Deaths

[Darren]

I recently expierienced two fish deaths, both at the same time one
being a coral beauty, the other being an oriental sweetlips juvenile.
Amonia was 0, Nitrite was 0 and Nitrate 20ppm, I suspected the problem
being my PH level of 7.4 which took me by supprise, but the odd thing
is that it did not affect any of my inverts or corals.

Can anyone please shed any light as to why it affected these fish
only.

I have a 50 gallon tank, rena XP2 filter, Prism Skimmer hosting
various corals Inverts and fish, listed below
2 clowns percs
yellow tang
humbug
various starfish, slugs,crabs and snails
Pulse coral
Brain coral
finger coral
various mushrooms and polyps.

[Mort]

How old is your tank?

How long did you have the fish in question?

In another post you said your pH was 8.2. A swing of 8.2 to 7.4 can be very
dratic depending on how long it took to occur. Do you know the elapsed time
between readings?

A pH of 8.1-8.4 is recommended for the Coral beauty and could very likely be
the cause of death...

hth

~Mort

"Darren" > wrote in message
om...
> I recently expierienced two fish deaths, both at the same time one
> being a coral beauty, the other being an oriental sweetlips juvenile.
> Amonia was 0, Nitrite was 0 and Nitrate 20ppm, I suspected the problem
> being my PH level of 7.4 which took me by supprise, but the odd thing
> is that it did not affect any of my inverts or corals.
>
> Can anyone please shed any light as to why it affected these fish
> only.
>
> I have a 50 gallon tank, rena XP2 filter, Prism Skimmer hosting
> various corals Inverts and fish, listed below
> 2 clowns percs
> yellow tang
> humbug
> various starfish, slugs,crabs and snails
> Pulse coral
> Brain coral
> finger coral
> various mushrooms and polyps.

[Pszemol]

"Mort" > wrote in message ...
> A pH of 8.1-8.4 is recommended for the Coral beauty and could
> very likely be the cause of death...

I personally doubt it.
Fish can feel not comfortable but it will not die from pH 7.4 alone.

I would rather blame shipping stress, starvation (less likely for
two fish in the same day) or some other, unknown factor...
Especialy knowing other fish in the tank are doing perfectly fine.

7.4 is a serious indicator of very high level of disolved organic waste
in the water, but I would not panic and bring it *slowly* up with
frequent water changes and restriction of fish feeding.

[Mort]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Mort" > wrote in message
...
> > A pH of 8.1-8.4 is recommended for the Coral beauty and could
> > very likely be the cause of death...
>
> I personally doubt it.
> Fish can feel not comfortable but it will not die from pH 7.4 alone.
>

A swing of that nature in a short period could kill a fish couldn't it?

Considering that a pH of 8.2 is EIGHTY times more basic than 7.4 I would be
very concerned.

Not to say shipping stress or starvation did not contribute but a swing of
this nature should not be easily dismissed. Or should it?

~Mort

[Richard Reynolds]

> > > A pH of 8.1-8.4 is recommended for the Coral beauty and could
> > > very likely be the cause of death...
> > I personally doubt it.
> > Fish can feel not comfortable but it will not die from pH 7.4 alone.
> A swing of that nature in a short period could kill a fish couldn't it?
>
> Considering that a pH of 8.2 is EIGHTY times more basic than 7.4 I would be
> very concerned.
>
> Not to say shipping stress or starvation did not contribute but a swing of
> this nature should not be easily dismissed. Or should it?

fish are not that sensitive to pH swings, corals and inverts thats a different story, and
a continously low or high pH can have problems
the other thing to think about is why is the pH swinging. many of those can effect fish.


--
Richard Reynolds

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Darren

Some collectors still use a commercial brand of a product similar to
slime coat in their collection tanks and shipping water.
This particular brand irreversably damages the gills of many species
of fish. Which is why it is so rare to see it these days.
Many fish foods and some additives contain an inert ingredient that is
not harmful unless a fish has been treated with this brand of stress
coat and the gills are already damaged.
The damaged gills become coated with a natural flemlike substance in
their futile attempt to heal. This flemlike coating hardens in the
presence of certain fish foods and some additives, causing the fish to
starve for oxygen.

Also a low ph can cause this flemlike coating on the gills to harden.

It's sad to lose a pet, but it's even sadder that some collectors
still use these harmful products with their livestock.

I'm not saying for sure that is what happened in your case, as there
are millions of things that could have triggered their death,
including parasites and certain bacteria.

But, more often than not, when two are more fish suddenly expire and
the rest seem OK, an autopsy will reveal the fish were already
suffering from irreversible gill damage from a commercially availabie
additive used when they were captured.

NOTE that this is only one commercial brand of the product that does
this, not the hobby product sold under the trade name Slime-Coat which
is safe to use.

TTUL
Gary

[Richard Reynolds]

> NOTE that this is only one commercial brand of the product that does
> this, not the hobby product sold under the trade name Slime-Coat which
> is safe to use.

got a name for it anyway ??? or maybee a better yahoo search keyword?


--
Richard Reynolds

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Richard

A number of years ago I knew about three different brand names it was
being sold under, but those brand names no longer appear in the
commercial marketplace.
But on occassion, I see or hear of deaths associated with the same
symptoms that that product had caused.
So I'm sure some commercial catchers are still getting it from
somewhere. And possibly they don't even know it's the old stuff that
caused problems for a number of years for aquarists, because it is
probably being sold under yet another trade name again.

I wish I could remember the chemical that is causing the problem so I
could list it here. But even so, most aquatic suppliers and
manufacturers don't list their ingredients anyhow.

If I can find it again, I'll post it, it may save someone's livestock.

TTUL
Gary