Deep Sand Bed and Red Algae nightmare

[Mark]

I have a 125 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed. That's 4-5" of
Aragamax sand. I find that I am having horrendous problems with red
algae covering everything. I did a 50% water change last week and
already everything's covered again. I can practically set my watch by
it.

All fish are very healthy (growing noticeably) and the corals (pretty
much all soft) are as healthy as they can be considering they
regularly get covered over by a sheet of red algae. The algae that
forms on the sand normally has a lot of gas bubbles that form under
them and within a day lifts a sheet of it up to the top of the water
and it gets pulled to my overflow.

Everytime I test my water parameters, they look very good -- no
ammonia, undetectable nitrites and nitrates. I find the Ca and
Alkalinity to be rather strange though. The Alkalinity regularly is
in the vicinity of 12meq/L while Ca is something like the high 300's.
As I'd understood it that was not supposed to be possible. I also
confess that I have not been super-good about adding Ca and buffer
solutions on any kind of a regular basis.

I've done some looking and the answers I see to the problem of red
algae in a deep sand bed tank are either a) you need more water flow
or b) you need to recharge the fauna in the sand. I had a slightly
more powerful pump in the tank when it was first setup, but I found
that it started to blow the sand around and it looked like a hurricane
in there. So I backed the circulating pump off to a slightly lower
flow model and it looks good to me. I saw no dead spots. Recently,
in an effort to see if even high flow would help, I put a reasonably
high powered powerhead in there which really moves the water now. No
effect on the algae problem or its rapid reformation whatsoever.

I've had this problem for many months and had recharged the sand
critters within the last 6 months. I take it that since I have gas
bubbles forming on my sand under the red algae, and that feeding
doesn't seem to be polluting my tank, that says that the deep sand bed
is "working" on some manner.

I feed 1-2 times per day and try not to overfeed, although I've heard
that that's not as likely to be a problem with a DSB tank.

I could throw more $$ at getting an influx of sand critters yet again,
but I have no clue that it's going to help as it didn't really before.
I'm finding that the enjoyment of having a reef is rapidly getting
replaced with the disgust of remove red algae from everything but the
fish every couple of days. I've heard of the red algae removers, but
as I understand it, those kill other things and I don't particularly
want that.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone has a need for
some red algae, I can let some go real cheap :-).

Thanks

Mark

[AJM]

Sounds like you might have a phosphate problem.... better have that checked.
Especially if you don't use RO/DI or distilled water. (I know that our tap
water is full of some nasty stuff!!)

An investment in some 'sand critters' is probably a good idea. Make sure
that you get reef safe. Try some blue leg crabs, turbo snails, etc. I have
heard that you need to add one per gallon, any combo. So with a 125 gal
you'll need a 125 (total) of the little critters.

"Mark" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a 125 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed. That's 4-5" of
> Aragamax sand. I find that I am having horrendous problems with red
> algae covering everything. I did a 50% water change last week and
> already everything's covered again. I can practically set my watch by
> it.
>
> All fish are very healthy (growing noticeably) and the corals (pretty
> much all soft) are as healthy as they can be considering they
> regularly get covered over by a sheet of red algae. The algae that
> forms on the sand normally has a lot of gas bubbles that form under
> them and within a day lifts a sheet of it up to the top of the water
> and it gets pulled to my overflow.
>
> Everytime I test my water parameters, they look very good -- no
> ammonia, undetectable nitrites and nitrates. I find the Ca and
> Alkalinity to be rather strange though. The Alkalinity regularly is
> in the vicinity of 12meq/L while Ca is something like the high 300's.
> As I'd understood it that was not supposed to be possible. I also
> confess that I have not been super-good about adding Ca and buffer
> solutions on any kind of a regular basis.
>
> I've done some looking and the answers I see to the problem of red
> algae in a deep sand bed tank are either a) you need more water flow
> or b) you need to recharge the fauna in the sand. I had a slightly
> more powerful pump in the tank when it was first setup, but I found
> that it started to blow the sand around and it looked like a hurricane
> in there. So I backed the circulating pump off to a slightly lower
> flow model and it looks good to me. I saw no dead spots. Recently,
> in an effort to see if even high flow would help, I put a reasonably
> high powered powerhead in there which really moves the water now. No
> effect on the algae problem or its rapid reformation whatsoever.
>
> I've had this problem for many months and had recharged the sand
> critters within the last 6 months. I take it that since I have gas
> bubbles forming on my sand under the red algae, and that feeding
> doesn't seem to be polluting my tank, that says that the deep sand bed
> is "working" on some manner.
>
> I feed 1-2 times per day and try not to overfeed, although I've heard
> that that's not as likely to be a problem with a DSB tank.
>
> I could throw more $$ at getting an influx of sand critters yet again,
> but I have no clue that it's going to help as it didn't really before.
> I'm finding that the enjoyment of having a reef is rapidly getting
> replaced with the disgust of remove red algae from everything but the
> fish every couple of days. I've heard of the red algae removers, but
> as I understand it, those kill other things and I don't particularly
> want that.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone has a need for
> some red algae, I can let some go real cheap :-).
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

[Marc Levenson]

Have you tested your Phosphates? You want .03 or less. Yours may be as high as
2.0 or more.

Siphon out all that you can see, using airline tubing. You'll lose a little
sand in the process. If you are really attached to your sand, the stuff
siphoned out can be boiled and put outside in the sun for a few days before
adding it back to your tank.

Do you have any creatures to stir the sand, such as hermit crabs, fighting or
queen conch, cucumbers, etc... They can help keep things cleaned up.

How old is your lighting? If the bulbs are old, you might be dealing with a
spectrum shift, which fuels unwanted algae growth.

Marc


Mark wrote:

> I have a 125 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed. That's 4-5" of
> Aragamax sand. I find that I am having horrendous problems with red
> algae covering everything. I did a 50% water change last week and
> already everything's covered again. I can practically set my watch by
> it.
>
> All fish are very healthy (growing noticeably) and the corals (pretty
> much all soft) are as healthy as they can be considering they
> regularly get covered over by a sheet of red algae. The algae that
> forms on the sand normally has a lot of gas bubbles that form under
> them and within a day lifts a sheet of it up to the top of the water
> and it gets pulled to my overflow.
>
> Everytime I test my water parameters, they look very good -- no
> ammonia, undetectable nitrites and nitrates. I find the Ca and
> Alkalinity to be rather strange though. The Alkalinity regularly is
> in the vicinity of 12meq/L while Ca is something like the high 300's.
> As I'd understood it that was not supposed to be possible. I also
> confess that I have not been super-good about adding Ca and buffer
> solutions on any kind of a regular basis.
>
> I've done some looking and the answers I see to the problem of red
> algae in a deep sand bed tank are either a) you need more water flow
> or b) you need to recharge the fauna in the sand. I had a slightly
> more powerful pump in the tank when it was first setup, but I found
> that it started to blow the sand around and it looked like a hurricane
> in there. So I backed the circulating pump off to a slightly lower
> flow model and it looks good to me. I saw no dead spots. Recently,
> in an effort to see if even high flow would help, I put a reasonably
> high powered powerhead in there which really moves the water now. No
> effect on the algae problem or its rapid reformation whatsoever.
>
> I've had this problem for many months and had recharged the sand
> critters within the last 6 months. I take it that since I have gas
> bubbles forming on my sand under the red algae, and that feeding
> doesn't seem to be polluting my tank, that says that the deep sand bed
> is "working" on some manner.
>
> I feed 1-2 times per day and try not to overfeed, although I've heard
> that that's not as likely to be a problem with a DSB tank.
>
> I could throw more $$ at getting an influx of sand critters yet again,
> but I have no clue that it's going to help as it didn't really before.
> I'm finding that the enjoyment of having a reef is rapidly getting
> replaced with the disgust of remove red algae from everything but the
> fish every couple of days. I've heard of the red algae removers, but
> as I understand it, those kill other things and I don't particularly
> want that.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone has a need for
> some red algae, I can let some go real cheap :-).
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Rod]

HAve you ever seeded the sand with live sand that would have fauna that are
actually found in deep sand beds? Some of the various worms that provide path
ways for the 'nasties" to make it down to the deeper parts of the sand bed
where denitrifacation occours? MAny people like to let the critters from the
rock seed their sand bed, but IMO those critters cant do the job alone. (Im not
even gonna mention the bagged live sand) if your sand bed is not functioning
properly, nitrates will build and may not show in test kits because the
nitrates are bound in the cyanobacteria.
What is your salinity at? 1.026-1.027?
Some good water changes, and as Mark said, siphon the cyano out when you do the
water change.
Also as mark said, check your lamps.
Also more current..;. keep alk up and pH high via Kalk additions...
increase/improve protein skimming... I wouldn't worry about phosphate too
much... Read below
""Cyanobacteria have specific chemotypes that can be used to measure bloom
biodiversity. They are poor indicators of nutrient enrichment _ _and have no
relationship with phosphate,_ _ a negative relationship with Nitrogen/Nitrate,
a strong negative relationship with salinity, no relationship with other algae
growth (slightly negative with certain macroalgae (which I asked if it may be
due to secondary metanbolites acting as antibiotics, to which I discovered that
was the next course of study), a positive relationship with temperature and a
strong negative relationship with water motion. They tend to occur in 3 week
cyclical periods and are grazed, by far, primarily by amphipods and sea
hares.""
This is a copy and past from a post that was made by Eric Borneman after
attending the NCRI conference
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[BR549]

Check out this link http://netclub.athiel.com/cyano/cyanos2.htm

BR549

"Mark" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a 125 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed. That's 4-5" of
> Aragamax sand. I find that I am having horrendous problems with red
> algae covering everything. I did a 50% water change last week and
> already everything's covered again. I can practically set my watch by
> it.
>
> All fish are very healthy (growing noticeably) and the corals (pretty
> much all soft) are as healthy as they can be considering they
> regularly get covered over by a sheet of red algae. The algae that
> forms on the sand normally has a lot of gas bubbles that form under
> them and within a day lifts a sheet of it up to the top of the water
> and it gets pulled to my overflow.
>
> Everytime I test my water parameters, they look very good -- no
> ammonia, undetectable nitrites and nitrates. I find the Ca and
> Alkalinity to be rather strange though. The Alkalinity regularly is
> in the vicinity of 12meq/L while Ca is something like the high 300's.
> As I'd understood it that was not supposed to be possible. I also
> confess that I have not been super-good about adding Ca and buffer
> solutions on any kind of a regular basis.
>
> I've done some looking and the answers I see to the problem of red
> algae in a deep sand bed tank are either a) you need more water flow
> or b) you need to recharge the fauna in the sand. I had a slightly
> more powerful pump in the tank when it was first setup, but I found
> that it started to blow the sand around and it looked like a hurricane
> in there. So I backed the circulating pump off to a slightly lower
> flow model and it looks good to me. I saw no dead spots. Recently,
> in an effort to see if even high flow would help, I put a reasonably
> high powered powerhead in there which really moves the water now. No
> effect on the algae problem or its rapid reformation whatsoever.
>
> I've had this problem for many months and had recharged the sand
> critters within the last 6 months. I take it that since I have gas
> bubbles forming on my sand under the red algae, and that feeding
> doesn't seem to be polluting my tank, that says that the deep sand bed
> is "working" on some manner.
>
> I feed 1-2 times per day and try not to overfeed, although I've heard
> that that's not as likely to be a problem with a DSB tank.
>
> I could throw more $$ at getting an influx of sand critters yet again,
> but I have no clue that it's going to help as it didn't really before.
> I'm finding that the enjoyment of having a reef is rapidly getting
> replaced with the disgust of remove red algae from everything but the
> fish every couple of days. I've heard of the red algae removers, but
> as I understand it, those kill other things and I don't particularly
> want that.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone has a need for
> some red algae, I can let some go real cheap :-).
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>

[skozzy]

I am going through the same problem with a 3 month old tank, tonight we
found out that my lights are the cause, I was told I got 10k bulbs, turns
out they are 6k and 5k with a light spectrum around the yeloow/orange to red
area, the only blue was from the atinic. Over the next few days I will
upgrade the lights to different brand fluros and MH. Currently I have 2x 5k
4foot fluros and 1x 150watt 6to 6.5k MH. I was told when I bought the light
that I have 2x daylight fluros and 1x 10k MH. I was wondering why any
picture taken of the tank had badly washed out colour, when I turn off the
MH the tank colour is almost perfect.

About 1 week ago I turned the MH off and turned over the DSB by hand, one
week on and there is only a very small amount or red/brown alge growing.

So, have a good look into your lighting too.


"Mark" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a 125 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed. That's 4-5" of
> Aragamax sand. I find that I am having horrendous problems with red
> algae covering everything. I did a 50% water change last week and
> already everything's covered again. I can practically set my watch by
> it.
>
> All fish are very healthy (growing noticeably) and the corals (pretty
> much all soft) are as healthy as they can be considering they
> regularly get covered over by a sheet of red algae. The algae that
> forms on the sand normally has a lot of gas bubbles that form under
> them and within a day lifts a sheet of it up to the top of the water
> and it gets pulled to my overflow.
>
> Everytime I test my water parameters, they look very good -- no
> ammonia, undetectable nitrites and nitrates. I find the Ca and
> Alkalinity to be rather strange though. The Alkalinity regularly is
> in the vicinity of 12meq/L while Ca is something like the high 300's.
> As I'd understood it that was not supposed to be possible. I also
> confess that I have not been super-good about adding Ca and buffer
> solutions on any kind of a regular basis.
>
> I've done some looking and the answers I see to the problem of red
> algae in a deep sand bed tank are either a) you need more water flow
> or b) you need to recharge the fauna in the sand. I had a slightly
> more powerful pump in the tank when it was first setup, but I found
> that it started to blow the sand around and it looked like a hurricane
> in there. So I backed the circulating pump off to a slightly lower
> flow model and it looks good to me. I saw no dead spots. Recently,
> in an effort to see if even high flow would help, I put a reasonably
> high powered powerhead in there which really moves the water now. No
> effect on the algae problem or its rapid reformation whatsoever.
>
> I've had this problem for many months and had recharged the sand
> critters within the last 6 months. I take it that since I have gas
> bubbles forming on my sand under the red algae, and that feeding
> doesn't seem to be polluting my tank, that says that the deep sand bed
> is "working" on some manner.
>
> I feed 1-2 times per day and try not to overfeed, although I've heard
> that that's not as likely to be a problem with a DSB tank.
>
> I could throw more $$ at getting an influx of sand critters yet again,
> but I have no clue that it's going to help as it didn't really before.
> I'm finding that the enjoyment of having a reef is rapidly getting
> replaced with the disgust of remove red algae from everything but the
> fish every couple of days. I've heard of the red algae removers, but
> as I understand it, those kill other things and I don't particularly
> want that.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone has a need for
> some red algae, I can let some go real cheap :-).
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

[Tom]

Mark -

First off let me state that my experience as a reefer is NULL...i'm in
the process of setting one up though, and have been doing ENORMOUS
amounts of research. In fact I came across your post whilst doing
research on Aragamax Sand...the reason is because I'm trying to find
out if others are using this substrate at more than 1" depths. The
magazines and websites where this product is sold all state in various
words to not exceed 1" depth. I wanted to know if this was bogus and
I found your posting in that you use it as a deep bed but have the
algal problem you mentioned...just a thought, but maybe this sand
REALLY is bad in more than 1" depth. Hope this helps..hey, at minimum
it is atleast a response.

Tom

[PaulB]

From what I can see it says claims that it can work with as little as 1".
In other words, 1" is a minimum, not maximum.

"Tom" > wrote in message
om...
> Mark -
>
> First off let me state that my experience as a reefer is NULL...i'm in
> the process of setting one up though, and have been doing ENORMOUS
> amounts of research. In fact I came across your post whilst doing
> research on Aragamax Sand...the reason is because I'm trying to find
> out if others are using this substrate at more than 1" depths. The
> magazines and websites where this product is sold all state in various
> words to not exceed 1" depth. I wanted to know if this was bogus and
> I found your posting in that you use it as a deep bed but have the
> algal problem you mentioned...just a thought, but maybe this sand
> REALLY is bad in more than 1" depth. Hope this helps..hey, at minimum
> it is atleast a response.
>
> Tom
>