How do I kill off angle hair

[craig]

What methods work?

I had an overfeeding problem that I believe is in check.

Water temps might be contributing 79F I trying to get down, pumps and
lighting are doing the heating from what I can tell.

1.3 yr tank

Some rocks I can try flipping upside down others have creatures on them
I thought of trying to cover rocks with black plastic using the puddy
that's used to sick rocks together, but to no avail. Thought I could kill
it by denying it light.

suggestions ?

[Marc Levenson]

Read this article:

http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

Marc


craig wrote:

> What methods work?
>
> I had an overfeeding problem that I believe is in check.
>
> Water temps might be contributing 79F I trying to get down, pumps and
> lighting are doing the heating from what I can tell.
>
> 1.3 yr tank
>
> Some rocks I can try flipping upside down others have creatures on them
> I thought of trying to cover rocks with black plastic using the puddy
> that's used to sick rocks together, but to no avail. Thought I could kill
> it by denying it light.
>
> suggestions ?

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[craig]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:32:10 +0000, Marc Levenson wrote:

> Read this article:
>
> http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html
>
> Marc

So far the you're the only one to respond. What's funny is that this is
the very same info I got on a simliar quest 8 or 9 months ago. It's hard
to believe that this is the prevailing method for dealing with angel hair,
pulling it my hand. I've been doing this while working on the water
quality. It's almost impossible getting if off some rocks this way. It can
grow in spots inaccessible to fingers.

The lighting is the next step, but the these lights were setup only last
Oct. I don't think that it's them.

I'm in ND and I can not believe that house hold ambient temps of 62-68f
are effecting the tank temps. It's got to be the two power pumps and the
protein skimmer creating the heat more likly the power pumps. One I just
upgraded to the capcity of the other. I think I have to find some that
promote that they run cool. The heater is now umplugged, although I'm sure
it was not kicking in with where I had it set to. Temps now down to about
77F/76F

I've tried concentrates of food grade calciium hydroxide using a large
hypodermic needle to apply, but only for the most persistant and
inaccessible spots. I'm not comfortable using it but I haven't noticed any
adverse effects.

[Marc Levenson]

If you go to Reefcentral.com, you'll find thousands of posts discussing how to
get rid of GHA.

If you get rid of the source that fuels it, and get rid of the majority of it
by hand, your clean up crew should be able to handle the last of it nicely.

Marc


craig wrote:

> So far the you're the only one to respond. What's funny is that this is
> the very same info I got on a simliar quest 8 or 9 months ago. It's hard
> to believe that this is the prevailing method for dealing with angel hair,
> pulling it my hand. I've been doing this while working on the water
> quality. It's almost impossible getting if off some rocks this way. It can
> grow in spots inaccessible to fingers.
>
> The lighting is the next step, but the these lights were setup only last
> Oct. I don't think that it's them.
>
> I'm in ND and I can not believe that house hold ambient temps of 62-68f
> are effecting the tank temps. It's got to be the two power pumps and the
> protein skimmer creating the heat more likly the power pumps. One I just
> upgraded to the capcity of the other. I think I have to find some that
> promote that they run cool. The heater is now umplugged, although I'm sure
> it was not kicking in with where I had it set to. Temps now down to about
> 77F/76F
>
> I've tried concentrates of food grade calciium hydroxide using a large
> hypodermic needle to apply, but only for the most persistant and
> inaccessible spots. I'm not comfortable using it but I haven't noticed any
> adverse effects.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Richard Reynolds]

> So far the you're the only one to respond. What's funny is that this is
> the very same info I got on a simliar quest 8 or 9 months ago. It's hard
> to believe that this is the prevailing method for dealing with angel hair,
> pulling it my hand. I've been doing this while working on the water
> quality. It's almost impossible getting if off some rocks this way. It can
> grow in spots inaccessible to fingers.

you posted requesting help with hair algae, this question gets asked often, and in the 8
or 9 months you have been battling it the fix has not chnaged!!! you also didnt post the
results of the water tests you should have been doing, or what filters including skimmer
you have running and what media is in each one.

fix the water quality problems and the hair algae will go away on its own in time, removal
by hand helps significantly but you dont have to get it all.




--
Richard Reynolds

[CapFusion]

Craig,
You are not providing any specific or any water parameter except you are
having "Algae" problem. The only information that I notice is your water
temperature and what maybe contributing your heating issue. But again, you
did not provide the temperature that your tank is on. Then you state you
room amber temp [62-68F] but later you indicate you turn down your heater
to77-76F.

So far, I see you have two problem that you indicate but at the same time
provide half information regard the two problem.
1. Algae
2. Heating issue by pump

Next you indicate your have tried "Calium Hydroxide".
I have no comment on this part since I have no idea what is the cause yet to
your original problem.

Maybe you can try this link regarding Algae
http://netclub.athiel.com/cyano/cyanos2.htm

Algae require these few thing to grow or to thrive. Depending on the amount
it get.
Light [bad spectrium from shift from the bulb / lamp]
Nutrient - Either by food / underpower skimmate / dead spot
Overfeeding - Uneating food

And OR
Not enough janitorial cleanup crew [shrimp / crab / snail ..etc..]

Please provide the following:
Water parameter?
What tesk kit or brand?
What type of light fixture and how long you have the bulb / lamp?
What Protein Skimmer you are using and or pump with that PS?
What food you feeding or adding to your tank?
How big is your tank?
What critter you have in your tank?
How long you running your light?
What your mean of water filteration?
What type of water you put into your tank [tap / RO or [DI]]?

You say your tank started about 1.3years or about.
Do you have Live Rock and or Live Sand?
Did you cycle your LR and or LS?

CapFusion,...


"craig" > wrote in message
...
>
> So far the you're the only one to respond. What's funny is that this is
> the very same info I got on a simliar quest 8 or 9 months ago. It's hard
> to believe that this is the prevailing method for dealing with angel hair,
> pulling it my hand. I've been doing this while working on the water
> quality. It's almost impossible getting if off some rocks this way. It can
> grow in spots inaccessible to fingers.
>
> The lighting is the next step, but the these lights were setup only last
> Oct. I don't think that it's them.
>
> I'm in ND and I can not believe that house hold ambient temps of 62-68f
> are effecting the tank temps. It's got to be the two power pumps and the
> protein skimmer creating the heat more likly the power pumps. One I just
> upgraded to the capcity of the other. I think I have to find some that
> promote that they run cool. The heater is now umplugged, although I'm sure
> it was not kicking in with where I had it set to. Temps now down to about
> 77F/76F
>
> I've tried concentrates of food grade calciium hydroxide using a large
> hypodermic needle to apply, but only for the most persistant and
> inaccessible spots. I'm not comfortable using it but I haven't noticed any
> adverse effects.

[craig]

I follow a strict water change every 2 weeks. I use distilled water. I add
Red Sea salt and maintain specific gravity of .023 to .0235 water temps at
78F. I'm trying to find a way to lower the temps know that I realize that
it's not my heater that's maintaining my water temps. This was a surprise
to me. I have two 1200 Maxi-jet pumps a Emperor 400 and SeaClone skimmer.

I havn't had 9 months of this problem. None months ago I had the problem
of Angle agae and took care of it. Two/3 months ago I got a Hawk fish in
addition to a yellow tank and a purple damsel. The Hawk didn't seem to be
able to compete with the other two fish for the food. In my attempts to
make sure he got fed I started getting too much food into the system. Bang
the Angle head took off again.

I've made adjustments in the feeding so that I'm pretty sure the Hawk is
getting enough. I'm back to maybe 3 days before the glass needs wiped
down.

I'd really like to get temps down to 73F or there abouts. I don't like
reducing the water flow in the tank. I'd appreciate recommendations.

The Emperor has two blue filters and one plastic with charcoal in them. I
do note that I use to usually find little shrimp in them when I rinsed
them/changed them. I don't seem them now. I wonder if I've lost some level
of biolgical balance. Or could it be that the Hawk fish has cleaned them
up?

I have a live sand substrata. I use to see the occassional miniscule red
worm but no longer sometimes in the sand.

I check water for nitrates and nitrites. The worst strip testing was maybe
in the range of 40 ( is that ppm ) for nitrates. I've never seen nitrites
becomming an issue. Most of the time nitrates are reading at about 30
(ppm).

I keep a clean skimmer pulling it apart about once every 3-4 months and
getting brushes down into it to clean out any accumulated scum. I say it's
scum it's not green but spots of stuff slowly start to show up. The top
collection cannister gets cleaned about every 3-4 days using a brush.

I've not had much luck trying to keep corals. I had some stag coral that
grew well for about 8 months then a water conditioning crisis were I was
adding coral growth chemicals that I went overboard with. Lost the coral
and havn't ventured back. I think its best if I avoid anything too exotic.

[Dr Drudge]

I can kill off a bowl of angel hair in a few minutes- with some
marinara and parmesean cheese.... :-)

[Richard Reynolds]

before responding to the issues, a few questions

why the low temp
why the low salinity
do you have any LR, if so est how much?


--
Richard Reynolds

[craig]

> before responding to the issues, a few questions
>
> why the low temp
You understand I want a lower temp than 78F Why, because I thought this
would make it less condusive for growing angle hair..no? Then to I don't
like it that I've lost the ability to reduce the temps in the tank to the
lower ranges that I once kept to. When summer comes it will go above
normal, I don't have air conditioning in the house. Although we generally
don't have that many hot days in ND and my house is shaded by trees I do
have a few weeks when temps could not get way out of control that I worry
about
> why the low salinity

I thought .023.5 - .024 was normal.. higher densities for Red Sea
conditions

> do you have any LR, if so est how much?

what is LR.

I forgot to mention that I stuck a small isolation tank inside the
main tank.I put small piece of macro algae in it that I'm trying to
propogate. It's been two weeks and no growth. I isolated so that the tank
and dmasels do eat it up. I havn't been able to get more of it. My
thoughts are that it will consume the phospates that I figured the angle
hair has thrived on. I thought this macro algae would take off but it
hasn't

[Richard Reynolds]

> > why the low temp
> You understand I want a lower temp than 78F Why, because I thought this
> would make it less condusive for growing angle hair..no?

marginally but yes, not the best fix though. when you are talking LOW 80's and high 70's
if you were 85-90 then temp should be the first thing to drop. I wouldnt run any cooler
than 78, I run most of my tanks near 80.

>Then to I don't
> like it that I've lost the ability to reduce the temps in the tank to the
> lower ranges that I once kept to. When summer comes it will go above
> normal, I don't have air conditioning in the house. Although we generally
> don't have that many hot days in ND and my house is shaded by trees I do
> have a few weeks when temps could not get way out of control that I worry
> about

I live in SoCal, I know the drill well.

> > why the low salinity
>
> I thought .023.5 - .024 was normal.. higher densities for Red Sea
> conditions

yes but 1.024 to 1.026 is considered more average for a reef.

>
> > do you have any LR, if so est how much?
> what is LR.

Live Rock

> I forgot to mention that I stuck a small isolation tank inside the
> main tank.I put small piece of macro algae in it that I'm trying to
> propogate. It's been two weeks and no growth. I isolated so that the tank
> and dmasels do eat it up. I havn't been able to get more of it. My
> thoughts are that it will consume the phospates that I figured the angle
> hair has thrived on. I thought this macro algae would take off but it
> hasn't

refugiums dont work over night, and 30ppm nitrate is going to need manual lowering the
algae will help sustain a lower level, but will have to work so much harder to lower the
levels.



mainly I have to ask because I am not there, and I dont know your reasons, and I dont know
your tank. sometimes there are reasons for such things, one preditor tank I run is a warm
temperate tank and is kept much colder than my reefs you didnt say that you had that need.
I also just now realized I dont know how big is your tank???? and do you run bio wheels in
the emperor??
--
Richard Reynolds

[CapFusion]

"craig" > wrote in message
...

> I follow a strict water change every 2 weeks. I use distilled water. I add
> Red Sea salt and maintain specific gravity of .023 to .0235 water temps at
> 78F. I'm trying to find a way to lower the temps know that I realize that
> it's not my heater that's maintaining my water temps. This was a surprise
> to me. I have two 1200 Maxi-jet pumps a Emperor 400 and SeaClone skimmer.
>

This is correct > .023 - .0235?


> I'd really like to get temps down to 73F or there abouts. I don't like
> reducing the water flow in the tank. I'd appreciate recommendations.
>

Is there specific reason why you want your tank temperature to be 73F?
I would say this kind low.


> The Emperor has two blue filters and one plastic with charcoal in them. I
> do note that I use to usually find little shrimp in them when I rinsed
> them/changed them. I don't seem them now. I wonder if I've lost some level
> of biolgical balance. Or could it be that the Hawk fish has cleaned them
> up?

You do not need charcoal or active carbon in SW tank. Unless you want to
remove chemical.


> I have a live sand substrata. I use to see the occassional miniscule red
> worm but no longer sometimes in the sand.

What substrate do you have?
Do you have like a gravel or big size pebble?


> I keep a clean skimmer pulling it apart about once every 3-4 months and
> getting brushes down into it to clean out any accumulated scum. I say it's
> scum it's not green but spots of stuff slowly start to show up. The top
> collection cannister gets cleaned about every 3-4 days using a brush.

Not scum? What color does it look like? Is it making foam? Does it smell?


> I've not had much luck trying to keep corals. I had some stag coral that
> grew well for about 8 months then a water conditioning crisis were I was
> adding coral growth chemicals that I went overboard with. Lost the coral
> and havn't ventured back. I think its best if I avoid anything too exotic.

I would avoid those for now. You need to get your water parameter in better
condition or atleast stable first.
Get a good hold on how your tank run. When your tank mature and stable, then
get the coral that maybe support in your tank condition.

CapFusion,...

[craig]

> I run most of my tanks near 80.
hum, guess I'm ok for now

> yes but 1.024 to 1.026 is considered more average for a reef.
I've been in these ranges but only when I was caught off guard
> Live Rock
Yes about 35 lbs by rought calculation, it's what the angle hair is fixing
itself to. I had it building on the pumps. I took them out and cleaned
them about 3 weeks ago. Funny I thought it grow right back up on them,but
it hasn't, Only now am I see the beginning of some purple algae start to
take hold.
>> I forgot to mention that I stuck a small isolation tank inside
the main
> refugiums dont work over night, and 30ppm nitrate is going to need
> manual lowering the algae will help sustain a lower level, but will have
> to work so much harder to lower the levels.
The angle is maybe slowing in its growth rate. I did a run though today
picking if off. I used the calcuim hydroxide again too. It lays down and
covers the algae. I started placing my snails on the rocks picking them
off the glass to keep them concentrated on the LR I can suck the calcium
hydroxide off the rock using a meat baister. I'm keeping close eye on
things with this stuff. So far I havn't seen any adverse effects.

> just now realized I dont know how big is your tank???? and do you run
45 gallon
> bio wheels in the emperor??
yes, By your comment am I to gather some system to use them.
I have a Coralife florencent light with fans built in. 36"'s two bulbs one
atinic. Daylight cycle 6am to 8pm atinic; 9am to 6 pm with the daylight
bulb. no moon light.

Sand bottom
I have two rock piles One sits on sand the other doesn't (accept from some
that has migrated in. This one is about 2/3's bigger than the other pile
sitting on the sand.

I had tried growing turtle grass, but my emeral crabs which have since
passed on ate it up. This the reason I have sand. I have tried goby (court
jester) but I think my brittle star got it. I have to bittle stars that
came in a cleaning kit that I started up the tank with. They just keep
getting bigger and bigger? The emerals came with the kit to. Last one died
about 2 months ago.

I tired 1st to have a school of 5 purple damsels. One, the one I have
left, was such a boss. With in 2 or 3 weeks I was down to 2 and I had to
put a divider in the tank. Then I started to rock piles from the one. I
was starting to get the two to work out an arrangement when one day I
found the abused one on the floor dead. It's been tough finding other fish
that can stand up to this purple damsel. He had a go at the yellow tang,
but now they are equals. He harassed to dwarf angles I tried to death.
This purple has a cave he protects. When he's excited he shows lateral
strips. He marks his cave walls When I had two they created patches of
slime on the rocks and the walls of the tank. I think they were trying to
spawn. The Hawk fish ignors him.

[Richard Reynolds]

> > I run most of my tanks near 80.
> hum, guess I'm ok for now

yea leave it. the tropical ocean is a nice and warm place:D

> > yes but 1.024 to 1.026 is considered more average for a reef.
> I've been in these ranges but only when I was caught off guard

next time keep it there.

> > Live Rock
> Yes about 35 lbs by rought calculation,

good start double it :D


ok not really

> The angle is maybe slowing in its growth rate. I did a run though today
> picking if off. I used the calcuim hydroxide again too. It lays down and
> covers the algae.

good!, If you can get that algae and its container out of the main tank, you can use a
red and blue grow light over it, it will do better. if you add that red/blue grow light to
your main tank you will be feeding both the algae you want and the algae you dont.

> > just now realized I dont know how big is your tank???? and do you run
> 45 gallon

ok

> > bio wheels in the emperor??
> yes, By your comment am I to gather some system to use them.

yea you would be good to remove them, BUT DONT DO IT ALL AT ONCE I would take 1 out of the
filter and stick it into the tank, wait a few days check ammonia/nitrite when you have 0
take the other out of the filter stick it into the tank, wait a few days test
ammonia/nitrite, when you have 0 remove 1 from the tank, then a few days later pull out
the last one.

you have enought LR that you dont need more bio filtration.

then get started on daily water changes change as much as you can up to aprox 50% every
day check nitrates before the water change and stop when the nitrates fall below 5ppm. the
further your nitrates go down the better.
> I have a Coralife florencent light with fans built in. 36"'s two bulbs one
> atinic. Daylight cycle 6am to 8pm atinic; 9am to 6 pm with the daylight
> bulb. no moon light.

kool

> Sand bottom
> I have two rock piles One sits on sand the other doesn't (accept from some
> that has migrated in. This one is about 2/3's bigger than the other pile
> sitting on the sand.

kool also

> The Hawk fish ignors him.

which hawk fish ??


--
Richard Reynolds

[craig]

> which hawk fish ??

redspotted hawk. He can pivot his eyes slightly. He's like a lizard with
fins. It's like he's on the evolutionary path to becoming a amphibian.

I don't have a refugium. I have a plexglass tank with suction cups that I
inserted into the main tank. I used it to isolate the macro algae from the
fish so that they didn't eat it up. It appears though that they are
leaving it alone. I guess thinking back it was the emeral crabs that mowed
down my macro algae.

I removed the inside refugium. The macro algae kept floating up and
excaping into the main tank

I like the idea of a these hang0on refugiums,
but I don't think I have the room on the back of my tank with Emperor and
Skimmer. Do you suppose I could go as far as remove the Emperor and
replace it with one of these. The literature I have shows a system with
this style refugim being the only filtration.

[Richard Reynolds]

> redspotted hawk. He can pivot his eyes slightly. He's like a lizard with
> fins. It's like he's on the evolutionary path to becoming a amphibian.

he will eat much !!! :D and will probibly leave the damsel alone.

> I don't have a refugium. I have a plexglass tank with suction cups that I
> inserted into the main tank. I used it to isolate the macro algae from the
> fish so that they didn't eat it up. It appears though that they are
> leaving it alone. I guess thinking back it was the emeral crabs that mowed
> down my macro algae.

congradulations while probibly a bit cheasy thats a refugium. they sell internal refugiums
pre built with pumps and everything somewhere :D


> I removed the inside refugium. The macro algae kept floating up and
> excaping into the main tank

yea if you were to keep that setup you would want to drill the box for water input/output.

> I like the idea of a these hang0on refugiums,
> but I don't think I have the room on the back of my tank with Emperor and
> Skimmer. Do you suppose I could go as far as remove the Emperor and
> replace it with one of these. The literature I have shows a system with
> this style refugim being the only filtration.


the LR is your filter feel free to expand with a HOB refugium and put the emperor on a FW
tank but replace the water movement with another powerhead. you will still need to do
masive waterchanges in order to get nitrates down, once they are down your LR will do most
of the filtration, and the HOB refugium will take up some of whats left.


--
Richard Reynolds