Refugium conversion

[Mermaid]

Hello all,
I am in the process of converting my wet/dry trickle sump into a refugium.
Does someone make a commercial conversion kit? This sump is only 3 months
old and my husband would kill me if I trashed it. So I need to use it
somehow. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this conversion?

Marc, can you help me. You have been wonderful in the past in helping me.

The reason for this is I am battling HA and someone said if I convert to a
refuge and put macro algae in it, it would compete with the HA and it would
eventually die out. Is this correct? Of course there are other reasons for
getting rid of your bio-balls and growing copods also.

Below is the website that shows my sump. I have the P1000 with only one tube
in the drip plate.
There is a clear version of the top for the drip plate which would let light
through. Would that work?

http://www.aqualifesupport.com/filters.php

Thanks,
Paulette

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Paulette,

That will be a tough one to convert, but it isn't impossible. I just don't like
that foam block in there but I dont' know that you can remove it and still use
the sump in the correct way.

If you removed the bioballs and drip plates, you could put a jug or 2-liter
bottle in the corner with the top section cut off. Cut a bunch of holes near
the bottom of the container, and fill it up with LR rubble. Let the water drain
into the LR rubble and out of the jug into that main first section.

I'd fill the base of that first section with 1" or 2" of Live Sand (seeding sand
with some from your display is fine), and add macro algae such as Cheatomorpha.
Hang a light right over that first section, for about $15.

The next or final section would be your return pump.

And here's the article for fighting GHA:
http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

Anything further would get rather complicated, but this should work for now. No
more wet/drys for reef tanks, okay? :)

Marc


Mermaid wrote:

> Hello all,
> I am in the process of converting my wet/dry trickle sump into a refugium.
> Does someone make a commercial conversion kit? This sump is only 3 months
> old and my husband would kill me if I trashed it. So I need to use it
> somehow. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this conversion?
>
> Marc, can you help me. You have been wonderful in the past in helping me.
>
> The reason for this is I am battling HA and someone said if I convert to a
> refuge and put macro algae in it, it would compete with the HA and it would
> eventually die out. Is this correct? Of course there are other reasons for
> getting rid of your bio-balls and growing copods also.
>
> Below is the website that shows my sump. I have the P1000 with only one tube
> in the drip plate.
> There is a clear version of the top for the drip plate which would let light
> through. Would that work?
>
> http://www.aqualifesupport.com/filters.php
>
> Thanks,
> Paulette

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Mermaid]

Thanks Marc for the help and suggestions.

The sponge block is removable and so is the middle section. It can be a
larger section if need be.

But now I am really confused. My LFS man had a fit when he found out I want
to convert my trickle to a refug and get rid of the bioballs. Said I would
be overrun with nitrates. I thought that is where the nitrates came from in
the first place. But my LR would be my filtering system, I thought.

He said I could put some micro-algae in the middle compartment where the
sponge is. I don't know who to believe.

I just want a happy tank with corals like you guys have. Is that so hard?

Sorry for the vent but I am very frustrated!

Could I turn my trickle around? Wouldn't the rubble in the jug end up just
like the bio-balls?

Arrrggg!
Thanks,
Paulette

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Paulette,
>
> That will be a tough one to convert, but it isn't impossible. I just
don't like
> that foam block in there but I dont' know that you can remove it and still
use
> the sump in the correct way.
>
> If you removed the bioballs and drip plates, you could put a jug or
2-liter
> bottle in the corner with the top section cut off. Cut a bunch of holes
near
> the bottom of the container, and fill it up with LR rubble. Let the water
drain
> into the LR rubble and out of the jug into that main first section.
>
> I'd fill the base of that first section with 1" or 2" of Live Sand
(seeding sand
> with some from your display is fine), and add macro algae such as
Cheatomorpha.
> Hang a light right over that first section, for about $15.
>
> The next or final section would be your return pump.
>
> And here's the article for fighting GHA:
> http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html
>
> Anything further would get rather complicated, but this should work for
now. No
> more wet/drys for reef tanks, okay? :)
>
> Marc
>
>
> Mermaid wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> > I am in the process of converting my wet/dry trickle sump into a
refugium.
> > Does someone make a commercial conversion kit? This sump is only 3
months
> > old and my husband would kill me if I trashed it. So I need to use it
> > somehow. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this conversion?
> >
> > Marc, can you help me. You have been wonderful in the past in helping
me.
> >
> > The reason for this is I am battling HA and someone said if I convert to
a
> > refuge and put macro algae in it, it would compete with the HA and it
would
> > eventually die out. Is this correct? Of course there are other reasons
for
> > getting rid of your bio-balls and growing copods also.
> >
> > Below is the website that shows my sump. I have the P1000 with only one
tube
> > in the drip plate.
> > There is a clear version of the top for the drip plate which would let
light
> > through. Would that work?
> >
> > http://www.aqualifesupport.com/filters.php
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paulette
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Hey Paulette,

Worry not, we will help you....

Mermaid wrote:

> Thanks Marc for the help and suggestions.
>
> The sponge block is removable and so is the middle section. It can be a
> larger section if need be.

Since you alone have the actual parts, you'll have to fill us in on the details
if the suggestions need altering.

> But now I am really confused. My LFS man had a fit when he found out I want
> to convert my trickle to a refug and get rid of the bioballs. Said I would
> be overrun with nitrates. I thought that is where the nitrates came from in
> the first place. But my LR would be my filtering system, I thought.

Wrong! Losing the bioballs will reduce your nitrates.
http://www.melevsreef.com/reducing_nitrates.html

Your LR will definitely help in denitrification, but it can only handle so
much. Once you have nice manageable levels, the DSB and LR will keep it down.

> He said I could put some micro-algae in the middle compartment where the
> sponge is. I don't know who to believe.

If you want the refugium in the center, that is fine too. You just want to
avoid micro bubbles in the display tank, and so you may have to add baffles in
the sump to block those from traveling up to the tank.

> I just want a happy tank with corals like you guys have. Is that so hard?

No, it is indeed possible.

> Sorry for the vent but I am very frustrated!

I don't blame you a bit. It is very hard to get a straight answer because there
are so many variations on what we call success.

> Could I turn my trickle around? Wouldn't the rubble in the jug end up just
> like the bio-balls?

Yes, you can run it in reverse if that is better, but it really won't make any
difference. Water goes in one end out pump out the other. Reverse it and you
still have the same layout.

The LR in the jug will always be wet. The only reason I even suggest the jug is
to stop the billions of bubbles from traveling through your sump. It helps keep
them contained so the majority pops while the clear water travels out the base.
You can see a similar setup in my first sump:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sump.jpg
The water goes into the square area in the corner. Bioballs that are open to
oxygen create nitrates, but those that are completely submerged don't. So start
building your new sump and refugium so you can win your battle and have a
healthy reef tank.

Here's the light I'm using in a simple clamp-on reflector from Home Depot:
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/6500Kspiralbulb.jpg
I saw a 200w light at Costco that was $19.99 that would work exceedingly well
and only used 65w of power.

Marc

>
> Arrrggg!
> Thanks,
> Paulette
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Paulette,
> >
> > That will be a tough one to convert, but it isn't impossible. I just
> don't like
> > that foam block in there but I dont' know that you can remove it and still
> use
> > the sump in the correct way.
> >
> > If you removed the bioballs and drip plates, you could put a jug or
> 2-liter
> > bottle in the corner with the top section cut off. Cut a bunch of holes
> near
> > the bottom of the container, and fill it up with LR rubble. Let the water
> drain
> > into the LR rubble and out of the jug into that main first section.
> >
> > I'd fill the base of that first section with 1" or 2" of Live Sand
> (seeding sand
> > with some from your display is fine), and add macro algae such as
> Cheatomorpha.
> > Hang a light right over that first section, for about $15.
> >
> > The next or final section would be your return pump.
> >
> > And here's the article for fighting GHA:
> > http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html
> >
> > Anything further would get rather complicated, but this should work for
> now. No
> > more wet/drys for reef tanks, okay? :)
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > Mermaid wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > > I am in the process of converting my wet/dry trickle sump into a
> refugium.
> > > Does someone make a commercial conversion kit? This sump is only 3
> months
> > > old and my husband would kill me if I trashed it. So I need to use it
> > > somehow. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this conversion?
> > >
> > > Marc, can you help me. You have been wonderful in the past in helping
> me.
> > >
> > > The reason for this is I am battling HA and someone said if I convert to
> a
> > > refuge and put macro algae in it, it would compete with the HA and it
> would
> > > eventually die out. Is this correct? Of course there are other reasons
> for
> > > getting rid of your bio-balls and growing copods also.
> > >
> > > Below is the website that shows my sump. I have the P1000 with only one
> tube
> > > in the drip plate.
> > > There is a clear version of the top for the drip plate which would let
> light
> > > through. Would that work?
> > >
> > > http://www.aqualifesupport.com/filters.php
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paulette
> >
> > --
> > Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Mermaid]

You lost me when you said if the bio-balls were submerged that they would
not produce nitrates. If I filled my sump with more water that would cover
the bio-balls but I would be in danger of overflowing if my electricity went
off or the pump failed.

The reason I was thinking of the middle compartment or reversing it was I
heard that if you put your skimmer after the refug, you lose your copepods.
And also I was thinking what happens to them going through the return pump.
Can they handle the trip? Or can I just dip into the refug every once in a
while to feed my tank. I know it would be work but if that is the best I can
do I will live with it. This is very new to me but I want to learn. Sorry
for all of the questions. And I appreciate your time and kindness.

I am going to try to draw a picture of what I might be able to do and you
can tell me if it will work.

Thanks,
Paulette


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Paulette,
>
> Worry not, we will help you....
>
> Mermaid wrote:
>
> > Thanks Marc for the help and suggestions.
> >
> > The sponge block is removable and so is the middle section. It can be a
> > larger section if need be.
>
> Since you alone have the actual parts, you'll have to fill us in on the
details
> if the suggestions need altering.
>
> > But now I am really confused. My LFS man had a fit when he found out I
want
> > to convert my trickle to a refug and get rid of the bioballs. Said I
would
> > be overrun with nitrates. I thought that is where the nitrates came from
in
> > the first place. But my LR would be my filtering system, I thought.
>
> Wrong! Losing the bioballs will reduce your nitrates.
> http://www.melevsreef.com/reducing_nitrates.html
>
> Your LR will definitely help in denitrification, but it can only handle so
> much. Once you have nice manageable levels, the DSB and LR will keep it
down.
>
> > He said I could put some micro-algae in the middle compartment where the
> > sponge is. I don't know who to believe.
>
> If you want the refugium in the center, that is fine too. You just want
to
> avoid micro bubbles in the display tank, and so you may have to add
baffles in
> the sump to block those from traveling up to the tank.
>
> > I just want a happy tank with corals like you guys have. Is that so
hard?
>
> No, it is indeed possible.
>
> > Sorry for the vent but I am very frustrated!
>
> I don't blame you a bit. It is very hard to get a straight answer because
there
> are so many variations on what we call success.
>
> > Could I turn my trickle around? Wouldn't the rubble in the jug end up
just
> > like the bio-balls?
>
> Yes, you can run it in reverse if that is better, but it really won't make
any
> difference. Water goes in one end out pump out the other. Reverse it and
you
> still have the same layout.
>
> The LR in the jug will always be wet. The only reason I even suggest the
jug is
> to stop the billions of bubbles from traveling through your sump. It
helps keep
> them contained so the majority pops while the clear water travels out the
base.
> You can see a similar setup in my first sump:
> http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sump.jpg
> The water goes into the square area in the corner. Bioballs that are open
to
> oxygen create nitrates, but those that are completely submerged don't. So
start
> building your new sump and refugium so you can win your battle and have a
> healthy reef tank.
>
> Here's the light I'm using in a simple clamp-on reflector from Home Depot:
> http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/6500Kspiralbulb.jpg
> I saw a 200w light at Costco that was $19.99 that would work exceedingly
well
> and only used 65w of power.
>
> Marc
>
> >
> > Arrrggg!
> > Thanks,
> > Paulette
> >
> > "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi Paulette,
> > >
> > > That will be a tough one to convert, but it isn't impossible. I just
> > don't like
> > > that foam block in there but I dont' know that you can remove it and
still
> > use
> > > the sump in the correct way.
> > >
> > > If you removed the bioballs and drip plates, you could put a jug or
> > 2-liter
> > > bottle in the corner with the top section cut off. Cut a bunch of
holes
> > near
> > > the bottom of the container, and fill it up with LR rubble. Let the
water
> > drain
> > > into the LR rubble and out of the jug into that main first section.
> > >
> > > I'd fill the base of that first section with 1" or 2" of Live Sand
> > (seeding sand
> > > with some from your display is fine), and add macro algae such as
> > Cheatomorpha.
> > > Hang a light right over that first section, for about $15.
> > >
> > > The next or final section would be your return pump.
> > >
> > > And here's the article for fighting GHA:
> > > http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html
> > >
> > > Anything further would get rather complicated, but this should work
for
> > now. No
> > > more wet/drys for reef tanks, okay? :)
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > > Mermaid wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > > I am in the process of converting my wet/dry trickle sump into a
> > refugium.
> > > > Does someone make a commercial conversion kit? This sump is only 3
> > months
> > > > old and my husband would kill me if I trashed it. So I need to use
it
> > > > somehow. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this
conversion?
> > > >
> > > > Marc, can you help me. You have been wonderful in the past in
helping
> > me.
> > > >
> > > > The reason for this is I am battling HA and someone said if I
convert to
> > a
> > > > refuge and put macro algae in it, it would compete with the HA and
it
> > would
> > > > eventually die out. Is this correct? Of course there are other
reasons
> > for
> > > > getting rid of your bio-balls and growing copods also.
> > > >
> > > > Below is the website that shows my sump. I have the P1000 with only
one
> > tube
> > > > in the drip plate.
> > > > There is a clear version of the top for the drip plate which would
let
> > light
> > > > through. Would that work?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.aqualifesupport.com/filters.php
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Paulette
> > >
> > > --
> > > Personal Page:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Hi again

Mermaid wrote:

> You lost me when you said if the bio-balls were submerged that they would
> not produce nitrates. If I filled my sump with more water that would cover
> the bio-balls but I would be in danger of overflowing if my electricity went
> off or the pump failed.

That is the problem. Wet/dry units are designed to hold only a little water.
You'll have to be very careful when you set this up that you determine the
maximum water level it can hold and not overflow in the event of a power/pump
failure.

Submerged bio-balls really don't do much of anything, but they won't produce
nitrates like they will when they are in the air. The bottom line is: you don't
need them in a reef tank setup.

> The reason I was thinking of the middle compartment or reversing it was I
> heard that if you put your skimmer after the refug, you lose your copepods.

This is true, but it won't capture all of your pods. A lot of water rushes
right past the skimmer. I like to have the skimmer in the first section where
all the bubbles are anyway (from the entering water).

> And also I was thinking what happens to them going through the return pump.
> Can they handle the trip?

Yes, they'll make it fine.

> Or can I just dip into the refug every once in a while to feed my tank.

No, that won't do much, but I like the idea. :)

> I know it would be work but if that is the best I can
> do I will live with it. This is very new to me but I want to learn. Sorry
> for all of the questions. And I appreciate your time and kindness.

No problem.

> I am going to try to draw a picture of what I might be able to do and you
> can tell me if it will work.

Sure, just email it to me as my ISP won't display attachments here. Or post it
in alt.binaries.aquaria if you prefer.

If you've not looked these over yet, it may help:
http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html
http://www.melevsreef.com/make_a_sump.html

Marc


>
>
> Thanks,
> Paulette
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hey Paulette,
> >
> > Worry not, we will help you....
> >
> > Mermaid wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Marc for the help and suggestions.
> > >
> > > The sponge block is removable and so is the middle section. It can be a
> > > larger section if need be.
> >
> > Since you alone have the actual parts, you'll have to fill us in on the
> details
> > if the suggestions need altering.
> >
> > > But now I am really confused. My LFS man had a fit when he found out I
> want
> > > to convert my trickle to a refug and get rid of the bioballs. Said I
> would
> > > be overrun with nitrates. I thought that is where the nitrates came from
> in
> > > the first place. But my LR would be my filtering system, I thought.
> >
> > Wrong! Losing the bioballs will reduce your nitrates.
> > http://www.melevsreef.com/reducing_nitrates.html
> >
> > Your LR will definitely help in denitrification, but it can only handle so
> > much. Once you have nice manageable levels, the DSB and LR will keep it
> down.
> >
> > > He said I could put some micro-algae in the middle compartment where the
> > > sponge is. I don't know who to believe.
> >
> > If you want the refugium in the center, that is fine too. You just want
> to
> > avoid micro bubbles in the display tank, and so you may have to add
> baffles in
> > the sump to block those from traveling up to the tank.
> >
> > > I just want a happy tank with corals like you guys have. Is that so
> hard?
> >
> > No, it is indeed possible.
> >
> > > Sorry for the vent but I am very frustrated!
> >
> > I don't blame you a bit. It is very hard to get a straight answer because
> there
> > are so many variations on what we call success.
> >
> > > Could I turn my trickle around? Wouldn't the rubble in the jug end up
> just
> > > like the bio-balls?
> >
> > Yes, you can run it in reverse if that is better, but it really won't make
> any
> > difference. Water goes in one end out pump out the other. Reverse it and
> you
> > still have the same layout.
> >
> > The LR in the jug will always be wet. The only reason I even suggest the
> jug is
> > to stop the billions of bubbles from traveling through your sump. It
> helps keep
> > them contained so the majority pops while the clear water travels out the
> base.
> > You can see a similar setup in my first sump:
> > http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/sump.jpg
> > The water goes into the square area in the corner. Bioballs that are open
> to
> > oxygen create nitrates, but those that are completely submerged don't. So
> start
> > building your new sump and refugium so you can win your battle and have a
> > healthy reef tank.
> >
> > Here's the light I'm using in a simple clamp-on reflector from Home Depot:
> > http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/6500Kspiralbulb.jpg
> > I saw a 200w light at Costco that was $19.99 that would work exceedingly
> well
> > and only used 65w of power.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > >
> > > Arrrggg!
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paulette
> > >
> > > "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Hi Paulette,
> > > >
> > > > That will be a tough one to convert, but it isn't impossible. I just
> > > don't like
> > > > that foam block in there but I dont' know that you can remove it and
> still
> > > use
> > > > the sump in the correct way.
> > > >
> > > > If you removed the bioballs and drip plates, you could put a jug or
> > > 2-liter
> > > > bottle in the corner with the top section cut off. Cut a bunch of
> holes
> > > near
> > > > the bottom of the container, and fill it up with LR rubble. Let the
> water
> > > drain
> > > > into the LR rubble and out of the jug into that main first section.
> > > >
> > > > I'd fill the base of that first section with 1" or 2" of Live Sand
> > > (seeding sand
> > > > with some from your display is fine), and add macro algae such as
> > > Cheatomorpha.
> > > > Hang a light right over that first section, for about $15.
> > > >
> > > > The next or final section would be your return pump.
> > > >
> > > > And here's the article for fighting GHA:
> > > > http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html
> > > >
> > > > Anything further would get rather complicated, but this should work
> for
> > > now. No
> > > > more wet/drys for reef tanks, okay? :)
> > > >
> > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mermaid wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > I am in the process of converting my wet/dry trickle sump into a
> > > refugium.
> > > > > Does someone make a commercial conversion kit? This sump is only 3
> > > months
> > > > > old and my husband would kill me if I trashed it. So I need to use
> it
> > > > > somehow. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this
> conversion?
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc, can you help me. You have been wonderful in the past in
> helping
> > > me.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason for this is I am battling HA and someone said if I
> convert to
> > > a
> > > > > refuge and put macro algae in it, it would compete with the HA and
> it
> > > would
> > > > > eventually die out. Is this correct? Of course there are other
> reasons
> > > for
> > > > > getting rid of your bio-balls and growing copods also.
> > > > >
> > > > > Below is the website that shows my sump. I have the P1000 with only
> one
> > > tube
> > > > > in the drip plate.
> > > > > There is a clear version of the top for the drip plate which would
> let
> > > light
> > > > > through. Would that work?
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.aqualifesupport.com/filters.php
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Paulette
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Personal Page:
> http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > > > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > > > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com