How fast do tadpoles grow?

[Galen Hekhuis]

About a month ago I had a bulldozer and front end loader come in and scoop
out a big hole in the ground. Actually, the thing looked like it had been
a pond before, in that it was fairly deep and full of water. But someone
had turned it in to a junk pile, with a bunch of willows and weeds growing
around the outside and the inside filled with junk. Mostly the junk was
dead branches and brush, but there were things in there like an old chair
or two, an old bar-b-que grill, a metal desk, other well, uh, junk.
Anyway, all that is gone and now I have a pretty bare 40' in diameter 5'
deep mud puddle. I think the pond might be below the local water table
because as soon as I quit pumping the water out, it filled back up to about
5' deep. The guy who cleaned out the pond told me to get some rye grass
seed because it would sprout real fast, covering up the bare places and
helping control any possible erosion. The store I went to was out of rye
grass seed but the salesclerk sold me some other seed he said would work
just as well. I must have screwed up and made the clerk think I wanted
seed that absolutely would *not* sprout, because that is exactly what I
got. But that's another story.

Some two weeks ago I was out fussing around the pond and noticed about 4
big clumps of frog eggs. I thought that was a little fast, but just
figured I didn't know hardly as much as I thought I did about frogs. Then
today I was out fussing again and saw what looked like a ping-pong ball
with a tail. I couldn't exactly place what it was, so I grabbed a stick
and poked at it. It blinked at me, then lazily swam away. There are
oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far bigger
than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I couldn't
imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader and having
the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't imagine this
tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or was
this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[Roy]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:55:33 -0500, Galen Hekhuis
> wrote:
>><>About a month ago I had a bulldozer and front end loader come in and scoop
>><>out a big hole in the ground. Actually, the thing looked like it had been
>><>a pond before, in that it was fairly deep and full of water. But someone
>><>had turned it in to a junk pile, with a bunch of willows and weeds growing
>><>around the outside and the inside filled with junk. Mostly the junk was
>><>dead branches and brush, but there were things in there like an old chair
>><>or two, an old bar-b-que grill, a metal desk, other well, uh, junk.
>><>Anyway, all that is gone and now I have a pretty bare 40' in diameter 5'
>><>deep mud puddle. I think the pond might be below the local water table
>><>because as soon as I quit pumping the water out, it filled back up to about
>><>5' deep. The guy who cleaned out the pond told me to get some rye grass
>><>seed because it would sprout real fast, covering up the bare places and
>><>helping control any possible erosion. The store I went to was out of rye
>><>grass seed but the salesclerk sold me some other seed he said would work
>><>just as well. I must have screwed up and made the clerk think I wanted
>><>seed that absolutely would *not* sprout, because that is exactly what I
>><>got. But that's another story.

Just what does all that crap above have to do with tadpoles? So now
your pond ois 5 feet buty a month ago it was like 3 feet..Please make
up your mind how deep your pond is...I seriously doubt yu were sold
seed that would not germinate, your just not smart enough to sow it
correctly form the sounds of it.

>><>
>><>Some two weeks ago I was out fussing around the pond and noticed about 4
>><>big clumps of frog eggs. I thought that was a little fast, but just
>><>figured I didn't know hardly as much as I thought I did about frogs. Then
>><>today I was out fussing again and saw what looked like a ping-pong ball
>><>with a tail. I couldn't exactly place what it was, so I grabbed a stick
>><>and poked at it. It blinked at me, then lazily swam away. There are
>><>oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far bigger
>><>than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I couldn't
>><>imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader and having
>><>the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't imagine this
>><>tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or was
>><>this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?

So your weather pattern rained tadpoles. It happens get over it.
>><>
>><> Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
>><> We are the CroMagnon of the future

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 23:25:38 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:55:33 -0500, Galen Hekhuis
> wrote:
>>><>About a month ago I had a bulldozer and front end loader come in and scoop
>>><>out a big hole in the ground. Actually, the thing looked like it had been
>>><>a pond before, in that it was fairly deep and full of water. But someone
>>><>had turned it in to a junk pile, with a bunch of willows and weeds growing
>>><>around the outside and the inside filled with junk. Mostly the junk was
>>><>dead branches and brush, but there were things in there like an old chair
>>><>or two, an old bar-b-que grill, a metal desk, other well, uh, junk.
>>><>Anyway, all that is gone and now I have a pretty bare 40' in diameter 5'
>>><>deep mud puddle. I think the pond might be below the local water table
>>><>because as soon as I quit pumping the water out, it filled back up to about
>>><>5' deep. The guy who cleaned out the pond told me to get some rye grass
>>><>seed because it would sprout real fast, covering up the bare places and
>>><>helping control any possible erosion. The store I went to was out of rye
>>><>grass seed but the salesclerk sold me some other seed he said would work
>>><>just as well. I must have screwed up and made the clerk think I wanted
>>><>seed that absolutely would *not* sprout, because that is exactly what I
>>><>got. But that's another story.
>
>Just what does all that crap above have to do with tadpoles? So now
>your pond ois 5 feet buty a month ago it was like 3 feet..Please make
>up your mind how deep your pond is...I seriously doubt yu were sold
>seed that would not germinate, your just not smart enough to sow it
>correctly form the sounds of it.

A month ago Roy told me that

"...in all my years your the first to ****** their
way into a kill file not due to crap posts but for my not wanting to
deal with a babbling freaking idiot.
Even Koi lo has not managed to get into my kill files as hard as they
try, but your a first."

Remember that? I wonder how you even saw the message.

In any event, it has rained here the past week, and the water rose at least
16 inches (before it submerged the yardstick I had put in there) even
though the weatherguessers said that the accumulation for this area was
less than 6 inches. I didn't have a rain gauge out there so I don't know
exactly how much rain fell here. I guess it was more than 6 inches because
I sure don't see any way water could drain in. The water rose from the 34"
mark to the 35" mark one day while there was no rain whatsoever. I can't
say for sure there wasn't any that night but the yardstick was submerged in
the morning. I planted a bunch of day lilies that had better learn to
become water lilies if they want to survive.

>>><>
>>><>Some two weeks ago I was out fussing around the pond and noticed about 4
>>><>big clumps of frog eggs. I thought that was a little fast, but just
>>><>figured I didn't know hardly as much as I thought I did about frogs. Then
>>><>today I was out fussing again and saw what looked like a ping-pong ball
>>><>with a tail. I couldn't exactly place what it was, so I grabbed a stick
>>><>and poked at it. It blinked at me, then lazily swam away. There are
>>><>oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far bigger
>>><>than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I couldn't
>>><>imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader and having
>>><>the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't imagine this
>>><>tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or was
>>><>this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?
>
>So your weather pattern rained tadpoles. It happens get over it.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[Gail Futoran]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> About a month ago I had a bulldozer and front end loader come in and scoop
> out a big hole in the ground. Actually, the thing looked like it had been
> a pond before, in that it was fairly deep and full of water. But someone
> had turned it in to a junk pile, with a bunch of willows and weeds growing
> around the outside and the inside filled with junk. Mostly the junk was
> dead branches and brush, but there were things in there like an old chair
> or two, an old bar-b-que grill, a metal desk, other well, uh, junk.
> Anyway, all that is gone and now I have a pretty bare 40' in diameter 5'
> deep mud puddle. I think the pond might be below the local water table
> because as soon as I quit pumping the water out, it filled back up to
> about
> 5' deep. The guy who cleaned out the pond told me to get some rye grass
> seed because it would sprout real fast, covering up the bare places and
> helping control any possible erosion. The store I went to was out of rye
> grass seed but the salesclerk sold me some other seed he said would work
> just as well. I must have screwed up and made the clerk think I wanted
> seed that absolutely would *not* sprout, because that is exactly what I
> got. But that's another story.
>
> Some two weeks ago I was out fussing around the pond and noticed about 4
> big clumps of frog eggs. I thought that was a little fast, but just
> figured I didn't know hardly as much as I thought I did about frogs. Then
> today I was out fussing again and saw what looked like a ping-pong ball
> with a tail. I couldn't exactly place what it was, so I grabbed a stick
> and poked at it. It blinked at me, then lazily swam away. There are
> oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far bigger
> than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I couldn't
> imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader and having
> the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't imagine this
> tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or was
> this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?
>
> Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
> We are the CroMagnon of the future

Hi Galen -

I don't know what kind of tadpoles you have,
but I recall reading that different tadpoles
grow at different rates, some very quickly,
maturing in a matter of weeks, others taking a
year or so.

You might check out web sites for your
state or country. Most show local
animal life, how to identify, and so on.

I tend to get in my in-ground pond small green
frogs that produce bunches of tadpoles that
convert in a matter of a month or so to tiny
froglets. A couple of years ago I had toads in
the same pond. But I can't recall how long
their tadpoles/toadpoles took to mature.

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8 USA

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 00:16:03 GMT, "Gail Futoran"
> wrote:

>Hi Galen -
>
>I don't know what kind of tadpoles you have,
>but I recall reading that different tadpoles
>grow at different rates, some very quickly,
>maturing in a matter of weeks, others taking a
>year or so.
>
>You might check out web sites for your
>state or country. Most show local
>animal life, how to identify, and so on.
>
>I tend to get in my in-ground pond small green
>frogs that produce bunches of tadpoles that
>convert in a matter of a month or so to tiny
>froglets. A couple of years ago I had toads in
>the same pond. But I can't recall how long
>their tadpoles/toadpoles took to mature.

Howdy.

I don't know what kind of tadpoles they are either, I just didn't think any
kind of tadpole could get that big in just a month. I've got lots and lots
of frogs around here (also lizards and skinks) so I'm not exactly surprised
to find tadpoles, I just hadn't expected any that big so soon. I live up
in northern Florida, zone 8 also, but it seems to be a bit warmer zone 8
than where you live. By the way, I went to Cambridge Elementary School in
(you guessed it) San Antonio, TX.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[Gail Futoran]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> Howdy.
>
> I don't know what kind of tadpoles they are either, I just didn't think
> any
> kind of tadpole could get that big in just a month. I've got lots and
> lots
> of frogs around here (also lizards and skinks) so I'm not exactly
> surprised
> to find tadpoles, I just hadn't expected any that big so soon. I live up
> in northern Florida, zone 8 also, but it seems to be a bit warmer zone 8
> than where you live. By the way, I went to Cambridge Elementary School in
> (you guessed it) San Antonio, TX.
>
> Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
> We are the CroMagnon of the future

I thought I recognized that "Howdy"! :)

One of the web sites I have bookmarked
from searches I've done to ID frogs, toads,
insects, etc., is the IFAS site:
http://www.wec.ufl.edu/extension/frogs/default.htm
Sometimes I can find a better photo or
description in another State's site than in
Texas sites, although TX does pretty good
in the wildlife area.

Anyway, I hope you can ID your frogs
or toads. They're fun to watch grow.

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 00:56:36 GMT, "Gail Futoran"
> wrote:

>I thought I recognized that "Howdy"! :)
>
>One of the web sites I have bookmarked
>from searches I've done to ID frogs, toads,
>insects, etc., is the IFAS site:
>http://www.wec.ufl.edu/extension/frogs/default.htm
>Sometimes I can find a better photo or
>description in another State's site than in
>Texas sites, although TX does pretty good
>in the wildlife area.
>
>Anyway, I hope you can ID your frogs
>or toads. They're fun to watch grow.

I've never been much good at identifying frogs (or they could be toads, as
you mention) from tadpoles, I have book marked the site, although I suspect
they will have to mature before I get a good ID on them. Thanks for the
site.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
>
> Some two weeks ago I was out fussing around the pond and noticed about 4
> big clumps of frog eggs. I thought that was a little fast, but just
> figured I didn't know hardly as much as I thought I did about frogs. Then
> today I was out fussing again and saw what looked like a ping-pong ball
> with a tail. I couldn't exactly place what it was, so I grabbed a stick
> and poked at it. It blinked at me, then lazily swam away. There are
> oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far bigger
> than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I couldn't
> imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader and having
> the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't imagine this
> tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or was
> this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?
=================================='
It's probably one of last years bullfrog tadpoles that survived the
bulldozer in a small puddle of water.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:39:48 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>It's probably one of last years bullfrog tadpoles that survived the
>bulldozer in a small puddle of water.

Thinking more about it, that's almost what it *has* to be. I am rather
astonished that anything survived the bulldozer and stuff.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[cat daddy]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...

From: "Koi-Lo" >
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How fast do tadpoles grow?
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:39:48 -0600
Organization: Fine Fat Fish
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[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:39:48 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>It's probably one of last years bullfrog tadpoles that survived the
>>bulldozer in a small puddle of water.
>
> Thinking more about it, that's almost what it *has* to be. I am rather
> astonished that anything survived the bulldozer and stuff.
==================
My neighbor bulldozed his stock pond a few years ago as it was filling in
with soil from runoff. I never thought anything would survive but some of
the snapper turtles did. Before we netted our ponds they would migrate over
here when his stock pond got too low.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>





-------------
Get FREE newsgroup access from http://www.cheap56k.com

[cat daddy]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...

>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

From: "Koi-Lo" >
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: How fast do tadpoles grow?
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 22:11:33 -0600
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[Derek]

Galen Hekhuis wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 23:25:38 GMT, (Roy) wrote:
>
> A month ago Roy told me that
>
> "...in all my years your the first to ****** their
> way into a kill file not due to crap posts but for my not wanting to
> deal with a babbling freaking idiot.
> Even Koi lo has not managed to get into my kill files as hard as they
> try, but your a first."
>
> Remember that? I wonder how you even saw the message.

Yeah, well afaict Roy _is_ Koi Lo (at least the abusive one). If only he'd
put us all in his kill file.

Grass is funny. We have a number of types of grass planted around our well
that are generally considered "invasive" - and were invasive where we dug
them up. Four years later, there are still bare patches around the well.

> In any event, it has rained here the past week, and the water rose at
> least 16 inches (before it submerged the yardstick I had put in there)
> even though the weatherguessers said that the accumulation for this area
> was
> less than 6 inches. I didn't have a rain gauge out there so I don't know
> exactly how much rain fell here. I guess it was more than 6 inches
> because
> I sure don't see any way water could drain in.

Unless your pond sides are vertical, the water level _will_ rise faster than
the precipitation rate, but if you're right about the pond being below the
water table then it would keep filling until it reached the water table
level, but rain will increase the subsurface pressure in the whole area,
and speed up the process.

>>>>There are
>>>>oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far
>>>>bigger
>>>>than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I
>>>>couldn't imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader
>>>>and having the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't
>>>>imagine this
>>>>tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or
>>>>was this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?

My bet is on survivor. I doubt it was that lucky - I bet there's a bunch of
critters that survived the digging.

> We are the CroMagnon of the future

Aren't we already the CroMagnon of the past?
--
derek

[Roy]

Sorry to dissapoint you asshole, but Roy is Roy, I hide behind no
nyms, and openily post with my same user name all the time. If I do
change I will notify you...........now go cry to mommy you were told
your wrong, your abaout the biggest cry baby I have ever had the
opportunity to come across.....I bet you wore dresses and panties as a
youngin, you little sissy twerp!

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 10:20:07 -0400, Derek > wrote:
>><>Galen Hekhuis wrote:
>><>
>><>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 23:25:38 GMT, (Roy) wrote:
>><>>
>><>> A month ago Roy told me that
>><>>
>><>> "...in all my years your the first to ****** their
>><>> way into a kill file not due to crap posts but for my not wanting to
>><>> deal with a babbling freaking idiot.
>><>> Even Koi lo has not managed to get into my kill files as hard as they
>><>> try, but your a first."
>><>>
>><>> Remember that? I wonder how you even saw the message.
>><>
>><>Yeah, well afaict Roy _is_ Koi Lo (at least the abusive one). If only he'd
>><>put us all in his kill file.
>><>
>><>Grass is funny. We have a number of types of grass planted around our well
>><>that are generally considered "invasive" - and were invasive where we dug
>><>them up. Four years later, there are still bare patches around the well.
>><>
>><>> In any event, it has rained here the past week, and the water rose at
>><>> least 16 inches (before it submerged the yardstick I had put in there)
>><>> even though the weatherguessers said that the accumulation for this area
>><>> was
>><>> less than 6 inches. I didn't have a rain gauge out there so I don't know
>><>> exactly how much rain fell here. I guess it was more than 6 inches
>><>> because
>><>> I sure don't see any way water could drain in.
>><>
>><>Unless your pond sides are vertical, the water level _will_ rise faster than
>><>the precipitation rate, but if you're right about the pond being below the
>><>water table then it would keep filling until it reached the water table
>><>level, but rain will increase the subsurface pressure in the whole area,
>><>and speed up the process.
>><>
>><>>>>>There are
>><>>>>>oodles of small tadpoles in the water, but this thing was far, far
>><>>>>>bigger
>><>>>>>than any of them. It didn't have any legs or anything either. I
>><>>>>>couldn't imagine anything surviving the bulldozer and front end loader
>><>>>>>and having the water pumped out of the pond, but then again I can't
>><>>>>>imagine this
>><>>>>>tadpole growing in just a month. So how fast do these things grow, or
>><>>>>>was this most likely a (very lucky) survivor?
>><>
>><>My bet is on survivor. I doubt it was that lucky - I bet there's a bunch of
>><>critters that survived the digging.
>><>
>><>> We are the CroMagnon of the future
>><>
>><>Aren't we already the CroMagnon of the past?

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 00:16:03 GMT, "Gail Futoran"
> > wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> I don't know what kind of tadpoles they are either, I just didn't think
> any
> kind of tadpole could get that big in just a month. I've got lots and
> lots
> of frogs around here (also lizards and skinks) so I'm not exactly
> surprised
> to find tadpoles, I just hadn't expected any that big so soon. I live up
> in northern Florida, zone 8 also, but it seems to be a bit warmer zone 8
> than where you live. By the way, I went to Cambridge Elementary School in
> (you guessed it) San Antonio, TX.

Tadpoles have to grow up before the water source dries up. For example,
tadpoles in northern Africa don't have much time, the ponds and puddles dry
up within a month or two. On the other extreme, the Amazon rainforest has
frogs that lay their eggs in the pockets of water that form in the base of
tree branches, because they almost never dry out.

Most tadpoles grow up in a month or two, a few stick around for a year. If
you're worried about the tadpoles, collect them, and drop them off in a
local pond, or creek. Or better yet, fill up a half whiskey barrel with
water, let them grow in that.

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 10:20:07 -0400, Derek > wrote:

>Yeah, well afaict Roy _is_ Koi Lo (at least the abusive one). If only he'd
>put us all in his kill file.

I've been around Usenet for several years, long before Google bought out
the Deja News archives, which weren't even around when I began posting (not
in this group). I've seen jerks come and go.

>Grass is funny. We have a number of types of grass planted around our well
>that are generally considered "invasive" - and were invasive where we dug
>them up. Four years later, there are still bare patches around the well.

Personally, I think it was probably a "bad" bag of grass seed. I know in
other plants the seed should be fresh among other things. Perhaps this bag
was last year's batch, was stored improperly, or something like that. I
could accept the possibility that I might be too dumb to plant grass,
except that I planted it over a variety of ground and soil types and
moisture conditions, and *none* of it sprouted. Even if I were too dumb to
plant it there was enough variety that some of it should have at least
sprouted somewhere. In any event I got some rye grass seed from a
different source, and will be planting that this weekend. The other seed
had warnings all over it about how it was "pen-coated," and they
recommended long sleeves, rubber gloves and the like be worn while
spreading it. They further cautioned that the seed was *not* to be used as
any type of feed, but assured me it was harmless to fish, insects, other
plants, stuff like that. The genuine rye grass seed bag has no such
precautions at all.

>Unless your pond sides are vertical, the water level _will_ rise faster than
>the precipitation rate, but if you're right about the pond being below the
>water table then it would keep filling until it reached the water table
>level, but rain will increase the subsurface pressure in the whole area,
>and speed up the process.

I had thought the pond was pretty much full, or at least within a few
inches of equalizing with the local water table. I guess not, what with
the rise in the water level, and especially with its ability to keep on
rising when there was no rain, not even a cloud in sight. But that would
also mean that the local water table is less than a foot below the ground
level. I guess that's possible except it doesn't quite jive with the local
vegetation nor my experience in digging holes around here.

>My bet is on survivor. I doubt it was that lucky - I bet there's a bunch of
>critters that survived the digging.

I'm impressed. Someone else mentioned how snapping turtles have survived
fairly similar conditions. It seems improbable that anything could
survive, but I could see a turtle making it through long before I could a
(delicate, by comparison) tadpole.

>> We are the CroMagnon of the future
>
>Aren't we already the CroMagnon of the past?

Of course. What I'm trying to say is that I'll bet the CroMagnon felt just
as modern and cutting edge as we do today, yet sometime thousands of years
from now folks may look at us and see us as just as primitive as we now
view the CroMagnon. Consider it just my feeble attempt to condense that
thought into something that would fit in a .signature.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 10:20:07 -0400, Derek > wrote:
>
>>Yeah, well afaict Roy _is_ Koi Lo (at least the abusive one). If only
>>he'd
>>put us all in his kill file.
>
> I've been around Usenet for several years, long before Google bought out
> the Deja News archives, which weren't even around when I began posting
> (not
> in this group). I've seen jerks come and go.
>
>>Grass is funny. We have a number of types of grass planted around our
>>well
>>that are generally considered "invasive" - and were invasive where we dug
>>them up. Four years later, there are still bare patches around the well.
>
> Personally, I think it was probably a "bad" bag of grass seed. I know in
> other plants the seed should be fresh among other things. Perhaps this
> bag
> was last year's batch,

By law the bags have to have dates on them. LOOK for the dates. Never but
last years seed. The bag itself should look clean and new, not like it's
been in a warehouse for months. I've bought new seed that had poor
germination rates probably because of mishandling along the line somewhere.
Or maybe the weather conditions that year didn't favor seedling survival and
growth. Most fresh seed does have a good germination rate.


> I had thought the pond was pretty much full, or at least within a few
> inches of equalizing with the local water table. I guess not, what with
> the rise in the water level, and especially with its ability to keep on
> rising when there was no rain, not even a cloud in sight. But that would
> also mean that the local water table is less than a foot below the ground
> level. I guess that's possible except it doesn't quite jive with the local
> vegetation nor my experience in digging holes around here.

What about some kind of temporary water table. We have that out front in
spring. It's fed by a temporary underground spring or small aquifer. As
summer wears on and rain becomes scarce, it drops until it's "gone?"

>>My bet is on survivor. I doubt it was that lucky - I bet there's a bunch
>>of
>>critters that survived the digging.
>
> I'm impressed. Someone else mentioned how snapping turtles have survived
> fairly similar conditions. It seems improbable that anything could
> survive, but I could see a turtle making it through long before I could a
> (delicate, by comparison) tadpole.

If it had even a quart of muddy water it had a chance. Those little buggers
are real survivors. :-)

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:01 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>By law the bags have to have dates on them. LOOK for the dates. Never but
>last years seed. The bag itself should look clean and new, not like it's
>been in a warehouse for months. I've bought new seed that had poor
>germination rates probably because of mishandling along the line somewhere.
>Or maybe the weather conditions that year didn't favor seedling survival and
>growth. Most fresh seed does have a good germination rate.

In my best Johnny Carson voice, "I did not know that."

I didn't check any dates, and the bag didn't look musty or anything so I
just went with it. I can't say I am familiar with grass or grass seed. I
am philosophically opposed to lawns.

>What about some kind of temporary water table. We have that out front in
>spring. It's fed by a temporary underground spring or small aquifer. As
>summer wears on and rain becomes scarce, it drops until it's "gone?"

Topographically there's not a whole lot of relief here. The elevation is
about 145' to 140' throughout the area. It's high ground for Florida but
the area is still pretty flat. Think of the top of a mesa or a plateau.
There's a sinkhole or so and the Suwannee River runs along a lot of the
border of the county, but it isn't exactly hilly terrain. Near as I can
tell this is pretty much clay on top of the Hawthorn Group, Statenville
Formation of limestone, and there seem to be two water tables, the upper
one is mostly in the clay and is pretty much held there by the more or less
impermeable limestone underneath. I say more or less impermeable
limestone, because the second water table seems to be right in the
limestone itself, about 80' down. That's the depth my well is drilled to
(actually a bit deeper) and that's about the level one would expect the
water table to be, given that the Suwannee River isn't far away at all.
The vegetation suggests a water table that isn't that far below ground
level, and my experiences (especially with this pond) suggest that also.
While the Suwannee River rises in the Okeefenokee Swamp in southern Georgia
and most of its water is traditional runoff and the like, it does pick up
some water here in Florida from underground caves and springs. I think the
surface water here slowly (and I mean slowly, cave divers think the water
in parts of the Florida aquifer is 15,000+ years old) drains down into that
second water table and then out to the Suwannee and then out to sea. I
think your temporary water table idea is spot on, except right here it is
pretty much permanent.

>If it had even a quart of muddy water it had a chance. Those little buggers
>are real survivors. :-)

It had muddy water, that's for sure. On that Florida frog page I saw two
frogs that I see a lot of. The green treefrog and the squirrel treefrog.
Those guys live on the sides of my house, they are constantly getting in
between my screen door and the regular door, they hang around windows at
night to eat the bugs attracted by the light, I constantly find them
sitting in the hinges of my car door. The things are all over the place.
According to that page some say the treefrogs can predict precipitation.
It sure gets noisy here before it rains.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:01 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>By law the bags have to have dates on them. LOOK for the dates. Never
>>but
>>last years seed. The bag itself should look clean and new, not like it's
>>been in a warehouse for months. I've bought new seed that had poor
>>germination rates probably because of mishandling along the line
>>somewhere.
>>Or maybe the weather conditions that year didn't favor seedling survival
>>and
>>growth. Most fresh seed does have a good germination rate.
>
> In my best Johnny Carson voice, "I did not know that."
>
> I didn't check any dates, and the bag didn't look musty or anything so I
> just went with it. I can't say I am familiar with grass or grass seed. I
> am philosophically opposed to lawns.

I like looking at them but don't care for mowing them. I feel they're a
waste of fuel and fertilizer. I tried to let some of my land go back to
nature but it turned into a messy looking weedy tick and chigger ridden
area. Once you have land in lawn it's difficult to let it go back to nature
if it's near your house.

>>What about some kind of temporary water table. We have that out front in
>>spring. It's fed by a temporary underground spring or small aquifer. As
>>summer wears on and rain becomes scarce, it drops until it's "gone?"

Brevity snip ........(and I mean slowly, cave divers think the water
> in parts of the Florida aquifer is 15,000+ years old) drains down into
> that
> second water table and then out to the Suwannee and then out to sea. I
> think your temporary water table idea is spot on, except right here it is
> pretty much permanent.

I never dug down deeper than about 2' to plant some young trees so don't
know where the water table it at by early summer. I'm not far from a lake.
We're all limestone here as well. When they were putting in my driveway
they hit a dry aquifer crossing that end of the property that had to be
filled in to keep the driveway from collapsing. I don't know where that
water is draining through now. It probably works it way around the
blockage.

>>If it had even a quart of muddy water it had a chance. Those little
>>buggers
>>are real survivors. :-)

> It had muddy water, that's for sure. On that Florida frog page I saw two
> frogs that I see a lot of. The green treefrog and the squirrel treefrog.
> Those guys live on the sides of my house, they are constantly getting in
> between my screen door and the regular door, they hang around windows at
> night to eat the bugs attracted by the light, I constantly find them
> sitting in the hinges of my car door.

YES!!! We have the same frogs here in TN. I have a pic of 6 of them on the
diningroom window snarfing bugs drawn to the lights indoors. We see them on
the porch all summer. They're in the hanging plants, up on the rolled
bamboo blinds, even on the overhead fan.

The things are all over the place.
> According to that page some say the treefrogs can predict precipitation.
> It sure gets noisy here before it rains.

Yep! :-))
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Derek]

Galen Hekhuis wrote:

>>My bet is on survivor. *I doubt it was that lucky - I bet there's a bunch
>>of critters that survived the digging.
>
> I'm impressed. *Someone else mentioned how snapping turtles have survived
> fairly similar conditions. *It seems improbable that anything could
> survive, but I could see a turtle making it through long before I could a
> (delicate, by comparison) tadpole.
>
A tadpole makes a very small target :-)
--
derek

[Derek]

Galen Hekhuis wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:01 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>By law the bags have to have dates on them. LOOK for the dates. Never
>>but
>>last years seed.

Funny - I was just reading a novel where a character was handed a jar of
coffee creamer, and notes that she can't see an expiry date or bar code on
it, and it occurred to me that such things are probably required on just
about everything now but I'd never paid much attention to it before.
--
derek

[Koi-Lo]

"Derek" > wrote in message
...
> Galen Hekhuis wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:01 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>By law the bags have to have dates on them. LOOK for the dates. Never
>>>but
>>>last years seed.
================================
> Funny - I was just reading a novel where a character was handed a jar of
> coffee creamer, and notes that she can't see an expiry date or bar code on
> it, and it occurred to me that such things are probably required on just
> about everything now but I'd never paid much attention to it before.
=========
Here in the USA this is true. It may not be the case where you live Derek.
All the seeds here from grass to flowers are dated. Now bulbs seem to be
different for some reason. I couldn't find any date on the bag of bearded
iris I purchased last week.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Roy]

Yea, tadpoles are about as big as koi los brain and about twice as
large ass dereks

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:27:47 -0400, Derek > wrote:
>><>Galen Hekhuis wrote:
>><>
>><>>>My bet is on survivor. *I doubt it was that lucky - I bet there's a bunch
>><>>>of critters that survived the digging.
>><>>
>><>> I'm impressed. *Someone else mentioned how snapping turtles have survived
>><>> fairly similar conditions. *It seems improbable that anything could
>><>> survive, but I could see a turtle making it through long before I could a
>><>> (delicate, by comparison) tadpole.
>><>>
>><>A tadpole makes a very small target :-)

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Roy]

Well I'll be. A sure nuff naaturalist like you do not know about
germination dates on all packs of seeds, you have left me down as I
always thought yu above all would have known better





On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:29:52 -0400, Derek > wrote:
>><>Galen Hekhuis wrote:
>><>
>><>> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:01 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
>><>> wrote:
>><>>
>><>>>By law the bags have to have dates on them. LOOK for the dates. Never
>><>>>but
>><>>>last years seed.
>><>
>><>Funny - I was just reading a novel where a character was handed a jar of
>><>coffee creamer, and notes that she can't see an expiry date or bar code on
>><>it, and it occurred to me that such things are probably required on just
>><>about everything now but I'd never paid much attention to it before.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....