Ecosystem Nano Reef

[Joel]

There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...

I used to keep fish and I am interested in starting a 15-30 gallon or
so reef with the Ecosystem method. I hear so many conflicting opinions
about it that I am completely confused. I have a friend with a similar
skimmerless refugium setup and he has NEVER done a water change and
NOTHING has died. I have heard others say that a skimmer is essential,
and that Ecosystem and other refugia do not work well enough. My goals
are to set up a small reef with hardy species and have it as
low-maintenance as possible (less than 15 min/day if possible). I have
read that skimmers can remove organics that actually support the
microfauna populations that lead to a more "natural" food chain. I
have read other articles that a protein skimmer is essential if for
nothing else than helping "clean up" in the event of a death or other
small disaster. There are millions of opinions on what is the best
method for reef keeping, and I wanted to know what would be
recommended for a beginner (I majored in bio and I understand the bio
and chemical stuff but I never had a reef) who does not have thousands
of dollars to spend on a full sized reef.

-Joel

[Chris]

I for one believe a skimmer on such a small tank would be very much
needed. One of the problems with such a small system is that the
bio-parameters in this small of a system are subject to change very
quickly. Excess proteins can and will accumulate very quickly in such a
small tank. So yes I would recommend a good skimmer and go with the
biggest tank you can afford.
The Fossa and Nilsen books are a good source to further your education
about reef tanks. I can not over stress read all you can, and
frequently ask questions when you don't understand.
A good setup that works and I can say I have run for years with success
was a thirty gallon tank running a CPR Bak-Pak, and just two small power
heads for water movement. The corals and the few very small fish I kept
in the system did very well and flurished.......Good Luck!
Chris Carney
www.exotic-aquatics.com

Joel wrote:
> There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...
>
> I used to keep fish and I am interested in starting a 15-30 gallon or
> so reef with the Ecosystem method. I hear so many conflicting opinions
> about it that I am completely confused. I have a friend with a similar
> skimmerless refugium setup and he has NEVER done a water change and
> NOTHING has died. I have heard others say that a skimmer is essential,
> and that Ecosystem and other refugia do not work well enough. My goals
> are to set up a small reef with hardy species and have it as
> low-maintenance as possible (less than 15 min/day if possible). I have
> read that skimmers can remove organics that actually support the
> microfauna populations that lead to a more "natural" food chain. I
> have read other articles that a protein skimmer is essential if for
> nothing else than helping "clean up" in the event of a death or other
> small disaster. There are millions of opinions on what is the best
> method for reef keeping, and I wanted to know what would be
> recommended for a beginner (I majored in bio and I understand the bio
> and chemical stuff but I never had a reef) who does not have thousands
> of dollars to spend on a full sized reef.
>
> -Joel

[Richard Reynolds]

> There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...

> I used to keep fish and I am interested in starting a 15-30 gallon or
> so reef with the Ecosystem method.
<snip>

interestingly enough in a small tank a skimmer is less important.

though I would stear away from ecosystem its just IMO

there is a forum on reefcentral.com about nano's
and http://www.nano-reef.com/ will be of use

for a while I ran a 7g with only a prizim skimmer for filtration/watermovement .... it did
good, but probibly could have done just as good with a small powerhead.

there are a lot of ways of doing things, in many cases its not about being right or wrong,
but about what works best for the individual.

I like running skimmers on all my tanks, I wont stop using them, but there are some
reasons to not run one.

--
Richard Reynolds

[Marc Levenson]

I know this may be redundant for you, but just briefly read over this anyway:
http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

I'd go with a skimmer any day. And I know I spend less than 15 minutes a day
working on my tanks (two 29g, one 55g).

Once a week though, you do need to put in an hour of your time for water tests,
cleaning, etc....

Marc


Joel wrote:

> There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...
>
> I used to keep fish and I am interested in starting a 15-30 gallon or
> so reef with the Ecosystem method. I hear so many conflicting opinions
> about it that I am completely confused. I have a friend with a similar
> skimmerless refugium setup and he has NEVER done a water change and
> NOTHING has died. I have heard others say that a skimmer is essential,
> and that Ecosystem and other refugia do not work well enough. My goals
> are to set up a small reef with hardy species and have it as
> low-maintenance as possible (less than 15 min/day if possible). I have
> read that skimmers can remove organics that actually support the
> microfauna populations that lead to a more "natural" food chain. I
> have read other articles that a protein skimmer is essential if for
> nothing else than helping "clean up" in the event of a death or other
> small disaster. There are millions of opinions on what is the best
> method for reef keeping, and I wanted to know what would be
> recommended for a beginner (I majored in bio and I understand the bio
> and chemical stuff but I never had a reef) who does not have thousands
> of dollars to spend on a full sized reef.
>
> -Joel

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Chris]

I for one believe a skimmer on such a small tank would be very much
needed. One of the problems with such a small system is that the
bio-parameters in this small of a system are subject to change very
quickly. Excess proteins can and will accumulate very quickly in such a
small tank. So yes I would recommend a good skimmer and go with the
biggest tank you can afford.
The Fossa and Nilsen books are a good source to further your
education about reef tanks. I can not over stress read all you can, and
frequently ask questions when you don't understand.
A good setup that works and I can say I have run for years with
success was a thirty gallon tank running a CPR Bak-Pak, and just two
small power heads for water movement. The corals and the few very small
fish I kept in the system did very well and flurished.......Good Luck!
Chris Carney
www.exotic-aquatics.com


Joel wrote:
> There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...
>
> I used to keep fish and I am interested in starting a 15-30 gallon or
> so reef with the Ecosystem method. I hear so many conflicting opinions
> about it that I am completely confused. I have a friend with a similar
> skimmerless refugium setup and he has NEVER done a water change and
> NOTHING has died. I have heard others say that a skimmer is essential,
> and that Ecosystem and other refugia do not work well enough. My goals
> are to set up a small reef with hardy species and have it as
> low-maintenance as possible (less than 15 min/day if possible). I have
> read that skimmers can remove organics that actually support the
> microfauna populations that lead to a more "natural" food chain. I
> have read other articles that a protein skimmer is essential if for
> nothing else than helping "clean up" in the event of a death or other
> small disaster. There are millions of opinions on what is the best
> method for reef keeping, and I wanted to know what would be
> recommended for a beginner (I majored in bio and I understand the bio
> and chemical stuff but I never had a reef) who does not have thousands
> of dollars to spend on a full sized reef.
>
> -Joel

[Kelly]

I am running a 30 gallon and instead of using a skimmer I got one of those
attachments for my hang on back filter which sucks water from the surface
instead of submersed. This along with another hang on back filter keeps the
tank very clear and clean. I went this way because I converted fresh water
tanks to salt and couldn't afford a big fancy skimmer and didn't want to buy
a cheap one that will be replaced at some point anyways. I will however buy
one eventually so I can carry a larger fish load. Right now with the LR,
corals, clean-up crew and three fish my set up works great.

[Marc Levenson]

A Protein Skimmer isn't a thing designed to skim the surface of the water. It
removes proteins and DOCs from the water column.

Marc


Kelly wrote:

> I am running a 30 gallon and instead of using a skimmer I got one of those
> attachments for my hang on back filter which sucks water from the surface
> instead of submersed. This along with another hang on back filter keeps the
> tank very clear and clean. I went this way because I converted fresh water
> tanks to salt and couldn't afford a big fancy skimmer and didn't want to buy
> a cheap one that will be replaced at some point anyways. I will however buy
> one eventually so I can carry a larger fish load. Right now with the LR,
> corals, clean-up crew and three fish my set up works great.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Kelly]

I know I was just saying that this set up helped me keep the water and the
surface of the water clean, in my set up.
"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> A Protein Skimmer isn't a thing designed to skim the surface of the water.
It
> removes proteins and DOCs from the water column.
>
> Marc
>
>
> Kelly wrote:
>
> > I am running a 30 gallon and instead of using a skimmer I got one of
those
> > attachments for my hang on back filter which sucks water from the
surface
> > instead of submersed. This along with another hang on back filter keeps
the
> > tank very clear and clean. I went this way because I converted fresh
water
> > tanks to salt and couldn't afford a big fancy skimmer and didn't want to
buy
> > a cheap one that will be replaced at some point anyways. I will however
buy
> > one eventually so I can carry a larger fish load. Right now with the LR,
> > corals, clean-up crew and three fish my set up works great.
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

I see, and I wasn't trying to correct you. However the word "skimmer" might
lead others reading to think it was a surface skimmer when it does much more.

Marc


Kelly wrote:

> I know I was just saying that this set up helped me keep the water and the
> surface of the water clean, in my set up.
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A Protein Skimmer isn't a thing designed to skim the surface of the water.
> It
> > removes proteins and DOCs from the water column.
> >
> > Marc
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Royce]

I agree with the others that a skimmer is the way to go, but you can also
run a system that utilizes both rufugium and skimmer. There are a lot of
variations to Ecosystem type filtration. I've used both on my system for a
few years, and I love the results. I have dependable filtration with the
skimmer, and also have the advantage of having a planted refugium. I think
Ecosystem has even started to market their product with the admission that
you can also use a skimmer. I'm not saying that their method won't work as
a stand-alone filter, but if you go that route you should pay close
attention to the things you do to affect the amount of waste in your system
(feeding, etc). Be wary of the "open-system" claims. No aquarium system is
"open", and be wary of some of the "snake-oil" claims. I also don't think
the maintenance is very different for either system, or for a combined
system. You can save a lot of money by building your own Ecosystem-type
refugium, and there are also alternative substrates available for a refugium
type filter. My refugium is a fascinating system in itself. I think it
really compliments a reef, especially if you want a more "natural" system.
I also believe it's a healthier system, but that's probably debatable. A
lot of people that insist that you need a skimmer also have some type of
refugium in line with their system. I think most will tell you that adding
a refugium is a bonus.
Royce


"Joel" > wrote in message
om...
> There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief...
>
> I used to keep fish and I am interested in starting a 15-30 gallon or
> so reef with the Ecosystem method. I hear so many conflicting opinions
> about it that I am completely confused. I have a friend with a similar
> skimmerless refugium setup and he has NEVER done a water change and
> NOTHING has died. I have heard others say that a skimmer is essential,
> and that Ecosystem and other refugia do not work well enough. My goals
> are to set up a small reef with hardy species and have it as
> low-maintenance as possible (less than 15 min/day if possible). I have
> read that skimmers can remove organics that actually support the
> microfauna populations that lead to a more "natural" food chain. I
> have read other articles that a protein skimmer is essential if for
> nothing else than helping "clean up" in the event of a death or other
> small disaster. There are millions of opinions on what is the best
> method for reef keeping, and I wanted to know what would be
> recommended for a beginner (I majored in bio and I understand the bio
> and chemical stuff but I never had a reef) who does not have thousands
> of dollars to spend on a full sized reef.
>
> -Joel

[CapFusion]

"Kelly" > wrote in message
news:kqRIb.890845$6C4.59896@pd7tw1no...
> I know I was just saying that this set up helped me keep the water and the
> surface of the water clean, in my set up.
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A Protein Skimmer isn't a thing designed to skim the surface of the
water.
> It
> > removes proteins and DOCs from the water column.
> >

Maybe this may give some general idea what filteration they need.
http://reefrock.com/site/article24.html

There all sort of method of removing nitrate and how which person use it.

Late reply....

CapFusion,...