Newbie here - Water change question

[Mellie101]

Hi, new to the group, so Hello.

I am 4 weeks into cycling my 55g. I have minimal readings for ammonia
and nitrites and 20ppm for Nitrates so hoping that I nearing the end of
this process. I have 3 fish in there who are thriving and having the
time of their lives. I have been changing the water twice a week,
doing smallish changes, around 10%. I have been told to take from the
top of the tank so as not to disturb all the helpful bacteria's forming
in the gravel.

So the question is.... After a month, and with the nitrate level high,
should I start hoovering the gravel or wait until the cycle is
completley over? Should I now do a 25% water change as it has only
been small one's for the past month? Should I now change the charcoal
and sponge filters in my filter or again just wait till the cycle is
finished so that I don't disturb everything that needs to be
established?

Sooo many questions. Don't think that it will be the last either.
Sorry.

Thanks in advance
Mellie

[NetMax]

"Mellie101" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi, new to the group, so Hello.

Hi Mellie101, welcome to the group.

> I am 4 weeks into cycling my 55g. I have minimal readings for ammonia
> and nitrites and 20ppm for Nitrates so hoping that I nearing the end of
> this process. I have 3 fish in there who are thriving and having the
> time of their lives. I have been changing the water twice a week,
> doing smallish changes, around 10%. I have been told to take from the
> top of the tank so as not to disturb all the helpful bacteria's forming
> in the gravel.

Readings sound good. When your nitrites are zero, you're cycled. Taking
water from the top of the tank would be logical if the nitrifying
bacteria were not mostly inside your filter. There is a biofilm of good
bacteria on every surface inside your tank, so this is where the
recommendation comes from (to not disturb the gravel), but it's ok to do
so. Much of the bacteria in the gravel is a type which reproduces very
quickly, so you don't need to worry about it as much as the nitrifying
bacteria which are converting your ammonia and nitrites into nitrates.

> So the question is.... After a month, and with the nitrate level high,
> should I start hoovering the gravel or wait until the cycle is
> completley over? Should I now do a 25% water change as it has only
> been small one's for the past month? Should I now change the charcoal
> and sponge filters in my filter or again just wait till the cycle is
> finished so that I don't disturb everything that needs to be
> established?

Hoover any time. Water change as often as you like (typically 20% a
week, adjusted according to fish-load). The charcoal (or carbon) is
typically used for new tanks (removes any manufacturing residue such as
mold release agents on the filter parts), or to remove trace medications.
You can use it regularly, or as the application requires. Sponge filters
are not normally changed. I have some which are just a little younger
than I am, and they are still working fine. Sponges should be regularly
rinsed in a pail of water which came from the tank (so there is no
chlorine or chloramines to worry about). Do not rinse too well. It
should be clean enough for water to flow through without obstruction. If
your filter permits it, install 2 sponges, and alternate which you clean.
If you let us know your filter manufacturer, someone here can advise you.
Note that since most of the good bacteria is in the filter sponge, you
might cause a mini-cycle if you clean it too well. If it is flowing
well, I'd either leave it alone, or just give it a couple of squeezes in
a pail.

> Sooo many questions. Don't think that it will be the last either.
> Sorry.

: ). No, I expect something else will come up ;~), but we have some
practice at answering questions. :o)
--
www.NetMax.tk who has been asking questions for 35 years.

> Thanks in advance
> Mellie
>

[Mellie101]

Hi, in future i will ask people here rather than my LFS. They told me,
when I bought the filter, that I change the foam and charcoal once a
month and and the media every 6 months. So I made an order of the
charcoal and foam to now realise that the foam last for a very long
time. They did tell me that you rinse the media in the tank and put it
back in the filter. Don't worry I was going to research all this
before doing any of it. :-)

I have a fluval 404. Does seem to go through spurts where it kicks
lots of bubbles out but all in all very happy with it.

So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and then
the other the following week so as not to go through a mini-cycle?
Beginners are very scary, aren't they?

Cheers
Mellie

[Sean]

"Mellie101" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, in future i will ask people here rather than my LFS. They told me,
> when I bought the filter, that I change the foam and charcoal once a
> month and and the media every 6 months. So I made an order of the
> charcoal and foam to now realise that the foam last for a very long
> time. They did tell me that you rinse the media in the tank and put it
> back in the filter. Don't worry I was going to research all this
> before doing any of it. :-)
>
> I have a fluval 404. Does seem to go through spurts where it kicks
> lots of bubbles out but all in all very happy with it.
>
> So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and then
> the other the following week so as not to go through a mini-cycle?
> Beginners are very scary, aren't they?
>
> Cheers
> Mellie

I don't think rinsing the foam is going to affect your tank's cycle. The
media itself is usually the "bio-life support" of the filtration system.
Which brings me to ask the following question. Do many people here use a
charcoal filter? I don't use one at all and was just wondering.


Sean

[Koi-Lo]

"Mellie101" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and then
> the other the following week so as not to go through a mini-cycle?
> Beginners are very scary, aren't they?
================
That's what I would do.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Steve]

Mellie101 wrote:
> Hi, in future i will ask people here rather than my LFS. They told me,
> when I bought the filter, that I change the foam and charcoal once a
> month and and the media every 6 months. So I made an order of the
> charcoal and foam to now realise that the foam last for a very long
> time. They did tell me that you rinse the media in the tank and put it
> back in the filter. Don't worry I was going to research all this
> before doing any of it. :-)
>
> I have a fluval 404. Does seem to go through spurts where it kicks
> lots of bubbles out but all in all very happy with it.
>
> So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and then
> the other the following week so as not to go through a mini-cycle?
> Beginners are very scary, aren't they?
>
> Cheers
> Mellie
>
Fluval 404, a big grey canister filter? I have one of those and also a
15-year old big Fluval canister (304? 403?). Both are on the same 90
gallon aquarium.

I alternate servicing the Fluvals, cleaning one each month so they go
about 2 months. I do have to clean the intake screens at every water
change due to clogging by plant bits.

The 404 has two big flat sponges doesn't it? Your idea of alternating
sponge cleaning is probably a good idea at first, and you will want to
service the filter more frequently than I do, until you figure out your
aquarium. Requirements depend on fish load and other factors.

The 404 also uses some "bio" ceramic noodles, and those can be rinsed.
Also the carbon is not really needed and you can use those baskets for
whatever media you like - I use some crushed coral. Good luck!
Steve

[NetMax]

"Mellie101" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, in future i will ask people here rather than my LFS. They told me,
> when I bought the filter, that I change the foam and charcoal once a
> month and and the media every 6 months. So I made an order of the
> charcoal and foam to now realise that the foam last for a very long
> time. They did tell me that you rinse the media in the tank and put it
> back in the filter. Don't worry I was going to research all this
> before doing any of it. :-)
>
> I have a fluval 404. Does seem to go through spurts where it kicks
> lots of bubbles out but all in all very happy with it.
>
> So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and then
> the other the following week so as not to go through a mini-cycle?
> Beginners are very scary, aren't they?
>
> Cheers
> Mellie


lol, I ran a fish dept, so I have *lots* of experience getting folks
started, and the level of expertise in this group is excellent. Rule 1,
the worst place to get fish advice is frequently the pet shop.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of starting details in this hobby, and
store associates are often teenagers on minimum wage who may not even own
an aquarium, but they may be trying their best.

Foam = sponge filter media (for mechanical & biological filtration), and
that should basically last you the life of the filter. I have a 30
year-old Fluval 201 running with its original sponge filter. The only
real reason to replace it is if the inside of it got completely clogged
(very difficult to do), or you are sterilizing a tank (and in that case,
you can boil them). On a well running tank, I rinse both sponges when I
clean a 404. If your tank is heavily stocked, then you should consider
adding a 2nd filter, and until you did so, you would clean alternate
sponges each time you opened the filter (every 2-4 months?).

Charcoal = carbon filter media (for chemical filtration, adsorbs various
nasties in the water), which we have already discussed. Usage is
optional. It won't hurt anything, though I have read it is better to not
use carbon with planted tanks as it does remove some desirable (to
plants) elements.

The 'media' you mentioned is probably the Bio-max (biological filtration
and that's the only other thing in a 404). These little rings are almost
indestructible. These are apartment buildings for aerobic bacteria along
their surface, and anaerobic bacteria which tunnel down inside the
cracks. You only need to keep the apartment doors open (rinse under
water) so the nutrient and gas molecules to get in and out. The
manufacturer recommends that you change 50% of them every 6 months. I
treat them like sponges, and keep using them for life. It is worthwhile
buying a 2nd box of them. The quantity supplied doesn't really fill the
4 chambers. If you're on a budget, buy the pond version. Bigger ceramic
rings, and a bit cheaper.

Regarding the 404, the bubbles are air entrapment, or a leak somewhere
(sucking air in, possibly along the hose connections). If air
entrapment, it will go away in a few days. If it persists give the
filter a bit of a shake, angling it slowly around too. If it's still
there after a week, then I would suspect an air leak somewhere. These
are quite common and reliable filters, but factory defects occur, so you
want to be on the watch for any unusual behaviour. Are your filter
handles two pieces? This would be their latest, and imo their best so
far. They have had some *bad* models in the past. My 201 is an exercise
in masochism ;~). My 304 is a prince in comparison.

You should pay a visit to the FAQs, particularly
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html

cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

[David]

Mellie101 wrote:
> Hi, new to the group, so Hello.
>
> I am 4 weeks into cycling my 55g. I have minimal readings for ammonia
> and nitrites and 20ppm for Nitrates so hoping that I nearing the end of
> this process. I have 3 fish in there who are thriving and having the
> time of their lives. I have been changing the water twice a week,
> doing smallish changes, around 10%. I have been told to take from the
> top of the tank so as not to disturb all the helpful bacteria's forming
> in the gravel.
>

I have just started cycling my tank less than a week ago. How often do
I need to do water changes and % percentage?

Thanks

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
Mellie101 > wrote:
>Hi, in future i will ask people here rather than my LFS.

Well yeah, we don't make money selling you foam. CHANGE the foam?

Uh, I just rinse it. Mine's about 9 years old now. Buy the best
carbon you can.

>I have a fluval 404. Does seem to go through spurts where it kicks
>lots of bubbles out but all in all very happy with it.

They do that.

>So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and then
>the other the following week so as not to go through a mini-cycle?

Nah. There's enough bugs in the water it'll repopulate itself
very very quickly.

>Beginners are very scary, aren't they?

Not as scary as ex wives.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Sean wrote:
> "Mellie101" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Hi, in future i will ask people here rather than my LFS. They told
>> me, when I bought the filter, that I change the foam and charcoal
>> once a month and and the media every 6 months. So I made an order
>> of the charcoal and foam to now realise that the foam last for a
>> very long time. They did tell me that you rinse the media in the
>> tank and put it back in the filter. Don't worry I was going to
>> research all this before doing any of it. :-)
>>
>> I have a fluval 404. Does seem to go through spurts where it kicks
>> lots of bubbles out but all in all very happy with it.
>>
>> So, another question, should I rinse one foam sponge one week and
>> then the other the following week so as not to go through a
>> mini-cycle? Beginners are very scary, aren't they?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Mellie
>
> I don't think rinsing the foam is going to affect your tank's cycle.
> The media itself is usually the "bio-life support" of the filtration
> system. Which brings me to ask the following question. Do many
> people here use a charcoal filter? I don't use one at all and was
> just wondering.
>
>
> Sean

I never use activated carbon (it has it's uses for temporary things like
possibly cleaning the medication out of the tank's water after a medical
treatment etc.), nor do a lot of others here in this newsgroup. Good luck
and later!

[Koi-Lo]

"Steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> I alternate servicing the Fluvals, cleaning one each month so they go
> about 2 months. I do have to clean the intake screens at every water
> change due to clogging by plant bits.
===================
Cut a hole in an aquarium safe (I use Aquaclear) sponge and pull it over the
screen. No more clogs and no more large crud in the filter itself.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Zod]

Koi-Lo wrote:
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > I alternate servicing the Fluvals, cleaning one each month so they go
> > about 2 months. I do have to clean the intake screens at every water
> > change due to clogging by plant bits.
> ===================
> Cut a hole in an aquarium safe (I use Aquaclear) sponge and pull it over the
> screen. No more clogs and no more large crud in the filter itself.
> --
>> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Carolyn Adamo Gulley
3245 North Lamar Road Mount Juliet TN 37122-7806
Phone 615-459-9345

CArol has been caught in various vicious lies!
Before plaguing ARJW with her nonsense, she use to plague the Health NG
do a google search on Yarrow / windsong / Carol for more details.

http://tinyurl.com/99azt
http://tinyurl.com/87ow4
http://tinyurl.com/d6t5m
http://tinyurl.com/aheek
http://tinyurl.com/ck97r
http://tinyurl.com/cm3dp
http://tinyurl.com/8bscg
http://tinyurl.com/7epdg
http://tinyurl.com/bya3z
When she is best by a man she accuse him of stalking

http://tinyurl.com/8wryt

She engages people in senseless debates about absolutely nothing.

Before you reply, you may want to ask her a few things or only one.
_Where does she get her information?
_Can her information be verified?
_Is the information up to date?

Ask her for evidence of her claims before proceeding with your
conversation with her, if not you may be end up wasting your time and
bandwidth on discussing subjects based on fraudulent and fabricated
information. This is how she manipulates clueless bystanders in
participating with her distributing false information elsewhere?

Facts about Carol:

*She can never present evidence.
*She never reveals the source of her info (because there is none). Her
common reply, is: "everybody already knows". If everybody knew, why
bring it up?
*She always hides her identity. And change her header to avoid
killfiles. A TOS offense
*She cuts and paste, rewrite postings, and will even forge e-mail
addresses
;which her ISP allows her to do. Just ask them:



If your newsgroups has been victim of Carol's MCP and ECP that is off
topic you can report her. Her account is dpc6682112001.direcpc.com and
you may report her by calling 1-800-DirecPC, by emailing us at
, or by writing to:

DirecPC
Customer Care Center
11717 Exploration Lane
Germantown, MD 20876 USA

Her use of remailers can still be traced to her account.No American ISP
like to be
associated with Hate Speech no matter if Hate speech is protected
under the First. It affects their commercial interest.
Then you can contact your own ISP and have them add them to their
block List Direcpc.com

Why does Carol behave as she does?


Carolyn Adamo Gulley of Mt Juliet Tn. Is a life long underachiever.
She did not finish High school in NYC, and lived as a biker gangsters
in the 60's and 70's. She claims on her former website that she has 2
failed
marriages and blames God for her poor choices. It is alleged that she
lost custody of her only son due to substance abuse, (never been
proven however). Dumped in TN by her Second husband, Quote-quote, with
no place to go.


She also has failed attempts at being a JW. She could never attain
their moral standards as dictated in the scriptures, and thus been at
war with them ever since. This has made her a very mentally unstable
woman, her hatred is intense, and due to biker-substance abuse
lifestyle, she now needs aid of a pacemaker.

By reporting her to her ISP, she is made aware, that she is alone in
her insane crusade full of false hoods and forgeries., and that you
the reader does not support hate speech against any religion or person.

[NetMax]

"David" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Mellie101 wrote:
>> Hi, new to the group, so Hello.
>>
>> I am 4 weeks into cycling my 55g. I have minimal readings for ammonia
>> and nitrites and 20ppm for Nitrates so hoping that I nearing the end
>> of
>> this process. I have 3 fish in there who are thriving and having the
>> time of their lives. I have been changing the water twice a week,
>> doing smallish changes, around 10%. I have been told to take from the
>> top of the tank so as not to disturb all the helpful bacteria's
>> forming
>> in the gravel.
>>
>
> I have just started cycling my tank less than a week ago. How often do
> I need to do water changes and % percentage?
>
> Thanks


Depends. For a fishless cycle, no water changes are done until the cycle
is complete, and then to just bring the NO3 levels down.

If there are fish in there, then you do the amount of water changes
necessary to keep the water toxicity from harming/killing the fish. This
amount will vary according to the fish-load, how much you are feeding,
the water temperature and where you are in the cycle.

The ammonia spike is deceiving, as it starts up with a real bang,
sometimes catching you unawares, and then doing twice-daily 50% changes.
By the time the nitrite spike starts, you're more watchful and ready, but
this one lasts longer than the ammonia. You can't do too much water
changing. It will cycle anyways as only trace amounts are needed
(actually the cycling can be slowed if the levels are too high).

I would be looking for bacteria seed, Biospira is the best, or aged
filter media.
--
www.NetMax.tk