Mbuna Cichlids

[Bob]

I am going to setup a Mbuna Cichlids 75gl tak. I would like to keep the top
open and suspend a 4' shop light over the tank. Would there be a problem
with the fish jumping out? I am not sure if they are jumpers or not. My
tank is in the garage and I will build a simple stand. Is it recommended to
place styrofoam between the tank and stand?
One more question, I will have a lot of rock and sand. would it be best to
put a plastic eag crate down and then sand and rocks?

Thanks
Bob

[Gill Passman]

Bob wrote:
> I am going to setup a Mbuna Cichlids 75gl tak. I would like to keep the top
> open and suspend a 4' shop light over the tank. Would there be a problem
> with the fish jumping out? I am not sure if they are jumpers or not. My
> tank is in the garage and I will build a simple stand. Is it recommended to
> place styrofoam between the tank and stand?
> One more question, I will have a lot of rock and sand. would it be best to
> put a plastic eag crate down and then sand and rocks?
>
> Thanks
> Bob
>
>

As I sit here with the Mbuna tank behind me the number of splashes would
suggest to me that an open tank would not be the best idea...as for
styrofoam I would go for it if you are building your own stand - you can
get away without it with a factory built tank and stand - but don't risk
it...

I don't have egg crate in my tank and have around 30Kilo of ocean
rock...most people would describe me as reckless doing this - I'd
probably agree with them :-)

Gill

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
.. .
> Bob wrote:
>> I am going to setup a Mbuna Cichlids 75gl tak. I would like to keep the
>> top open and suspend a 4' shop light over the tank. Would there be a
>> problem with the fish jumping out? I am not sure if they are jumpers or
>> not. My tank is in the garage and I will build a simple stand. Is it
>> recommended to place styrofoam between the tank and stand?
>> One more question, I will have a lot of rock and sand. would it be best
>> to put a plastic eag crate down and then sand and rocks?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bob
>
> As I sit here with the Mbuna tank behind me the number of splashes would
> suggest to me that an open tank would not be the best idea...as for
> styrofoam I would go for it if you are building your own stand - you can
> get away without it with a factory built tank and stand - but don't risk
> it...
>
> I don't have egg crate in my tank and have around 30Kilo of ocean
> rock...most people would describe me as reckless doing this - I'd probably
> agree with them :-)
>
> Gill


A common method is to put a sheet of Styrofoam down first inside the
aquarium. Then assembly all your rock structures. Then add your substrate.
Then add water very slowly (on to a plate to not stir up the substrate
unnecessarily). As the waterline rises, you might want to pause
occasionally to tweak the rockwork. The Styrofoam under the rockwork
provides traction (they won't slide around), and removes point-load contact
point from stressing the glass.

Keep in mind that Styrofoam is buoyant, about 60 lbs per cubic foot.
Generally, mbuna tanks have more than enough weight in rocks to hold the
Styrofoam down. You could silicone the Styrofoam down to the base, but I've
never seen a case where this was needed (the more rocks you have, the more
you need Styrofoam, and more unlikely it is that the rocks are lighter than
the Styrofoam).

Egg-crate is used when you want to stop digging fish from exposing UGF
plates. Expanded polystyrene (Styrofoam made of little bubbles of foam) is
not as good as extruded polystyrene (little bubbles of air) if you have
aggressive diggers (many medium-large cichlids) or chewers (some Plecos).
Also expanded polystyrene will degrade with time and begin falling apart
after several years. The extruded stuff lasts *much* longer underwater.

The use of any Styrofoam under the tank is to account for minor
imperfections or protrusions in the stand's surface. It's use depends on
your application. It's more commonly used with tanks over 500 lbs (your 75g
is in the 675-750 lb range).

hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[JG]

Don't keep the top open on an Mbuna tank -- they will jump out. Mine are
quite active and aggressive feeders and splash water quite vehemently.
Styrofoam is a good idea if your unsure whether your floor is even or not.
A friend of mine recently setup a 180G marine tank and went with the
styrofoam just in case. Egg crate at the bottom of the tank is a good idea
and I've done it myself. The main reason for this is to assist in
distributing the weight of the rocks across the tank floor and to prevent
and unnecessary crack in the tank floor from an industriously digging
cichlid. When you place a rock in a tank, the pressure is going to be
exerted most on the point of contact. The eggrate helps to distribute the
pressure.

Cheers,

J
www.jaysaquaria.com
"Bob" > wrote in message
...
>I am going to setup a Mbuna Cichlids 75gl tak. I would like to keep the
>top open and suspend a 4' shop light over the tank. Would there be a
>problem with the fish jumping out? I am not sure if they are jumpers or
>not. My tank is in the garage and I will build a simple stand. Is it
>recommended to place styrofoam between the tank and stand?
> One more question, I will have a lot of rock and sand. would it be best
> to put a plastic eag crate down and then sand and rocks?
>
> Thanks
> Bob
>

[Big Dummy]

You put styrofoam inside the tank? No toxic chemicals seep out of it I
guess then?

I have just set up a 30 gallon cube I was thinking of stacking up some rocks
for a few small peacocks or maybe some mbuna. probably 15 - 20 lbs worth.
Should I put styrofoam in the tank under the gravel?

Jr

[NetMax]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
om...
> You put styrofoam inside the tank? No toxic chemicals seep out of it I
> guess then?
>
> I have just set up a 30 gallon cube I was thinking of stacking up some
> rocks
> for a few small peacocks or maybe some mbuna. probably 15 - 20 lbs
> worth.
> Should I put styrofoam in the tank under the gravel?
>
> Jr


It would help keep it from sliding around. Mbuna like to dig and cause
rocks to shift. I'm not sure you want mbuna and peacocks in such a small
tank as a 30g though. This could be problematic unless you select very
carefully, species which don't get too big, and are not too territorial or
argumentative. You also don't want them spawning in that size set-up. jmo
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Big Dummy]

"NetMax" > wrote >
>
> It would help keep it from sliding around. Mbuna like to dig and cause
> rocks to shift. I'm not sure you want mbuna and peacocks in such a small
> tank as a 30g though. This could be problematic unless you select very
> carefully, species which don't get too big, and are not too territorial or
> argumentative. You also don't want them spawning in that size set-up.
jmo
> --

I was thinking of putting in a few labidochromis caeruleus that I already
have and some sunshine peacocks which are on sale at the LFS, plus a couple
of silver dollars for dithers, and a wierd yellow puffer I have. Maybe a
couple of other small haps or peaceful mbuna if there are any. Any
reccomendations?

DB

[NetMax]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote >
>>
>> It would help keep it from sliding around. Mbuna like to dig and cause
>> rocks to shift. I'm not sure you want mbuna and peacocks in such a small
>> tank as a 30g though. This could be problematic unless you select very
>> carefully, species which don't get too big, and are not too territorial
>> or
>> argumentative. You also don't want them spawning in that size set-up.
> jmo
>> --
>
> I was thinking of putting in a few labidochromis caeruleus that I already
> have and some sunshine peacocks which are on sale at the LFS, plus a
> couple
> of silver dollars for dithers, and a wierd yellow puffer I have. Maybe a
> couple of other small haps or peaceful mbuna if there are any. Any
> reccomendations?
>
> DB


Get a bigger tank! ;~) You hit capacity with the Labs. I think the
Peacocks would need more swimming room than a 30g cube tank could afford.
Silver dollars definitely need swimming room and a larger size tank
(longer). The puffer is a ymmv. These fish come from quite different water
conditions.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Big Dummy]

"NetMax" > wrote in message news:UI-

> Get a bigger tank! ;~) You hit capacity with the Labs. I think the
> Peacocks would need more swimming room than a 30g cube tank could afford.
> Silver dollars definitely need swimming room and a larger size tank
> (longer). The puffer is a ymmv. These fish come from quite different
water
> conditions.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

Well, I'm only going to be in this Apartment for about a year, after which
I'll probably be returning to New Orleans where I have two 75 gallon tanks
which I will be transfering the fish to.

As for the puffer, I don't know what ymmv stands for, but I don't really buy
all these hard and fast rules for mixing different types of Cichlids. For
that matter incidentally, the Silver Dollars don't like the same kind of
water conditions that haps or labs like either.

I've had lot of success over the years mixing Central and South American,
and African cichlids of various types together. All you have to do is
manage aggression with various tricks, mainly by knowing the behaviors of
the various fish and which are on the top of the pecking order. I've even
acclimated Cichlids like Red Devils, Black Belts, Urupthalmus and Mangaguans
to fully saline tanks and had them living with Trigger fish, Damsels and
Panther Groupers.

I'd like to figure out what kind of puffer this is though. It's sort of a
metalic lemon yellow in color, quite thin, with yellow eyes. It's behavior
is very peaceful for a puffer, though it's quite active.

DB

[NetMax]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
t...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message news:UI-
>
>> Get a bigger tank! ;~) You hit capacity with the Labs. I think the
>> Peacocks would need more swimming room than a 30g cube tank could
>> afford.
>> Silver dollars definitely need swimming room and a larger size tank
>> (longer). The puffer is a ymmv. These fish come from quite different
> water
>> conditions.
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
> Well, I'm only going to be in this Apartment for about a year, after
> which
> I'll probably be returning to New Orleans where I have two 75 gallon
> tanks
> which I will be transfering the fish to.
>
> As for the puffer, I don't know what ymmv stands for, but I don't
> really buy
> all these hard and fast rules for mixing different types of Cichlids.
> For
> that matter incidentally, the Silver Dollars don't like the same kind
> of
> water conditions that haps or labs like either.
>
> I've had lot of success over the years mixing Central and South
> American,
> and African cichlids of various types together. All you have to do is
> manage aggression with various tricks, mainly by knowing the behaviors
> of
> the various fish and which are on the top of the pecking order. I've
> even
> acclimated Cichlids like Red Devils, Black Belts, Urupthalmus and
> Mangaguans
> to fully saline tanks and had them living with Trigger fish, Damsels
> and
> Panther Groupers.
>
> I'd like to figure out what kind of puffer this is though. It's sort
> of a
> metalic lemon yellow in color, quite thin, with yellow eyes. It's
> behavior
> is very peaceful for a puffer, though it's quite active.
>
> DB



ymmv = your mileage may vary

In regards to water conditions, the tetras are the most out of place.

In regards to mixing cichlids, I do the same thing. There is a hard
limit with Africans and Central/South Americans as their communication
signs are reversed (one brightens for aggression, the other dulls for
aggression, making for a lot of mixed signals).

I've never heard of taking these cichlids to marine conditions. While
some did have a marine stage (supposedly to cross the oceans), I'm
surprised that they could handle a high concentration now, especially
long term with no effect on their health, but I have no experience with
this, and you probably have no pictures or methods of corroboration.

For puffer ID, this has been the most useful site I've found. Email the
webmaster if you're still stumped.
http://puffernet.tripod.com/species.html

hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Big Dummy]

"NetMax" > wrote in message news:hdaIf.14175
> ymmv = your mileage may vary
>
> In regards to water conditions, the tetras are the most out of place.
>
> In regards to mixing cichlids, I do the same thing. There is a hard
> limit with Africans and Central/South Americans as their communication
> signs are reversed (one brightens for aggression, the other dulls for
> aggression, making for a lot of mixed signals).
>
> I've never heard of taking these cichlids to marine conditions. While
> some did have a marine stage (supposedly to cross the oceans), I'm
> surprised that they could handle a high concentration now, especially
> long term with no effect on their health, but I have no experience with
> this, and you probably have no pictures or methods of corroboration.
>
> For puffer ID, this has been the most useful site I've found. Email the
> webmaster if you're still stumped.
> http://puffernet.tripod.com/species.html
>
> hth

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

I don't have any photos on the salt water thing, and admittedly I didn't
keep them in the marine tank for too long because I started having
overcrowding problems in the salt water tank, but I've seen other people do
it as well and I've also kept Cichlids in high salinity up to 20 ppt with
wild fish from Lake Ponchartrain (which is brackish) for years. I tried it
after doing some research for an article I wrote about Non Indingenous fish
species in Florida for TFH in 1998, and finding out that some Cichlid
species actually thrive in marine environments and can be found in the open
ocean. "Mayan" cichlids were the first species I learned of, but I believe
it's also well known that some other species such as Black Belts can do so
as well.

Googling just now I found this article about acclimating cichlids to salt
water. I haven't even read it yet but it seems to address the subject.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:VFMEQ4Bpz9EJ:www-personal.umich.edu/~ro
ldfiel/Salty%2520cichlids.pdf+black+belt+cichlid+ocean&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&c
d=3

My personal experience is that it depends a lot where they come from, some
estuarine and lake dwelling cichlids seem to handle it ok (Mayans and Red
Devils), deep riverine fish (like Oscars or some species of Tilapia, say)
much less so. Some cichlid books I used to have before they were flooded in
Hurricane Katrina mention certain species which are found in salt water
estuaries or even miles off shore.

I also know that since my home town of New Orleans became infested with
Cyanogutatum cichlids, they have been found in some numbers in the
(brackish) waters of Lake Ponchartrain by researchers at the University of
New Orleans.

DB

[NetMax]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message news:hdaIf.14175
>> ymmv = your mileage may vary
>>
>> In regards to water conditions, the tetras are the most out of place.
>>
>> In regards to mixing cichlids, I do the same thing. There is a hard
>> limit with Africans and Central/South Americans as their communication
>> signs are reversed (one brightens for aggression, the other dulls for
>> aggression, making for a lot of mixed signals).
>>
>> I've never heard of taking these cichlids to marine conditions. While
>> some did have a marine stage (supposedly to cross the oceans), I'm
>> surprised that they could handle a high concentration now, especially
>> long term with no effect on their health, but I have no experience with
>> this, and you probably have no pictures or methods of corroboration.
>>
>> For puffer ID, this has been the most useful site I've found. Email the
>> webmaster if you're still stumped.
>> http://puffernet.tripod.com/species.html
>>
>> hth
>
> Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
>
> I don't have any photos on the salt water thing, and admittedly I didn't
> keep them in the marine tank for too long because I started having
> overcrowding problems in the salt water tank, but I've seen other people
> do
> it as well and I've also kept Cichlids in high salinity up to 20 ppt with
> wild fish from Lake Ponchartrain (which is brackish) for years. I tried
> it
> after doing some research for an article I wrote about Non Indingenous
> fish
> species in Florida for TFH in 1998, and finding out that some Cichlid
> species actually thrive in marine environments and can be found in the
> open
> ocean. "Mayan" cichlids were the first species I learned of, but I
> believe
> it's also well known that some other species such as Black Belts can do so
> as well.
>
> Googling just now I found this article about acclimating cichlids to salt
> water. I haven't even read it yet but it seems to address the subject.
>
> http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:VFMEQ4Bpz9EJ:www-personal.umich.edu/~ro
> ldfiel/Salty%2520cichlids.pdf+black+belt+cichlid+ocean&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&c
> d=3
>
> My personal experience is that it depends a lot where they come from, some
> estuarine and lake dwelling cichlids seem to handle it ok (Mayans and Red
> Devils), deep riverine fish (like Oscars or some species of Tilapia, say)
> much less so. Some cichlid books I used to have before they were flooded
> in
> Hurricane Katrina mention certain species which are found in salt water
> estuaries or even miles off shore.
>
> I also know that since my home town of New Orleans became infested with
> Cyanogutatum cichlids, they have been found in some numbers in the
> (brackish) waters of Lake Ponchartrain by researchers at the University of
> New Orleans.
>
> DB


Thanks, I'll check out that report.
--
www.NetMax.tk