alternative to using suction cups?

[LM]

Hi all,

I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
then stop adhering. floating thermometers and wire-hanging heaters are
fine by me, but floating spray bar can cause problems (or free-floating
intake tube for that matter) especially where I will be aiming the hole
for maximum surface agitation with least noise (will be working on the
compromise, obviously).

are there good alternatives that will not require me spending hours
making a jig or some unsightly contraption to hold it in place
mechanically? I'd hate to spend the time aiming the spray bar in
correct orientation and shortly it will be floating just because the
suction cups stop sticking on to glass aquarium wall... I'd figured
someone must have thought about some elegant solution to this problem.

I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
place...

any suggestiong will be appreciated!

linda

ps this was not an issue with HOT Magnum canister.. now with a
floor-bound canister with intake/output tube that is free-moving, it
makes me think...

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
LM > wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
>canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
>using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
>of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
>then stop adhering.

So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.

I've found the Hagen black ones sold as parts for fluvals last many years,
7-8 years so far and they're still ok but YMMV. They're the same ones
as on the Hagen sponge filters too. The Green Eheim ones are good
too. I have never had luck with the clear ones.

>I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
>spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
>magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
>would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
>non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
>it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
>place...

That'll work. There are rare earth "super manets" that are unbelievably
strong, commonly available. I'm not sure I'd bother siliconing them,
I don't *think* they're gonna rust and anything they leech into the
water is going to be so slow any halfway decent water chage regimen
should take care of it.

If you do use silicone use as thin and flat a layer as you can.

Use the smallest rare earth megnets you can find. They're so damn
powerful then SSSSNAP! into place and can do so with tremendous
force. Enough to break glass? Good question. Possibly.

I have a bunch of spare suction cups and don't worry about these things :-)




--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> LM > wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
>>canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
>>using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
>>of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
>>then stop adhering.
>
> So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.
>
> I've found the Hagen black ones sold as parts for fluvals last many years,
> 7-8 years so far and they're still ok but YMMV. They're the same ones
> as on the Hagen sponge filters too. The Green Eheim ones are good
> too. I have never had luck with the clear ones.
>
>>I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
>>spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
>>magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
>>would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
>>non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
>>it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
>>place...
>
> That'll work. There are rare earth "super manets" that are unbelievably
> strong, commonly available. I'm not sure I'd bother siliconing them,
> I don't *think* they're gonna rust and anything they leech into the
> water is going to be so slow any halfway decent water chage regimen
> should take care of it.
>
> If you do use silicone use as thin and flat a layer as you can.
>
> Use the smallest rare earth megnets you can find. They're so damn
> powerful then SSSSNAP! into place and can do so with tremendous
> force. Enough to break glass? Good question. Possibly.
>
> I have a bunch of spare suction cups and don't worry about these things
> :-)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net


The only thing I can add is that you should tie off the hoses in some way,
such that there is NO stress on the suction cups. With stress they will
fatigue with time. Without the initial stress, they can last for years.
Remember to tie off the hoses somewhere along the path to the filter, so
that filter maintenance does not inadvertently add stress later on.

Some other ideas, sometimes the suction cup stays on and the spray bar pops
out. I've seen cups with an elastic band to go around the pipe (on the
newer Fluval canisters), but I haven't tried them yet. I have used 2 small
ty-raps to do the same thing. One around the cup base, and the other around
the 1st ty-rap and then around the pipe.

After I have the hoses & spray bars in position, I then set about hiding
them, first with strategically positioned rocks and then some silk plants.
I frequently use the rocks to pin the pipes/hoses back against the suction
cups.

hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[fish lover]

You can try to glue the cups. That will solve your problem for sure.
Use the aqua safe glue please. You don't want to kill your fish.

>Hi all,
>
>I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
>canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
>using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
>of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
>then stop adhering. floating thermometers and wire-hanging heaters are
>fine by me, but floating spray bar can cause problems (or free-floating
>intake tube for that matter) especially where I will be aiming the hole
>for maximum surface agitation with least noise (will be working on the
>compromise, obviously).
>
>are there good alternatives that will not require me spending hours
>making a jig or some unsightly contraption to hold it in place
>mechanically? I'd hate to spend the time aiming the spray bar in
>correct orientation and shortly it will be floating just because the
>suction cups stop sticking on to glass aquarium wall... I'd figured
>someone must have thought about some elegant solution to this problem.
>
>I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
>spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
>magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
>would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
>non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
>it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
>place...
>
>any suggestiong will be appreciated!
>
>linda
>
>ps this was not an issue with HOT Magnum canister.. now with a
>floor-bound canister with intake/output tube that is free-moving, it
>makes me think...

[LM]

Hi Netmax,

what's a ty-rap? is that sometime like a cable tie?

your stress theory makes sense. I'll try to lock the outlet pipe in
place externally (cable tie and one of those self-adhesive cable tie
anchors?) and then position the spray bars accordingly..

linda

[LM]

yeah.. I thought of using aquarium silicone to glue the suction cups,
but that would a bit too permanent.. if I ever decide to want to move
things around... wont' work well :-(

linda

[Charles]

On 12 Feb 2006 19:29:07 -0800, "LM" > wrote:

>yeah.. I thought of using aquarium silicone to glue the suction cups,
>but that would a bit too permanent.. if I ever decide to want to move
>things around... wont' work well :-(
>
>linda

the silicone comes off the glass quite easily with a scraper, razor
blade or such. I'm not sure how well it would stick to the suction
cup, though.

[Liz McGuire]

Charles wrote:
>
> the silicone comes off the glass quite easily with a scraper, razor
> blade or such. I'm not sure how well it would stick to the suction
> cup, though.

Just been there and done that - it doesn't stick to the clear suction
cups - don't know if the black are different.

Liz

[Bill Stock]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> LM > wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
>>canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
>>using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
>>of suction cups is that usually within a year or so, they harden, and
>>then stop adhering.
>
> So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.
>

The black ones don't wear out as easily, but they don't seem to stick for me
either. The damn titanium thermometers are always coming loose. Surprisingly
the Eheim spraybar has stuck fairly well, despite the stress from their too
stiff tubing. It did come loose once, but the stiff tubing stopped it from
escaping the tank. The clear suction cups on the Penguin powerheads wear out
in no time. I never have found a replacement for these either.


> I've found the Hagen black ones sold as parts for fluvals last many years,
> 7-8 years so far and they're still ok but YMMV. They're the same ones
> as on the Hagen sponge filters too. The Green Eheim ones are good
> too. I have never had luck with the clear ones.
>
>>I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
>>spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
>>magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
>>would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
>>non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
>>it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
>>place...
>
> That'll work. There are rare earth "super manets" that are unbelievably
> strong, commonly available. I'm not sure I'd bother siliconing them,
> I don't *think* they're gonna rust and anything they leech into the
> water is going to be so slow any halfway decent water chage regimen
> should take care of it.
>
> If you do use silicone use as thin and flat a layer as you can.
>
> Use the smallest rare earth megnets you can find. They're so damn
> powerful then SSSSNAP! into place and can do so with tremendous
> force. Enough to break glass? Good question. Possibly.
>
> I have a bunch of spare suction cups and don't worry about these things
> :-)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article om>,
LM > wrote:
>hi,
>
>any ideas where I can buy the magnets (rare earth types) that is strong
>enough to use through a glass pane? I just did a test case using the
>fridge magnets, and they didn't hold very well :-P

(yes a tie-wrap is a cable tie)

Rare earth magnets are common as dirt. Pun intended:

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=rare+earth+magnets+price

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >, Bill Stock > wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm going to be installing a spray bar on my tank when I switch my
>>>canister filters. Now the question is, is there an alternative to
>>>using suction cups to hold it in place? My experience with all sorts
>>
>> So buy a half dozen spares, replac4e when they get old. End of problem.
>>
>
>The black ones don't wear out as easily, but they don't seem to stick for me

Huh. They seem to work ok for me. The glass has to be scrupulously clean though...

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

"LM" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi Netmax,
>
> what's a ty-rap? is that sometime like a cable tie?
>
> your stress theory makes sense. I'll try to lock the outlet pipe in
> place externally (cable tie and one of those self-adhesive cable tie
> anchors?) and then position the spray bars accordingly..
>
> linda


I think a ty-rap = cable tie, nylon, usually white.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[LM]

Cool! I'll get me some :-)
but it seems like it might be safe to do magnet-to-metal hold instead
of magnet-to-magnet...

linda

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article om>,
> LM > wrote:
> >hi,
> >
> >any ideas where I can buy the magnets (rare earth types) that is strong
> >enough to use through a glass pane? I just did a test case using the
> >fridge magnets, and they didn't hold very well :-P
>
> (yes a tie-wrap is a cable tie)
>
> Rare earth magnets are common as dirt. Pun intended:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&q=rare+earth+magnets+price
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[BadOscar]

I have purchased magnets from this guy http://www.engconcepts.net/ Nice
Guy, Good prices, and quick delivery.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

[Ian Smith]

In article . com>, LM
> wrote:
>I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
>spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
>magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
>would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
>non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
>it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
>place...

I would not put bare magnets in an aquarium. The (usually nickel)
coatings WILL rust in a short amount of time, and then the magnet
material itself will disolve into a pile of dust quickly. They are made
from neodymium, iron and boron.

You might also scratch/chip the glass with them, they ARE stong.

But a quick way to solve it is to coat them in one of those tool handle
plastic dips. I have used Plati-Dip with previous success, it is non-toxic
and can be used on items that handle food. Make sure it dries for
several days just to be on the safe side. I have held plenty of heavy
things in place with sealed NIB magnets.

Try here: www.amazingmagnets.com

1/4 inch magnets should be plenty strong.

--
Ian Smith
www.ian.org <-- Go here for email address.

[Roy]

A bnit late coming in to this post, but I use rare earth magnets
encased in clear acrylic resin to make pico sized mag type cleaners,
as well as magnetic mounts for powerheads etc. They sell magnetic
veggie clips. All magnets are nbot nickle plated, and the rare earth
types will hold up in fresh or salt water just fine......look at how
pump impeller assemblies are made....and thats a rare earth magnet
used in most of the better ones.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:47:08 -0500, "Ian Smith"
> wrote:
>><> In article . com>, LM
> wrote:
>><>>I suppose I can get some high-power magnets, silicone-glue few to the
>><>>spray bar (or spray bar suction cup itself) and use another set of
>><>>magnet outside the tank to hold it in place... but not sure where I
>><>>would even find a magnet strong enough (and right size, and
>><>>non-corroding in the tank.. i'm sure most magnets have enough iron in
>><>>it that will rust when kept in water too long) to keep things in
>><>>place...
>><>
>><>I would not put bare magnets in an aquarium. The (usually nickel)
>><>coatings WILL rust in a short amount of time, and then the magnet
>><>material itself will disolve into a pile of dust quickly. They are made
>><>from neodymium, iron and boron.
>><>
>><>You might also scratch/chip the glass with them, they ARE stong.
>><>
>><>But a quick way to solve it is to coat them in one of those tool handle
>><>plastic dips. I have used Plati-Dip with previous success, it is non-toxic
>><>and can be used on items that handle food. Make sure it dries for
>><>several days just to be on the safe side. I have held plenty of heavy
>><>things in place with sealed NIB magnets.
>><>
>><>Try here: www.amazingmagnets.com
>><>
>><>1/4 inch magnets should be plenty strong.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Ian Smith]

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
>A bnit late coming in to this post, but I use rare earth magnets
> encased in clear acrylic resin to make pico sized mag type cleaners,
> as well as magnetic mounts for powerheads etc. They sell magnetic
> veggie clips. All magnets are nbot nickle plated, and the rare earth
> types will hold up in fresh or salt water just fine......look at how
> pump impeller assemblies are made....and thats a rare earth magnet
> used in most of the better ones.

A rare earth NIB magnet must be coated or it will turn to a pile or rust,
even in open air. They are all coated in a thin layer of nickel or gold to
prevent them from oxidizing or breaking. NIB magnets are not alloys,
but mixtures of finely ground elements pressed together under high
pressure. Thats why they are so brittle. If you have a magnet that is
not coated in something, it's not a NIB.

Acrylic resin is good for coating them too.

If you have a magnet that is not coated, it's probably ceramic and should
be fine in water. If it has a shiny metal coating, you should protect it.
Even
a tiny chip or crack in the thin layer will be enough to disolve it in time.

--
Ian Smith
www.ian.org <-- Email address listed here.

[sylvan butler]

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:55:35 -0500, Ian Smith > wrote:
> A rare earth NIB magnet must be coated or it will turn to a pile or rust,
> even in open air. They are all coated in a thin layer of nickel or gold to

Not in my climate. I have several neodymium magnets which were nickle
coated, but not any more (broken, peeled coating because the glue stuck
better than the plating, etc). No oxidation visible. But I won't put
the uncoated into water. :)

BTW, allelectronics.com often has good prices on various magnets. They
are a surplus house, so stock and selection varies all the time.

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com