Vacation and Water change

[fish lover]

I'm scheduled for a 5 weeks vacation in May. I wonder what are the
water change options I have for my discus. Having someone over to
change water for me is not an option. There are so many things can go
wrong and I just don't see it happen.

That said, I'm thinking of two possible options:
1. Condition my Discus for less water changes. I'm doing 40% water
change every 5 days. I can slowly increase the days to one week, then
two weeks, then three weeks before May. Maybe this way the two extra
weeks are not going to be too hard on them.

2. Another option is keep doing the 40% water change till one week
before vacation. Then doing 30% water change everyday righ till one
day before I leave. That way the water is going to be really fresh.
Maybe that will help them to pass the 5 weeks.

Any advise?

I'm going to use an auto feeder with some flake food. It willl feed
the fish twice a day and they are used to eat some flakes. I used this
before for my other fish without any problem for 5 weeks. Never tried
on Discus.

My current set up:
125 g tank with a Fluval 304 and a 404.
11 3" Discus
3-4 small cories
3 small ottos
PH 7.2
Temp 88
Lightly planted
Some driftwoods

[Jim Anderson]

fish lover wrote:
> I'm scheduled for a 5 weeks vacation in May. I wonder what are the
> water change options I have for my discus. Having someone over to
> change water for me is not an option. There are so many things can go
> wrong and I just don't see it happen.
>
> That said, I'm thinking of two possible options:
> 1. Condition my Discus for less water changes. I'm doing 40% water
> change every 5 days. I can slowly increase the days to one week, then
> two weeks, then three weeks before May. Maybe this way the two extra
> weeks are not going to be too hard on them.
>
> 2. Another option is keep doing the 40% water change till one week
> before vacation. Then doing 30% water change everyday righ till one
> day before I leave. That way the water is going to be really fresh.
> Maybe that will help them to pass the 5 weeks.
>
> Any advise?
>
> I'm going to use an auto feeder with some flake food. It willl feed
> the fish twice a day and they are used to eat some flakes. I used this
> before for my other fish without any problem for 5 weeks. Never tried
> on Discus.
>
> My current set up:
> 125 g tank with a Fluval 304 and a 404.
> 11 3" Discus
> 3-4 small cories
> 3 small ottos
> PH 7.2
> Temp 88
> Lightly planted
> Some driftwoods

Several of my LFS will baby sit fish in their store, they just need enough
heads up to clear a tank or two (a week or two notice).

--
Hope this helped.
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To e-mail me, just pull my_finger.

[Koi-Lo]

"fish lover" > wrote in message
...
> I'm scheduled for a 5 weeks vacation in May. I wonder what are the
> water change options I have for my discus. Having someone over to
> change water for me is not an option. There are so many things can go
> wrong and I just don't see it happen.
==================
Five weeks is a long time. What about evaporation? What happens if the
filter quits? You would be better off to board your fish as many shops will
do that these days. Or maybe ask the shop if they know of a service you can
use that takes care of tanks for people on vacation, tanks in restaurants
etc.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

Can't you just add a whack of ammonia absorbing resin ?


--
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Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[dc]

(Richard Sexton) wrote in news:drumr6$2m6$1
@news.datemas.de:

> Can't you just add a whack of ammonia absorbing resin ?

It isn't just ammonia that can kill a discus; they can be pretty sensitive
guys. Besides, any tank that isn't biologically well established enough to
handle ammonia production over the course of 5 weeks shouldn't be housing
discus anyway. ;)

Tossing resin around is a poor band-aid.

[dc]

fish lover > wrote in
:

> I'm scheduled for a 5 weeks vacation in May. I wonder what are the
> water change options I have for my discus. Having someone over to

What you've come up with as far as water changing goes sounds fine. If you
can maintain consistently low nitrate levels leading up to your departure
your fish should be in good condition for your trip.

> I'm going to use an auto feeder with some flake food. It willl feed
> the fish twice a day and they are used to eat some flakes. I used this
> before for my other fish without any problem for 5 weeks. Never tried
> on Discus.

I would cut down on the amount you feed to once a day or once every other
day, or less if you can. If your fish are healthy and relatively mature,
they should be fine fasting every other day, and the decreased feeding will
cut the amount of organic material you're tossing into your tank in half.
Adding a few more hardy plants can help out too.

A couple other things to keep in mind...

Don't add any new equipment to your tank or make any major changes to your
tank before you leave. If there are any repercussions you won't be there
to do anything about it.

5 weeks is still a long time. You should call around to LFS in your area,
a lot of them might board your discus for you while you're away, or if
they're as good as they are in my area, they can offer you on-site
maintenance while you're gone.

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
dc > wrote:
(Richard Sexton) wrote in news:drumr6$2m6$1
:
>
>> Can't you just add a whack of ammonia absorbing resin ?
>
>It isn't just ammonia that can kill a discus; they can be pretty sensitive
>guys.

Sensitive to what? What's gonn a happen in 5 weeks?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> dc > wrote:
(Richard Sexton) wrote in news:drumr6$2m6$1
:
>>
>>> Can't you just add a whack of ammonia absorbing resin ?
>>
>>It isn't just ammonia that can kill a discus; they can be pretty sensitive
>>guys.
>
> Sensitive to what? What's gonn a happen in 5 weeks?
========================
Evaporation. Pump on filter fails. Filter clogs. Lights fail to come on
or shut off. Heater fails or sticks "on"....... 5 weeks is a long time.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[dc]

(Richard Sexton) wrote in
:

>>> Can't you just add a whack of ammonia absorbing resin ?
>>
>>It isn't just ammonia that can kill a discus; they can be pretty
>>sensitive guys.
>
> Sensitive to what? What's gonn a happen in 5 weeks?

Discus are sensitive to pH changes, temperature fluctuations, nitrate
poisoning, and stress related parasitic and bacteria infection... to name
just a few. Basically any sudden changes will really stress them out, and
stress kills them very fast.

I'd rate discus up with most corals as far as the required attention to
your water parameters. It only takes discus a couple days to die when
things go off spec.

I'd never recommend discus to anyone who thinks there's a chemical/resin
fix for everything--they just don't work well or fast enough to be relied
on for these fish. With a pH above 7 even a trace amount of ammonia will
affect discus dramatically.

[dc]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in
:

>> Sensitive to what? What's gonn a happen in 5 weeks?
> ========================
> Evaporation. Pump on filter fails. Filter clogs. Lights fail to
> come on or shut off. Heater fails or sticks "on"....... 5 weeks is a
> long time.

Nitrate build-up is another big problem. In five weeks with a daily
feeding there is bound to be a lot of nitrate gas disolved in the tank.
That's why I suggested cutting the feeding down to every other day or every
three days.

Discus that are getting a water change every five days are going to be
accustomed to very low nitrate levels. To have levels rise up in the 80
ppm+ range (which they will almost certainly do in a lightly planted tank
with a daily feeding over the course of 5 weeks) is going to be tough on
even large healthy discus. It will take time and effort to bring those
levels back down again without shocking the fish with overly large water
changes too.

[Koi-Lo]

"dc" > wrote in message
...
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in
> :
>
>>> Sensitive to what? What's gonn a happen in 5 weeks?
>> ========================
>> Evaporation. Pump on filter fails. Filter clogs. Lights fail to
>> come on or shut off. Heater fails or sticks "on"....... 5 weeks is a
>> long time.
>
> Nitrate build-up is another big problem. In five weeks with a daily
> feeding there is bound to be a lot of nitrate gas disolved in the tank.
> That's why I suggested cutting the feeding down to every other day or
> every
> three days.

5 weeks is still a long time. The fish will still produce waste just to
stay alive. They'll use up fats and then body tissue. Personally I would
never leave valued fish alone that long. Too many things can go wrong. The
auto-feeder can jam and they can starve for example.

> Discus that are getting a water change every five days are going to be
> accustomed to very low nitrate levels. To have levels rise up in the 80
> ppm+ range (which they will almost certainly do in a lightly planted tank
> with a daily feeding over the course of 5 weeks) is going to be tough on
> even large healthy discus.

I'm sure it will. It would surely be harmful for *any* fish.

It will take time and effort to bring those
> levels back down again without shocking the fish with overly large water
> changes too.

This is why I sold/gave away my indoor fish the year I was traveling and
visiting. It was better for me (less worrying) and better for the fish. A
relative came over and checked the ponds (and feed) a few times a week. I
didn't have good experiences with inexperienced people taking are of
aquarium fish.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
dc > wrote:
(Richard Sexton) wrote in
:
>
>>>> Can't you just add a whack of ammonia absorbing resin ?
>>>
>>>It isn't just ammonia that can kill a discus; they can be pretty
>>>sensitive guys.
>>
>> Sensitive to what? What's gonn a happen in 5 weeks?
>
>Discus are sensitive to pH changes, temperature fluctuations, nitrate
>poisoning, and stress related parasitic and bacteria infection... to name
>just a few. Basically any sudden changes will really stress them out, and
>stress kills them very fast.
>
>I'd rate discus up with most corals as far as the required attention to
>your water parameters. It only takes discus a couple days to die when
>things go off spec.
>
>I'd never recommend discus to anyone who thinks there's a chemical/resin
>fix for everything--they just don't work well or fast enough to be relied
>on for these fish. With a pH above 7 even a trace amount of ammonia will
>affect discus dramatically.

Freshwater shrimp, especially bumblebee shrimp are about the same
that way.

Nitrate doesn't come from fishfood, not do I believe high natrAte
bothers dicsus, NitriTe does and ammonia does, but the nitrite
comes from the ammonia. Stop the ammonia with ammo-carb or somehting
like that, and they should be able to go for 5 weks without a water
change. I'd usea hellaceous amount of acticated carbon, too to
take out all the DoC I could.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[fish lover]

Thanks Guys/Gals for the help. I'm going to talk to my LFS to see what
happens. I don't trust him that much on Discus. Last time he had some
in his shop they were really unhealthy. I don't think he know how to
take care of them. The worst thing around my town is PH level. Our tap
comes out PH 8.3 and I have to bring it down to 7.2 with peat. I don't
think my LFS does that. He is going to use the tap water, which is
8.3. That PH shock could kill my fish in hours.

>I'm scheduled for a 5 weeks vacation in May. I wonder what are the
>water change options I have for my discus. Having someone over to
>change water for me is not an option. There are so many things can go
>wrong and I just don't see it happen.
>
>That said, I'm thinking of two possible options:
>1. Condition my Discus for less water changes. I'm doing 40% water
>change every 5 days. I can slowly increase the days to one week, then
>two weeks, then three weeks before May. Maybe this way the two extra
>weeks are not going to be too hard on them.
>
>2. Another option is keep doing the 40% water change till one week
>before vacation. Then doing 30% water change everyday righ till one
>day before I leave. That way the water is going to be really fresh.
>Maybe that will help them to pass the 5 weeks.
>
>Any advise?
>
>I'm going to use an auto feeder with some flake food. It willl feed
>the fish twice a day and they are used to eat some flakes. I used this
>before for my other fish without any problem for 5 weeks. Never tried
>on Discus.
>
>My current set up:
>125 g tank with a Fluval 304 and a 404.
>11 3" Discus
>3-4 small cories
>3 small ottos
>PH 7.2
>Temp 88
>Lightly planted
>Some driftwoods

[Altum]

dc wrote:

> Nitrate build-up is another big problem. In five weeks with a daily
> feeding there is bound to be a lot of nitrate gas disolved in the tank.
> That's why I suggested cutting the feeding down to every other day or every
> three days.

Nitrate isn't a gas. It's an ion if dissolved, a salt if not. If it
were a gas, all we'd have to do is areate to remove it.

OP needs a LOT of some sort of fast-growing temperature tolerant plant
to toss in the tank. Does hornwort take heat?

[dc]

"Altum" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Nitrate isn't a gas. It's an ion if dissolved, a salt if not. If it
> were a gas, all we'd have to do is areate to remove it.

You're right of course. An easy mistake to make considering how easy it is
to smell these ions coming off of a dirty aquarium or a bag of fish just
shipped half way across the world. :)

> OP needs a LOT of some sort of fast-growing temperature tolerant plant
> to toss in the tank. Does hornwort take heat?

Hornwort should be fine up to at least 82F/28C.

[dc]

(Richard Sexton) wrote in
:

>>I'd never recommend discus to anyone who thinks there's a
>>chemical/resin fix for everything--they just don't work well or fast
>>enough to be relied on for these fish. With a pH above 7 even a trace
>>amount of ammonia will affect discus dramatically.
>
> Freshwater shrimp, especially bumblebee shrimp are about the same
> that way.

All fish are more greatly affected by ammonia in a higher pH. The
reason for this is that ammonia exists in two forms in the water table,
ammonia and ammonium. Ammonia is many times more poisonous than
ammonium. The lower your pH, the more ammonia exists in its ionic form,
ammonium. The inverse is true for a higher pH.

Put simply, the higher your pH is the more deadly ammonia will be in
your tank.



(Richard Sexton) wrote in
:

> Nitrate doesn't come from fishfood, not do I believe high natrAte
> bothers dicsus,
> ...

You obviously do not know what nitrate is or where it comes from.

Nitrate is the molecular by-product from the breakdown of nitrite. The
same can be said for nitrite and ammonia/ammonium. Both are organic ions
produced in the nitrogen cycle as part of the process of breaking down
organic wastes in an aquarium and dissolving them into their lesser by-
products.

Food DOES produce nitrate indirectly. Food that is and food that is not
eaten both will produce nitrate eventually. All organic waste, ergo food
releases ammonia into the water table as it breaks down in the
filter/substrate or when it is excreted by a fish. Other bacteria
present in the water column then break down ammonia into nitrite and
then nitrite into nitrate. In an established aquarium this process is
immediate and the levels of ammonia and nitrite should never rise to
detectable levels provided there is enough oxygen and not an
overabundance of waste.

There will always be some nitrate in an established aquarium because it
requires oxygen deprived conditions to be biologically reformed by
bacteria; it requires very dense planting to be removed well by most
other natural means in a freshwater aquarium. Chemical sponges do not
remove nitrate very effectively. Often the only practical way to deal
with nitrate is through water changes.

Nitrate IS toxic. There is plenty of evidence to support that. Have you
ever tried to get coral and marine inverts. to thrive under high nitrate
conditions? It won't work out for long.

Nitrate is toxic in the freshwater aquarium as well. It is not nearly as
poisonous as ammonia or toxic as nitrite, but fish exposed to high
concentrations of nitrate for extended periods of time will suffer
stress and be more prone to other ailments. Some sensitive fish (esp..
discus, knives, rays, aspistos, shrimp, etc.) are more vulnerable to
nitrate build-up than other fish. A strong and healthy fish can usually
tolerate long periods of high nitrate conditions much easier than a
stressed or weak one, but it can still make a healthy one more
vulnerable to other afflictions.

Nitrate must be dealt with regularly in the 260 odd tanks at work. I
know what it can do to fish. Discus get special attention where I work
and are provided with small fresh water changes regularly. The effect
increased nitrate levels has on discus can be observed within a few days
of the levels approaching 80 ppm. The fish will become more lethargic,
less interested in food, and take on a darker colouration. They later
begin to breathe heavier and the weaker ones in the group may die.

Some other fish like malawi cichlids barely flinch until levels exceed
160 ppm for long extended periods of time, and even then the weaker fish
are usually killed off by their tank makes before they succumb to
toxicity.

If you think nitrate does nothing to fish at all, you cannot have
bothered to research your opinion in any meaningful way.

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
dc > wrote:
(Richard Sexton) wrote in
:
>
>>>I'd never recommend discus to anyone who thinks there's a
>>>chemical/resin fix for everything--they just don't work well or fast
>>>enough to be relied on for these fish. With a pH above 7 even a trace
>>>amount of ammonia will affect discus dramatically.
>>
>> Freshwater shrimp, especially bumblebee shrimp are about the same
>> that way.
>
>All fish are more greatly affected by ammonia in a higher pH. The
>reason for this is that ammonia exists in two forms in the water table,
>ammonia and ammonium. Ammonia is many times more poisonous than
>ammonium. The lower your pH, the more ammonia exists in its ionic form,
>ammonium. The inverse is true for a higher pH.
>
>Put simply, the higher your pH is the more deadly ammonia will be in
>your tank.
>
>
>
(Richard Sexton) wrote in
:
>
>> Nitrate doesn't come from fishfood, not do I believe high natrAte
>> bothers dicsus,
>> ...
>
>You obviously do not know what nitrate is or where it comes from.

[snip]

>If you think nitrate does nothing to fish at all, you cannot have
>bothered to research your opinion in any meaningful way.

We're talking apples and oranges here. You're talking about
nitrate as a byproduct of the denitrification cycle and I'm
talking about nitrAte without nitrIte or ammonia.

If you have 80ppm nitrAte in a discus tank you aren't adding KNO3
to then you have a lot of nitrIte and ammonia, how else could
the nitrate get there?

Nitrate ions by themselves to not appear to hurt fish as people
seem to think. Shrimp are more sensitive to nitrIte and
ammonia as discus are and I've subjected them to 200ppm nitrate
for 3 weeks with no ill effects.

See also the Dupla Magazine "Today's Aquarium" vol 1/85 Pp 28-30.




--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net