Strange gases....?

[Phil O'Connor]

Hi,

I saw something odd in my tank last night. I've had a horrible problem
with cyano (red slime) from day one (2 year old 46g FOWLR), and the last
3 months plagued with orange slime (dinoflagellates?) as well. But last
night I saw fairly sizable bubbles (size of beebees) on the side of the
tank and on the filter intake tube.

But get this: The slime patches are growing ON TOP OF the
bubbles....?!?!? In other words, the bubbles were between the slime and
the glass. Looked like the slime was actually growing on the surface of
the bubbles. Whats this about? What sort of gas is being produced
under slime patches, and why has I not seen this before? I admit, the
slime is quite extensive at the moment, as I dont have the ambition
anymore to constantly combat it. So it gets pretty bad, and its at its
worst right now. I'm guessing thats related.


TIA
Phil

[Dragon Slayer]

the slime with bubbles is dinoflagellates.

when it clears up on its own (if you don't blast it away or siphon it off)
you'll have amazing coralline growth under it. I don't know why that
happens but it does. IME elevated O2 levels promote coralline growth so the
trapped gas may be O2 from photosynthesis of the flagellates.

kc

"Phil O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I saw something odd in my tank last night. I've had a horrible problem
> with cyano (red slime) from day one (2 year old 46g FOWLR), and the last
> 3 months plagued with orange slime (dinoflagellates?) as well. But last
> night I saw fairly sizable bubbles (size of beebees) on the side of the
> tank and on the filter intake tube.
>
> But get this: The slime patches are growing ON TOP OF the
> bubbles....?!?!? In other words, the bubbles were between the slime and
> the glass. Looked like the slime was actually growing on the surface of
> the bubbles. Whats this about? What sort of gas is being produced
> under slime patches, and why has I not seen this before? I admit, the
> slime is quite extensive at the moment, as I dont have the ambition
> anymore to constantly combat it. So it gets pretty bad, and its at its
> worst right now. I'm guessing thats related.
>
>
> TIA
> Phil
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

KC has some good points. I was thinking the bubbles might be nitrogen gas,
which come out of LR and a DSB. Slime Algae (Cyano bacteria) grows right over
those bubbles, trapping them.

I used ChemiClean to get rid of Cyano. You have to keep the skimmer off for 48
hours though. It worked very nicely for me in my 55g reef.

Marc


Phil O'Connor wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I saw something odd in my tank last night. I've had a horrible problem
> with cyano (red slime) from day one (2 year old 46g FOWLR), and the last
> 3 months plagued with orange slime (dinoflagellates?) as well. But last
> night I saw fairly sizable bubbles (size of beebees) on the side of the
> tank and on the filter intake tube.
>
> But get this: The slime patches are growing ON TOP OF the
> bubbles....?!?!? In other words, the bubbles were between the slime and
> the glass. Looked like the slime was actually growing on the surface of
> the bubbles. Whats this about? What sort of gas is being produced
> under slime patches, and why has I not seen this before? I admit, the
> slime is quite extensive at the moment, as I dont have the ambition
> anymore to constantly combat it. So it gets pretty bad, and its at its
> worst right now. I'm guessing thats related.
>
> TIA
> Phil

--
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[CapFusion]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> KC has some good points. I was thinking the bubbles might be nitrogen
gas,
> which come out of LR and a DSB. Slime Algae (Cyano bacteria) grows right
over
> those bubbles, trapping them.
>
> I used ChemiClean to get rid of Cyano. You have to keep the skimmer off
for 48
> hours though. It worked very nicely for me in my 55g reef.
>
> Marc

I would say Nitrogen gas being release. Nitrogen will get built-up in DSB.
The only time the LR get bubble normally when the bubble get trap. Normal
good current will fix the "slime algae" and PS will take care of the rest.
Sound like that tank need good water circulation and current.

CapFusion,...

[Phil O'Connor]

CapFusion wrote:

> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > KC has some good points. I was thinking the bubbles might be nitrogen
> gas,
> > which come out of LR and a DSB. Slime Algae (Cyano bacteria) grows right
> over
> > those bubbles, trapping them.
> >
> > I used ChemiClean to get rid of Cyano. You have to keep the skimmer off
> for 48
> > hours though. It worked very nicely for me in my 55g reef.
> >
> > Marc
>
> I would say Nitrogen gas being release. Nitrogen will get built-up in DSB.
> The only time the LR get bubble normally when the bubble get trap. Normal
> good current will fix the "slime algae" and PS will take care of the rest.
> Sound like that tank need good water circulation and current.
>
> CapFusion,...

Actually, I dont have DSB, I have crushed coral. I WISH it was nitrogen, that
would mean I have denitrification going on, which I dont, cuz I cant seem to
reduce nitrates anyway but dillution.

As for circulation, that theory has been offered me before (and rightly so),
but I have 3 power heads on a 46g bowfront. 2 of them are near the substrate,
you can actually see the gravel moving from the current, and the slime still
grows right on it. The poor fish cant swim from one side to the other without
getting knocked around from all the current I got going on in there. And I
have an Aqua C Remora that runs 24/7. I just dont get what the problem is.
frustrating!!!!

[CapFusion]

>
> Actually, I dont have DSB, I have crushed coral. I WISH it was nitrogen,
that
> would mean I have denitrification going on, which I dont, cuz I cant seem
to
> reduce nitrates anyway but dillution.
>
> As for circulation, that theory has been offered me before (and rightly
so),
> but I have 3 power heads on a 46g bowfront. 2 of them are near the
substrate,
> you can actually see the gravel moving from the current, and the slime
still
> grows right on it. The poor fish cant swim from one side to the other
without
> getting knocked around from all the current I got going on in there. And
I
> have an Aqua C Remora that runs 24/7. I just dont get what the problem is.
> frustrating!!!!
>

Something is there that is causing somekind of bubble or creating it. And I
do still believe it nitrogen release somehow. Can you try to stir your
substrate a little bit and see if any bubble release? DO NOT stir too much
to release alot if there is any gas underneath it. Somehow your algae is
feeding on it since it been awhile. Normally it will disappear by itself.
**did you say it been two year**?

If it is not gas, then how you get bubble? How does your water return
[mechanically]? Does it return like a water-fall or from a waterpump? Do you
notice the return water where the output push any bubble out at the same
time with the water?

Something is so obvious that is under our nose that we missing it or see it.

CapFusion,...

[Phil]

"CapFusion" > wrote in
:
>
> Something is there that is causing somekind of bubble or creating it.
> And I do still believe it nitrogen release somehow. Can you try to
> stir your substrate a little bit and see if any bubble release? DO NOT
> stir too much to release alot if there is any gas underneath it.
> Somehow your algae is feeding on it since it been awhile. Normally it
> will disappear by itself. **did you say it been two year**?
>
> If it is not gas, then how you get bubble? How does your water return
> [mechanically]? Does it return like a water-fall or from a waterpump?
> Do you notice the return water where the output push any bubble out at
> the same time with the water?
>
> Something is so obvious that is under our nose that we missing it or
> see it.
>
> CapFusion,...
>


Gas, yes; nitrogen, I dont know. My gut tells me that Dragon Slayer is
right with the O2 theory. But of course, I dont know. I would just be
surprised if I had denitrification occuring, especially since its on the
glass, under the slime.

My red slime problem has been for 2 years now (of varying degrees). I
used to have horrible green hair, thank god that finally subsided, but
red slime marches on. The orange slime (apparently dino) has only been
about 3 or 4 months. And its the orange that has the bubbles, and only
when its really bad, like 4 weeks of growth.

I've changed the lighting. Cleaned everything. Actually, my biggest sin
is I really dont stay on top of cleaning my skimmer cup. I know thats
shameful, and I should explore that. But I cant imagine thats the whole
culprit. Maybe I should have my water tested. I use RO water from my
own 3stage Spectrapure unit. Prefilters are 8 months old, membrane is 1yr
and 8 months old.

Other variables I've considered is I went from frozen foods to Formula
One pellets around the same time the dino appeared. And the season shift
of the sun casts direct sunlight on my tank now for about 20 minutes a
day (just small rays that sneak in between the blinds) but that also
started around the same time.

But ofcourse, none of that would explain the 2 yr red slime problem since
these are just recent variables. Good thing I love my Naso Tang so much,
otherwise I'd chuck this thing out the window like Chief did in Cuckoo's
Nest.

[CapFusion]

"Phil" > wrote in message
...

> Gas, yes; nitrogen, I dont know. My gut tells me that Dragon Slayer is
> right with the O2 theory. But of course, I dont know. I would just be
> surprised if I had denitrification occuring, especially since its on the
> glass, under the slime.
>

Oxygen release from the algae, maybe or yes.
Denitrification on the glass.... humm.. I do not think so.

I see some gas release in my tank when the sand get dig-up or get disturb by
something.
Remember, I do not use PS so all my denitrification is in my DSB. Any decay
will fall fall down or travel down to the DSB to be decompose where it will
become gas. This gas and other nutrient will feed algae. I welcome algae but
when I turn on my PS for about a week or so, those algae slowly decrease it
population.



> My red slime problem has been for 2 years now (of varying degrees). I
> used to have horrible green hair, thank god that finally subsided, but
> red slime marches on. The orange slime (apparently dino) has only been
> about 3 or 4 months. And its the orange that has the bubbles, and only
> when its really bad, like 4 weeks of growth.
>

I do not understand this part. If you have a good current and good PS, there
no way any slime will be there. I bet "Slimer" from "Ghost Buster" the movie
can not get a grip when there a good current [metaphor of speaking of
course]. Since you discribe how your fish can not even swim straight from
the path of your current.


> I've changed the lighting. Cleaned everything. Actually, my biggest sin
> is I really dont stay on top of cleaning my skimmer cup. I know thats
> shameful, and I should explore that. But I cant imagine thats the whole
> culprit. Maybe I should have my water tested. I use RO water from my
> own 3stage Spectrapure unit. Prefilters are 8 months old, membrane is 1yr
> and 8 months old.

Humm..... maybe just to double check just to see what output does your RO
producing.


> Other variables I've considered is I went from frozen foods to Formula
> One pellets around the same time the dino appeared. And the season shift
> of the sun casts direct sunlight on my tank now for about 20 minutes a
> day (just small rays that sneak in between the blinds) but that also
> started around the same time.
>

No comment. Or maybe just cover or block the ray and see if your tank
improve.


> But ofcourse, none of that would explain the 2 yr red slime problem since
> these are just recent variables. Good thing I love my Naso Tang so much,
> otherwise I'd chuck this thing out the window like Chief did in Cuckoo's
> Nest.
>

Algae need the following:
Nutrient - either available > Anmonia / Nitrite / Nitrate
Bad Lighting - bad specturm
Food - Overfeed or leftover or leech out

For red slime algae.
Normally redslime or any slimmy type algae will thrive on where less current
with nutrient deposit to that area.

Maybe you can provide us a water parameter?

CapFusion,...

[Dragon Slayer]

Cap the dinoflagellates will produce the bubbles even when they are on the
glass, its either CO2 or O2 I don't think there would be any nitrifying
bacteria on the surface of the glass.

hth
kc

"CapFusion" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phil" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Gas, yes; nitrogen, I dont know. My gut tells me that Dragon Slayer is
> > right with the O2 theory. But of course, I dont know. I would just be
> > surprised if I had denitrification occuring, especially since its on the
> > glass, under the slime.
> >
>
> Oxygen release from the algae, maybe or yes.
> Denitrification on the glass.... humm.. I do not think so.
>
> I see some gas release in my tank when the sand get dig-up or get disturb
by
> something.
> Remember, I do not use PS so all my denitrification is in my DSB. Any
decay
> will fall fall down or travel down to the DSB to be decompose where it
will
> become gas. This gas and other nutrient will feed algae. I welcome algae
but
> when I turn on my PS for about a week or so, those algae slowly decrease
it
> population.
>
>
>
> > My red slime problem has been for 2 years now (of varying degrees). I
> > used to have horrible green hair, thank god that finally subsided, but
> > red slime marches on. The orange slime (apparently dino) has only been
> > about 3 or 4 months. And its the orange that has the bubbles, and only
> > when its really bad, like 4 weeks of growth.
> >
>
> I do not understand this part. If you have a good current and good PS,
there
> no way any slime will be there. I bet "Slimer" from "Ghost Buster" the
movie
> can not get a grip when there a good current [metaphor of speaking of
> course]. Since you discribe how your fish can not even swim straight from
> the path of your current.
>
>
> > I've changed the lighting. Cleaned everything. Actually, my biggest sin
> > is I really dont stay on top of cleaning my skimmer cup. I know thats
> > shameful, and I should explore that. But I cant imagine thats the whole
> > culprit. Maybe I should have my water tested. I use RO water from my
> > own 3stage Spectrapure unit. Prefilters are 8 months old, membrane is
1yr
> > and 8 months old.
>
> Humm..... maybe just to double check just to see what output does your RO
> producing.
>
>
> > Other variables I've considered is I went from frozen foods to Formula
> > One pellets around the same time the dino appeared. And the season
shift
> > of the sun casts direct sunlight on my tank now for about 20 minutes a
> > day (just small rays that sneak in between the blinds) but that also
> > started around the same time.
> >
>
> No comment. Or maybe just cover or block the ray and see if your tank
> improve.
>
>
> > But ofcourse, none of that would explain the 2 yr red slime problem
since
> > these are just recent variables. Good thing I love my Naso Tang so
much,
> > otherwise I'd chuck this thing out the window like Chief did in Cuckoo's
> > Nest.
> >
>
> Algae need the following:
> Nutrient - either available > Anmonia / Nitrite / Nitrate
> Bad Lighting - bad specturm
> Food - Overfeed or leftover or leech out
>
> For red slime algae.
> Normally redslime or any slimmy type algae will thrive on where less
current
> with nutrient deposit to that area.
>
> Maybe you can provide us a water parameter?
>
> CapFusion,...
>
>
>

[CapFusion]

"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
> Cap the dinoflagellates will produce the bubbles even when they are on the
> glass, its either CO2 or O2 I don't think there would be any nitrifying
> bacteria on the surface of the glass.
>
> hth
> kc

Bacterica will be on any surface.

CapFusion,...

[Dragon Slayer]

it was mint to be denitrifying bacteria, and no they wont be on any surface,
they only live in O2 voided places.

kc


"CapFusion" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Cap the dinoflagellates will produce the bubbles even when they are on
the
> > glass, its either CO2 or O2 I don't think there would be any nitrifying
> > bacteria on the surface of the glass.
> >
> > hth
> > kc
>
> Bacterica will be on any surface.
>
> CapFusion,...
>
>

[Boomer]

It is O2 produced by the algae, Dino's , Cyano, Diatoms.They all do that. 99 % of the
time it is O2

--
Boomer

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If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
...
: it was mint to be denitrifying bacteria, and no they wont be on any surface,
: they only live in O2 voided places.
:
: kc
:
:
: "CapFusion" > wrote in message
: ...
: >
: > "Dragon Slayer" > wrote in message
: > ...
: > > Cap the dinoflagellates will produce the bubbles even when they are on
: the
: > > glass, its either CO2 or O2 I don't think there would be any nitrifying
: > > bacteria on the surface of the glass.
: > >
: > > hth
: > > kc
: >
: > Bacterica will be on any surface.
: >
: > CapFusion,...
: >
: >
:
: