Flouresent Ballast Wiring

[Ken N]

Does anyone know the reason all floursent ballasts use solid wire? My two
atinics are mounted to stands that sit on the top of my tank so I can easily
move them but the constant moving causes the soid wire to fatigue and break.
Does anyone know if the same awg stranded wire can be used for the last 8"
of the run. I know I need to have the solid go into the push in connector on
the socket, but was going to use stranded from the solid wire going into the
socket to about 8" where I have the solid wire again attached to the hood.

TIA

Ken N.

[Steve Sells]

Speaking as an Electrician, Solid wire is cheaper to use, also Most wire
stays in place after being installed. Use the same gauge or LARGER ( i.e. if
you have 18 gauge feel free to use 16 or 14... it will carry more wire and
not get hot. HEAT from resistance is the reasoning behind the NECA rules on
Minimal wire gauge, larger wire has less resistance) to replace what you
change out you will be fine.

Steve
IBEW 305




"Ken N" > wrote in message
news:mKgXb.311862$na.465526@attbi_s04...
> Does anyone know the reason all floursent ballasts use solid wire? My two
> atinics are mounted to stands that sit on the top of my tank so I can
easily
> move them but the constant moving causes the soid wire to fatigue and
break.
> Does anyone know if the same awg stranded wire can be used for the last 8"
> of the run. I know I need to have the solid go into the push in connector
on
> the socket, but was going to use stranded from the solid wire going into
the
> socket to about 8" where I have the solid wire again attached to the hood.
>
> TIA
>
> Ken N.
>
>

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Ken

ALL of my lighting systems have used stranded wire and the
transformers (I use transformers instead of ballasts) have been remote
mounted to keep the heat away from the aquaria.

If your ballast solid wire is 18 guage, use 16 guage stranded, unless
you are going a longer distance then jump up to 14 guage or even 12
guage stranded on long runs.

One thing you may want to watch for is the amperage of the ballasts.
I see more and more ballasts that are underpowered for the job at
hand. More often than not, I will see replacement ballasts sold for
example a 40 watt application, but the ballast milliamp rating is way
to low for 40 watt usage, more like 35 watt usage.

Most resellers of ballasts do not disclose the amperage of the
ballasts they sell, they list part numbers, listed wattage claim and
voltage. Which is one of the reasons I switched from ballasts to
in-line transformers, you know what you are buying as all the specs
are clear and precise.

Electronic ballasts are great, they run cooler, are cheaper on the ole
electric bill and produce better flicker free light. Unfortunately,
they don't or should I say didn't hold up very long. Therefore their
cost far outweighed the savings in electrical usage costs.

Most of my 40 watt rated fluorescent lamps, especially the actinics
are run using 56 watt ballasts (there is some line loss due to the
distance of the ballasts from the lamps which this helps to make up
for). Most ballasts do have their milliamp rating printed on the
case. One brand may be 50 milliamps or 1/4 amperage higher than
another brand and both are listed for the same lighting application.

Another reason I use transformers is cost. A transformer usually
costs less than half of what a ballast for the same application costs.
They produce less heat, and if a bulb is out, they use no electricity.
Standard ballasts use current whether the lamp is lit or not!

TTUL
Gary

[Mort]

Thats very interesting Gary. I know a bit about electricity from my HVAC
courses. I thought a ballast also acted as a capicitor. Can you elaborate
on this Transformer method of yours?

TIA

~Mort

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Hi Ken
>
> ALL of my lighting systems have used stranded wire and the
> transformers (I use transformers instead of ballasts) have been remote
> mounted to keep the heat away from the aquaria.
>
> If your ballast solid wire is 18 guage, use 16 guage stranded, unless
> you are going a longer distance then jump up to 14 guage or even 12
> guage stranded on long runs.
>
> One thing you may want to watch for is the amperage of the ballasts.
> I see more and more ballasts that are underpowered for the job at
> hand. More often than not, I will see replacement ballasts sold for
> example a 40 watt application, but the ballast milliamp rating is way
> to low for 40 watt usage, more like 35 watt usage.
>
> Most resellers of ballasts do not disclose the amperage of the
> ballasts they sell, they list part numbers, listed wattage claim and
> voltage. Which is one of the reasons I switched from ballasts to
> in-line transformers, you know what you are buying as all the specs
> are clear and precise.
>
> Electronic ballasts are great, they run cooler, are cheaper on the ole
> electric bill and produce better flicker free light. Unfortunately,
> they don't or should I say didn't hold up very long. Therefore their
> cost far outweighed the savings in electrical usage costs.
>
> Most of my 40 watt rated fluorescent lamps, especially the actinics
> are run using 56 watt ballasts (there is some line loss due to the
> distance of the ballasts from the lamps which this helps to make up
> for). Most ballasts do have their milliamp rating printed on the
> case. One brand may be 50 milliamps or 1/4 amperage higher than
> another brand and both are listed for the same lighting application.
>
> Another reason I use transformers is cost. A transformer usually
> costs less than half of what a ballast for the same application costs.
> They produce less heat, and if a bulb is out, they use no electricity.
> Standard ballasts use current whether the lamp is lit or not!
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>

[Ken N]

Thanks Gary,
The ballast is an Icecap electronic. It has been in use, I just need to put
stranded on the last 8-10 inches or so.

Ken
"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Hi Ken
>
> ALL of my lighting systems have used stranded wire and the
> transformers (I use transformers instead of ballasts) have been remote
> mounted to keep the heat away from the aquaria.
>
> If your ballast solid wire is 18 guage, use 16 guage stranded, unless
> you are going a longer distance then jump up to 14 guage or even 12
> guage stranded on long runs.
>
> One thing you may want to watch for is the amperage of the ballasts.
> I see more and more ballasts that are underpowered for the job at
> hand. More often than not, I will see replacement ballasts sold for
> example a 40 watt application, but the ballast milliamp rating is way
> to low for 40 watt usage, more like 35 watt usage.
>
> Most resellers of ballasts do not disclose the amperage of the
> ballasts they sell, they list part numbers, listed wattage claim and
> voltage. Which is one of the reasons I switched from ballasts to
> in-line transformers, you know what you are buying as all the specs
> are clear and precise.
>
> Electronic ballasts are great, they run cooler, are cheaper on the ole
> electric bill and produce better flicker free light. Unfortunately,
> they don't or should I say didn't hold up very long. Therefore their
> cost far outweighed the savings in electrical usage costs.
>
> Most of my 40 watt rated fluorescent lamps, especially the actinics
> are run using 56 watt ballasts (there is some line loss due to the
> distance of the ballasts from the lamps which this helps to make up
> for). Most ballasts do have their milliamp rating printed on the
> case. One brand may be 50 milliamps or 1/4 amperage higher than
> another brand and both are listed for the same lighting application.
>
> Another reason I use transformers is cost. A transformer usually
> costs less than half of what a ballast for the same application costs.
> They produce less heat, and if a bulb is out, they use no electricity.
> Standard ballasts use current whether the lamp is lit or not!
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>

[Mort]

"nanoreef" > wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
> Steve Sells may have written:
> > Speaking as an Electrician,
>
> Isn't there an issue mixing solid and stranded? I was under the
> impression that you cold only use marets with solid, OR stranded, not
> both at the same time.


Are you maybe confusing different materials such as Aluminum vs copper?

~Mort

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Mort

Using transformers is the OLD, like in really OLD, way of connecting
flourescents.
If you remote mount ballasts, it saves one heck of a lot of wire too!
Only 1 wire leads from each transformer to one pin at one end of each
fluorescent lamp. Rather than the 4 wires a ballast uses.
A single neutral wire for all the lamps on your aquaria (one pin at
the other end of the bulb) run back to the neutral at the power
source, usually where your transformers are located.
So, if you are running 8 fluorescent bulbs, you will have only 9 wires
(rather than 32 wires) running from the remote power source.
This leaves two unused pins one at each end of your lamps.
These are connected together through a starter bulb in series with
these two pins. This wire just lays on the backside or upside of the
tube and you can use aluminum burglar window or copper stained glass
self adhesive foil instead of wire for this purpose.

The wiring for transformers is quite simple, at your wall outlet you
have a ground, a neutral and a hot. The hot goes to one lead of the
transformer, the other lead goes to one pin of the lamp.
From the other end of the lamp, a wire runs back to the neutral of
your outlet.
The two remaining pins on the lamp, one at each end, are connected
together with a starter bulb in series. I usually use self adhesive
copper foil affixed to the bulb itself for this purpose. And mount
the starter bulb at the neutral end of the lamp for convenience.
If you take a starter can apart, you will find most contain just a
starter bulb. Some also contain a small capacitor. I normally don't
use the capacitor at all unless I'm using 6 foot or 8 foot lamps.
And if you use endcaps for your bulbs, they can be prewired with the
starters in the hole in the ends ready to go.

I used to keep all of my spare lamps wired and ready to go, and for
safety, after wiring them, would dip the ends in some stuff called
plasti-dip-your-grip, leaving a 12 inch pigtail (two wires) loose on
each lamp for connection to a terminal block to the side of the
aquarium.

TTUL
Gary

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Ken

Electronic ballasts are the best way to go, most run at 20,000 cycles
or above, rather than the 60 cycles of magnetic ballasts. Which means
the lamps burn brighter and are more efficient, normally last longer
before a spectrum shift and they consume a whole lot less electricity.
They also run a lot cooler too!

I have not used electronic ballasts in a long time, because of the
short lifespan they used to have. Which I am sure is much greater
now, as I have many electronic (switching) power supplies for other
purposes in use now and they often outlast the old transformer
bridge/diode types. Besides being a whole lot lighter.

As far as my aquarium lighting, it would be a major undertaking to
change the system I have been using for eons. What's that old saying,
if it works, don't fix it, hi hi.....

TTUL
Gary

[Marc Levenson]

I'd love to see some pictures of all that you described. I get the general
idea, but I doubt I could actually do as you said without some visuals. Is this
with NO only, or VHO?

Using IceCap ballasts, I only have 4 or 6 wires going up, as two bulbs use a
common wire to complete the loop, IIRC.

Marc


"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote:

> Hi Mort
>
> Using transformers is the OLD, like in really OLD, way of connecting
> flourescents.
> If you remote mount ballasts, it saves one heck of a lot of wire too!
> Only 1 wire leads from each transformer to one pin at one end of each
> fluorescent lamp. Rather than the 4 wires a ballast uses.
> A single neutral wire for all the lamps on your aquaria (one pin at
> the other end of the bulb) run back to the neutral at the power
> source, usually where your transformers are located.
> So, if you are running 8 fluorescent bulbs, you will have only 9 wires
> (rather than 32 wires) running from the remote power source.
> This leaves two unused pins one at each end of your lamps.
> These are connected together through a starter bulb in series with
> these two pins. This wire just lays on the backside or upside of the
> tube and you can use aluminum burglar window or copper stained glass
> self adhesive foil instead of wire for this purpose.
>
> The wiring for transformers is quite simple, at your wall outlet you
> have a ground, a neutral and a hot. The hot goes to one lead of the
> transformer, the other lead goes to one pin of the lamp.
> From the other end of the lamp, a wire runs back to the neutral of
> your outlet.
> The two remaining pins on the lamp, one at each end, are connected
> together with a starter bulb in series. I usually use self adhesive
> copper foil affixed to the bulb itself for this purpose. And mount
> the starter bulb at the neutral end of the lamp for convenience.
> If you take a starter can apart, you will find most contain just a
> starter bulb. Some also contain a small capacitor. I normally don't
> use the capacitor at all unless I'm using 6 foot or 8 foot lamps.
> And if you use endcaps for your bulbs, they can be prewired with the
> starters in the hole in the ends ready to go.
>
> I used to keep all of my spare lamps wired and ready to go, and for
> safety, after wiring them, would dip the ends in some stuff called
> plasti-dip-your-grip, leaving a 12 inch pigtail (two wires) loose on
> each lamp for connection to a terminal block to the side of the
> aquarium.
>
> TTUL
> Gary

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Mark

It can be NO, VHO or even T5. You just use the transformer rated for
the lamp it goes to.

These are simple 2 wire transformers, so technically they don't
transform anything, they act more like choke than a transformer in
usage.

I'll try my hand at some ASCII art here to see if it will help you.

|-------------|
---Hot Wire In---| Transformer |-----Hot Wire Out----------
|-------------| |
|
___Starter Bulb___________________________ |
| | |
| --------------------------------------- | |
|-| |--| |
| Fluorescent Lamp Bulb | |
---Neutral-----| |-----
---------------------------------------

The hot wire goes to one lead on the transformer, then from the other
lead on the transformer to one pin on the lamp. The pin at the other
end of the lamp goes back to neutral. That finishes this part of the
circuit.
A second circuit is used to start the lamp and consists of a starter
bulb with one lead going to the unused pin at one end of the lamp and
the other lead going to the other unused pin at the other end of the
lamp.

If you use several lamps, all of the neutrals can be tied together to
save wire, but step up to a larger size wire from the run back to the
neutral terminal or outlet.

TTUL
Gary

[Marc Levenson]

So what is a starter bulb? I was thinking it was the first bulb in the series,
until I studied your artwork. Nice job!

Marc


"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote:

> Hi Mark
>
> It can be NO, VHO or even T5. You just use the transformer rated for
> the lamp it goes to.
>
> These are simple 2 wire transformers, so technically they don't
> transform anything, they act more like choke than a transformer in
> usage.
>
> I'll try my hand at some ASCII art here to see if it will help you.
>
> |-------------|
> ---Hot Wire In---| Transformer |-----Hot Wire Out----------
> |-------------| |
> |
> ___Starter Bulb___________________________ |
> | | |
> | --------------------------------------- | |
> |-| |--| |
> | Fluorescent Lamp Bulb | |
> ---Neutral-----| |-----
> ---------------------------------------
>
> The hot wire goes to one lead on the transformer, then from the other
> lead on the transformer to one pin on the lamp. The pin at the other
> end of the lamp goes back to neutral. That finishes this part of the
> circuit.
> A second circuit is used to start the lamp and consists of a starter
> bulb with one lead going to the unused pin at one end of the lamp and
> the other lead going to the other unused pin at the other end of the
> lamp.
>
> If you use several lamps, all of the neutrals can be tied together to
> save wire, but step up to a larger size wire from the run back to the
> neutral terminal or outlet.
>
> TTUL
> Gary

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Kevin M]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
| So what is a starter bulb? I was thinking it was the first bulb in the
series,
| until I studied your artwork. Nice job!
|
| Marc


A Starter "bulb" is a little metal can that has electrodes inside that arc
together when juice is applied to the circuit. You may have seen them on
those little prefab, under counter lights. There's a little hole in the top
of the can, and you can see the arc when it's energized. You can get these
at Home Depot, near the flourescent ballasts.

Kev

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Marc

A starter bulb is a step up from a push button to make starting the
light automatic rather than a manual operation, so you can use a timer
or remote switch.

You'll slap yourself on the forehead and go doh when I tell you.

Older style and even some newer fluorescent lamps use Starters, but
today, the starter is usually hidden inside, so you buy a new fixture
rather than replace the starter when it goes bad. At least that's
what the manufacturers are hoping.

At your hardware store, in the lighting section, enchimed in a shiny
aluminum can, is the starter bulb. They are rated for the wattage
lights they will start properly, although they are all basically the
same thing. The can the bulb is in is the most expensive part, so if
you have a local electrical supply house, you can often buy starter
bulbs without the expensive can, usually 6 on a blister pack card for
like 89 cents + tax.
If I have one in a can, I will usually open the can and take the bulb
out and use it by itself.

FWIW: Once a fluorescent lamp is lit, that part of the circuit can be
removed and the lamp will stay lit as long as power is supplied to it.

A fluorescent lamp consists of TWO incandescent lamps (heaters) at
each end of a long glass tube that the inside is coated with
phosphors, and a gas is released into the tubes vacuum. The gas used
MUST be heated to ignite, thus the reason for the heaters at each end.
All fluorescent lamps are made this way!

The terms rapid start, etc. actually refer to the ballast, although
some rapid start lamps have larger coils in the heaters to prevent
premature burnout.

When using a ballast, the lamps heaters are normally always on!
Eating electricity and shortening the life of the bulb.
When using a transformer (and starter) the lamps heaters are normally
OFF. Only turned on long enough for the lamp to start. Using starter
driven lamps reduces the affect you see as black ends on the
fluorescent tubes.

Many folks have had trouble getting their aquarium lighting setups to
fire up the Actinic lamps, because they take more starting current,
something normal fluorescent ballasts may not have if manufactured for
the easy to start Cool White bulbs.

It is hard to find low cost fixtures that come with Daylight bulbs,
but Daylight is your better lighting choice for MOST applications
where fluorescent may be utilized. Color rendition is truer!
And actually, in a reading room, where Cool White is the most common
choice, eye ease GREEN is really the more optimal choice, even though
it's initially hard to get used to being in a green lit room, it makes
a big difference in eye strain and headaches associated with reading
and/or doing paperwork not associated with color rendition.

TTUL
Gary

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Kevin

I see you found out the little trick of under cabinet light
manufacturers to get folks to keep buying new fixtures, hi hi.....

Many years ago I worked on electronic gaming equipment. One of the
machines was a bowler with fluorescent lit pins that raised up as the
steel puck slid over the contact wires. It was a nightmare of a
machine to keep working properly.
But the reason I brought it up, was because it used a single
transformer to power every single fluorescent lamp in the machine, and
most would turn on and off individually, depending which ones you
knocked down in your turn.

At one time I had the schematic for this wiring system, but lost it in
one of our wonderful floods. But what intrigued me the most was that
no starters were used to fire the lamps, they used a series of
momentary contact electronic relays that was powered by the lamps
themselves, much the same way as a starter is energized. We were
forever replacing these relays as they would arc together way to
often. I finally began replacing these relays as they burned out with
starter bulbs. Once all had finally been replaced, we rarely had
problems with the lighting system on this machine.

But for the life of me, I cannot remember how they used a larger
transformer to handle all the lights, without overpowering them.
I wish I could remember, and have studied it quite often. They HAD to
be wired in parallel in order to function individually. But I don't
remember any power limiting resistors or circuits in the lines that
ran the bulbs. And I know there were no other small transformers or
chokes.

It would be nice to only have one transformer rather than a whole wall
of small ones for all of the lights I was running.

TTUL
Gary

[Ct Midnite]

Ok, you've convinced me. So where do you get transformers? Radio
Shack? And what would you look for with ratings? What would the
transformer be for and what would it say on it?

Take a double 30watt setup or you pick and give the specifics.

Thank you very much. Very informative.

Ct Midnite

On 17 Feb 2004 11:25:35 EST, (Gary V.
Deutschmann, Sr.) wrote:

>Hi Marc
>
>A starter bulb is a step up from a push button to make starting the
>light automatic rather than a manual operation, so you can use a timer
>or remote switch.
>
>You'll slap yourself on the forehead and go doh when I tell you.
>
>Older style and even some newer fluorescent lamps use Starters, but
>today, the starter is usually hidden inside, so you buy a new fixture
>rather than replace the starter when it goes bad. At least that's
>what the manufacturers are hoping.
>
>At your hardware store, in the lighting section, enchimed in a shiny
>aluminum can, is the starter bulb. They are rated for the wattage
>lights they will start properly, although they are all basically the
>same thing. The can the bulb is in is the most expensive part, so if
>you have a local electrical supply house, you can often buy starter
>bulbs without the expensive can, usually 6 on a blister pack card for
>like 89 cents + tax.
>If I have one in a can, I will usually open the can and take the bulb
>out and use it by itself.
>
>FWIW: Once a fluorescent lamp is lit, that part of the circuit can be
>removed and the lamp will stay lit as long as power is supplied to it.
>
>A fluorescent lamp consists of TWO incandescent lamps (heaters) at
>each end of a long glass tube that the inside is coated with
>phosphors, and a gas is released into the tubes vacuum. The gas used
>MUST be heated to ignite, thus the reason for the heaters at each end.
>All fluorescent lamps are made this way!
>
>The terms rapid start, etc. actually refer to the ballast, although
>some rapid start lamps have larger coils in the heaters to prevent
>premature burnout.
>
>When using a ballast, the lamps heaters are normally always on!
>Eating electricity and shortening the life of the bulb.
>When using a transformer (and starter) the lamps heaters are normally
>OFF. Only turned on long enough for the lamp to start. Using starter
>driven lamps reduces the affect you see as black ends on the
>fluorescent tubes.
>
>Many folks have had trouble getting their aquarium lighting setups to
>fire up the Actinic lamps, because they take more starting current,
>something normal fluorescent ballasts may not have if manufactured for
>the easy to start Cool White bulbs.
>
>It is hard to find low cost fixtures that come with Daylight bulbs,
>but Daylight is your better lighting choice for MOST applications
>where fluorescent may be utilized. Color rendition is truer!
>And actually, in a reading room, where Cool White is the most common
>choice, eye ease GREEN is really the more optimal choice, even though
>it's initially hard to get used to being in a green lit room, it makes
>a big difference in eye strain and headaches associated with reading
>and/or doing paperwork not associated with color rendition.
>
>TTUL
>Gary


http://www.geocities.com/ctmidnite53/

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Ct

Most of my older transformers are Magnetronic brand, purchased at the
local hardware store from the lighting department, same place where
ballasts are stocked, usually called ballasts on the box.

All the rest have either come from Grainger or an electronic supply
house.

20, 30 and 40 watt transformers are considered a normal stock item by
most hardware stores that have larger lighting sections.

60, 80 & larger, like for VHO, you will have to get through an
electronics supply house. My larger transformers (ballasts) are made
by Radionics.

TTUL
Gary

[Marc Levenson]

How the heck did we get from Reefing to electronics? LOL This hobby covers way
more than just fish-in-a-box!

Thanks for explaining all those details, as that makes a whole lot of sense. I
did know you can replace that little item, which I thought was a capacitor all
this time. Starter Bulb never entered my mind, even though you can see a little
light in them when you turn on the light.

Have you been reading the thread on ReefCentral.com about 'burning endcaps' by
any chance? Some serious debating is going on in that thread, and from what
I've seen, I'm starting to wonder if it actually is the bulb melting down rather
than it being a wiring issue.

Marc


"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote:

> Hi Marc
>
> A starter bulb is a step up from a push button to make starting the
> light automatic rather than a manual operation, so you can use a timer
> or remote switch.
>
> You'll slap yourself on the forehead and go doh when I tell you.
>
> Older style and even some newer fluorescent lamps use Starters, but
> today, the starter is usually hidden inside, so you buy a new fixture
> rather than replace the starter when it goes bad. At least that's
> what the manufacturers are hoping.
>
> At your hardware store, in the lighting section, enchimed in a shiny
> aluminum can, is the starter bulb. They are rated for the wattage
> lights they will start properly, although they are all basically the
> same thing. The can the bulb is in is the most expensive part, so if
> you have a local electrical supply house, you can often buy starter
> bulbs without the expensive can, usually 6 on a blister pack card for
> like 89 cents + tax.
> If I have one in a can, I will usually open the can and take the bulb
> out and use it by itself.
>
> FWIW: Once a fluorescent lamp is lit, that part of the circuit can be
> removed and the lamp will stay lit as long as power is supplied to it.
>
> A fluorescent lamp consists of TWO incandescent lamps (heaters) at
> each end of a long glass tube that the inside is coated with
> phosphors, and a gas is released into the tubes vacuum. The gas used
> MUST be heated to ignite, thus the reason for the heaters at each end.
> All fluorescent lamps are made this way!
>
> The terms rapid start, etc. actually refer to the ballast, although
> some rapid start lamps have larger coils in the heaters to prevent
> premature burnout.
>
> When using a ballast, the lamps heaters are normally always on!
> Eating electricity and shortening the life of the bulb.
> When using a transformer (and starter) the lamps heaters are normally
> OFF. Only turned on long enough for the lamp to start. Using starter
> driven lamps reduces the affect you see as black ends on the
> fluorescent tubes.
>
> Many folks have had trouble getting their aquarium lighting setups to
> fire up the Actinic lamps, because they take more starting current,
> something normal fluorescent ballasts may not have if manufactured for
> the easy to start Cool White bulbs.
>
> It is hard to find low cost fixtures that come with Daylight bulbs,
> but Daylight is your better lighting choice for MOST applications
> where fluorescent may be utilized. Color rendition is truer!
> And actually, in a reading room, where Cool White is the most common
> choice, eye ease GREEN is really the more optimal choice, even though
> it's initially hard to get used to being in a green lit room, it makes
> a big difference in eye strain and headaches associated with reading
> and/or doing paperwork not associated with color rendition.
>
> TTUL
> Gary

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Marc

Lighting and Electronics is a major part of reefkeeping!
As is supply and waste plumbing.
Not to mention water pre-treatment facilities.
<G>

I'll have to jump over there and have a look see.
But, end caps do hold in the heat, sometimes too well.
And if they are using ballasts that keep the heaters on all of the
time, it's like having an incandescent lamp at each end of the tube,
which can generate one heck of a lot of heat.
Another reason I prefer the archaic way of doing some things, like
lighting fluorescent tubes.

I'm sure your familiar with Christmas tree light flashers! The bulb
that makes the whole string flash.
A lamp starter is just about the same thing, but designed for its
intended purpose and the wattage bulbs it will trigger.

I should make mention that some of the LARGER fluorescent lamps,
especially those really odd and hard to find T-17s, 90 to 100 watt
actinics, DO NEED the capacitor, and to be safe, the whole starter
unit should be used intact with their quasi circuit breaker.
I have a custom 5 foot aquarium that uses naturally 5 foot bulbs,
T-17's. The hood came with standard rapid start ballasts and this
baby put out one heck of a lot of heat.
I replaced the ballasts with transformers and starters and the heat
level dropped to about 1/2 half of what this hood was originally
producing.
At the same time, I learned a lot more about these larger sized
starters. The capacitor is there I think, to prevent the starter bulb
from arcing itself and welding the contacts together. Also to help
prevent this, and act as a fuse, is a small heater coil against a
bi-metalic strip. The Sylvania starters have the bimetalic strip
wrapped around a resistor and it will reset itself automatically.
The Bryant starters omit the resistor entirely and have a spring
contact that remains open, until you press the reset button.
Although the latter sounds like the better choice in a starter,
because you will know the lamp triggered the fuse action and have to
reset it manually, when used with actinic bulbs, it can be an exercise
in frustration. So the automatic reset is your better way to go.
Actinics take a lot more to start them than normal lamps, so the
manual reset starters can be quite aggrivating, because they trip so
often. Stick with the automatic reset type starters if you go to
large hi-output fluorescent lamps.

You can call me weird, but all of my starter bulbs are mounted on the
same end of the hoods in holes that have a glass cover that they sit
in. I like to see them flash when the lights start!

TTUL
Gary

[Marc Levenson]

Here's the thread. It is long, and the opinions are all over the place, but
since you seem to have a good deal of working knowledge on this topic, I suggest
you brew a full pot of coffee and do some reading. I'd like to hear what you
have to say, even if you only post it over here.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=250465&highlight=endcaps

Btw, don't think I didn't read all the information you typed below, because I
did. It just isn't in my field of practice, but I do enjoy learning other
methods of getting things accomplished.

Marc


"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote:

> Hi Marc
>
> Lighting and Electronics is a major part of reefkeeping!
> As is supply and waste plumbing.
> Not to mention water pre-treatment facilities.
> <G>
>
> I'll have to jump over there and have a look see.
> But, end caps do hold in the heat, sometimes too well.
> And if they are using ballasts that keep the heaters on all of the
> time, it's like having an incandescent lamp at each end of the tube,
> which can generate one heck of a lot of heat.
> Another reason I prefer the archaic way of doing some things, like
> lighting fluorescent tubes.
>
> I'm sure your familiar with Christmas tree light flashers! The bulb
> that makes the whole string flash.
> A lamp starter is just about the same thing, but designed for its
> intended purpose and the wattage bulbs it will trigger.
>
> I should make mention that some of the LARGER fluorescent lamps,
> especially those really odd and hard to find T-17s, 90 to 100 watt
> actinics, DO NEED the capacitor, and to be safe, the whole starter
> unit should be used intact with their quasi circuit breaker.
> I have a custom 5 foot aquarium that uses naturally 5 foot bulbs,
> T-17's. The hood came with standard rapid start ballasts and this
> baby put out one heck of a lot of heat.
> I replaced the ballasts with transformers and starters and the heat
> level dropped to about 1/2 half of what this hood was originally
> producing.
> At the same time, I learned a lot more about these larger sized
> starters. The capacitor is there I think, to prevent the starter bulb
> from arcing itself and welding the contacts together. Also to help
> prevent this, and act as a fuse, is a small heater coil against a
> bi-metalic strip. The Sylvania starters have the bimetalic strip
> wrapped around a resistor and it will reset itself automatically.
> The Bryant starters omit the resistor entirely and have a spring
> contact that remains open, until you press the reset button.
> Although the latter sounds like the better choice in a starter,
> because you will know the lamp triggered the fuse action and have to
> reset it manually, when used with actinic bulbs, it can be an exercise
> in frustration. So the automatic reset is your better way to go.
> Actinics take a lot more to start them than normal lamps, so the
> manual reset starters can be quite aggrivating, because they trip so
> often. Stick with the automatic reset type starters if you go to
> large hi-output fluorescent lamps.
>
> You can call me weird, but all of my starter bulbs are mounted on the
> same end of the hoods in holes that have a glass cover that they sit
> in. I like to see them flash when the lights start!
>
> TTUL
> Gary

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Steve Sells]

Al and Cu can be used BUT they need a anti oxidant like NOLOX in the joints,
it is NOT a good idea really to mix, tho I have to when putting a Service
Entrance as the over head wiring coming in from the poles are Al, and the
std. inside wiring is Cu.

The Mixing of solid and stranded is common in Lighting harnesses. the
stranded coming from the transformers, to a wire nut joint at the end cap.
that has factory solid coming from the end caps.

IT IS good practice to keep the type and gauging the same through out the
bulbs harness, not just a bad habit , it can cause phase shifts to NOT match
wiring gauge or wire type ( se, thhw, thwn, rhw) to the various bulbs end
caps.

I.e. use all 14 gauge or all 16 gauge. don't mix the gauges, its only a
few penny's per foot. With as much as we spend on Coral's and fish. pumps,
etc., Why get cheap with the wiring to try to save just 30 cents ?
..
Steve





> > Isn't there an issue mixing solid and stranded? I was under the
> > impression that you cold only use marets with solid, OR stranded, not
> > both at the same time.
>
>
> Are you maybe confusing different materials such as Aluminum vs copper?
>
> ~Mort
>

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Marc

That topic is getting quite long, I read up through page seven and saw
there were several more pages to go.

It appears that most of the commentary is regarding arcing within the
endcaps, which are NOT fireproof, which means they also are probably
not UL approved either.

I had a similar experience many many years ago with some endcaps and
have not used any since that time. All of my lights are hard wired
with pigtails and most are dipped in plasti-dip-your-grip to insulate
the ends. And on occassion, even this stuff turns brown from the heat
of the fluorescent tube ends. Especially on the Actinic bulbs.

Most of the articles concerning fluorescent lamps discuss the high
heat produced by incandescents, because the tungsten filament is
heated to white hot to produce the light.

To downplay the role of the heaters in fluorescent tubes, these
heaters are often referred to as electrodes. The term electrode is
proper AFTER the lamp is burning, but before the lamp is burning, they
are a high temperature heating unit.

I often see the phrase "The problem with incandescent light bulbs is
that the heat wastes a lot of electricity."
Then they go on to say that fluorescent is completely different!

How light is produced in a fluorescent lamp is completely different
than incandescent, BUT the heaters used to get the lamp to light is NO
different per-se than an incandescent light bult, a fluorescent tube
has TWO heaters, one at each end. The filament is much heavier guage
than an incandescent light and therefore does not become white hot,
but it still heats up just the same.

On fluorescent lamps using standard rapid start ballasts, these
heaters are always on! Burning up electricity and generating heat.

If one uses the old starter method with a transformer (ballast) to
fire up the lights, the heaters are only on during the starting phase
and then the heaters shut down. They consume less electricity and
produce much less heat, especially on the ends where the heaters are
located.

Using end caps is not much unlike packing insulation around the ends
of the bulbs where the heaters are and raising the temperature at the
bulb ends considerably.

Most folks know that fluorescent tubes contain some type of gas, that
gas is Argon, but they also contain a metal, now known as quite
hazardous, this metal is Mercury!
To help explain how fluorescents work, most simply say they contain
Argon Gas and Mercury Vapor!
Huh? Mercury is a metal, probably the only metal that is a liquid at
room temperature. It does not become a 'vapor' until heated into it's
gaseous state. Thus the reason for the heaters in fluorescent tubes!

I may be in error in my next comment, but I don't think that Argon
will conduct electricity, meaning a lamp without the Mercury will not
burn. But that may not be exactly correct as I have worked on various
neon lights that burned quite well and none of them had any Mercury in
them that I am aware of. Unless it was already an integral part of
the ignitor assemblys that were sealed into the tubes. I didn't delve
that far into it.

But for the sake of explaining how a fluorescent tube burns and
produces light, this explanation is plenty accurate.

As current is continuously applied through the tube, through the
electrodes, circuit one. Circuit two momentarily kicks in warming the
heaters, which allows the Mercury to come to a vapor state. After the
mercury reaches its vaporous state a stream of electrons flow through
the gasses in the tube from one electrode to the other and the lamp
begins to burn.
The electrons bump into the mercury atoms and excite them. As they
move from their excited state back to their unexcited state, they give
off ultraviolet photons. These photons hit the phosphor coating
inside the tube causing the phosphor to create visible light.
The phosphor fluoresces to produce visible light and that is why the
tubes are named fluorescent lamps.

A fluorescent tube using a rapid start ballast is about 4 times more
efficient than an incandescent bulb. However, that same fluorescent
tube using a starter and transformer is more like 6 times more
efficient as the heaters are not burning after the light is ignited.
Thus they also run cooler and last longer than using rapid start
ballasts.

There are actually many more methods of producing visible light that
would be greatly more efficient that fluorescent lighting, but these
methods always bring us back to the high heat problems. Such as in
sodium or mercury vapor high intensity discharge lighting, where the
vapor themselves are heated to white hot and beyond to produce visible
light.

But if you want to keep your cool, fluorescent lighting is currently
the only truly affordabe way to go, and through technological advances
in fluorescent lighting, we now have fluorescent outputs approaching
that of high intensity discharge lamps, only without the heat.

We already have ultra-cool running LED lighting, which is slowly
becoming more popular and slightly lower in cost. Work in producing
specific lighting ranges has been long underway, so it won't be long
before we can simply purchase a flat LED panel to place over our
aquaria that contain the perfect spectrum for the species of livestock
you are maintaining.

Many of you may not be old enough to remember when flat panel lighting
became a fad for a short time. But for a few years, we did have flat
fluorescent lighting panels. They did not work for aquaria as they
took up too much space for the output they produced, but for other
lighting purposes they were great.

You may on occasion see a remnant of this era with the flat round
normally blue Panelscent nightlights that are still on sale today.
But they use a totally different lighting principle than the larger
fluorescent panel lights of days gone by.

TTUL
Gary

[Marc Levenson]

Gary, I can't remember how long that thread is, but I thought it was 9pages...
In the most recent posts, discussion of making ceramic endcaps was covered, as
well as putting a heat sensor in the endcap to shut off the ballast if it went
over 400F.

Did you post any of your thoughts in that thread by any chance? If not, would
it be alright if I copy and pasted some of these comments in that thread... The
more participation, the more likely fires may be prevented.

I've never had any problems with my URI bulbs and Icecap ballasts, but your
transformers are really starting to sound like a far better option.

Did you notice Fricks-n-Frags soldered his wires directly to the bulbs, as you
mentioned you do as well?

Marc


"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote:

> Hi Marc
>
> That topic is getting quite long, I read up through page seven and saw
> there were several more pages to go.
>
> It appears that most of the commentary is regarding arcing within the
> endcaps, which are NOT fireproof, which means they also are probably
> not UL approved either.
>
> I had a similar experience many many years ago with some endcaps and
> have not used any since that time. All of my lights are hard wired
> with pigtails and most are dipped in plasti-dip-your-grip to insulate
> the ends. And on occassion, even this stuff turns brown from the heat
> of the fluorescent tube ends. Especially on the Actinic bulbs.
>
> Most of the articles concerning fluorescent lamps discuss the high
> heat produced by incandescents, because the tungsten filament is
> heated to white hot to produce the light.
>
> To downplay the role of the heaters in fluorescent tubes, these
> heaters are often referred to as electrodes. The term electrode is
> proper AFTER the lamp is burning, but before the lamp is burning, they
> are a high temperature heating unit.
>
> I often see the phrase "The problem with incandescent light bulbs is
> that the heat wastes a lot of electricity."
> Then they go on to say that fluorescent is completely different!
>
> How light is produced in a fluorescent lamp is completely different
> than incandescent, BUT the heaters used to get the lamp to light is NO
> different per-se than an incandescent light bult, a fluorescent tube
> has TWO heaters, one at each end. The filament is much heavier guage
> than an incandescent light and therefore does not become white hot,
> but it still heats up just the same.
>
> On fluorescent lamps using standard rapid start ballasts, these
> heaters are always on! Burning up electricity and generating heat.
>
> If one uses the old starter method with a transformer (ballast) to
> fire up the lights, the heaters are only on during the starting phase
> and then the heaters shut down. They consume less electricity and
> produce much less heat, especially on the ends where the heaters are
> located.
>
> Using end caps is not much unlike packing insulation around the ends
> of the bulbs where the heaters are and raising the temperature at the
> bulb ends considerably.
>
> Most folks know that fluorescent tubes contain some type of gas, that
> gas is Argon, but they also contain a metal, now known as quite
> hazardous, this metal is Mercury!
> To help explain how fluorescents work, most simply say they contain
> Argon Gas and Mercury Vapor!
> Huh? Mercury is a metal, probably the only metal that is a liquid at
> room temperature. It does not become a 'vapor' until heated into it's
> gaseous state. Thus the reason for the heaters in fluorescent tubes!
>
> I may be in error in my next comment, but I don't think that Argon
> will conduct electricity, meaning a lamp without the Mercury will not
> burn. But that may not be exactly correct as I have worked on various
> neon lights that burned quite well and none of them had any Mercury in
> them that I am aware of. Unless it was already an integral part of
> the ignitor assemblys that were sealed into the tubes. I didn't delve
> that far into it.
>
> But for the sake of explaining how a fluorescent tube burns and
> produces light, this explanation is plenty accurate.
>
> As current is continuously applied through the tube, through the
> electrodes, circuit one. Circuit two momentarily kicks in warming the
> heaters, which allows the Mercury to come to a vapor state. After the
> mercury reaches its vaporous state a stream of electrons flow through
> the gasses in the tube from one electrode to the other and the lamp
> begins to burn.
> The electrons bump into the mercury atoms and excite them. As they
> move from their excited state back to their unexcited state, they give
> off ultraviolet photons. These photons hit the phosphor coating
> inside the tube causing the phosphor to create visible light.
> The phosphor fluoresces to produce visible light and that is why the
> tubes are named fluorescent lamps.
>
> A fluorescent tube using a rapid start ballast is about 4 times more
> efficient than an incandescent bulb. However, that same fluorescent
> tube using a starter and transformer is more like 6 times more
> efficient as the heaters are not burning after the light is ignited.
> Thus they also run cooler and last longer than using rapid start
> ballasts.
>
> There are actually many more methods of producing visible light that
> would be greatly more efficient that fluorescent lighting, but these
> methods always bring us back to the high heat problems. Such as in
> sodium or mercury vapor high intensity discharge lighting, where the
> vapor themselves are heated to white hot and beyond to produce visible
> light.
>
> But if you want to keep your cool, fluorescent lighting is currently
> the only truly affordabe way to go, and through technological advances
> in fluorescent lighting, we now have fluorescent outputs approaching
> that of high intensity discharge lamps, only without the heat.
>
> We already have ultra-cool running LED lighting, which is slowly
> becoming more popular and slightly lower in cost. Work in producing
> specific lighting ranges has been long underway, so it won't be long
> before we can simply purchase a flat LED panel to place over our
> aquaria that contain the perfect spectrum for the species of livestock
> you are maintaining.
>
> Many of you may not be old enough to remember when flat panel lighting
> became a fad for a short time. But for a few years, we did have flat
> fluorescent lighting panels. They did not work for aquaria as they
> took up too much space for the output they produced, but for other
> lighting purposes they were great.
>
> You may on occasion see a remnant of this era with the flat round
> normally blue Panelscent nightlights that are still on sale today.
> But they use a totally different lighting principle than the larger
> fluorescent panel lights of days gone by.
>
> TTUL
> Gary

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Marc

When I got up to page 7, the indicator bar was then showing page 10
was available and possibly more.

Yes you may reppost over to ReefCentral!

Ceramic would definately be better than rubber or plastic, but your
still talking about installed clips sliding over pins that are all not
the same diameter, this is more than likely what causes most of the
arcing problems. Every brand of fluorescent lamp I have, the
connector pins are of a different guage. Some are even quite thick.

I used individual push-on clips for awhile, but after losing contact a
couple of times, I went to hard wiring (soldering) leads to the lamps
and either using heat shrink tubing over the exposed connections
and/or dipping the end of the bulb, just slightly onto the glass, like
1/4 inch is all, in plasti-dip-your-grip. I'm sure there is something
better than the plasti-dip-your-grip, but it is what was readily
available and worked, so I've used it ever since.

I normally buy my normal length fluorescents by the case to save
money, and when the case arrives, I sit down and prepare all of the
lamps in the case with pigtails and starter bulbs and have them ready
to go for when the time comes to replace a lamp. The oddball sizes,
like 5 foot lamps are too expensive to start with, so I only buy the
ones I need for the next round of replacements. But I doubt I will be
buying any more 5 foot lamps at all, I have already been switching to
4 foot lamps and staggering them a foot off-center either way,
alternating and adding two extra lamps to make up for the lower end
light.

I was recently at a fellow aquarists home who had a beautiful reef in
his living room behind the couch, with access to it from the laundry
room behind the living room wall. The aquarium wasn't what would be
considered built in, but backless cabinetry in the living room, hid
the hole through the wall where he access the aquarium.

I bring this up, because of his lighting, which was 100% fluorescent,
using short 20inch T5 lamps spaced 2 inches between them, down the
entire length of the aquaria. He had over 15,000 footcandles of light
reaching the surface of the substrate using these T5s. Tested with a
GE color and cosine corrected light meter. Although I use a few T5s
myself, I have never attained that high of lighting, mine is just over
10,000 footcandles, which has always been quite sufficient for me.

TTUL
Gary