Aquarium air-pumps - which are best?

[Koi-Lo]

I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke in
the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump that
lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for one
several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do they even
sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve the
performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of time?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Sean]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
> replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
> Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke
> in the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump
> that lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for
> one several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do
> they even sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve
> the performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of
> time?
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?


I have an Elite 802. Cost $14 CAN and has lasted me a year so far with no
problems.

Sean

[cat daddy]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...

> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Which one of your "identities" is this one, Carol?

[Koi-Lo]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
>> replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
>> Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke
>> in the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump
>> that lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for
>> one several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do
>> they even sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve
>> the performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of
>> time?
>>
>> Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?
>
>
> I have an Elite 802. Cost $14 CAN and has lasted me a year so far with no
> problems.
>
> Sean
========================
Have you seen much loss of pressure? I have a small Elite 799 running 4
airstones with no loss of pressure, but can't find the receipt to know
exactly how long it's been running. I think it's only a few months old. I
don't mind spending more money for something that'll last, but they've all
been so short-lived so far, even the more costly ones.

I'm about to toss one in the trash right now. Come to find out, it doesn't
even have a NAME on it! That's how ashamed the mfg is. All it has is a
country - Malaysia. I bought it last August and it's already crapped out.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Sean]

> ========================
> Have you seen much loss of pressure? I have a small Elite 799 running 4
> airstones with no loss of pressure, but can't find the receipt to know
> exactly how long it's been running. I think it's only a few months old.
> I don't mind spending more money for something that'll last, but they've
> all been so short-lived so far, even the more costly ones.
>
> I'm about to toss one in the trash right now. Come to find out, it
> doesn't even have a NAME on it! That's how ashamed the mfg is. All it
> has is a country - Malaysia. I bought it last August and it's already
> crapped out.

Nope no loss of pressure and I am running a air curtain across the back of
the tank. It about two feet in length and bubbles something crazy.

Sean

[Roy]

Why don;t you know thew answer to this questioon yourself .afterall
your the self imposed queen of fish and ponds and seem to think yu
know everything..........and here you are asking us common folks what
is best. Perhaps one of yur sock puppets can answer that question, and
with all the hot air they seem to have you should not have a problem
with getting all kinds of already heated air, and then you can turn
off your heaters a well.


On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:07:44 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
>><>replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
>><>Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke in
>><>the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump that
>><>lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for one
>><>several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do they even
>><>sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve the
>><>performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of time?
>><>
>><>Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[CanadianCray]

I personally like the Dolphin series of pumps. I have been running a
fishroom of 24 tanks off of 2 Dolphin 5 star pumps for almost 2 years now,
no loss or failure yet.


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
> replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
> Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke
> in the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump
> that lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for
> one several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do
> they even sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve
> the performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of
> time?
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
>I personally like the Dolphin series of pumps. I have been running a
>fishroom of 24 tanks off of 2 Dolphin 5 star pumps for almost 2 years now,
>no loss or failure yet.
=====================
I'll definitely take a look at these air pumps. Thanks. I'm really tired
of messing with pumps that can't be repaired even though they sell you
repair kits. It's just throwing good money after bad.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[sew crazy]

usually the rubbers go because of too much preasure place on them
= 2 few airstones and such ....
i buy the cheapest then chuck it at the first sighn of trouble ,.,,,

for my aircuirtain i have an elite ... it has been running for about 2 years
now .....


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
> replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
> Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke
> in the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump
> that lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for
> one several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do
> they even sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve
> the performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of
> time?
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

"sew crazy" > wrote in message
...
> usually the rubbers go because of too much preasure place on them
> = 2 few airstones and such ....

There's no real back-pressure on mine. I change the stones constantly. I
bought a sack of those inexpensive disposable ones a few years ago from a
place going out of business, so I sort of waste them. Back-pressure
definitely isn't the problem.

> i buy the cheapest then chuck it at the first sighn of trouble ,.,,,

Cheapest pump? The real cheapos aren't worth the effort to take home. :-)
Avoid anything from those large non-pet shop chains.

> for my aircuirtain i have an elite ... it has been running for about 2
> years now .....

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

>Have you seen much loss of pressure? I have a small Elite 799 running 4
>airstones with no loss of pressure, but can't find the receipt to know
>exactly how long it's been running. I think it's only a few months old. I
>don't mind spending more money for something that'll last, but they've all
>been so short-lived so far, even the more costly ones.
>
>I'm about to toss one in the trash right now. Come to find out, it doesn't
>even have a NAME on it! That's how ashamed the mfg is. All it has is a
>country - Malaysia. I bought it last August and it's already crapped out.

Airstones are real pump killers. No matter what kind they all clog, when they
do you have back pressure and you can expect your pump to die shortly after.

I won't use airstones (any more).

Another thing that might help is to build a plenum out of black PVC
piping. This gives the air a fairly good sized chamber to accumulate
pressure and you might be surprised how much more milage you get
out of what air you have now. I run 170 gallons in 8 tanks off
two Hagen Optimas this way. One of the tanks is doinwright boiling
over with tubulence.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >Have you seen much loss of pressure? I have a small Elite 799 running 4
>>airstones with no loss of pressure, but can't find the receipt to know
>>exactly how long it's been running. I think it's only a few months old.
>>I
>>don't mind spending more money for something that'll last, but they've all
>>been so short-lived so far, even the more costly ones.
>>
>>I'm about to toss one in the trash right now. Come to find out, it
>>doesn't
>>even have a NAME on it! That's how ashamed the mfg is. All it has is a
>>country - Malaysia. I bought it last August and it's already crapped out.
=============================================
> Airstones are real pump killers. No matter what kind they all clog, when
> they
> do you have back pressure and you can expect your pump to die shortly
> after.
>
> I won't use airstones (any more).

The ones I have don't have back-pressure. They're those disposable ones
made of some kind of white foamy plastic. I change them constantly. The
only back pressure is against the water itself which is unavoidable.
Without something on the ends of the hose the air is too wild, bubbles too
huge - splashing the glass and everything else.

> Another thing that might help is to build a plenum out of black PVC
> piping. This gives the air a fairly good sized chamber to accumulate
> pressure and you might be surprised how much more milage you get
> out of what air you have now.

?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks? How does
it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?

I run 170 gallons in 8 tanks off
> two Hagen Optimas this way. One of the tanks is doinwright boiling
> over with tubulence.

How do you build the pressure up without back pressure in the pumps?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[ReelMcKoi]

Koi-Lo wrote:
> "sew crazy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > usually the rubbers go because of too much preasure place on them
> > = 2 few airstones and such ....
>
> There's no real back-pressure on mine. I change the stones constantly. I
> bought a sack of those inexpensive disposable ones a few years ago from a
> place going out of business, so I sort of waste them. Back-pressure
> definitely isn't the problem.
>
> > i buy the cheapest then chuck it at the first sighn of trouble ,.,,,
>
> Cheapest pump? The real cheapos aren't worth the effort to take home. :-)
> Avoid anything from those large non-pet shop chains.
>
> > for my aircuirtain i have an elite ... it has been running for about 2
> > years now .....
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952

Koi-Lo Real name is Carolyn Adamo Gulley
3245 North Lamar Road Mount Juliet TN 37122-7806
Phone 615-459-9345

has been caught in various vicious lies!
Before plaguing The aquarian NG's with her nonsense, she use to plague
the Health NG do a google search on Yarrow / windsong / Carol for more
details.

http://tinyurl.com/99azt
http://tinyurl.com/87ow4
http://tinyurl.com/d6t5m
http://tinyurl.com/aheek
http://tinyurl.com/ck97r
http://tinyurl.com/cm3dp
http://tinyurl.com/8bscg
http://tinyurl.com/7epdg
http://tinyurl.com/bya3z
When she is best by a man she accuse him of stalking

http://tinyurl.com/8wryt

She engages people in senseless debates about absolutely nothing.
Her intent on the aquarian groups is to pretend she an expert on all
types of fish and aquarian issues.

Before you reply, you may want to ask her a few things or only one.
_Where does she get her information?
_Can her information be verified?
_Is the information up to date?
_What is the purpose of her post? To present reliable facts about JW's
or sling mud on a religious organization in good standing in almost
every country in the world?

Ask her for evidence of her claims before proceeding with your
conversation with her, if not you may be end up wasting your time and
bandwidth on discussing subjects based on fraudulent and fabricated
information. This is how she manipulates clueless bystanders in
participating with her distributing false information elsewhere?

Facts about Carol:

*She can never present evidence.
*She never reveals the source of her info (because there is none).
*She always hides her identity. And change her header to avoid
killfiles. A TOS offense
*She cuts and paste, rewrite postings, and will even forge e-mail
addresses
;which her ISP allows her to do. Just ask them:



If your newsgroups has been victim of Carol's MCP and ECP; you can
report her. Her account is dpc6682112001.direcpc.com and you may report
her by calling 1-800-DirecPC, by emailing us at
, or by writing to:

DirecPC
Customer Care Center
11717 Exploration Lane
Germantown, MD 20876 USA

Her use of remailers can still be traced to her account.No American ISP
like to be
associated with Hate Speech no matter if Hate speech is protected
under the First. It affects their commercial interest.
Then you can contact your own ISP and have them add them to their
block List Direcpc.com

[Daniel Morrow]

Mid posted.
Richard Sexton wrote:
>> Have you seen much loss of pressure? I have a small Elite 799
>> running 4 airstones with no loss of pressure, but can't find the
>> receipt to know exactly how long it's been running. I think it's
>> only a few months old. I don't mind spending more money for
>> something that'll last, but they've all been so short-lived so far,
>> even the more costly ones.
>>
>> I'm about to toss one in the trash right now. Come to find out, it
>> doesn't even have a NAME on it! That's how ashamed the mfg is. All
>> it has is a country - Malaysia. I bought it last August and it's
>> already crapped out.
>
> Airstones are real pump killers.

You should use my regeneration method (do a google groups search on this
newsgroup there for daniel morrow airstone and examine the one with the
forced air method of keeping airstones in top shape. I use a bicycle air
pump (with presta valve setup) once every month or two on all of my
airstones whether they are air wands or plain airstones and they operate
like new all of the time and I have been using the air-wands with tetra luft
g pumps and a cheap airmaster air pump for shallow airstones/tanks for over
two years now without a problem. The lufts are the best in my opinion for
both indoors and outdoors but indoors the danner dynamaster 2 packs more
power, is easily repairable (truly) and outputs at high pressure, but it
shouldn't be used outdoors. Both are expensive compared to the others though
but theres that saying "you get what you pay for". The cheap airmaster won't
do air wands but I still like it because it is a good cheap pump for shallow
water projects. The rena microbubbler airstones can be cleaned once every
month or two by soaking it in peroxide overnight I am told, but I clean mine
with my bicycle pump method. Good luck and later.

No matter what kind they all clog,
> when they do you have back pressure and you can expect your pump to
> die shortly after.
>
> I won't use airstones (any more).
>
> Another thing that might help is to build a plenum out of black PVC
> piping. This gives the air a fairly good sized chamber to accumulate
> pressure and you might be surprised how much more milage you get
> out of what air you have now. I run 170 gallons in 8 tanks off
> two Hagen Optimas this way. One of the tanks is doinwright boiling
> over with tubulence.

[Koi-Lo]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
> replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
> Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke
> in the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump
> that lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for
> one several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do
> they even sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve
> the performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of
> time?
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?


Go to an industrial supply company, buy an industrial airpump, and a large
air tank. Let the air pump fill up the pump, then slowly drain out the
pressure through the air hose.

[Richard Sexton]

>?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks? How does
>it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?

Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on two
end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air tubing
in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.

It's not uncomon in setups with lots of tanks to see PVC pipe running along the
back - you can drill a hole and bleed off air wherver you need.

Before I did this I never had enough pumps. I'm amazed at how many tanks
you can run off 1 pump with a plenum.

Have you considered sponge filters instead of airstones?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

Since this was already cross-posted I will let this be the last one - to
avoid reposting to the same thread 4 times.
This is to let the groups know that "SNOOZE" from rec.ponds has decided to
change his NYM to Koi-Lo. Knowing there are two "Koi-Los" may help avoid
some confusion.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm so tired of buying airpumps that wear out in less than a year. We
>> replace the diaphragms and flappers and the improvement is minimal.
>> Sometimes they're even worse! Why is this? There is no cigarette smoke
>> in the air and the house isn't dusty. Can anyone recommend an air pump
>> that lasts awhile outside the overpriced Tetra pumps. BTW I paid $44 for
>> one several years ago and the replacement parts didn't fix it. Why do
>> they even sell replacement parts when they either don't work or improve
>> the performance of the pump so little, and for such a short period of
>> time?
>>
>> Thoughts? Suggestions? Experiences?
>
>
> Go to an industrial supply company, buy an industrial airpump, and a large
> air tank. Let the air pump fill up the pump, then slowly drain out the
> pressure through the air hose.
>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

Cross-Posted because I don't know which group you replied from.

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks? How
> >does
>>it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?
>
> Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on two
> end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air tubing
> in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.

How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through some
kind of diffuser and out into the water. Or are you just talking about
getting more tanks aerated from one pump? I use gang valves for that.

> It's not uncomon in setups with lots of tanks to see PVC pipe running
> along the
> back - you can drill a hole and bleed off air wherver you need.

I see. My tanks are not in a row. Most are scattered around the sun-fish
room, and two are in here. I'd have to have air hoses running everywhere.
That sounds like a great idea if the tanks are racked on one or two walls.
:-) I have to keep this in mind.

> Before I did this I never had enough pumps. I'm amazed at how many tanks
> you can run off 1 pump with a plenum.
>
> Have you considered sponge filters instead of airstones?

Yes. They take up space in the tanks and are hard to hide. I use them
outside in the 150g GF pools with powerheads.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[richard_b]

I believe it works on a principle of the much bigger volume cushions the
effect of the pump - i.e. each "pump" from the diaphragm raise the pressure
in the combined plenum and hosing less than it would with the piping alone.

I have also seen this suggested previously as a way to reduce the noise from
the airpump


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Cross-Posted because I don't know which group you replied from.
>
> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks? How
> > >does
> >>it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?
> >
> > Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on two
> > end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air tubing
> > in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.
>
> How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through some
> kind of diffuser and out into the water. Or are you just talking about
> getting more tanks aerated from one pump? I use gang valves for that.
>
> > It's not uncomon in setups with lots of tanks to see PVC pipe running
> > along the
> > back - you can drill a hole and bleed off air wherver you need.
>
> I see. My tanks are not in a row. Most are scattered around the sun-fish
> room, and two are in here. I'd have to have air hoses running everywhere.
> That sounds like a great idea if the tanks are racked on one or two walls.
> :-) I have to keep this in mind.
>
> > Before I did this I never had enough pumps. I'm amazed at how many tanks
> > you can run off 1 pump with a plenum.
> >
> > Have you considered sponge filters instead of airstones?
>
> Yes. They take up space in the tanks and are hard to hide. I use them
> outside in the 150g GF pools with powerheads.
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
> Reading Headers:
> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[Roy]

That is not a plenum its a accumulator or resivoir. All it does is add
"volumne" so there is not a constant drain on air suppl;y. Odds are a
single stone or two does not utilized every bit of air produced by a
pump,. and over a bit of time this residual eventually accumulates in
the resivoir. It also helps balance flow between devices.


On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 06:43:55 +0000 (UTC), (Richard
Sexton) wrote:
>><>>?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks? How does
>><>>it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?
>><>
>><>Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on two
>><>end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air tubing
>><>in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.
>><>
>><>It's not uncomon in setups with lots of tanks to see PVC pipe running along the
>><>back - you can drill a hole and bleed off air wherver you need.
>><>
>><>Before I did this I never had enough pumps. I'm amazed at how many tanks
>><>you can run off 1 pump with a plenum.
>><>
>><>Have you considered sponge filters instead of airstones?

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Roy]

Who really gives a darn carol, you just have to cross post or post one
way or another and yur opbsessed with your posts to point out what you
consider is someone else, when odds are no one else really gives a dam
one way or another.........


On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 00:50:38 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>Since this was already cross-posted I will let this be the last one - to
>><>avoid reposting to the same thread 4 times.
>><>This is to let the groups know that "SNOOZE" from rec.ponds has decided to
>><>change his NYM to Koi-Lo. Knowing there are two "Koi-Los" may help avoid
>><>some confusion.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Adam]

I have two sets of air stones that I switch out every so often. I keep
one set soaking in vinegar until a few days before I am ready to use
them. The vinegar seems to work pretty well.

[cat daddy]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Since this was already cross-posted

That didn't take long to break your "promise".

> I will let this be the last one - to

How many times have you said this, Carol?

> avoid reposting to the same thread 4 times.
> This is to let the groups know that "SNOOZE" from rec.ponds has decided
to
> change his NYM to Koi-Lo. Knowing there are two "Koi-Los" may help avoid
> some confusion.

Odd, since you post under so many nyms to *cause* confusion. What about
your daily "X-Zenia" warning in RP that now includes, "You can ask your pond
questions on another fish related group such as rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
or alt.aquaria where some from this group have migrated."?
Nope, you're not trying to cause trouble, are you, Carol?

> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> Troll Information:
> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
> Reading Headers:
> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> > ...

[Roy]

The thing is none of the real knowedgeable posters migrated anywhere.
They still patronize rec.ponds just like before, but they are more
precise in who they reply to due to carols nym ****ing all the time.
They did not migrate to these other groups to get away from rec.ponds,
as much as they followed you to warn others and keep you inline. CArol
the scurge of the usenet.........a plague on a keyboard is what carol
aka koi-lo is......

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:26:55 -0600, "cat daddy" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>><>> Since this was already cross-posted
>><>
>><> That didn't take long to break your "promise".
>><>
>><> > I will let this be the last one - to
>><>
>><> How many times have you said this, Carol?
>><>
>><>> avoid reposting to the same thread 4 times.
>><>> This is to let the groups know that "SNOOZE" from rec.ponds has decided
>><>to
>><>> change his NYM to Koi-Lo. Knowing there are two "Koi-Los" may help avoid
>><>> some confusion.
>><>
>><> Odd, since you post under so many nyms to *cause* confusion. What about
>><>your daily "X-Zenia" warning in RP that now includes, "You can ask your pond
>><>questions on another fish related group such as rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
>><>or alt.aquaria where some from this group have migrated."?
>><> Nope, you're not trying to cause trouble, are you, Carol?
>><>
>><>> --
>><>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>><>> Aquariums since 1952
>><>> Troll Information:
>><>> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
>><>> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
>><>> Reading Headers:
>><>> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
>><>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>><>> . com...
>><>> >
>><>> > "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>><>> > ...
>><>

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Roy]

Carols way of thinking is.......... promises are made to break....just
look at the amount of husbands the bimbo has gone through
already.......

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:26:55 -0600, "cat daddy" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>><>> Since this was already cross-posted
>><>
>><> That didn't take long to break your "promise".
>><>
>><> > I will let this be the last one - to
>><>
>><> How many times have you said this, Carol?
>><>
>><>> avoid reposting to the same thread 4 times.
>><>> This is to let the groups know that "SNOOZE" from rec.ponds has decided
>><>to
>><>> change his NYM to Koi-Lo. Knowing there are two "Koi-Los" may help avoid
>><>> some confusion.
>><>
>><> Odd, since you post under so many nyms to *cause* confusion. What about
>><>your daily "X-Zenia" warning in RP that now includes, "You can ask your pond
>><>questions on another fish related group such as rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
>><>or alt.aquaria where some from this group have migrated."?
>><> Nope, you're not trying to cause trouble, are you, Carol?
>><>
>><>> --
>><>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>><>> Aquariums since 1952
>><>> Troll Information:
>><>> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
>><>> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
>><>> Reading Headers:
>><>> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
>><>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>><>> . com...
>><>> >
>><>> > "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>><>> > ...
>><>

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[NetMax]

As Roy mentioned, this acts as a reservoir or buffer tank. However it
should increase the efficiency just as you have described. The diaphragm
puts out a flow rate which is reduced by back-pressure. With a large
reservoir, there is no back-pressure *peaks* working against the air
pump. The pump's diaphragm and back-flappers are designed for these
higher *peaks*, so dropping (averaging) the back-pressure moves the
actual operating PSI well below the threshold of the parts, resulting in
lower losses (higher efficiency = more air).

Essentially, you've taken the hills out of the road your airpump travels,
so for the same fuel consumption, you get to go faster ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"richard_b" > wrote in message ...
>I believe it works on a principle of the much bigger volume cushions the
> effect of the pump - i.e. each "pump" from the diaphragm raise the
> pressure
> in the combined plenum and hosing less than it would with the piping
> alone.
>
> I have also seen this suggested previously as a way to reduce the noise
> from
> the airpump
>
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Cross-Posted because I don't know which group you replied from.
>>
>> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > >?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks?
>> > >How
>> > >does
>> >>it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?
>> >
>> > Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on
>> > two
>> > end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air
>> > tubing
>> > in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.
>>
>> How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through
>> some
>> kind of diffuser and out into the water. Or are you just talking
>> about
>> getting more tanks aerated from one pump? I use gang valves for that.
>>
>> > It's not uncomon in setups with lots of tanks to see PVC pipe
>> > running
>> > along the
>> > back - you can drill a hole and bleed off air wherver you need.
>>
>> I see. My tanks are not in a row. Most are scattered around the
>> sun-fish
>> room, and two are in here. I'd have to have air hoses running
>> everywhere.
>> That sounds like a great idea if the tanks are racked on one or two
>> walls.
>> :-) I have to keep this in mind.
>>
>> > Before I did this I never had enough pumps. I'm amazed at how many
>> > tanks
>> > you can run off 1 pump with a plenum.
>> >
>> > Have you considered sponge filters instead of airstones?
>>
>> Yes. They take up space in the tanks and are hard to hide. I use
>> them
>> outside in the 150g GF pools with powerheads.
>> --
>>
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> Aquariums since 1952
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> Troll Information:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
>> http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
>> Reading Headers:
>> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Gail Futoran]

I've used various common air pumps; none have failed
in 3+ years. I switched to bubble wands (soft rubber?
and flexible) a year or so ago which supposedly put less
back pressure on the pump. In moderately to heavily
planted tanks, I only run the air pumps overnight.

Gail

[Koi-Lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> As Roy mentioned, this acts as a reservoir or buffer tank. However it
> should increase the efficiency just as you have described. The diaphragm
> puts out a flow rate which is reduced by back-pressure. With a large
> reservoir, there is no back-pressure *peaks* working against the air pump.
> The pump's diaphragm and back-flappers are designed for these higher
> *peaks*, so dropping (averaging) the back-pressure moves the actual
> operating PSI well below the threshold of the parts, resulting in lower
> losses (higher efficiency = more air).
>
> Essentially, you've taken the hills out of the road your airpump travels,
> so for the same fuel consumption, you get to go faster ;~).
====================
Thanks Max, I think I understand how it works. I assume making it air-tight
would be the biggest problem.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Ross T.]

You could probably use shoe goo or silicone. :0)

Ross

[Koi-Lo]

Cross-posted thread. I don't know where you posted from so will leave all.

"Adam" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have two sets of air stones that I switch out every so often. I keep
> one set soaking in vinegar until a few days before I am ready to use
> them. The vinegar seems to work pretty well.
==============================================
I've heard of this. I may try it if I ever use the old style stones again.
I used to just toss them when they slowed down. Now I use those cheap
throw-away stones. I lucked out one a large number of them for near
nothing. At my age they're probably going to be a lifetime supply. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Ross T." > wrote in message
news:CE3Gf.355070$tl.327305@pd7tw3no...
> You could probably use shoe goo or silicone. :0)
>
> Ross
=======================
I would think the silicone would stick and work the best. I like the tanks
scattered around the house which makes it hard to have a central air supply.
If they were all in the sun-fishroom I would buy one of those (noisy) piston
air-pumps. I had a friend in NY who had one for years and years but all her
tanks were on one wall in the basement. Her only complaint was the noise
from it.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[eric]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Cross-Posted because I don't know which group you replied from.
>
> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on two
>> end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air tubing
>> in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.
>
> How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through some
> kind of diffuser and out into the water.

The effect is that a blocked airstone does not raise pressure on the pump
because the plenum can dissipate the pressure to other devices. So if you
have two airstones coming off the plenum and one gets blocked up the
resulting increase in pressure gets dissipated to the other airstone instead
of (only) back on the pump. Its not clear if this is why your pumps are
failing but it could be. In a more limited sense you could achieve the same
effect with a splitter and two airlines and thus two airstones per pump that
way any failure of one will not automatically destroy the pump. Just be sure
to only any check valve between the pump and the splitter.

[Koi-Lo]

"eric" > wrote in message
news:L14Gf.12$Tb.3@trndny01...
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through
>> some kind of diffuser and out into the water.
> -------
> The effect is that a blocked airstone does not raise pressure on the pump
> because the plenum can dissipate the pressure to other devices. So if you
> have two airstones coming off the plenum and one gets blocked up the
> resulting increase in pressure gets dissipated to the other airstone
> instead of (only) back on the pump. Its not clear if this is why your
> pumps are failing but it could be. In a more limited sense you could
> achieve the same effect with a splitter and two airlines and thus two
> airstones per pump that way any failure of one will not automatically
> destroy the pump. Just be sure to only any check valve between the pump
> and the splitter.
====================================
Ok, gotcha. I always have 3 to 4 airstones running from each air-pump and
of course they're indoors so I can immediately see if they're slowing down.
That's what made me wonder if the bother of making a plenum was worth the
effort. I don't always have check valves as some are above the tanks. I
change the stones so often I don't get to witness this slowing down.

Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in? There's
little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There must be more
to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn. What other parts
are known to go on them?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

Well if you were worth a dam I could give you the low down, so just
suffer.......my lips are sealed, so go buy a pump and get over it.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:23:16 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"eric" > wrote in message
>><>news:L14Gf.12$Tb.3@trndny01...
>><>>
>><>> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>><>> ...
>><>>> How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through
>><>>> some kind of diffuser and out into the water.
>><>> -------
>><>> The effect is that a blocked airstone does not raise pressure on the pump
>><>> because the plenum can dissipate the pressure to other devices. So if you
>><>> have two airstones coming off the plenum and one gets blocked up the
>><>> resulting increase in pressure gets dissipated to the other airstone
>><>> instead of (only) back on the pump. Its not clear if this is why your
>><>> pumps are failing but it could be. In a more limited sense you could
>><>> achieve the same effect with a splitter and two airlines and thus two
>><>> airstones per pump that way any failure of one will not automatically
>><>> destroy the pump. Just be sure to only any check valve between the pump
>><>> and the splitter.
>><>====================================
>><>Ok, gotcha. I always have 3 to 4 airstones running from each air-pump and
>><>of course they're indoors so I can immediately see if they're slowing down.
>><>That's what made me wonder if the bother of making a plenum was worth the
>><>effort. I don't always have check valves as some are above the tanks. I
>><>change the stones so often I don't get to witness this slowing down.
>><>
>><>Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in? There's
>><>little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There must be more
>><>to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn. What other parts
>><>are known to go on them?

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Koi-Lo]

"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
> I've used various common air pumps; none have failed
> in 3+ years. I switched to bubble wands (soft rubber?
> and flexible) a year or so ago which supposedly put less
> back pressure on the pump. In moderately to heavily
> planted tanks, I only run the air pumps overnight.
=====================
There must be some problem with humidity then... after all I have most of
them in the humid plant room. Others are outside in rain proof boxes with
the line running to the pools in summer. Since the repair kits fail to
repair them it has to be something OTHER then just worn flappers and
diaphragms. I need to find out what that "something" is.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "eric" > wrote in message
> news:L14Gf.12$Tb.3@trndny01...
>>
>> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> How does this extend pump life? It still has to push the air through
>>> some kind of diffuser and out into the water.
>> -------
>> The effect is that a blocked airstone does not raise pressure on the
>> pump because the plenum can dissipate the pressure to other devices.
>> So if you have two airstones coming off the plenum and one gets
>> blocked up the resulting increase in pressure gets dissipated to the
>> other airstone instead of (only) back on the pump. Its not clear if
>> this is why your pumps are failing but it could be. In a more limited
>> sense you could achieve the same effect with a splitter and two
>> airlines and thus two airstones per pump that way any failure of one
>> will not automatically destroy the pump. Just be sure to only any
>> check valve between the pump and the splitter.
> ====================================
> Ok, gotcha. I always have 3 to 4 airstones running from each air-pump
> and of course they're indoors so I can immediately see if they're
> slowing down. That's what made me wonder if the bother of making a
> plenum was worth the effort. I don't always have check valves as some
> are above the tanks. I change the stones so often I don't get to
> witness this slowing down.
>
> Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in?
> There's little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There
> must be more to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn.
> What other parts are known to go on them?
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...


I hope you don't mind that I've trimmed your crosspost (better a little
less these days).

The primary failure is the diaphragm (takes the most abuse). The
flappers (sets of 2) is the next to go (usually hardening and leaking
pressure the wrong way). After that, the failure modes become much more
uncommon for a single or double diaphragm air pump. The sleeve where the
arm pivots, might be causing too much resistance (might need lubrication
or adjustment). In some cases, the distance between the arm's magnet and
the electromagnet increased, so the arm doesn't go through a full swing
or with as much force.

Some other possibilities are that the air lines are too small a diameter
and/or too long, there is some restrictions (some pumps have a grill
which can get clogged with dust), or that the pump has developed a leak
(behind the plastic pump housing, opposite the diaphragm is sometimes a
flat rubber gasket which may have gotten embrittled and is leaking, or is
simply loose - or the connection between the pump-airline-bulkhead
connector might be leaking). hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Roy]

I'll give you one clue dumbass........its not the humidity, or none
of mine would work....now go get a clue, looser. You got all the info
from me you'll ever get if its directed directly to you in response to
your assinine statements........The problem is as simple as can be to
make right........but you have to know and have a bit of intelligence
so that leaves you out in the dark. Perhaps one of your knowledgeable
sock puppets may care to chime in and help you.......
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:38:28 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>><>> I've used various common air pumps; none have failed
>><>> in 3+ years. I switched to bubble wands (soft rubber?
>><>> and flexible) a year or so ago which supposedly put less
>><>> back pressure on the pump. In moderately to heavily
>><>> planted tanks, I only run the air pumps overnight.
>><>=====================
>><>There must be some problem with humidity then... after all I have most of
>><>them in the humid plant room. Others are outside in rain proof boxes with
>><>the line running to the pools in summer. Since the repair kits fail to
>><>repair them it has to be something OTHER then just worn flappers and
>><>diaphragms. I need to find out what that "something" is.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Koi-Lo]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> ==============================================
> I've heard of this. I may try it if I ever use the old style stones
> again. I used to just toss them when they slowed down. Now I use those
> cheap throw-away stones. I lucked out one a large number of them for near
> nothing. At my age they're probably going to be a lifetime supply. :-)

Let's hope you only have 2 more airstones left.

If you want an airstone that will last a millennium, do this, if you're
truly as frugal as pretend to be.

Buy a 1 foot section of 1" pvc pipe.
a handful SOS Tuffy nylon scouring pads
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZWAJW/
a couple of reducing bushings to go from 1" to 1/2" (air comes out of this
end)
airline hose

Take a 1" pvc pipe, stuff as many SOS nylon tuffy/scouring pads as you can
into it, the more the better.
Connecting the air hose to the pipe is left as an exercise to the reader.

You won't get a fine mist of bubbles the way you would with limewood air
diffuser, but good enough for a pond.

[Koi-Lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in? There's
>> little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There must be
>> more to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn. What other
>> parts are known to go on them?
------------------------>
> I hope you don't mind that I've trimmed your crosspost (better a little
> less these days).
>
> The primary failure is the diaphragm (takes the most abuse). The flappers
> (sets of 2) is the next to go (usually hardening and leaking pressure the
> wrong way). After that, the failure modes become much more uncommon for a
> single or double diaphragm air pump. The sleeve where the arm pivots,
> might be causing too much resistance (might need lubrication or
> adjustment).

How do you check it? I never saw anything that looked like it needed
lubrication inside them.

In some cases, the distance between the arm's magnet and
> the electromagnet increased, so the arm doesn't go through a full swing or
> with as much force.

But how can we check to know these things? We have no idea of what
clearances or distances are needed.

> Some other possibilities are that the air lines are too small a diameter
> and/or too long, there is some restrictions (some pumps have a grill which
> can get clogged with dust), or that the pump has developed a leak (behind
> the plastic pump housing, opposite the diaphragm is sometimes a flat
> rubber gasket which may have gotten embrittled and is leaking, or is
> simply loose - or the connection between the pump-airline-bulkhead
> connector might be leaking). hth

Oh, GEEZE! I'm going to take then apart again and have a looks. I wish
there was a store here that had someone to look at them. They all sell
replacement parts but are otherwise clueless.

OK, I just took this Malaysian one apart and have no way to know what the
clearances should be. The arms still swing back and forth.... I'm
lost..... and now I can't find the box with the repair kits. Since I
organized everything in a new organizer with draws I can't anything. :-(

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[CanadianCray]

Just make some changes & see if it gets any better.


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in? There's
>>> little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There must be
>>> more to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn. What
>>> other parts are known to go on them?
> ------------------------>
>> I hope you don't mind that I've trimmed your crosspost (better a little
>> less these days).
>>
>> The primary failure is the diaphragm (takes the most abuse). The
>> flappers (sets of 2) is the next to go (usually hardening and leaking
>> pressure the wrong way). After that, the failure modes become much more
>> uncommon for a single or double diaphragm air pump. The sleeve where the
>> arm pivots, might be causing too much resistance (might need lubrication
>> or adjustment).
>
> How do you check it? I never saw anything that looked like it needed
> lubrication inside them.
>
> In some cases, the distance between the arm's magnet and
>> the electromagnet increased, so the arm doesn't go through a full swing
>> or with as much force.
>
> But how can we check to know these things? We have no idea of what
> clearances or distances are needed.
>
>> Some other possibilities are that the air lines are too small a diameter
>> and/or too long, there is some restrictions (some pumps have a grill
>> which can get clogged with dust), or that the pump has developed a leak
>> (behind the plastic pump housing, opposite the diaphragm is sometimes a
>> flat rubber gasket which may have gotten embrittled and is leaking, or is
>> simply loose - or the connection between the pump-airline-bulkhead
>> connector might be leaking). hth
>
> Oh, GEEZE! I'm going to take then apart again and have a looks. I wish
> there was a store here that had someone to look at them. They all sell
> replacement parts but are otherwise clueless.
>
> OK, I just took this Malaysian one apart and have no way to know what the
> clearances should be. The arms still swing back and forth.... I'm
> lost..... and now I can't find the box with the repair kits. Since I
> organized everything in a new organizer with draws I can't anything. :-(
>
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

lol, that's what I do too, but I think Koi-lo needs a *little* more
direction than that ;~).

With the diaphragm off, make sure the arm moves easily through the tiny
arc it would normally travel. If it's tight then lubricate/loosen as
required.

In regards to the distance between the magnet on the arm and the fixed
electromagnet (I'm forgetting all the technical terms), the closer it is,
the better (until it makes actual contact). This is normally a fixed
length, so you usually have to be particularly diabolical (like me :o) to
mess this up to start with.

PS: I hate re-organizing too. Takes months to find anything again.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
> Just make some changes & see if it gets any better.
>
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "NetMax" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in?
>>>> There's little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever.
>>>> There must be more to it then just the diaphragms and flappers
>>>> getting worn. What other parts are known to go on them?
>> ------------------------>
>>> I hope you don't mind that I've trimmed your crosspost (better a
>>> little less these days).
>>>
>>> The primary failure is the diaphragm (takes the most abuse). The
>>> flappers (sets of 2) is the next to go (usually hardening and leaking
>>> pressure the wrong way). After that, the failure modes become much
>>> more uncommon for a single or double diaphragm air pump. The sleeve
>>> where the arm pivots, might be causing too much resistance (might
>>> need lubrication or adjustment).
>>
>> How do you check it? I never saw anything that looked like it needed
>> lubrication inside them.
>>
>> In some cases, the distance between the arm's magnet and
>>> the electromagnet increased, so the arm doesn't go through a full
>>> swing or with as much force.
>>
>> But how can we check to know these things? We have no idea of what
>> clearances or distances are needed.
>>
>>> Some other possibilities are that the air lines are too small a
>>> diameter and/or too long, there is some restrictions (some pumps have
>>> a grill which can get clogged with dust), or that the pump has
>>> developed a leak (behind the plastic pump housing, opposite the
>>> diaphragm is sometimes a flat rubber gasket which may have gotten
>>> embrittled and is leaking, or is simply loose - or the connection
>>> between the pump-airline-bulkhead connector might be leaking). hth
>>
>> Oh, GEEZE! I'm going to take then apart again and have a looks. I
>> wish there was a store here that had someone to look at them. They
>> all sell replacement parts but are otherwise clueless.
>>
>> OK, I just took this Malaysian one apart and have no way to know what
>> the clearances should be. The arms still swing back and forth....
>> I'm lost..... and now I can't find the box with the repair kits.
>> Since I organized everything in a new organizer with draws I can't
>> anything. :-(
>>
>> --
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> Aquariums since 1952
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>

[Sean]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ==============================================
>> I've heard of this. I may try it if I ever use the old style stones
>> again. I used to just toss them when they slowed down. Now I use those
>> cheap throw-away stones. I lucked out one a large number of them for
>> near nothing. At my age they're probably going to be a lifetime supply.
>> :-)
>
> Let's hope you only have 2 more airstones left.
>
> If you want an airstone that will last a millennium, do this, if you're
> truly as frugal as pretend to be.
>
> Buy a 1 foot section of 1" pvc pipe.
> a handful SOS Tuffy nylon scouring pads
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ZWAJW/
> a couple of reducing bushings to go from 1" to 1/2" (air comes out of this
> end)
> airline hose
>
> Take a 1" pvc pipe, stuff as many SOS nylon tuffy/scouring pads as you can
> into it, the more the better.
> Connecting the air hose to the pipe is left as an exercise to the reader.
>
> You won't get a fine mist of bubbles the way you would with limewood air
> diffuser, but good enough for a pond.


Skip the PVC pipe jobby and get a $5 bubble wall from Wally Mart. So far I
have had it a year and a half now and it gives off a even "misting" of air.


Sean

[Koi-Lo]

Crossposted because I don't known which group you're on.

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> Skip the PVC pipe jobby and get a $5 bubble wall from Wally Mart. So far
> I have had it a year and a half now and it gives off a even "misting" of
> air.
================
Which ones? They have the soft rubber ones and the one made of sandstone.
I have 2 of the sandstone ones and they've worked for months. Which one are
you using? People here call both of them bubble walls or bubble wands.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Sean]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Crossposted because I don't known which group you're on.

lol sorry...rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc

Sean

[Koi-Lo]

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
> Just make some changes & see if it gets any better.
=============
Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore. I took off the
3 different stores in my area and they don't carry them. Bummer,... I'm
going to go through a few catalogs tonight and see if I can find the ones I
need for the pumps I have. They may not have them either. I did locate the
missing ones but none were for the pumps I still have.

We did make changes last time but it made no difference. We bent those
arms one way, then the other.... same. That's why I hesitate to spend more
money on them when I never got them working again in the past. None had
cracks anywhere. I wish I knew what the secret was, to watch someone else
fix one or have them SHOW me how to do it correctly.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> lol, that's what I do too, but I think Koi-lo needs a *little* more
> direction than that ;~).
>
> With the diaphragm off, make sure the arm moves easily through the tiny
> arc it would normally travel. If it's tight then lubricate/loosen as
> required.

Gotcha! ;-)

> In regards to the distance between the magnet on the arm and the fixed
> electromagnet (I'm forgetting all the technical terms), the closer it is,
> the better (until it makes actual contact). This is normally a fixed
> length, so you usually have to be particularly diabolical (like me :o) to
> mess this up to start with.

OK..... ;-)

> PS: I hate re-organizing too. Takes months to find anything again.

There you go! You wouldn't believe how much fish "stuff" I had in the
sunroom. :-( I had to restore some kind of law and order. While it was a
bit of a mess I never lost anything. But now that's it's all nice and
neat....... *sigh*... I can't find a darn thing.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

So that gives you the approval to cross post. Nop you do not have
approval, you just love to cross post, its part of your life and yu
can not stop cross posting, thats what got these forums like they are
with yur unadulterated cross posts that got caught up with you and
your nym shifting...Face it carol your a loser if there ever was
any......

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:17:39 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>Crossposted because I don't known which group you're on.
>><>
>><>"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>><>> Skip the PVC pipe jobby and get a $5 bubble wall from Wally Mart. So far
>><>> I have had it a year and a half now and it gives off a even "misting" of
>><>> air.
>><>================
>><>Which ones? They have the soft rubber ones and the one made of sandstone.
>><>I have 2 of the sandstone ones and they've worked for months. Which one are
>><>you using? People here call both of them bubble walls or bubble wands.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Roy]

And you would still be clueless........

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:40:49 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
>><>> Just make some changes & see if it gets any better.
>><>=============
>><>Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore. I took off the
>><>3 different stores in my area and they don't carry them. Bummer,... I'm
>><>going to go through a few catalogs tonight and see if I can find the ones I
>><>need for the pumps I have. They may not have them either. I did locate the
>><>missing ones but none were for the pumps I still have.
>><>
>><> We did make changes last time but it made no difference. We bent those
>><>arms one way, then the other.... same. That's why I hesitate to spend more
>><>money on them when I never got them working again in the past. None had
>><>cracks anywhere. I wish I knew what the secret was, to watch someone else
>><>fix one or have them SHOW me how to do it correctly.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Gill Passman]

Roy wrote:
>
> And you would still be clueless........
>
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:40:49 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>><>
>>><>"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
. ..
>>><>> Just make some changes & see if it gets any better.
>>><>=============
>>><>Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore. I took off the
>>><>3 different stores in my area and they don't carry them. Bummer,... I'm
>>><>going to go through a few catalogs tonight and see if I can find the ones I
>>><>need for the pumps I have. They may not have them either. I did locate the
>>><>missing ones but none were for the pumps I still have.
>>><>
>>><> We did make changes last time but it made no difference. We bent those
>>><>arms one way, then the other.... same. That's why I hesitate to spend more
>>><>money on them when I never got them working again in the past. None had
>>><>cracks anywhere. I wish I knew what the secret was, to watch someone else
>>><>fix one or have them SHOW me how to do it correctly.
>
>
Hey Roy,

How about sharing with the rest of us who have issues with our air
pumps...you have the expertise....we want it from someone who has
experience....

Gill

[cat daddy]

Carol didn't even last half a day to break her *latest* promise not to
crosspost under her "Koi-lo" persona. Of course, all her remailer socks
bleating her same deranged spew couldn't possibly be her or be held to the
same promise.
Clinical pathological liar.

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> So that gives you the approval to cross post. Nop you do not have
> approval, you just love to cross post, its part of your life and yu
> can not stop cross posting, thats what got these forums like they are
> with yur unadulterated cross posts that got caught up with you and
> your nym shifting...Face it carol your a loser if there ever was
> any......
>
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:17:39 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
> >><>Crossposted because I don't known which group you're on.

[Koi-Lo]

"Sean" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Crossposted because I don't known which group you're on.
>
> lol sorry...rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
==================
So are you using the long soft rubbery ones or the sandstone ones?
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>Cross-Posted because I don't know which group you replied from.
>
>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>> >?!?!?!?! What is a plenum and how is one made for two 10g tanks? How
>> >does
>>>it accumulate pressure and not put back-pressure on the air-pump?
>>
>> Take a one foot length of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Glue (with pvc cement) on two
>> end pieces. Drill holes just big enough to stick some rigit air tubing
>> in it. One in for the pump, as many out as you want. That's it.
>
>How does this extend pump life?

Beats me. If Ihad to guess I'd say it has a greater volume of air
which it can compress into. Less back pressure?

My tanks are on the ground floor, pumps are in the basement
connected to a 1' plenum. This is connected by 5 airline hoses
to an 8' plenum on my rack of tanks. There must be about 5L
of air in those planums.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>How does this extend pump life?
>
> Beats me. If Ihad to guess I'd say it has a greater volume of air
> which it can compress into. Less back pressure?
>
> My tanks are on the ground floor, pumps are in the basement
> connected to a 1' plenum. This is connected by 5 airline hoses
> to an 8' plenum on my rack of tanks. There must be about 5L
> of air in those planums.
=========================
Ok, I think I can see what's happening. I'll make sure there is little to
no backpressure on these pumps. I'm going to see what other type of air
diffusers I can find, perhaps those soft rubbery ones with the perforations.
With my setup it's better to have individual pumps by each set of tanks as
we have no basement. Trying to run airlines around the walls etc. wouldn't
be practical.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

>Thanks Max, I think I understand how it works. I assume making it air-tight
>would be the biggest problem.

Nah. You can find drills the exact same size as rigid airline tubing. Drill
a hole, apply PVC cement to a 1.5" piece of rigid airline tubing, stick it
in , twirl it back and forth a bit and within a few minutes it's usable
although I'd let it sit for a day then run a lot of air through it till
it no longer smells liek xylene. I've done lots of these and never ever
had one leak. PVC cement is really really good when joing these things.

Then you just put a put a 4" piece of airline tubing on it and
a one output brass valve and you're set. Make sure the plenum has
a bleed off at the and that just vents into the air to reduce back
pressure. A pipe cleaner in that bleed will greatly reduce any noise.

Now, wtf is it about air valves? They ALL leak IME over several
decades. The plastic ones are the worst junk ever and even the
brass ones leak right out of the box. I take the needle valve
out and solder them, that fixes the leak.

Are they SUPPOSED to leak or something stupid?

I've NEVER seen an air valve that didn't leak, but at least
you can fix the brass ones.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>"Ross T." > wrote in message
>news:CE3Gf.355070$tl.327305@pd7tw3no...
>> You could probably use shoe goo or silicone. :0)
>>
>I would think the silicone would stick and work the best.

Silicone doesnt work on plastic.

I like the tanks
>scattered around the house which makes it hard to have a central air supply.
>If they were all in the sun-fishroom I would buy one of those (noisy) piston
>air-pumps. I had a friend in NY who had one for years and years but all her
>tanks were on one wall in the basement. Her only complaint was the noise
>from it.

What's under the floor the tanks are on? A basement? Could you
run a plenum down there and just run airlines up through the
floor?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in? There's
>little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There must be more
>to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn. What other parts
>are known to go on them?

Now that's a good question. If the rubber is new and installed properly
there's only two other things that can fail: the magnets or the windings.

My vote goes for the magnets losing strength cause they've overheated.

Come to think of it all the magnets I've seen were the standard ones.

Anybody ever tried refitting these things with rare earth magnets?

Bwah hahahahah...


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore.

You're telling me? I have the last 3 Silent Giant repair kits in exostance :-)

Pumps are lke cars. make sure you can get spare parts befor you invest in one.

Primarily for this reason I like Hagen Optimas or Maximas or whatever the
$40 (CDN retail in sotres) dual output one is).

Dolphins and Jebos are good too apparanly but they don't sell repair kits
for these locally, unlike the hagan pumps.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>the resivoir. It also helps balance flow between devices.

Big time. I could never balance things right before using
a plenum. Now it's real easy and quite consistant.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Gail Futoran > wrote:
>I've used various common air pumps; none have failed
>in 3+ years.

I have lke 5 pumps but only ned touse two now. The newest one is
7 years old. The oldest I bought used 15 years ago. It's had one
new diaphragm. The rest have the original rubber.

I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
A hot pump is a dead pump.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>scattered around the house which makes it hard to have a central air
>>supply.
>>If they were all in the sun-fishroom I would buy one of those (noisy)
>>piston
>>air-pumps. I had a friend in NY who had one for years and years but all
>>her
>>tanks were on one wall in the basement. Her only complaint was the noise
>>from it.
>
> What's under the floor the tanks are on? A basement? Could you
> run a plenum down there and just run airlines up through the
> floor?
=====================
Under the house is just a dark, dank crawl space. You can barely crawl
around under there. I wont get into the huge spiders and snakes.......
:-(

We probably could but I feel that would limit where the tanks can be set up,
furniture rearrangement etc. once holes are drilled through the floor and
carpeting. Having the airpump with each set of tanks works fine for us. In
the 55g tanks I'm using inexpensive powerheads to help aerate the water. I
would definitely go for the plenum thing if all the tanks were on one wall
in one room. That would make the most sense.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore.
>
> You're telling me? I have the last 3 Silent Giant repair kits in exostance
> :-)

I can't believe you have ANY!!!! Lucky you. I tossed my SG years ago
because I couldn't locate a repair kit anywhere.

> Pumps are lke cars. make sure you can get spare parts befor you invest in
> one.

Who ever thought the stores here would stop selling them? They were
fixtures as far as I was concerned. Heck, just about everyone with a tank
or two has an air-pump. Wally*World here used to have a good selection.

> Primarily for this reason I like Hagen Optimas or Maximas or whatever the
> $40 (CDN retail in sotres) dual output one is).
>
> Dolphins and Jebos are good too apparanly but they don't sell repair kits
> for these locally, unlike the hagan pumps.

I still have a few that run so I'm going to do some research into them
before spending any more money. I want to know I can get repair parts - but
getting them to work again is still problematic. I remember the evening I
sat here with my husband repairing a box of pumps. Not one ever worked much
better with the new diaphragms and flappers. :-( And yes we did play with
the "arms" and whatever was possible to do with and to them - nothing
worked. I tossed a bunch of them into the trash that night in utter
disgust.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >Why don't they work when new diaphragms and flappers are put in? There's
>>little improvement and in days they're as bad as ever. There must be more
>>to it then just the diaphragms and flappers getting worn. What other
>>parts
>>are known to go on them?
>
> Now that's a good question. If the rubber is new and installed properly
> there's only two other things that can fail: the magnets or the windings.

BINGO! I bet that's it then. After all electric motors fail as well - no?

> My vote goes for the magnets losing strength cause they've overheated.

Would heat affect a magnet? Don't they lose their magnetism over time
anyway?

> Come to think of it all the magnets I've seen were the standard ones.
>
> Anybody ever tried refitting these things with rare earth magnets?

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Gail Futoran > wrote:
>>I've used various common air pumps; none have failed
>>in 3+ years.
>
> I have lke 5 pumps but only ned touse two now. The newest one is
> 7 years old. The oldest I bought used 15 years ago. It's had one
> new diaphragm. The rest have the original rubber.

I checked these disposable "stones" I have and the air goes right through
them. Since I change them constantly I can't see where the back pressure
can be coming from. I don't see any air filters to change that could be
clogging. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!! :-()

> I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
> plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
> when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
> A hot pump is a dead pump.

This may also be part of the answer. The pumps outside are coping with the
high 90sF all summer long, under their rain box - open on the bottom for air
circulation. Now that you mention it the ones in the house
(air-conditioning) do last longer. I'm lucky to get the 6 months summer
season from the ones outside - those in here last about a year. Our house
is about 75F year round. Right now 2 are so buzzy and loud we can't stand
them in the house. I'll use them outside this coming summer but here again,
they're about shot. I guess it doesn't pay to try and get repair kits for
those.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Larry Blanchard]

In response to the original question, I only have one air pump, but it's
been running steadily for nearly a year powering an 8" bubble wand in a
blackworm tank. I can't hear it from 3 feet away. It's a Rena.


--
It's turtles, all the way down

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Now, wtf is it about air valves? They ALL leak IME over several
> decades. The plastic ones are the worst junk ever and even the
> brass ones leak right out of the box. I take the needle valve
> out and solder them, that fixes the leak.
>
> Are they SUPPOSED to leak or something stupid?
>
> I've NEVER seen an air valve that didn't leak, but at least
> you can fix the brass ones.

lol I've used plastic shut-off (restriction) valves which seem to work
very well (but they were not high PSI, weren't feeding airstones). For
balancing valves (gang valves), I'd have to agree with you. Give up on
balancing and try a single shut-off valve to each device?
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>lol I've used plastic shut-off (restriction) valves which seem to work
>very well (but they were not high PSI, weren't feeding airstones). For

The plastic ones worked ok til they inevitably split around the collar,
3 year was about the most I could get out of one. I had better luck with
the clear ones with the brown inserts than the green ones but neither
were up for the long haul.

>balancing valves (gang valves), I'd have to agree with you. Give up on
>balancing and try a single shut-off valve to each device?

Yeah, a single (soldered) brass valve per is what I use now. I could never
get a gang valve to behave predictably or reliably.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>
>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>> >Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore.
>>
>> You're telling me? I have the last 3 Silent Giant repair kits in exostance
>> :-)
>
>I can't believe you have ANY!!!! Lucky you. I tossed my SG years ago
>because I couldn't locate a repair kit anywhere.

Were those great pumps or what? I found these repair kits in the shed
out back of Jim's Exotic Fish on Manchester near LAX in 1989. They're
still in my desk. I found a bunch of Eheim parts there too, enough
to make a filter which Matt Kaufmann burnt up a year later.

Of COURSE I can't find any of my Silent Giants today.

For those of you never lucky enough to see one of these bizzare
things they came out in the 70s or so and were dead quiet - in the
day there was no such thing as a quiet pump, despite names like
"Hush II". They were noisy.

The SG was a white plastic cylinder about 6" tall and about 4" in
diameter. It put out a lot of air and was soooo quet. You quickly
found out why when you had to overhaul it. Open the bottom and
about 2 pounds of oiled #2 gravel fell out. Inside that was a
tin can, literally, which contained the pump mechanism and it was
one you'd never seen before. Bizarre and quite unique to this pump.

And a right pain to replace the diaphragm. You had to *glue* the
new rubber in place. The instructions called for "rubber cement"
and uf you actually used Lepages "rubber cement" it wouldn't stick
worth a damn. Not even close. They really meant "contact cement"
which did work but OY what a fiasco getting that thing on right
as contact cement gave you no room for error. Either you got it
dead right or you had a big mess. You can't move it once the
two glues parts touched each other.

And then you could NEVER get all that gravel back in there and
they weren't really as quiet after that.

Anybody tried those WISA pumps that were to ungodly expensive?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>Would heat affect a magnet?

Oh yeah, big time.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>> A hot pump is a dead pump.
>
>This may also be part of the answer. The pumps outside are coping with the
>high 90sF all summer long, under their rain box - open on the bottom for air
>circulation. Now that you mention it the ones in the house
>(air-conditioning) do last longer. I'm lucky to get the 6 months summer
>season from the ones outside - those in here last about a year. Our house
>is about 75F year round. Right now 2 are so buzzy and loud we can't stand

Buzzy and loud to me means the plates have delaminated. They're toast I'm
afraid.

I've yet to kill an Optima/Maxima even before I had plenums. Truly
hasle free for years. I'm not big on Hagan stuff but these pumps
and their sponge filters I swear by.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[[email protected]]

Goldfish dont use sponge filters, and large glass air stones can be cleaned in
muriatic acid. no reason they should get blocked at all. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Roy]

Thats contrary to what the fish guru Koi Lo says......please clarify.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:24:48 GMT, wrote:
>><>Goldfish dont use sponge filters, and large glass air stones can be cleaned in
>><>muriatic acid. no reason they should get blocked at all. Ingrid
>><>
>><>
>><>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
>><>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
>><>sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
>><>www.drsolo.com
>><>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>><>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><>I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>><>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
>><>any of the recommendations I make.
>><>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
> wrote:
>Goldfish dont use sponge filters,

They do at wholesalers.

>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

No, I did. Sorry, but 300 free websitres for ten years eating all my bandwidth
made me do it.



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

Cross-posted as I don't know which group this came from.

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> > wrote:
>>Goldfish dont use sponge filters,
>
> They do at wholesalers.

I use sponge filters in my outdoor goldfish pools. They work fine but
esthetics are not an issue outside. Large sponges are too hard to hide in
indoor aquariums.

>>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

> No, I did. Sorry, but 300 free websitres for ten years eating all my
> bandwidth
> made me do it.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

In >, on 02/07/06
at 05:40 PM, "Koi-Lo" > said:

>Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore. I took off
>the 3 different stores in my area and they don't carry them. Bummer,...
>I'm going to go through a few catalogs tonight and see if I can find the
>ones I need for the pumps I have. They may not have them either. I did
>locate the missing ones but none were for the pumps I still have.

Check Drs. Foster and Smith website. I don't recall the url, but I know
they sell aquarium supplies, including at least one type of pump repair
kit.


Alan

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------
** Please use address alanh77[at]comcast.net to reply via e-mail. **

Posted using registered MR/2 ICE Newsreader #564 and eComStation 1.21

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>
>>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>>> >Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore.
>>>
>>> You're telling me? I have the last 3 Silent Giant repair kits in
>>> exostance
>>> :-)
>>
>>I can't believe you have ANY!!!! Lucky you. I tossed my SG years ago
>>because I couldn't locate a repair kit anywhere.
>
> Were those great pumps or what? I found these repair kits in the shed
> out back of Jim's Exotic Fish on Manchester near LAX in 1989. They're
> still in my desk. I found a bunch of Eheim parts there too, enough
> to make a filter which Matt Kaufmann burnt up a year later.
>
> Of COURSE I can't find any of my Silent Giants today.
>
> For those of you never lucky enough to see one of these bizzare
> things they came out in the 70s or so and were dead quiet - in the
> day there was no such thing as a quiet pump, despite names like
> "Hush II". They were noisy.
>
> The SG was a white plastic cylinder about 6" tall and about 4" in
> diameter. It put out a lot of air and was soooo quet. You quickly
> found out why when you had to overhaul it. Open the bottom and
> about 2 pounds of oiled #2 gravel fell out. Inside that was a
> tin can, literally, which contained the pump mechanism and it was
> one you'd never seen before. Bizarre and quite unique to this pump.
>
> And a right pain to replace the diaphragm. You had to *glue* the
> new rubber in place. The instructions called for "rubber cement"
> and uf you actually used Lepages "rubber cement" it wouldn't stick
> worth a damn. Not even close. They really meant "contact cement"
> which did work but OY what a fiasco getting that thing on right
> as contact cement gave you no room for error. Either you got it
> dead right or you had a big mess. You can't move it once the
> two glues parts touched each other.
>
> And then you could NEVER get all that gravel back in there and
> they weren't really as quiet after that.

Thanks for the story!

My experience was with the Crown Super Royal air pump. I think this was
the Asian knock-off of the Silent Giant. It was the same size, but a lot
more conventional using 4 diaphagms like a flat 4 Volkswagen engine. I
think I learned much of my mechanical engineering principles of vibration
conductance and amplification by trying to get this thing to run quietly.
My final version had it hanging in a hammock-type diaper inside a dual
walled (overlapping plywood) box with a sound absorbing liner. The final
lessons were i) no matter how quiet you made the pump, noise was still
transferred through the airlines (humming) and ii) airpumps need fresh
air or they will expire (and so ended my career in acoustic engineering
;~). I don't think I ever bought another airpump after that (many many
years now).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Anybody tried those WISA pumps that were to ungodly expensive?
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>My experience was with the Crown Super Royal air pump.

Was that the one that had 4 diaphragms and has a black base
and a transparent blue cylindrical dome? If so I had one
too. Powerful but ohmygod noisy.

There ought to be a museum for things like this :-_



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >My experience was with the Crown Super Royal air pump.
>
> Was that the one that had 4 diaphragms and has a black base
> and a transparent blue cylindrical dome? If so I had one
> too. Powerful but ohmygod noisy.
>
> There ought to be a museum for things like this :-_

That's the one, but I got the name a little wrong. It's a Crowne W.
Super (and the dome is royal blue). Don't ask me how I know that now.

That museum starts in my basement, along with a SuperPet heater, various
hatcheries, fry traps, feeder rings, airstone powered HOB filters and the
first DynaFlo HOBs which used magnetic impellers (which I had to smuggle
in from the US ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>That museum starts in my basement, along with a SuperPet heater, various
>hatcheries, fry traps, feeder rings, airstone powered HOB filters and the
>first DynaFlo HOBs which used magnetic impellers (which I had to smuggle
>in from the US ;~).

Geez, is "aquariumuseum.com" taken?

Cans of mastic. Real Metaframe tanks and hoods (I have a couple), angle iron
tanks, black with white spiderweb paint effects, glass wool, "charcoal" that
was anthracite coal, Hartz Mountain anything, the Pet Library "Enjoy your..."
series, walking catfish, tubifex (no L dammit!) feeders, those stupid little
charcoal cannisters that fit on top of undergravel filter plates, Hush II pumps,
And my favorite, HOB airlift filters. One of these decided to have the airlift
bob about and emptryhalf a 20 gal tank on to my oak bedroom floor when I
was a kid. All night I kept waking up to these weird creaking noises anf
y morning every board had warped. I was 16 I think, and my dad built me a
fishroom right quickly.

Sure, NOW you tell me you have Dynaflow parts.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>I can't believe you have ANY!!!! Lucky you. I tossed my SG years ago
>>because I couldn't locate a repair kit anywhere.

> Were those great pumps or what? I found these repair kits in the shed
> out back of Jim's Exotic Fish on Manchester near LAX in 1989. They're
> still in my desk. I found a bunch of Eheim parts there too, enough
> to make a filter which Matt Kaufmann burnt up a year later.

You found GOLD! The SG was the best airpump I've ever owned. It aerated a
whole wall of assorted tanks in my basement (I don't have a basement here).
And it was just about dead silent. Oh, if I had only bought a few repair
kits at the time.

> Of COURSE I can't find any of my Silent Giants today.

> For those of you never lucky enough to see one of these bizzare
> things they came out in the 70s or so and were dead quiet - in the
> day there was no such thing as a quiet pump, despite names like
> "Hush II". They were noisy.

And it was an irritating humming, almost buzzy noise no less - right out of
the box. :-(

> And then you could NEVER get all that gravel back in there and
> they weren't really as quiet after that.
>
> Anybody tried those WISA pumps that were to ungodly expensive?

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> That museum starts in my basement, along with a SuperPet heater, various
> hatcheries, fry traps, feeder rings, airstone powered HOB filters and the
> first DynaFlo HOBs which used magnetic impellers (which I had to smuggle
> in from the US ;~).
=================
Why don't you start an Aquarium page just for all these "antiques" the
younger crowd never saw? Live worm feeder rings! Geeze, I'd forgotten all
about them. We'd put the live tubafex worms in them and the fish pulled
them through. The air powered HOBs... they were translucent green. I just
tossed a few recently when I organized my fish stuff. I hadn't used them in
over 20 years. :-)

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >That museum starts in my basement, along with a SuperPet heater, various
>>hatcheries, fry traps, feeder rings, airstone powered HOB filters and the
>>first DynaFlo HOBs which used magnetic impellers (which I had to smuggle
>>in from the US ;~).
>
> Geez, is "aquariumuseum.com" taken?
>
> Cans of mastic. Real Metaframe tanks and hoods (I have a couple), angle
> iron
> tanks, black with white spiderweb paint effects, glass wool, "charcoal"
> that
> was anthracite coal, Hartz Mountain anything, the Pet Library "Enjoy
> your..."
> series, walking catfish, tubifex (no L dammit!) feeders, those stupid
> little
> charcoal cannisters that fit on top of undergravel filter plates, Hush II
> pumps,
> And my favorite, HOB airlift filters. One of these decided to have the
> airlift
> bob about and emptryhalf a 20 gal tank on to my oak bedroom floor when I
> was a kid. All night I kept waking up to these weird creaking noises anf
> y morning every board had warped. I was 16 I think, and my dad built me a
> fishroom right quickly.
>
> Sure, NOW you tell me you have Dynaflow parts.
================
Eeeeek! I remember them. Weren't they made by Danner? They were all the
rage in the 1960s. :-))) None lasted us longer than 6 months. We back to
internal air driven box filters. Was it that long ago?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

> wrote in message
.net...
> In >, on 02/07/06
> at 05:40 PM, "Koi-Lo" > said:
>
>>Guess what? The stores DO NOT sell the repair kits anymore. I took off
>>the 3 different stores in my area and they don't carry them. Bummer,...
>>I'm going to go through a few catalogs tonight and see if I can find the
>>ones I need for the pumps I have. They may not have them either. I did
>>locate the missing ones but none were for the pumps I still have.
>
> Check Drs. Foster and Smith website. I don't recall the url, but I know
> they sell aquarium supplies, including at least one type of pump repair
> kit.
==================
Yes, thanks. I just dug out my F&S and Fish Place catalogs to go over
tomorrow.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

>> Sure, NOW you tell me you have Dynaflow parts.
>
>Eeeeek! I remember them. Weren't they made by Danner? They were all the
>rage in the 1960s. :-))) None lasted us longer than 6 months. We back to
>internal air driven box filters. Was it that long ago?

Metaframe made them. The buggers that Ruined Innes' "Aquarium" magazine. Best
magazine in the 60's, then Metaframe bought it and announced for the good
of hobyists they would no longewr be accepting advertising. The magazine
sunk shortly thereafter. Old Aquarium magazines show up on ebay and are
utterly insanely great. You'd never know they were 70 years old. I learn
something from each one I find.

I still have and use inside corner box filters. The Marineland bubble up
is my favorite.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Eric]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 21:57:18 -0600, NetMax wrote
(in article >):

> That museum starts in my basement, along with a SuperPet heater, various
> hatcheries, fry traps, feeder rings, airstone powered HOB filters and the
> first DynaFlo HOBs which used magnetic impellers (which I had to smuggle
> in from the US ;~).
>


My dad bought me a DynaflowII off some guy at work in the late 70's. Near
total piece of crap. it was difficult to slide that little motor box down
that track so that the magnets lined up. And it was siphon fed! Need I say
more?

Still, I was the only kid on the block with a power filter.

-E

[[email protected]]

I believe it was me and the people in my group sent you money to rebuild your
computers. And I was paying for the domain names, personally. You never asked
everyone on all those websites for help with the cost either. Ingrid

(Richard Sexton) wrote:

>In article >,
> > wrote:
>>Goldfish dont use sponge filters,
>
>They do at wholesalers.
>
>>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE
>
>No, I did. Sorry, but 300 free websitres for ten years eating all my bandwidth
>made me do it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[Richard Sexton]

I cannot think of anything more odious than discussing this in public;
suffice it to say if you think I ever recovered the costs of running
this stuff for years you'd be mistaken.

I hate the ads too but they help stop the bleeding a little bit.

In article >,
> wrote:
>I believe it was me and the people in my group sent you money to rebuild your
>computers. And I was paying for the domain names, personally. You never asked
>everyone on all those websites for help with the cost either. Ingrid
>
(Richard Sexton) wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> > wrote:
>>>Goldfish dont use sponge filters,
>>
>>They do at wholesalers.
>>
>>>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE
>>
>>No, I did. Sorry, but 300 free websitres for ten years eating all my bandwidth
>>made me do it.
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
>sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
>any of the recommendations I make.
>AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>>> Sure, NOW you tell me you have Dynaflow parts.
>>
>>Eeeeek! I remember them. Weren't they made by Danner? They were all the
>>rage in the 1960s. :-))) None lasted us longer than 6 months. We back
>>to
>>internal air driven box filters. Was it that long ago?
>
> Metaframe made them. The buggers that Ruined Innes' "Aquarium" magazine.
> Best
> magazine in the 60's, then Metaframe bought it and announced for the good
> of hobyists they would no longewr be accepting advertising. The magazine
> sunk shortly thereafter. Old Aquarium magazines show up on ebay and are
> utterly insanely great. You'd never know they were 70 years old. I learn
> something from each one I find.
>
> I still have and use inside corner box filters. The Marineland bubble up
> is my favorite.
===========================
In a pinch I use them myself, with gravel to hold them down and poly quilt
batting as filter material. I thought I was the only one left on earth
still using these things. I also saved, but don't use, those HOB siphon fed
filters with the motors on top of the box. What a pain they are to
maintain. I couldn't bring myself to toss them out.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
> plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
> when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
> A hot pump is a dead pump.
==================
How do you keep them "cool" when a normal home is around 75F? What about
outside where they have to run and it's in the mid 90s for several months at
a time? What would make them run *too hot?* I don't think many people
would be foolish enough to cover one with a cloth.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>
>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>> I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
>> plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
>> when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
>> A hot pump is a dead pump.
>==================
>How do you keep them "cool" when a normal home is around 75F? What about
>outside where they have to run and it's in the mid 90s for several months at
>a time? What would make them run *too hot?* I don't think many people
>would be foolish enough to cover one with a cloth.

I stuffed one inside a pillow once to shut it up. Didn't work so good
to say the least.

Fans keep things cool.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>I cannot think of anything more odious than discussing this in public;
> suffice it to say if you think I ever recovered the costs of running
> this stuff for years you'd be mistaken.
>
> I hate the ads too but they help stop the bleeding a little bit.

Hosting a website, forum or mailing list has never been cost neutral.
Donations will rarely cover the monthly hosting, hardware, and bandwidth
costs, plus donations are rarely consistent. Hosting a popular site can
easily cost over $50/month.

Let's pretend it hosting the site costs, $25/month, or $300/year. How much
of that was covered through donation, and how much was absorbed by the
person donating server space? I strongly suspect the hosting was done on a
service that costs way more then $25/month.

[NetMax]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> That museum starts in my basement, along with a SuperPet heater,
>> various hatcheries, fry traps, feeder rings, airstone powered HOB
>> filters and the first DynaFlo HOBs which used magnetic impellers
>> (which I had to smuggle in from the US ;~).
> =================
> Why don't you start an Aquarium page just for all these "antiques" the
> younger crowd never saw? Live worm feeder rings! Geeze, I'd forgotten
> all about them. We'd put the live tubafex worms in them and the fish
> pulled them through. The air powered HOBs... they were translucent
> green. I just tossed a few recently when I organized my fish stuff. I
> hadn't used them in over 20 years. :-)
>
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>


Maybe when I'm much older ;~). I'm too young to be making a museum of
stuff I used to use. Besides, some of that stuff I want to forget, like
glass wool which was really GLASS wool.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[AlanM]

I have a similar set up to what you describe. I think that I might try a
small plenum for each aquarium, you know - pump to plenum to aquarium,
rather than just pump to aquarium. Maybe it would still have the benefits.

AlanM


On 2/7/06 7:33 PM, in article
, "Koi-Lo"
> wrote:

>
> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>> scattered around the house which makes it hard to have a central air
>>> supply.
>>> If they were all in the sun-fishroom I would buy one of those (noisy)
>>> piston
>>> air-pumps. I had a friend in NY who had one for years and years but all
>>> her
>>> tanks were on one wall in the basement. Her only complaint was the noise
>>> from it.
>>
>> What's under the floor the tanks are on? A basement? Could you
>> run a plenum down there and just run airlines up through the
>> floor?
> =====================
> Under the house is just a dark, dank crawl space. You can barely crawl
> around under there. I wont get into the huge spiders and snakes.......
> :-(
>
> We probably could but I feel that would limit where the tanks can be set up,
> furniture rearrangement etc. once holes are drilled through the floor and
> carpeting. Having the airpump with each set of tanks works fine for us. In
> the 55g tanks I'm using inexpensive powerheads to help aerate the water. I
> would definitely go for the plenum thing if all the tanks were on one wall
> in one room. That would make the most sense.

[AlanM]

I have a Maxima that I brought out of storage - it's at least 15 years old.
It worked great before being stored and so far works like a charm (fingers
crossed).


On 2/7/06 10:53 PM, in article , "Richard
Sexton" > wrote:

>>> A hot pump is a dead pump.
>>
>> This may also be part of the answer. The pumps outside are coping with the
>> high 90sF all summer long, under their rain box - open on the bottom for air
>> circulation. Now that you mention it the ones in the house
>> (air-conditioning) do last longer. I'm lucky to get the 6 months summer
>> season from the ones outside - those in here last about a year. Our house
>> is about 75F year round. Right now 2 are so buzzy and loud we can't stand
>
> Buzzy and loud to me means the plates have delaminated. They're toast I'm
> afraid.
>
> I've yet to kill an Optima/Maxima even before I had plenums. Truly
> hasle free for years. I'm not big on Hagan stuff but these pumps
> and their sponge filters I swear by.

[AlanM]

I have set noisy air pumps on a sponge - it made a huge difference.


On 2/9/06 10:22 AM, in article , "Richard
Sexton" > wrote:

> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>
>> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
>>> plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
>>> when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
>>> A hot pump is a dead pump.
>> ==================
>> How do you keep them "cool" when a normal home is around 75F? What about
>> outside where they have to run and it's in the mid 90s for several months at
>> a time? What would make them run *too hot?* I don't think many people
>> would be foolish enough to cover one with a cloth.
>
> I stuffed one inside a pillow once to shut it up. Didn't work so good
> to say the least.
>
> Fans keep things cool.

[Koi-Lo]

"AlanM" > wrote in message
...
>I have set noisy air pumps on a sponge - it made a huge difference.
==================
I have one sitting on top of a folded face cloth. That really helped. Oh
for a brand new, out of the box Silent Giant of the 1960s.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"AlanM" > wrote in message
...
>I have a similar set up to what you describe. I think that I might try a
> small plenum for each aquarium, you know - pump to plenum to aquarium,
> rather than just pump to aquarium. Maybe it would still have the
> benefits.
>
> AlanM
================
Let us know how it works out for you. I think I'm going to phase out three
or four of the five 10g tanks as soon as the two 55s are moved into the
diningroom. I may also just stick to the inexpensive powerheads for
aeration. I wont have to worry about making a plenum which I would still
have to SEE to make properly (anyone have a pic of one of these things?).
I'm just not that good going by descriptions. What I'm picturing in my mind
may be way off from the reality of the thing. I have to SEE the thing to
fully understand. Because if I don't make one of these plenums than I have
to worry about too much heat for the pump, backpressure, repair kits that
don't seem to work when we repair the pumps etc........
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[CanadianCray]

LOL funny the little tricks we try. I have actually hung the air pumps with
elastic bands. Really makes them quite.

"AlanM" > wrote in message
...
>I have set noisy air pumps on a sponge - it made a huge difference.
>
>
> On 2/9/06 10:22 AM, in article , "Richard
> Sexton" > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>>
>>> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
>>>> plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
>>>> when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
>>>> A hot pump is a dead pump.
>>> ==================
>>> How do you keep them "cool" when a normal home is around 75F? What
>>> about
>>> outside where they have to run and it's in the mid 90s for several
>>> months at
>>> a time? What would make them run *too hot?* I don't think many people
>>> would be foolish enough to cover one with a cloth.
>>
>> I stuffed one inside a pillow once to shut it up. Didn't work so good
>> to say the least.
>>
>> Fans keep things cool.
>

[AlanM]

I don't know if I have it correct or not, but I'm envisioning a section of
pipe, capped (sealed) at each end as a sort of "buffer chamber".

There are holes drilled in this chamber (and rigid tubing inserted into the
holes) that allow air to enter from the pump and exit to the aquarium(s).

The aquarium in question is about 30" long, so I'll get a piece of pvc pipe
about the same length that will fit behind the aquarium - out of sight I
hope.

There are just two air stones in the riser tubes from an under gravel
filter. I don't really like under gravel filters, but there are a lot of
fry in that aquarium, so it works. The plenum will have one line in and two
lines out.

I guess I'll have to keep an eye on the air stones!

AM


On 2/10/06 10:07 AM, in article
, "Koi-Lo"
> wrote:

>
> "AlanM" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I have a similar set up to what you describe. I think that I might try a
>> small plenum for each aquarium, you know - pump to plenum to aquarium,
>> rather than just pump to aquarium. Maybe it would still have the
>> benefits.
>>
>> AlanM
> ================
> Let us know how it works out for you. I think I'm going to phase out three
> or four of the five 10g tanks as soon as the two 55s are moved into the
> diningroom. I may also just stick to the inexpensive powerheads for
> aeration. I wont have to worry about making a plenum which I would still
> have to SEE to make properly (anyone have a pic of one of these things?).
> I'm just not that good going by descriptions. What I'm picturing in my mind
> may be way off from the reality of the thing. I have to SEE the thing to
> fully understand. Because if I don't make one of these plenums than I have
> to worry about too much heat for the pump, backpressure, repair kits that
> don't seem to work when we repair the pumps etc........

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
AlanM > wrote:
>I have a similar set up to what you describe. I think that I might try a
>small plenum for each aquarium, you know - pump to plenum to aquarium,
>rather than just pump to aquarium. Maybe it would still have the benefits.
>
>AlanM

Yeah, that does work.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"AlanM" > wrote in message
...
>I don't know if I have it correct or not, but I'm envisioning a section of
> pipe, capped (sealed) at each end as a sort of "buffer chamber".
>
> There are holes drilled in this chamber (and rigid tubing inserted into
> the
> holes) that allow air to enter from the pump and exit to the aquarium(s).
>
> The aquarium in question is about 30" long, so I'll get a piece of pvc
> pipe
> about the same length that will fit behind the aquarium - out of sight I
> hope.
>
> There are just two air stones in the riser tubes from an under gravel
> filter. I don't really like under gravel filters, but there are a lot of
> fry in that aquarium, so it works. The plenum will have one line in and
> two
> lines out.
>
> I guess I'll have to keep an eye on the air stones!
======================
Yes, that's pretty much what I'm picturing as well but you still have the
airstones to deal with as if they start to clog there would still be back
pressure in the plenum to some degree unless it has a pressure-relief valve
somewhat like what's on a pressure-cooker. It seem the safest way to use
these pumps for the longest life is not use anything on the end of the hose
that can possibly clog or block the air flow. One person recommend one of
those wands or air-wall diffusers.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

Yup, duct tape works too. I was at a friends house and I took a piece of
duct tape and taped the airpump in a loop (made a cradle for it) inside
the stand's cabinet. Worked like a charm, but I told them it was just a
quick & dirty fix, and they could make it look a little neater when it
came apart. Months later, that duct tape was still hanging in there (it
was a small airpump).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
.. .
> LOL funny the little tricks we try. I have actually hung the air pumps
> with elastic bands. Really makes them quite.
>
> "AlanM" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have set noisy air pumps on a sponge - it made a huge difference.
>>
>>
>> On 2/9/06 10:22 AM, in article , "Richard
>> Sexton" > wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> I just remembered the oher failure mode that's delamination of the
>>>>> plates the windings go around. They make a heckuva buzzing racket
>>>>> when this happens and it's new pump time. Heat seems to do this.
>>>>> A hot pump is a dead pump.
>>>> ==================
>>>> How do you keep them "cool" when a normal home is around 75F? What
>>>> about
>>>> outside where they have to run and it's in the mid 90s for several
>>>> months at
>>>> a time? What would make them run *too hot?* I don't think many
>>>> people
>>>> would be foolish enough to cover one with a cloth.
>>>
>>> I stuffed one inside a pillow once to shut it up. Didn't work so good
>>> to say the least.
>>>
>>> Fans keep things cool.
>>
>
>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
AlanM > wrote:
>
>On 2/10/06 1:15 PM, in article
, "Koi-Lo"
> wrote:
>
>> ======================
>> Yes, that's pretty much what I'm picturing as well but you still have the
>> airstones to deal with as if they start to clog there would still be back
>> pressure in the plenum to some degree unless it has a pressure-relief valve
>> somewhat like what's on a pressure-cooker. It seem the safest way to use
>> these pumps for the longest life is not use anything on the end of the hose
>> that can possibly clog or block the air flow. One person recommend one of
>> those wands or air-wall diffusers.
>
>I'm reluctant to add a pressure relief valve - there's noise to escaping
>air. I have never used a wand or air wall diffuser, but I'm guessing that
>they don't clog. If if that's right, then if one of those wands or air wall
>diffusers was attached to the plenum, that would relieve the any pressure
>created by clogged airstones without adding the noise of escaping air.
>

Stick a pipe cleaner in the bleed off. It muffles the noise. Or run ther
bleed off via a piece of airline tubing through the floor into a place
where nobody will hear it. Thenoise comes out of the end of the tubing.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[~Roy]

They make an air pump muffler, that kills the noise...$1.99 or less.
It can be added to suction sides or pressure sides and works extremely
well.



On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 15:25:47 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Sexton) wrote:
>><>In article >,
>><>AlanM > wrote:
>><>>
>><>>On 2/10/06 1:15 PM, in article
, "Koi-Lo"
> wrote:
>><>>
>><>>> ======================
>><>>> Yes, that's pretty much what I'm picturing as well but you still have the
>><>>> airstones to deal with as if they start to clog there would still be back
>><>>> pressure in the plenum to some degree unless it has a pressure-relief valve
>><>>> somewhat like what's on a pressure-cooker. It seem the safest way to use
>><>>> these pumps for the longest life is not use anything on the end of the hose
>><>>> that can possibly clog or block the air flow. One person recommend one of
>><>>> those wands or air-wall diffusers.
>><>>
>><>>I'm reluctant to add a pressure relief valve - there's noise to escaping
>><>>air. I have never used a wand or air wall diffuser, but I'm guessing that
>><>>they don't clog. If if that's right, then if one of those wands or air wall
>><>>diffusers was attached to the plenum, that would relieve the any pressure
>><>>created by clogged airstones without adding the noise of escaping air.
>><>>
>><>
>><>Stick a pipe cleaner in the bleed off. It muffles the noise. Or run ther
>><>bleed off via a piece of airline tubing through the floor into a place
>><>where nobody will hear it. Thenoise comes out of the end of the tubing.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[~Roy]

Luft pumps by Coralife are by far the best bang for the buck
--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
~Roy > wrote:
>Luft pumps by Coralife are by far the best bang for the buck

Tetra makes Luft pumps.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"AlanM" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 2/10/06 1:15 PM, in article
> , "Koi-Lo"
> > wrote:
>
>> ======================
>> Yes, that's pretty much what I'm picturing as well but you still have the
>> airstones to deal with as if they start to clog there would still be back
>> pressure in the plenum to some degree unless it has a pressure-relief
>> valve
>> somewhat like what's on a pressure-cooker. It seem the safest way to
>> use
>> these pumps for the longest life is not use anything on the end of the
>> hose
>> that can possibly clog or block the air flow. One person recommend one
>> of
>> those wands or air-wall diffusers.
===========================
> I'm reluctant to add a pressure relief valve - there's noise to escaping
> air. I have never used a wand or air wall diffuser, but I'm guessing that
> they don't clog. If if that's right, then if one of those wands or air
> wall
> diffusers was attached to the plenum, that would relieve the any pressure
> created by clogged airstones without adding the noise of escaping air.
===========================
I think I'll bypass plenums and go for something that can't clog. First I
don't have a pic of one to go by, and secondly I'd have to make one for each
set of tanks. I would love to find a way to replace them (air-pump driven
aeration) altogether in the smaller tanks. The powerheads are doing a great
job in the 55s, but would be "too much" in the 10g and smaller tanks, even
the smaller powerheads.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

In >, on 02/10/06
at 05:49 PM, AlanM > said:

>I have set noisy air pumps on a sponge - it made a huge difference.

I can second that. Some pumps stay noisy even on a sponge (those go right
back to the LFS), but I've found that most noisy pumps I have were able to
be silenced by placing them on a sponge. My aquarium is in my bedroom, so
noisy pumps are not welcome.

Even on a sponge, the vibration of the pump sometimes moves it a little
bit and it gets noisy again, but repositioning it quiets things back down.


Alan

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Alan Myers]

On 2/11/06 1:44 PM, in article
, "Koi-Lo"
> wrote:

> ===========================
> I think I'll bypass plenums and go for something that can't clog. First I
> don't have a pic of one to go by, and secondly I'd have to make one for each
> set of tanks. I would love to find a way to replace them (air-pump driven
> aeration) altogether in the smaller tanks. The powerheads are doing a great
> job in the 55s, but would be "too much" in the 10g and smaller tanks, even
> the smaller powerheads.


I'll make one and post some pictures ;-)

AM

[Koi-Lo]

"Alan Myers" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 2/11/06 1:44 PM, in article
> , "Koi-Lo"
>> I think I'll bypass plenums and go for something that can't clog. First
>> I
>> don't have a pic of one to go by, and secondly I'd have to make one for
>> each
>> set of tanks. I would love to find a way to replace them (air-pump
>> driven
>> aeration) altogether in the smaller tanks. The powerheads are doing a
>> great
>> job in the 55s, but would be "too much" in the 10g and smaller tanks,
>> even
>> the smaller powerheads.
>
=========================
> I'll make one and post some pictures ;-)
>
> AM
=========================
I would really appreciate that. One pic is worth a few thousand words.
:-))

Oh, and I did get ONE airpump fixed this morning. The flappers were shot on
an Elete803 although the diaphragm (I didn't have one to fit it) was still
in good condition. I played with the arm as suggested here - and finally
got it working.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>