Cleaning over the Winter

[Tom Puskar]

I'm in central NJ and we've had a warm season so far. My pond had hardly
frozen over at all and the fish are active most days. The water is crystal
clear but a lot of leaves have figured out how to get into the pond even
though I have netting over it.

My question is should I be removing the leaves and risk disturbing an
otherwise tranquil pond or would it be better to wait until Spring cleaning?

Thanks,

Tom in Howell, NJ

[Koi-Lo]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in central NJ and we've had a warm season so far. My pond had hardly
> frozen over at all and the fish are active most days. The water is
> crystal clear but a lot of leaves have figured out how to get into the
> pond even though I have netting over it.

Net them OUT before they start to decay and cause an algae bloom and
brownish water. They can also cause PH to drop. It may stir up the bottom
and cause cloudy water for a say or two but that will settle.

> My question is should I be removing the leaves and risk disturbing an
> otherwise tranquil pond or would it be better to wait until Spring
> cleaning?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom in Howell, NJ
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tom Puskar]

That's kind of what I was thinking. I'll probably spend some time with them
this weekend.

Enjoyed your web site. My pond grew from a 150 gallon to about 750 gallon
over the past few years. I also have a 300 gallon"indoor pond", a 100
gallon, 65 gallon 29 gallon and 2 10 gallon aquariums all filled
(overstocked!) with goldfish from the outside pond. My wife says one more
tank and she's outta here!

That space in the corner is big enough for a 75 gallon tank!!!

Its good to see there are still a few people in the group who are interested
in discussing ponds!


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm in central NJ and we've had a warm season so far. My pond had hardly
>> frozen over at all and the fish are active most days. The water is
>> crystal clear but a lot of leaves have figured out how to get into the
>> pond even though I have netting over it.
>
> Net them OUT before they start to decay and cause an algae bloom and
> brownish water. They can also cause PH to drop. It may stir up the
> bottom and cause cloudy water for a say or two but that will settle.
>
>> My question is should I be removing the leaves and risk disturbing an
>> otherwise tranquil pond or would it be better to wait until Spring
>> cleaning?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tom in Howell, NJ
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
> That's kind of what I was thinking. I'll probably spend some time with
> them this weekend.
>
> Enjoyed your web site.

Thanks. :-)

My pond grew from a 150 gallon to about 750 gallon
> over the past few years.

I took that same route an now have a 2000g pond as well.

I also have a 300 gallon"indoor pond",

Indoor pond? You mean an aquarium?

a 100
> gallon, 65 gallon 29 gallon and 2 10 gallon aquariums all filled
> (overstocked!) with goldfish from the outside pond. My wife says one more
> tank and she's outta here!

My husband says the same thing but then wants to see any new fish I bring
in - go figure. Common and some fancy goldfish can stay outside all winter
where you live. I'm in zone 6 and mine thrive outdoors year round. I have
the fancies in the house because I like aquariums. There's a NG for GF
fanciers, alt.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish.

> That space in the corner is big enough for a 75 gallon tank!!!

I see another tank in your future. ;-)

> Its good to see there are still a few people in the group who are
> interested in discussing ponds!

Yes, some of us are still here.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tom Puskar]

My "indoor pond" is something of a cross between an aquarium and a pond. It
is a plywood framed box which is roughly 2 ft deep and 4 ft wide and 7 feet
long on the outside dimensions. It has a liner in it and can only be viewed
from the top. I treat it like a pond using pond type filters and aeration.
I figure it contains about 250 or so gallons once you subtract for the
thickness of the walls.

I have about 25 goldfish of various kinds--nothing fancy--comets, shebunkins
and such. They range from about 4 inches to 8-9 inches long. My 20 month
old grand daughter loves to watch them jump around when she comes over to
feed them (truth is so do I!!).

The others are just regular aquariums. I figure I have about 150 fish in
total ranging from last year's hatch to some 4-5 year olds.

You said you're in Zone 6, so am I here in NJ. Where abouts are you?


"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That's kind of what I was thinking. I'll probably spend some time with
>> them this weekend.
>>
>> Enjoyed your web site.
>
> Thanks. :-)
>
> My pond grew from a 150 gallon to about 750 gallon
>> over the past few years.
>
> I took that same route an now have a 2000g pond as well.
>
> I also have a 300 gallon"indoor pond",
>
> Indoor pond? You mean an aquarium?
>
> a 100
>> gallon, 65 gallon 29 gallon and 2 10 gallon aquariums all filled
>> (overstocked!) with goldfish from the outside pond. My wife says one
>> more tank and she's outta here!
>
> My husband says the same thing but then wants to see any new fish I bring
> in - go figure. Common and some fancy goldfish can stay outside all
> winter where you live. I'm in zone 6 and mine thrive outdoors year round.
> I have the fancies in the house because I like aquariums. There's a NG
> for GF fanciers, alt.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish.
>
>> That space in the corner is big enough for a 75 gallon tank!!!
>
> I see another tank in your future. ;-)
>
>> Its good to see there are still a few people in the group who are
>> interested in discussing ponds!
>
> Yes, some of us are still here.
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[Bill Stock]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
> My "indoor pond" is something of a cross between an aquarium and a pond.
> It is a plywood framed box which is roughly 2 ft deep and 4 ft wide and 7
> feet long on the outside dimensions. It has a liner in it and can only be
> viewed from the top. I treat it like a pond using pond type filters and
> aeration. I figure it contains about 250 or so gallons once you subtract
> for the thickness of the walls.

I've got an indoor puddle too, about the same size as yours. This is the
first year for it.

> I have about 25 goldfish of various kinds--nothing fancy--comets,
> shebunkins and such. They range from about 4 inches to 8-9 inches long.
> My 20 month old grand daughter loves to watch them jump around when she
> comes over to feed them (truth is so do I!!).

Mine has nine smallish Goldfish and numerous fry from the outdoor pond. I
also had to move one of the aquarium GF (8") a few weeks ago, as he kept
having water quality issues in the tank (75g).

> The others are just regular aquariums. I figure I have about 150 fish in
> total ranging from last year's hatch to some 4-5 year olds.
>
> You said you're in Zone 6, so am I here in NJ. Where abouts are you?

I'm in 5b (Ontario).

>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> That's kind of what I was thinking. I'll probably spend some time with
>>> them this weekend.
>>>
>>> Enjoyed your web site.
>>
>> Thanks. :-)
>>
>> My pond grew from a 150 gallon to about 750 gallon
>>> over the past few years.
>>
>> I took that same route an now have a 2000g pond as well.
>>
>> I also have a 300 gallon"indoor pond",
>>
>> Indoor pond? You mean an aquarium?
>>
>> a 100
>>> gallon, 65 gallon 29 gallon and 2 10 gallon aquariums all filled
>>> (overstocked!) with goldfish from the outside pond. My wife says one
>>> more tank and she's outta here!
>>
>> My husband says the same thing but then wants to see any new fish I bring
>> in - go figure. Common and some fancy goldfish can stay outside all
>> winter where you live. I'm in zone 6 and mine thrive outdoors year
>> round. I have the fancies in the house because I like aquariums. There's
>> a NG for GF fanciers, alt.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish.
>>
>>> That space in the corner is big enough for a 75 gallon tank!!!
>>
>> I see another tank in your future. ;-)
>>
>>> Its good to see there are still a few people in the group who are
>>> interested in discussing ponds!
>>
>> Yes, some of us are still here.
>> --
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> Aquariums since 1952
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
> My "indoor pond" is something of a cross between an aquarium and a pond.
> It is a plywood framed box which is roughly 2 ft deep and 4 ft wide and 7
> feet long on the outside dimensions. It has a liner in it and can only be
> viewed from the top. I treat it like a pond using pond type filters and
> aeration. I figure it contains about 250 or so gallons once you subtract
> for the thickness of the walls.
>
> I have about 25 goldfish of various kinds--nothing fancy--comets,
> shebunkins and such. They range from about 4 inches to 8-9 inches long.
> My 20 month old grand daughter loves to watch them jump around when she
> comes over to feed them (truth is so do I!!).
>
> The others are just regular aquariums. I figure I have about 150 fish in
> total ranging from last year's hatch to some 4-5 year olds.
>
> You said you're in Zone 6, so am I here in NJ. Where abouts are you?
========================
Just outside of Nashville TN. We can get some cold weather here. I don't
bring my GF in for the winter. I do have some fancies in the house but they
too would probably thrive outdoors year round. My ponds and pools ice over
but I always have a small aerator to keep an opening in the ice for gas
exchange.

Your indoor pond sounds pretty nice. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tom Puskar]

I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering over
my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft to almost
5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and horsetail rush.
The Cana has been in there since November and is about to bloom. I have
other Cana scattered around the house which are in bloom now.

All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put them
back outside.

I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to the
group.

Cheers,
"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My "indoor pond" is something of a cross between an aquarium and a pond.
>> It is a plywood framed box which is roughly 2 ft deep and 4 ft wide and 7
>> feet long on the outside dimensions. It has a liner in it and can only
>> be
>> viewed from the top. I treat it like a pond using pond type filters and
>> aeration. I figure it contains about 250 or so gallons once you subtract
>> for the thickness of the walls.
>>
>> I have about 25 goldfish of various kinds--nothing fancy--comets,
>> shebunkins and such. They range from about 4 inches to 8-9 inches long.
>> My 20 month old grand daughter loves to watch them jump around when she
>> comes over to feed them (truth is so do I!!).
>>
>> The others are just regular aquariums. I figure I have about 150 fish in
>> total ranging from last year's hatch to some 4-5 year olds.
>>
>> You said you're in Zone 6, so am I here in NJ. Where abouts are you?
> ========================
> Just outside of Nashville TN. We can get some cold weather here. I don't
> bring my GF in for the winter. I do have some fancies in the house but
> they
> too would probably thrive outdoors year round. My ponds and pools ice
> over
> but I always have a small aerator to keep an opening in the ice for gas
> exchange.
>
> Your indoor pond sounds pretty nice. :-)
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

NO.. leave the leaves alone. at this time of year the fish immune system is not
working. it is best to not stress fish until 10 days after the temp has been above
55oF and will be for a while. dont disturb a CLEAR tranquil pond.
at low temps there is very little organic degradation going on anyway so the leaves
are going to just basically sit there until the water warms up. BTW, I have heard
that oak leaves because they are acidic and bacteria dont like acidic are somewhat
protective in winter. in any case, at cold temps there is little breakdown of
leaves. it is the "other stuff" like mulm at the bottom that can continue to ferment
and break down giving off toxic gases, like leaves that fell during the summer and
broke down. Ingrid

"Tom Puskar" > wrote:

>I'm in central NJ and we've had a warm season so far. My pond had hardly
>frozen over at all and the fish are active most days. The water is crystal
>clear but a lot of leaves have figured out how to get into the pond even
>though I have netting over it.
>
>My question is should I be removing the leaves and risk disturbing an
>otherwise tranquil pond or would it be better to wait until Spring cleaning?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom in Howell, NJ
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

[2pods]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
>I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering over
>my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft to
>almost 5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and
>horsetail rush. The Cana has been in there since November and is about to
>bloom. I have other Cana scattered around the house which are in bloom
>now.
>
> All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put them
> back outside.
>
> I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to
> the group.
>

I also took my Umbrella plams inside for the winter.
They're just about holding up, which is more than I can say for the WH and
lettuce I took in.
They just disintegrated !

I noticed our small pond already has Blanketweed growing from the edges.
I thought this stuff died in winter ?

Peter

[Koi-Lo]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
>I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering over
>my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft to
>almost 5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and
>horsetail rush. The Cana has been in there since November and is about to
>bloom. I have other Cana scattered around the house which are in bloom
>now.

How are you lighting them? Are they in a sunroom of some kind? What kind
of hostas do you have? I have them but they're not pond plants.

> All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put them
> back outside.
>
> I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to
> the group.

There's an alt.binaries.aquaria NG or you can put it on a free website and
post the URL here.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
> I also took my Umbrella plams inside for the winter.
> They're just about holding up, which is more than I can say for the WH and
> lettuce I took in.
> They just disintegrated !

My umbrella palm faded away in the sunroom. I couldn't keep the spider
mites off of it. I did manage to save a small shoot that's still alive. It
was from the top of the plant. It may not make it until spring. The water
lettuce always lives over in the fishtanks.

> I noticed our small pond already has Blanketweed growing from the edges.
> I thought this stuff died in winter ?

Nope, I have it growing wild in my 800g pond and that pond was drained and
cleaned last fall. I'm in zone 6, not one of the warmest in the USA.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

Carols idea of a sun room is the hole in her trailer roof from when
the pine tree fell on it, and her husband was too lazy to fix, so its
covered with plastic sheeting and they call it a sunroom..........


On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:25:55 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
...
>><>>I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering over
>><>>my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft to
>><>>almost 5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and
>><>>horsetail rush. The Cana has been in there since November and is about to
>><>>bloom. I have other Cana scattered around the house which are in bloom
>><>>now.
>><>
>><>How are you lighting them? Are they in a sunroom of some kind? What kind
>><>of hostas do you have? I have them but they're not pond plants.
>><>
>><>> All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put them
>><>> back outside.
>><>>
>><>> I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to
>><>> the group.
>><>
>><>There's an alt.binaries.aquaria NG or you can put it on a free website and
>><>post the URL here.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Bill Stock]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering over
>>my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft to
>>almost 5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and
>>horsetail rush. The Cana has been in there since November and is about to
>>bloom. I have other Cana scattered around the house which are in bloom
>>now.
>>
>> All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put
>> them back outside.
>>
>> I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to
>> the group.
>>
>
> I also took my Umbrella plams inside for the winter.
> They're just about holding up, which is more than I can say for the WH and
> lettuce I took in.
> They just disintegrated !
>
> I noticed our small pond already has Blanketweed growing from the edges.
> I thought this stuff died in winter ?
>
> Peter

LOL,

I'll send you some WH, they've grown significantly since this picture. :)

[2pods]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "2pods" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering
>>>over my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft
>>>to almost 5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and
>>>horsetail rush. The Cana has been in there since November and is about to
>>>bloom. I have other Cana scattered around the house which are in bloom
>>>now.
>>>
>>> All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put
>>> them back outside.
>>>
>>> I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to
>>> the group.
>>>
>>
>> I also took my Umbrella plams inside for the winter.
>> They're just about holding up, which is more than I can say for the WH
>> and lettuce I took in.
>> They just disintegrated !
>>
>> I noticed our small pond already has Blanketweed growing from the edges.
>> I thought this stuff died in winter ?
>>
>> Peter
>
> LOL,
>
> I'll send you some WH, they've grown significantly since this picture. :)
>
>

Hi Bill,

If only you lived in Scotland.............:-)

Peter

[Bill Stock]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "2pods" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I should have mentioned that I also use the indoor pond for wintering
>>>>over my tropicals. Right now I have 5 umbrella palms ranging from 2 ft
>>>>to almost 5 feet tall in there along with a few Cana, a few hostas and
>>>>horsetail rush. The Cana has been in there since November and is about
>>>>to bloom. I have other Cana scattered around the house which are in
>>>>bloom now.
>>>>
>>>> All of my plants need splitting but I think I'll wait until I can put
>>>> them back outside.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be glad to send a pic but don't think we're supposed to do that to
>>>> the group.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I also took my Umbrella plams inside for the winter.
>>> They're just about holding up, which is more than I can say for the WH
>>> and lettuce I took in.
>>> They just disintegrated !
>>>
>>> I noticed our small pond already has Blanketweed growing from the edges.
>>> I thought this stuff died in winter ?
>>>
>>> Peter
>>
>> LOL,
>>
>> I'll send you some WH, they've grown significantly since this picture. :)
>>
>>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> If only you lived in Scotland.............:-)
>
> Peter

Yeah, I guess shipping might be a bitch! :)

Here's the link to the happy plants I neglected to paste before.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/will_stock/detail?.dir=d0f9&.dnm=36aare2.jpg&.src=ph

[~ jan jjspond]

>That's kind of what I was thinking. I'll probably spend some time with them
>this weekend.

If you have a shop vac I'd go that route over a net. Nets can stir up
sulfates stressing the fish. ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[[email protected]]

"Bill Stock" > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> Here's the link to the happy plants I neglected to paste before.
>
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/will_stock/detail?.dir=d0f9&.dnm=36aare2.jp
> g&.src=ph

Hi Will,

Nice tank and fish pics. Your critter pics tell me, however that you're
owned by those cats. ;-)

I just put some pics in a Yahoo album, but don't see how to get the URL to
publish here. How do you do that?

Will Stock only: Toss the obvious to e-mail me. Thanks.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

[Bill Stock]

> wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote:
>> [ . . . ]
>> Here's the link to the happy plants I neglected to paste before.
>>
>> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/will_stock/detail?.dir=d0f9&.dnm=36aare2.jp
>> g&.src=ph
>
> Hi Will,
>
> Nice tank and fish pics. Your critter pics tell me, however that you're
> owned by those cats. ;-)

:) Yes, I'm a regular in the Pussy group <insert joke here>.

> I just put some pics in a Yahoo album, but don't see how to get the URL to
> publish here. How do you do that?

Just grab the URL from the address bar and paste it in the message.


> Will Stock only: Toss the obvious to e-mail me. Thanks.
>
> --
> Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
> their families:
> http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
>
> Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! !
> !