FILYERING TAP WATER FOR FRESH WATER TANKS ?

[robert]

Do I need to filter tap water before putting in my fresh water tank ? If so
will reverse osmosis do it ? If so do I have to add something to the
filtered fresh filtered tap water ? Thanks.

Robert G Smith

[Iain Miller]

"robert" > wrote in message
...
> Do I need to filter tap water before putting in my fresh water tank ? If
so
> will reverse osmosis do it ? If so do I have to add something to the
> filtered fresh filtered tap water ? Thanks.
>
Depends what you keep in the tank & what your tap water is like.

Unless you have a well it will have either Chlorine or Chloramine in it &
you'll need to get rid of that - easiest way is to use dechlorinator from
your LFS.

RO water is water that's been through very very fine filters that take
EVERYTHING out & leave you with (near as dammit) pure H2O. You actually need
to add back minerals & salts to it in order for your fish to live in it. You
can buy stuff from the LFS specifically for this. RO is not a necessity but
is nice to have. RO units for home use are quite expensive and have to be
cared for - you can not let them dry out - you almost need to run them full
time. Depending on your tap water you will get approximately one gallon of
RO water from every five gallons you filter - the rest goes to waste.

Many LFS's will sell you RO water if you take your own container in.

HTH

I.

[Mort]

"Iain Miller" > wrote in message
...
>
<snip>

> RO water is water that's been through very very fine filters that take
> EVERYTHING out & leave you with (near as dammit) pure H2O. You actually
need
> to add back minerals & salts to it in order for your fish to live in it.

</snip>

I don't know for sure if that statement is correct as I havent been doing it
for very long, however, I have been using RO/DI water for my freshies and I
have not added anything to the water. So far so good.


> You
> can buy stuff from the LFS specifically for this. RO is not a necessity
but
> is nice to have. RO units for home use are quite expensive and have to be
> cared for - you can not let them dry out -

There is a guy here who sells them for $150.00. I bought one recently and I
am very happy. If you want, I'll give you his email address (if he doesnt
jump in first that is =)

<snip>

~Mort

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Robert

For a freshwater tank, if your using tap water, quality carbon
pre-filtration is sufficient. RO is overkill, wasteful and expensive
for such usage.

You don't really need RO until you venture into a sal****er marine
tank.

If you decide to progress further, into a Reef Aquarium, RO is not
even clean enough, you should go with deionized water or better for
your salt mix and top-ups.

My second stage of filtration for Freshwater Aquaria is a silver
impregnated pressed carbon cylinder filter. The first stage is just a
sediment filter to protect the pressed carbon filter from surface
clogging. And even it is overkill for freshwater, but I use the same
source to feed my deionization columns for the reef aquaria.

TTUL
Gary

[Mort]

> Suggest you do some research into that - my understanding is that pure
RO/DI
> water is almost completely depleted of minerals & salts which the fish
need.
> In the longer term you may have problems without something like RO-Right
>
> I.
>
>


Will do Iain. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks!

~Mort

[Racf]

"Iain Miller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mort" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > "Iain Miller" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > RO water is water that's been through very very fine filters that
take
> > > EVERYTHING out & leave you with (near as dammit) pure H2O. You
actually
> > need
> > > to add back minerals & salts to it in order for your fish to live
in it.
> >
> > </snip>
> >
> > I don't know for sure if that statement is correct as I havent been
doing
> it
> > for very long, however, I have been using RO/DI water for my
freshies and
> I
> > have not added anything to the water. So far so good.
>
> Suggest you do some research into that - my understanding is that pure
RO/DI
> water is almost completely depleted of minerals & salts which the fish
need.
> In the longer term you may have problems without something like
RO-Right
>
> I.
>
>

A suggestion of what to add to your RO and DI water:

3 parts Calcium Sulfate (gypsum)
1 part Calcium Chloride or Calcium Carbonate (will raise up the kH, too)
1 part Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt)

The total amounts in ratio should be adjusted with the use of a
conductivity meter to your desired hardness.

[robert]

"Racf" > wrote in message
et...
> "Iain Miller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >

This formula sats how many " parts " to add to the water of these minerals.
OK but to how much water ?

Robert G Smith


>
> A suggestion of what to add to your RO and DI water:
>
> 3 parts Calcium Sulfate (gypsum)
> 1 part Calcium Chloride or Calcium Carbonate (will raise up the kH, too)
> 1 part Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt)
>
> The total amounts in ratio should be adjusted with the use of a
> conductivity meter to your desired hardness.
>
>

[robert]

How do I produce deionized water ? Can I make it from tap water ? I have
been told that deionized water is VERY corrosive. True ? I am asking
because I am going to be running salt and fresh water tanks. Thanks.

Robert G Smith

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Hi Robert
>
> For a freshwater tank, if your using tap water, quality carbon
> pre-filtration is sufficient. RO is overkill, wasteful and expensive
> for such usage.
>
> You don't really need RO until you venture into a sal****er marine
> tank.
>
> If you decide to progress further, into a Reef Aquarium, RO is not
> even clean enough, you should go with deionized water or better for
> your salt mix and top-ups.
>
> My second stage of filtration for Freshwater Aquaria is a silver
> impregnated pressed carbon cylinder filter. The first stage is just a
> sediment filter to protect the pressed carbon filter from surface
> clogging. And even it is overkill for freshwater, but I use the same
> source to feed my deionization columns for the reef aquaria.
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>

[Racf]

"robert" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Racf" > wrote in message
> et...
> > "Iain Miller" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
>
> This formula sats how many " parts " to add to the water of these
minerals.
> OK but to how much water ?
>
> Robert G Smith
>
>
> >
> > A suggestion of what to add to your RO and DI water:
> >
> > 3 parts Calcium Sulfate (gypsum)
> > 1 part Calcium Chloride or Calcium Carbonate (will raise up the kH,
too)
> > 1 part Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt)
> >
> > The total amounts in ratio should be adjusted with the use of a
> > conductivity meter to your desired hardness.
> >
> >
>
>

3 grams Calcium Sulfate, 1 gram Calcium Chloride, and 1 gram Magnesium
Sulfate is about the right amount to add to 20 US gallons for basic
Amazonian water. You must use a conductivity meter and adjust these
values a bit to be optimum for your purpose. Grow-out versus breeding
versus maintaining......

[Dan Drake]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:56:20 UTC, "robert" > wrote:

> How do I produce deionized water ? Can I make it from tap water ? I have
> been told that deionized water is VERY corrosive. True ? I am asking
> because I am going to be running salt and fresh water tanks. Thanks.

As I hear it, very pure water is bad for distribution pipes; I suppose
it's because any dissolved CO2 makes it acidic enough to damage pipes over
a long time. Just think of leaching cadmium out of the zinc coating on
old galvanized pipes, and you'll be glad that water suppliers with very
soft water sources generally add lime or something to make sure the pH
stays up and the pipes don't deteriorate.

But you won't be letting your aquarium water get into contact with any
metal. And pure water doesn't bother glass or plastic (the right sort of
plastic) on any reasonable time scale.

--

http://www.dandrake.com/

In the days after September 11, Yahoo searches for Nostradamus
outnumbered those for Osama bin Laden and Sex, combined.

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Robert

Sorry for the delay in responding, I was out of town.

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals sells a low cost deionization cylinder.
Depending upon your location and water quality, it can produce
anywhere from 20 to 100 gallons of water per cylinder.

Kent Marine sells just the resins by themselves, if you want to build
a pair from spaghetti cannisters.

FWIW: DI resins last forever, they don't wear out, but they do lose
their charge rather quickly.
Recharging is simple and cheap.
AP says their cylinders cannot be recharged.
I've been using the resins from the AP cylinders now for well over 5
years and they still function perfectly. The output reads .05 to .06
Microsiemens. Cost about $1.00 each to recharge or $6.00 per year.

Water is the worlds most universal solvent.
So in essence, whether it comes from your tap or has been filtered
until perfectly clean, I guess it could be considered a corrosive.
But I wouldn't say 'clean' water is much more corrosive than 'dirty'
water, but I'm sure it is by a minute degree.

A good RO system can cost from $300 to $500 bucks, add DI to that and
they often kick the price up another $50.00 or so.

One really does not need RO at all, it only makes it longer between DI
recharge sessions. If you make fairly BIG DI cylinders, you don't
have to recharge them as often.

Carbon removes about 10% of the remaining contaminants from tap water.
RO removes about 90% of the remaining contaminants.
Cold Sterilization removes about 95%.
DI removes about 98%.
and Triple Distillation (in glass) removes slightly greater than 99%.
In any of the above processes, pre-filtration only extends the life of
the useful life of the system utilized.

TTUL
Gary


"robert" > verbositized:

>How do I produce deionized water ? Can I make it from tap water ? I have
>been told that deionized water is VERY corrosive. True ? I am asking
>because I am going to be running salt and fresh water tanks. Thanks.
>
>Robert G Smith
>
>"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
>> Hi Robert
>>
>> For a freshwater tank, if your using tap water, quality carbon
>> pre-filtration is sufficient. RO is overkill, wasteful and expensive
>> for such usage.
>>
>> You don't really need RO until you venture into a sal****er marine
>> tank.
>>
>> If you decide to progress further, into a Reef Aquarium, RO is not
>> even clean enough, you should go with deionized water or better for
>> your salt mix and top-ups.
>>
>> My second stage of filtration for Freshwater Aquaria is a silver
>> impregnated pressed carbon cylinder filter. The first stage is just a
>> sediment filter to protect the pressed carbon filter from surface
>> clogging. And even it is overkill for freshwater, but I use the same
>> source to feed my deionization columns for the reef aquaria.
>>
>> TTUL
>> Gary
>>
>
>

[Dan Drake]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:02:52 UTC, (Gary V.
Deutschmann, Sr.) wrote:

> Water is the worlds most universal solvent.
> So in essence, whether it comes from your tap or has been filtered
> until perfectly clean, I guess it could be considered a corrosive.
> But I wouldn't say 'clean' water is much more corrosive than 'dirty'
> water, but I'm sure it is by a minute degree.
>

The reason for the claim that it's very corrosive seems to be this:

The water from your tap probably has carbonate to the extent of a few
German units (KH), and has a pH up in the 7s or above. If the natural
source is softer than that, water companies generally add carbonate; in
many places that's unnecessary. They treat the water in this way because
really pure soft water, with no buffering power, will turn slightly acidic
as it picks up CO2 from the air. And it will gradually corrode pipes, and
the water company really doesn't like this. It may also leach enough
unpleasant metals from the pipes (lead, cadmium) to be a health hazard.

So, you purify your water, and you take that nice carbonate out. As CO2
dissolves in the pure water, you have something that is very slightly and
slowly corrosive, and you must not store it in your usual lead-and-cadmium
containers. Or anything else metallic. Glass, though, is really good
with mild acids over a reasonable time; so are plastics that are certified
for use with food and drink. If your container holds orange juice without
rotting, you don't have to worry a lot about pure water.

Am I understating the corrosivenss a little? Does anyone *know*? Anyway,
I'm not kidding about orange juice (citric acid in such concentration that
you can taste it) versus pure water (much lower concentartion of a weaker
acid).

--
Dan Drake

http://www.dandrake.com

Human rights in Cuba: 600 prisoners held 18 months and more,
without charge, without bail, without counsel, facing trial by
secret special tribunals with power to impose the death
penalty. And that's just one place. Guantanamo.

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Dan

You are correct in that regard!

In some areas of the country, namely those with hard water, a minor
plumbing leak is only a temporary nusance that will often heal itself,
keeping those things you don't want clogged clean, like aerators and
showerheads is another matter.
In the areas with soft water, or artificially softened water, leaks in
piping is commonplace and must be dealt with quickly, before it soon
becomes an unwanted flood.

But our true topic was in reference to aquaria and its water
properties.
You want to place as few contaminants as possible into an aquarium!
A freshwater aquarium will naturally go acidic and hard water is
beneficial in this regard. Thus my reason for saying, any filtration
beyond pressed carbon is overkill, as you are removing the things you
technically need in a freshwater aquarium.

However, in sal****er aquaria, namely reefs, you want to control the
additives as closely as possible and keep out as many of the
contaminants as possible. Yet there is even overkill here too, you
don't need triple distilled water from an all glass Barnstead still to
properly maintain a reef aquarium. A good quality salt mix adds those
nutrients that should be introduced into the aquarium at the time of a
water change. Thus the purer your make-up water, the closer to
correct the resultant make-up solution will be.

TTUL
Gary