the native peoples who live around rivers (that
> have huge schools of Piranha teeming in the waters) swimming and
> bathing as if there was no more then trout amongst them. The narrator
> of the documentary dove into the waters with the natives and was
> swimming for quite some time, unmolested by the Piranha (which when
> shown through the underwater camera were swimming in amongst them all
> over the place). There were literally thousands in the water with
> about 20 people and not one person was bitten. And these Piranha were
> feeding because the fishermen that the camera man was in the boat
> filming with, was using small fish as bait and dragging it in an
> injured fashion on top of the water catching Piranha one after the
> other. Most Piranha attacks are grossly exaggerated and there are no
> confirmed reports of people being eaten by Piranha. When a Piranha
> does attack a person its usually because that person is swimming in
> dams created by the Brazilian Govt ( I think that's the place) that are
> popping up everywhere to gain power and large water sources. These
> dams are prefect breeding areas for the Piranha and people are usually
> bitten because they have been swimming too close to a nest (Piranhas
> are very protective parents), and even those people suffer wounds that
> any small dog can make look minor in comparison.
>
> As for getting in the tank: The same narrator went to a aquarium in
> France where they have a tank of those very same Piranha (200 in total
> I believe he said). He donned a mail suit (out of fear and just in
> case, because you should never say never) and entered the tank with a
> 10 pound chunk of sheep rib. Immediately the Piranha attacked the
> chunk of meat and not one bit the narrator. A few bounced into the
> camera in a frenzy but not even a nip did he get. They paid him no
> more mind then if he was an everyday thing (like a rock) in the tank,
> some were weary but for the most part he went unnoticed. And that was
> in a full frenzy when they are most likely to attack.
>
> As for the size: Of course I am aware of their eventual size. They
> get to about a foot and sometimes longer and quite thick, if you catch
> my meaning. That's the whole purpose of the large tank, I want them to
> get to their full size and hopefully they will breed. Feeding shant be
> a problem as they (fish keeping) are about my only money draining
> habits/pleasure. I have read many books about these fish and doubt I
> need to do anymore research, other then finding out more about the
> other species of aquatic life that live with them and how they
> interact.
>
>
>
> Sean


I've never seen a nature show on Piranhas, nor have I lived where they
were indigenous. I have no basis to disagree with your statements on
their behaviour in the wild. Experiences with tank specimens will vary
between set-ups as would be expected, as would the Piranha species . My
comments are based on my limited observations from selling many of these
fish, speaking with the owners and putting together common information
from occasionally coming across articles written by hobbyists. In my
retail Piranha tanks, a missed meal (ie: when we kept the store closed
for a holiday) would mean that I would have fish with missing pieces, in
the locations I described.

My warnings are intended more for the inexperienced who might seek a
quick thrill and not realize that these are long lived, high strung, high
maintenance fish which need lots of room and are expensive to keep fed
properly. I've had to practice this 'speech' with teenagers who would
not have the dedication to care for these fish properly, so I apologise
if I was sounding preachy (I have a tendency to do that anyways ;~).
IMO, these fish are not suitable for the average home aquarium, and are
probably one of the most challenging fish to care for, long term.

In regards to spawning them, you've probably researched this already, but
my understanding was that they needed greater depths to spiral together
while the eggs are being fertilized. Four feet doesn't sound sufficient,
but your information is probably more current than mine.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Larry Blanchard]

NetMax wrote:

> In a large tank in larger numbers (>7), they get understandable larger
> and bolder.**They*will*still*shoo*away,*but*they*are*m uch*more*daring
> and quicker to return.**The*OP*wants*a*300-1200g*river*tank*with*them
> as*the main fish!

Undoubtedly true. The fish I mentioned were in a fairly small (4'?)
tank and there were only three of them.

Come to think of it, since I wasn't interested in fish at that time, I
had only her word, and their general appearance, to say that they were
pirhanas.

IOW, maybe all should disregard my previous post on the subject.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[NetMax]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> In a large tank in larger numbers (>7), they get understandable larger
>> and bolder. They will still shoo away, but they are much more daring
>> and quicker to return. The OP wants a 300-1200g river tank with them
>> as the main fish!
>
> Undoubtedly true. The fish I mentioned were in a fairly small (4'?)
> tank and there were only three of them.
>
> Come to think of it, since I wasn't interested in fish at that time, I
> had only her word, and their general appearance, to say that they were
> pirhanas.
>
> IOW, maybe all should disregard my previous post on the subject.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

lol, but there is enough real variation in experiences to sometimes allow
seemingly contradictory appearances. I think the expression is something
like : "the only thing fish-keepers can all agree on, is that fish need
water, and even that has its exceptions" ;~).

To the uninitiated, the common red belly Pacu
http://www.elmersaquarium.com/image_fish/01%20Pacu_RED_pair.jpg
might pass as a red breasted Piranha.
http://www.natuurinformatie.nl/ndb.wnf/natuurdatabase.nl/i000452.html
except for the teeth ;~)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/02/20/offbeat.london.piranha.reut/
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Eric]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:26:18 -0600, NetMax wrote
(in article >):


> To the uninitiated, the common red belly Pacu
> http://www.elmersaquarium.com/image_fish/01%20Pacu_RED_pair.jpg
> might pass as a red breasted Piranha.
> http://www.natuurinformatie.nl/ndb.wnf/natuurdatabase.nl/i000452.html
> except for the teeth ;~)
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/02/20/offbeat.london.piranha.reut/

Piranha are illegal in Texas since local waters are warm enough that they
might survive if released. There was a recent scare a few years ago when a
local fisherman caught a pacu and reported it a s a piranha.

I don't see what all the fuss was about. The lake where he caught it is chock
full of 'gators, how much worse could a few piranha be?

-E

[Sean]

"Eric" > wrote in message
. sbcglobal.net...
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:26:18 -0600, NetMax wrote
> (in article >):
>
>
>> To the uninitiated, the common red belly Pacu
>> http://www.elmersaquarium.com/image_fish/01%20Pacu_RED_pair.jpg
>> might pass as a red breasted Piranha.
>> http://www.natuurinformatie.nl/ndb.wnf/natuurdatabase.nl/i000452.html
>> except for the teeth ;~)
>> http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/02/20/offbeat.london.piranha.reut/
>
> Piranha are illegal in Texas since local waters are warm enough that they
> might survive if released. There was a recent scare a few years ago when a
> local fisherman caught a pacu and reported it a s a piranha.
>
> I don't see what all the fuss was about. The lake where he caught it is
> chock
> full of 'gators, how much worse could a few piranha be?
>
> -E


The danger lies in the fact that its a species that was not meant to be
there, and could be the detriment of all the other fish and wildlife that
live in or near the body of water.

Sean

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Sean > wrote:
>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom tank?
>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to contruct
>a tank that is about 300Gs...

Step 1: See if you can get the glass cheaper than just buying a tank. Silicone
is the only adhesive you can use.

Acrylic is easier to work with but even more expensive.

I'd buy a good ued tank. What reason would you have to make one
that big yourself?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[CanadianCray]

I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I know
they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find it
is home made.


"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Sean > wrote:
>>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
>>tank?
>>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to
>>contruct
>>a tank that is about 300Gs...
>
> Step 1: See if you can get the glass cheaper than just buying a tank.
> Silicone
> is the only adhesive you can use.
>
> Acrylic is easier to work with but even more expensive.
>
> I'd buy a good ued tank. What reason would you have to make one
> that big yourself?
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article <%SsCf.25$JO5.13@trnddc04>,
Jürgen Exner > wrote:
>Sean wrote:
>> I would like for it to be acrylic as it is much stronger and about
>> half the weight of glass. I was thinking about building a tank about
>> 8 feet long and about 4 feet deep (front to back) by about 5 feet
>> high (floor to ceiling). This may be well beyond 300Gs,
>[...]
>> water weight calcs....
>
>Well, that part is simple: for all practical purposes 1 liter of fresh water
>has a weight of 1 kg.
>
>So let's do it in ISO units: 8'x4'x5' is about 2.4mx1.2mx1.5m = 4.32 cubic
>meter
>
>In other words your are dealing with a tank of about 4.32 tons of

It's not the weight that's gonna get you it's the cost of the metierials
to build a 5 foot tall tank. Look at all the big tanks you see, 100, 200,
300+ gallons. Notice thet're not that tall? 2' max? That's cause the
thickness of the glass/acrylic you use is a function of the hight of the
tank. Five feet talk is absurd for an aquarium made freom glass or acrylic
you'd ned 1" glass about $100 a square inch or something stupid.

Best thing to do I think wold be to buuid this monster tank out of
marine plywood into the house and only use acrylic on the front
viewing glass.

I've seen this done, as a kid a guy in Hamilton Ont. named Stan
Winwood had marine setups in his house in the early 1970s
including one 800 tank built into the wall the same as
described above. Sweeeeet...


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
CanadianCray > wrote:
>Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a human.

There was an article in TFH in I think the 80s or 90s where Axelrod
too pictures of a school of Pirana as he swam alongside them. He
said this they're fine and unless it's the 2-3 week period when the
rains start up again after a dry seaosn then no problem.

But they'll strip the meat off your bones if you try this in that
period just after the rains start.

Just ask the natives there. Not surprisingly they have this all
figure oud.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Sean]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Sean > wrote:
>>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
>>tank?
>>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to
>>contruct
>>a tank that is about 300Gs...
>
> Step 1: See if you can get the glass cheaper than just buying a tank.
> Silicone
> is the only adhesive you can use.

I won't be using glass, it's no good for what I want.

> Acrylic is easier to work with but even more expensive.

That's what I am going with.

> I'd buy a good ued tank. What reason would you have to make one
> that big yourself?

My reasons are basically a hobby/ project. Everybody has a tank, how many
can say they built it from scratch and in such a way that makes it unique to
them?

Sean

[Sean]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
>I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I know
>they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
>think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find it
>is home made.

Why wouldn't it be as safe? Its going to be tested outside the house and
allowed to sit for a week. If it doesn't fail in that week, chances are its
not going to fail at all. I now have a person who is going to help me
through some of the processes. He works here in a local fishshop and has
been building homemade tanks for years, he now has a small business (though
orders are rare for that type of thing here). I don't see why it matter if
its homemade in an unfinished basement with good drainage.

Sean

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
CanadianCray > wrote:
>I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I know
>they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
>think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find it
>is home made.

Silly rabbit. If a tank that big fails it'll kill you and if it
doesn't the wet electricals will. Who needs insurance?


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Sean]

> It's not the weight that's gonna get you it's the cost of the metierials
> to build a 5 foot tall tank. Look at all the big tanks you see, 100, 200,
> 300+ gallons. Notice thet're not that tall? 2' max? That's cause the
> thickness of the glass/acrylic you use is a function of the hight of the
> tank. Five feet talk is absurd for an aquarium made freom glass or acrylic
> you'd ned 1" glass about $100 a square inch or something stupid.
>
> Best thing to do I think wold be to buuid this monster tank out of
> marine plywood into the house and only use acrylic on the front
> viewing glass.
>
> I've seen this done, as a kid a guy in Hamilton Ont. named Stan
> Winwood had marine setups in his house in the early 1970s
> including one 800 tank built into the wall the same as
> described above. Sweeeeet...


The above measurements were a general guesstimate to get some ideas on what
I was dealing with and what types of things I would need (thanks again to
the people who helped provide some valuable information). I know the price
of the materials now and surprisingly they are cheap compared to what one
would pay for a comparable fully assembled. As for absurd: I can think of
many things that are absurd, smoking, drinking, doing drugs, wrecking a car
for kicks. Building a tank that will improve the look of a home while
providing a home for some friends is not one of them. And despite what you
think there are many tanks over 2' tall. A local fish shop here for example
has a 4' tall tank that they display Koi in. This thing is huge and its
made entirely of 1" glass. Marine plywood is out of the question. I want
to be able to view the tank from as many sides as possible. It can be done,
its just finding the way to do it that's hard.



Sean

[Sean]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> CanadianCray > wrote:
>>Actually there has never been a recorded case of Piranhas killing a human.
>
> There was an article in TFH in I think the 80s or 90s where Axelrod
> too pictures of a school of Pirana as he swam alongside them. He
> said this they're fine and unless it's the 2-3 week period when the
> rains start up again after a dry seaosn then no problem.
>
> But they'll strip the meat off your bones if you try this in that
> period just after the rains start.
>
> Just ask the natives there. Not surprisingly they have this all
> figure oud.


Correct. During the dry season the fish are slowly starved as a lot of the
wildlife around them dies from lack of oxygen and from the elevated temps in
the small pools. The Piranha that do manage to survive do so by feeding off
the remains or living parts of their comrades and what little vegetation
they find in the pools. Some Piranha spend weeks floating in the fine line
of life and death with nothing to eat. When the rains come its a fest
because these guys are emancipated and very near to starvation. Isn't it
fortunate that it's at that time that Storks and Herons (I'm pretty sure
those are the birds) start hatching their chicks in the tree tops above the
swollen rivers? Many fall to the hungry Piranha. Isn't it scary how nature
weeds out the unworthy?



Sean

[Sean]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> CanadianCray > wrote:
>>I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I know
>>they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
>>think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find it
>>is home made.
>
> Silly rabbit. If a tank that big fails it'll kill you and if it
> doesn't the wet electricals will. Who needs insurance?


I would say that could be said for any tank over 10 gallons my friend.

Sean

[URBANFLAGE]

your gonna move a tank that big???
wouldn't you want to build it in place??

good luck!!


Brad


"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I
know
> >they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
> >think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find
it
> >is home made.
>
> Why wouldn't it be as safe? Its going to be tested outside the house and
> allowed to sit for a week. If it doesn't fail in that week, chances are
its
> not going to fail at all. I now have a person who is going to help me
> through some of the processes. He works here in a local fishshop and has
> been building homemade tanks for years, he now has a small business
(though
> orders are rare for that type of thing here). I don't see why it matter
if
> its homemade in an unfinished basement with good drainage.
>
> Sean
>
>

[Sean]

"URBANFLAGE" > wrote in message
.. .
> your gonna move a tank that big???
> wouldn't you want to build it in place??
>
> good luck!!
>
>
> Brad

No, I wouldn't. I would try out my skills on a smaller version and then
work my way up. Do you just think I am going to sink 1000's of dollars into
something without knowing or having any knowledge of what I am doing and
hoping for the best? Are you really that naive?

Sean

[Koi-lo]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
>I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I know
>they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
>think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find it
>is home made.
========================
Knowing the damage 30g of water can do on the main floor of a house, you're
talking some serious damages. I hope there's a working drain in the floor.
I shudder to think of one of my 55s letting go.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> CanadianCray > wrote:
>>I don't think I would feel safe with a homemade version that large. I know
>>they can be just as good or better. I am just thinking what do you guys
>>think an insurance company might do if one that large fails & they find it
>>is home made.
>
> Silly rabbit. If a tank that big fails it'll kill you and if it
> doesn't the wet electricals will. Who needs insurance?
==========================
You can always hope you're on the second floor if and when it lets go! I
think the only reason I wasn't electrocuted that day was the water reached
the main fuse box and blew it. We had no electricity....... :-(
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

>The above measurements were a general guesstimate to get some ideas on what
>I was dealing with and what types of things I would need (thanks again to
>the people who helped provide some valuable information). I know the price
>of the materials now and surprisingly they are cheap compared to what one
>would pay for a comparable fully assembled. As for absurd: I can think of
>many things that are absurd, smoking, drinking, doing drugs, wrecking a car
>for kicks. Building a tank that will improve the look of a home while
>providing a home for some friends is not one of them. And despite what you
>think there are many tanks over 2' tall. A local fish shop here for example
>has a 4' tall tank that they display Koi in. This thing is huge and its
>made entirely of 1" glass. Marine plywood is out of the question. I want
>to be able to view the tank from as many sides as possible. It can be done,
>its just finding the way to do it that's hard.

Alright well, you can't stop a determined Newfie. It's gonna be a bit of a bitch
having it viewable on all sides. Most BIG tanks tend not to be. Theres a 10K gal
tank in France somewhere on the web written up. It's only glass on 1 side
though.

Making a very big tank is no different than making a small tanks. The parts
are jsut heavier. Once you find out what the correct material to use is
you "simply" cut and glue it per the dirctions give in the previous
articles URLS.

Why do you say arcylic is not so expensive? What have you found.

I will admit there ar days when I fanatasize about an enormous
aquarium built on the bedrockbelow this place that sticks up
20 feet in the center of the house, but that's public aquarium
dimensions.

Sure would be a neat way to hear the house though :-)

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Sean]

> Why do you say arcylic is not so expensive? What have you found.

I checked around town here. I can get a 0.5" sheet of acrylic for $500. Or
I could buy Lexan, which would be about the same strength as a 1.5" thick
sheet of acrylic (according to the guy I just called here at a plastic shop,
but I shall check the PDFs on the product before I do anything ;)). He said
its the same stuff that they make bus shelters out of and its practically
indestructible. Anyways that runs for a little cheaper then the acrylic, so
now I've got my ballpark figure ;) I say its going to be cheaper in
relation to what we have to pay here for tanks. A 100G tank here cost
anywhere from $1500-2000, I don't know what prices run where you are but
fish keeping isn't exactly a big thing here and the price/selection reflects
that. The local stores had a Xmas dealy happening and they were proud to
boast that they now have 55g tanks for the low price of $899. Comes with a
$10 filter/pump combo and a bag of substrate...ridiculous.





> I will admit there ar days when I fanatasize about an enormous
> aquarium built on the bedrockbelow this place that sticks up
> 20 feet in the center of the house, but that's public aquarium
> dimensions.
>
> Sure would be a neat way to hear the house though :-)

Build it in a garage ;) That's my dream.

Sean

[Koi-lo]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
A 100G tank here cost
> anywhere from $1500-2000, ............
=====================
Borrow someone's van or pickup truck and head for the States. Have the
closest pet shop near the boarder have the tank ready to go. That should
be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying it in ca, even including gas and
maybe staying at an overnight flea bag hotel. :-))
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[CanadianCray]

1500-$2000?????? Where are you shopping? I have picked up numerous 100gallon
setups for under $600. Including stands & canopies. I am in the Toronto
area.

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
> A 100G tank here cost
>> anywhere from $1500-2000, ............
> =====================
> Borrow someone's van or pickup truck and head for the States. Have the
> closest pet shop near the boarder have the tank ready to go. That should
> be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying it in ca, even including gas and
> maybe staying at an overnight flea bag hotel. :-))
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> Reading Headers:
> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[NetMax]

Last time I looked, Hagen's 120g was $398cdn and their 130g was $432cdn
(regular prices), but this is just for the glass box. Canada's other
manufacturer (Perfecto) also makes large tanks and is priced similarly (or
lower typically).

Put them in a conventional stand with canopy & lights and you're typically
around $1,000. I've sold them with a filter system, gravel, stand, canopy &
lights for $1,000 but it was just a $200 open metal stand. I think US
prices are comparable (they have at least 2 high volume retail
manufacturers), and many low volume or commercial builders.

With a nice stand, and a lighting, filter and gravel upgrade, you can hit
$2,000 easy (more if you go with the matching red-oak stand & cap on an
Oceanic ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
> 1500-$2000?????? Where are you shopping? I have picked up numerous
> 100gallon setups for under $600. Including stands & canopies. I am in the
> Toronto area.
>
> "Koi-lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Sean" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> A 100G tank here cost
>>> anywhere from $1500-2000, ............
>> =====================
>> Borrow someone's van or pickup truck and head for the States. Have the
>> closest pet shop near the boarder have the tank ready to go. That
>> should be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying it in ca, even including
>> gas and maybe staying at an overnight flea bag hotel. :-))
>> --
>>
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> Aquariums since 1952
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> Troll Information:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
>> Reading Headers:
>> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> But they'll strip the meat off your bones if you try this in that
> period just after the rains start.
======================
I saw a film clip on TV showing them stripping a water buffalo in minutes.
All that was left was the bones. Just knowing these fish are capable of
doing such a thing makes me want to pass on them.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[CanadianCray]

They can only do that when in packs of hundreds or thousands. When you have
a few in a tank they are VERY timid fish.

At least that goes for the Red Belly.
"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> But they'll strip the meat off your bones if you try this in that
>> period just after the rains start.
> ======================
> I saw a film clip on TV showing them stripping a water buffalo in minutes.
> All that was left was the bones. Just knowing these fish are capable of
> doing such a thing makes me want to pass on them.
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> Reading Headers:
> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[Sean]

"Koi-lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
> A 100G tank here cost
>> anywhere from $1500-2000, ............
> =====================
> Borrow someone's van or pickup truck and head for the States. Have the
> closest pet shop near the boarder have the tank ready to go. That should
> be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying it in ca, even including gas and
> maybe staying at an overnight flea bag hotel. :-))


Sounds like a plan but I live on an island and for me going to the States is
like going on a vacation (at least it will cost that much anyways). It not
the point though I want to build it, I want to experiment with it.



Sean

[Sean]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
> 1500-$2000?????? Where are you shopping? I have picked up numerous
> 100gallon setups for under $600. Including stands & canopies. I am in the
> Toronto area.

I live in Newfoundland. Our prices are nowhere near that good. We recently
had a bunch of Pets Unlimited shop open and I figured at those big chain
stores I would get a cheaper price. Nope...not a chance.

Sean

[Sean]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
> They can only do that when in packs of hundreds or thousands. When you
> have a few in a tank they are VERY timid fish.
>
> At least that goes for the Red Belly.


That goes for all Piranha. The Red Belly is actually the more daring of the
bunch because they are a pack fish. A lot of Piranha species are loners.

Sean

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Sean > wrote:
>> Why do you say arcylic is not so expensive? What have you found.
>
>I checked around town here. I can get a 0.5" sheet of acrylic for $500. Or
>I could buy Lexan, which would be about the same strength as a 1.5" thick
>sheet of acrylic (according to the guy I just called here at a plastic shop,
>but I shall check the PDFs on the product before I do anything ;)). He said
>its the same stuff that they make bus shelters out of and its practically
>indestructible. Anyways that runs for a little cheaper then the acrylic, so
>now I've got my ballpark figure ;) I say its going to be cheaper in
>relation to what we have to pay here for tanks. A 100G tank here cost
>anywhere from $1500-2000, I don't know what prices run where you are but
>fish keeping isn't exactly a big thing here and the price/selection reflects
>that. The local stores had a Xmas dealy happening and they were proud to
>boast that they now have 55g tanks for the low price of $899. Comes with a
>$10 filter/pump combo and a bag of substrate...ridiculous.

Ah, see, well, tanks are half a buck a gallon in Tronno. Used, albeit,
but that's fine. It takes two 4x8 shets to make a 240. I can buy one
for half the price of one sheet. But for BIG tanks it's your only option.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Kurt]

"Sean" > wrote in
:

> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 1500-$2000?????? Where are you shopping? I have picked up
>> numerous 100gallon setups for under $600. Including stands &
>> canopies. I am in the Toronto area.
>
> I live in Newfoundland. Our prices are nowhere near that good.
> We recently had a bunch of Pets Unlimited shop open and I figured
> at those big chain stores I would get a cheaper price. Nope...not
> a chance.
>
>

Are you infering that the Pets Unlimited shop has joined the Water St.
Pirates? I'd think that they all have to swear alliegence before they
leave Halifax.

--
Cheers,
Kurt (who left the Rock about 50 years ago)

[David Zopf]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 1500-$2000?????? Where are you shopping? I have picked up numerous
>> 100gallon setups for under $600. Including stands & canopies. I am in the
>> Toronto area.
>
> I live in Newfoundland. Our prices are nowhere near that good. We
> recently had a bunch of Pets Unlimited shop open and I figured at those
> big chain stores I would get a cheaper price. Nope...not a chance.
>

Thats what you get for putting the Gulf of St. Lawrence between you and
Civilization ;-)

Regards,
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
(Friend of Newfies... I've been Screeched *shudders*)

[Sean]

"David Zopf" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 1500-$2000?????? Where are you shopping? I have picked up numerous
>>> 100gallon setups for under $600. Including stands & canopies. I am in
>>> the Toronto area.
>>
>> I live in Newfoundland. Our prices are nowhere near that good. We
>> recently had a bunch of Pets Unlimited shop open and I figured at those
>> big chain stores I would get a cheaper price. Nope...not a chance.
>>
>
> Thats what you get for putting the Gulf of St. Lawrence between you and
> Civilization ;-)

Heh, that's funny. I'm actually glad about that.

Sean

[Sean]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Sean > wrote:
>>> Why do you say arcylic is not so expensive? What have you found.
>>
>>I checked around town here. I can get a 0.5" sheet of acrylic for $500.
>>Or
>>I could buy Lexan, which would be about the same strength as a 1.5" thick
>>sheet of acrylic (according to the guy I just called here at a plastic
>>shop,
>>but I shall check the PDFs on the product before I do anything ;)). He
>>said
>>its the same stuff that they make bus shelters out of and its practically
>>indestructible. Anyways that runs for a little cheaper then the acrylic,
>>so
>>now I've got my ballpark figure ;) I say its going to be cheaper in
>>relation to what we have to pay here for tanks. A 100G tank here cost
>>anywhere from $1500-2000, I don't know what prices run where you are but
>>fish keeping isn't exactly a big thing here and the price/selection
>>reflects
>>that. The local stores had a Xmas dealy happening and they were proud to
>>boast that they now have 55g tanks for the low price of $899. Comes with
>>a
>>$10 filter/pump combo and a bag of substrate...ridiculous.
>
> Ah, see, well, tanks are half a buck a gallon in Tronno. Used, albeit,
> but that's fine. It takes two 4x8 shets to make a 240. I can buy one
> for half the price of one sheet. But for BIG tanks it's your only option.


Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I would
consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.

Sean

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Sean > wrote:
>>
>> Ah, see, well, tanks are half a buck a gallon in Tronno. Used, albeit,
>> but that's fine. It takes two 4x8 shets to make a 240. I can buy one
>> for half the price of one sheet. But for BIG tanks it's your only option.
>
>
>Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I would
>consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.

Look in recycler.com for large used acrylic tanks. UPS will ship anything
under 150 pounds for about $180 max. A 300 gal acrylic tank is about 150
pounds. I saw one for $180 last year but the guy wouldn't ship internationally
(but would take paypal). Actually he wouled ship but he wouldn't weight it
and I didn't want UPS to come out and go "ah, 165 pounds, THAT's like
$600 to ship"

There's trucks that go back and forth between Tronna and the rock all the
time. You see them around here; there's a lot of Nefoundland flags in this
area.

I bought two drilled 90's for $50 (for both) last year. Lots of bargins if
you're patient. Look in pricenetwork.ca classifieds and be patient then you
have a simple logistics problem of getting stuf from TO to you which people
deal with all the time.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Sean]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Sean > wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, see, well, tanks are half a buck a gallon in Tronno. Used, albeit,
>>> but that's fine. It takes two 4x8 shets to make a 240. I can buy one
>>> for half the price of one sheet. But for BIG tanks it's your only
>>> option.
>>
>>
>>Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I
>>would
>>consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.
>
> Look in recycler.com for large used acrylic tanks. UPS will ship anything
> under 150 pounds for about $180 max. A 300 gal acrylic tank is about 150
> pounds. I saw one for $180 last year but the guy wouldn't ship
> internationally
> (but would take paypal). Actually he wouled ship but he wouldn't weight it
> and I didn't want UPS to come out and go "ah, 165 pounds, THAT's like
> $600 to ship"
>
> There's trucks that go back and forth between Tronna and the rock all the
> time. You see them around here; there's a lot of Nefoundland flags in this
> area.
>
> I bought two drilled 90's for $50 (for both) last year. Lots of bargins if
> you're patient. Look in pricenetwork.ca classifieds and be patient then
> you
> have a simple logistics problem of getting stuf from TO to you which
> people
> deal with all the time.


Sweet site...might actually get what I want for cheap here...

Sean

[Koi-Lo]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I
> would consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.
==========================
Is everything twice the price where you live? I suppose it's the shipping
expenses that add so much to the cost of the tanks. Do you pay double for
the fish you purchase as well?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Sean]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I
>> would consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.
> ==========================
> Is everything twice the price where you live? I suppose it's the
> shipping
> expenses that add so much to the cost of the tanks. Do you pay double for
> the fish you purchase as well?

No, the actual fish are priced fairly well (I base this on the prices the
stores pay from the actual supplier). I paid $11 each for 6 Piranha at a
local shop.

Sean

[Richard Sexton]

...
>> Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I
>> would consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.
>==========================
>Is everything twice the price where you live? I suppose it's the shipping
>expenses that add so much to the cost of the tanks. Do you pay double for
>the fish you purchase as well?

Pretend it's Hawaii, but colder.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> ...
>>> Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I
>>> would consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.
>>==========================
>>Is everything twice the price where you live? I suppose it's the
>>shipping
>>expenses that add so much to the cost of the tanks. Do you pay double for
>>the fish you purchase as well?
>
> Pretend it's Hawaii, but colder.
===========================
LOL :-D Gotcha!
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Sean]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> ...
>>> Exactly...if there were any amount of tanks here to be bought used, I
>>> would consider a large used tank. That isn't the case sadly.
>>==========================
>>Is everything twice the price where you live? I suppose it's the
>>shipping
>>expenses that add so much to the cost of the tanks. Do you pay double for
>>the fish you purchase as well?
>
> Pretend it's Hawaii, but colder.



Hah! I'm happy for that also. I can't stand temps above freezing. GF says
I am part yeti.



Sean

[Joel M. Baldwin]

If you're serious about this project you should ask around at
<http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/>

These guys have dealt with large tanks.

"Sean" > wrote in
:
>
> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Sean > wrote:
>>>Anyone have any tips on what one would need/do when building a custom
>>>tank?
>>>Materials to use and sealant advice would be great. I'm looking to
>>>contruct
>>>a tank that is about 300Gs...
>>
>> Step 1: See if you can get the glass cheaper than just buying a tank.
>> Silicone
>> is the only adhesive you can use.
>
> I won't be using glass, it's no good for what I want.
>
>> Acrylic is easier to work with but even more expensive.
>
> That's what I am going with.
>
>> I'd buy a good ued tank. What reason would you have to make one
>> that big yourself?
>
> My reasons are basically a hobby/ project. Everybody has a tank, how
> many can say they built it from scratch and in such a way that makes
> it unique to them?
>
> Sean