getting started

[Ed]

Ok i am just getting started , i have a 75 gallon tank , i was told
that i need to purchase at least that amount of live rock according to
a chain pet store in our community . I was kinda put off by this , so
got the opinion from another store , and not a chain store . To which
they replied with a lil chuckle , and said no not really , but i do
need live in my aquarium . I was also told that i could start off with
molly's . Now unfortunately its too late for me to change over .
What i am asking since i seem to be getting conflicting advise is
to see if anyone with actual experience with this . Could tell me and
give me more advice on this subject . I also have conflicting advice
about using a under-gravel filter along with my fluval canister filter
that i am using now . One person said yeah its the way to go another
said its a ticking time bomb and would end up being more of a problem
then anything .


Thanx in advance
Ed

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Ed,

I'm guessing you are setting up a sal****er tank, even though you did mention a
Molly. (I thought those were freshwater, but....)

Take a look at this page to get you on the right track:

http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

Marc


Ed wrote:

> Ok i am just getting started , i have a 75 gallon tank , i was told
> that i need to purchase at least that amount of live rock according to
> a chain pet store in our community . I was kinda put off by this , so
> got the opinion from another store , and not a chain store . To which
> they replied with a lil chuckle , and said no not really , but i do
> need live in my aquarium . I was also told that i could start off with
> molly's . Now unfortunately its too late for me to change over .
> What i am asking since i seem to be getting conflicting advise is
> to see if anyone with actual experience with this . Could tell me and
> give me more advice on this subject . I also have conflicting advice
> about using a under-gravel filter along with my fluval canister filter
> that i am using now . One person said yeah its the way to go another
> said its a ticking time bomb and would end up being more of a problem
> then anything .
>
> Thanx in advance
> Ed

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[John B]

You can use mollies to cycle your tank. They survive fine in sal****er.
As for the UGF...IMO they're alright if you're doing a FO or FOWLR tank, and
depending on the size of substrate you're going to use too. I have sand in
my tank so I couldn't use the UGF. For the Fluval canister, I'm having no
trouble with mine. I did however remove all the sponge and carbon from it,
added some Chemi-pure and it's basically just a powerhead now. If need be
I'll re-add the sponge to absorb some of the floating particles, but I take
it back out because it becomes a nitrate holding factory -- bad news in
marine.

Since live rock costs so bloody much, add a little at a time, as long as
it's cured! It must be cured before you put it in. I guess uncured is okay
as long as you have the patience to let it cure, but you can't have fish in
the tank at the same time...they'll all die.


"Ed" > wrote in message
om...
> Ok i am just getting started , i have a 75 gallon tank , i was told
> that i need to purchase at least that amount of live rock according to
> a chain pet store in our community . I was kinda put off by this , so
> got the opinion from another store , and not a chain store . To which
> they replied with a lil chuckle , and said no not really , but i do
> need live in my aquarium . I was also told that i could start off with
> molly's . Now unfortunately its too late for me to change over .
> What i am asking since i seem to be getting conflicting advise is
> to see if anyone with actual experience with this . Could tell me and
> give me more advice on this subject . I also have conflicting advice
> about using a under-gravel filter along with my fluval canister filter
> that i am using now . One person said yeah its the way to go another
> said its a ticking time bomb and would end up being more of a problem
> then anything .
>
>
> Thanx in advance
> Ed

[Greg Hewitt-Long]

Marc Levenson > wrote in message >...
> Hi Ed,
>
> I'm guessing you are setting up a sal****er tank, even though you did mention a
> Molly. (I thought those were freshwater, but....)

I think they live in the tidal zone of rivers - I too was told to use
them to cycle - we have 3 of the original 20 left - and we've been
fully running for about 4 months - lost one molly a couple of weeks
ago, but the remaining ones look like they have never been happier.

Our major losses turned out to be a dead molly which had liquefied in
the gravel and wasn't showing in our ammonia tests (water taken with
syringe from the top fee inches).... from that we learned that we
needed:

1. more circulation
2. to remove dead fish once "cycled" - fell into this one as the LFS
said that dead fish would reduce the cycle time - neglecting to tell
us that once cycled it's counter productive!
3. a cleanup crew of hermits and snails that eat anything dead I can't
find under the live-rock.

We've had a lot of "advice" which conflicted - this seems to be
because there is no "one way" of keeping a sal****er tank.

Our holy grail and the one abiding truth seems to be that you can't
have too much live rock - it's the best stuff for our tank as far as
we can tell.

To get lots of live-rock cheaply - we called Jeff's Exotic Fish
(exoticfish.com) and ordered 100lbs of liverock - the cheapest we
could get - cycled it in a rubbermaid with a powerhead and protein
skimmer, then used it as the basis to our tank - adding the cherry
picked stuff from the LFS as the pretty stuff on top. We've now found
that we have a healthy copepod population in less than 3 months - many
people tell us that it takes 6-12 months to get these happy in your
tank... I am sure they came with the live-rock - there is no other
logical explanation!

Anyway - the "cheap" live-rock was $2.25 a lb - plus counter to
counter shipping of about $100 to Denver International - plus time to
drive the hour each way - worked out about $5 a lb - which compares
very favorably with the $13/lb from the LFS.... but we've since found
that we can get live base rock for about that in Denver... not sure on
the comparison.... our base rock was Tonga deep water - which I've
heard is very "pretty" - ours is NOT. It's white and boring - there
was a LOT of sponge die-off during our cycle of this rock - and I mean
a LOT. We probably lost 99% of all the attached life... but it's
STILL liverock!

As for the rest - listen to Marc here - he has the best looking reef
tanks I've seen - I mean the BEST - if you're going reef, his advice
seems to be as good as it gets - if you're going FOWLR - or FO - there
are plenty of methods - I don't use the UGF or canisters - but a sump
with bio-balls, and I have a LOT of macro-algae which grows VERY well
- so well that I'm getting worried that my turbo snails and hermits
might not have enough micro-algae - although I'm not THAT worried to
remove the macro stuff... it's pretty and serves a purpose - I'm
keeping it!

hth

Greg


>
> Take a look at this page to get you on the right track:
>
> http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm
>
> Marc
>
>
> Ed wrote:
>
> > Ok i am just getting started , i have a 75 gallon tank , i was told
> > that i need to purchase at least that amount of live rock according to
> > a chain pet store in our community . I was kinda put off by this , so
> > got the opinion from another store , and not a chain store . To which
> > they replied with a lil chuckle , and said no not really , but i do
> > need live in my aquarium . I was also told that i could start off with
> > molly's . Now unfortunately its too late for me to change over .
> > What i am asking since i seem to be getting conflicting advise is
> > to see if anyone with actual experience with this . Could tell me and
> > give me more advice on this subject . I also have conflicting advice
> > about using a under-gravel filter along with my fluval canister filter
> > that i am using now . One person said yeah its the way to go another
> > said its a ticking time bomb and would end up being more of a problem
> > then anything .
> >
> > Thanx in advance
> > Ed

[Marc Levenson]

Greg, you are too kind. I've seen way better reef tanks, I assure you. I'm pretty darn
critical of my reefs, I guess. The TOTM stuff on RC always (ALWAYS!) blows me away. My 29g
was looking so much nicer 9 months ago, before my appendix burst and life got complicated,
but it still looks good.

I am very proud of my 55g. :)

Marc


Greg Hewitt-Long wrote:

> As for the rest - listen to Marc here - he has the best looking reef
> tanks I've seen - I mean the BEST - if you're going reef, his advice
> seems to be as good as it gets - if you're going FOWLR - or FO - there
> are plenty of methods - I don't use the UGF or canisters - but a sump
> with bio-balls, and I have a LOT of macro-algae which grows VERY well
> - so well that I'm getting worried that my turbo snails and hermits
> might not have enough micro-algae - although I'm not THAT worried to
> remove the macro stuff... it's pretty and serves a purpose - I'm
> keeping it!
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[PaulB]

You can always buy a smaller amount of live rock and use lots of dry base
rock or tufa to make up the difference. It will become live rock over time.


"Ed" > wrote in message
om...
> Ok i am just getting started , i have a 75 gallon tank , i was told
> that i need to purchase at least that amount of live rock according to
> a chain pet store in our community . I was kinda put off by this , so
> got the opinion from another store , and not a chain store . To which
> they replied with a lil chuckle , and said no not really , but i do
> need live in my aquarium . I was also told that i could start off with
> molly's . Now unfortunately its too late for me to change over .
> What i am asking since i seem to be getting conflicting advise is
> to see if anyone with actual experience with this . Could tell me and
> give me more advice on this subject . I also have conflicting advice
> about using a under-gravel filter along with my fluval canister filter
> that i am using now . One person said yeah its the way to go another
> said its a ticking time bomb and would end up being more of a problem
> then anything .
>
>
> Thanx in advance
> Ed
>

[Kelly]

I added one piece of cured rock at a time and that worked fine with my DSB
to get the tank cycled. It also kept the cost where I could manage it. You
also get the advantage of watching for really good pieces when they come in.
Eventually the LFS will get to know you like they did me and even put really
cool ones aside for me.