Poached Marine Tank.

[Richard Periut]

Hi All,

Last night I fed the very hungry fish, and after a couple of hours, shut
the lights off.

This morning was horror! Tang, damsel, goby dead. 75% of cleaner crew
dead. Couple of crabs out of their rocks (still seem shocked), and a
whole bunch of very tiny shrimp and stars, that apparently inhabited
the live rock, floating around.

At first I thought poisoning from my wife using Pledge (wood cleaner.)
But she is careful in using it, and it's usually away from the tank.
Plus, she's used it before without a problem. I thought of other things...

Then, when I realize it's time to get over it and remove the dead marine
life, I realize the water is rather warm. The thermometer was reading 95
F. The heater was on, despite it being set for 75.

So, I take care of my fish by using RO/DI water, measure parameters
frequently, change the MH bulbs every 6 months, et cetera; and a friggin
heater goes haywire on me and poaches the fish.

OK, my corals don't seem to be opening, so I assume they are toast as
well. My questions are:

Is heater malfunction like this a common thing? I'm sure they must sell
alarms et cetera to warn regarding high temp.

I'm measuring the ammonia et cetera very closely, but so far zero.
Should I expect an ammonia/nitrate/nitrite spike within the next days? I
imagine from all the dead marine life I haven't been able to take out,
some spike may occur?

Is my dead rock/sand toast? Or should I just wait it out, make some
water changes, then after a week or so, add a damsel and see what
happens, providing parameters are good?

I still can't believe this happened to me.

Suffice it to say that I was so shocked, that I couldn't even think
straight at work today. Thank God I didn't have expensive stock in a
very large tank; my tank is only 29 gallons.

TIA,

Rich
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

[Brittle Bart]

Wow. That's too bad. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I bet a troll broke
into your home and jinxed you.


"Richard Periut" > wrote in message
...
Hi All,

Last night I fed the very hungry fish, and after a couple of hours, shut
the lights off.

This morning was horror! Tang, damsel, goby dead. 75% of cleaner crew
dead. Couple of crabs out of their rocks (still seem shocked), and a
whole bunch of very tiny shrimp and stars, that apparently inhabited
the live rock, floating around.

At first I thought poisoning from my wife using Pledge (wood cleaner.)
But she is careful in using it, and it's usually away from the tank.
Plus, she's used it before without a problem. I thought of other things...

Then, when I realize it's time to get over it and remove the dead marine
life, I realize the water is rather warm. The thermometer was reading 95
F. The heater was on, despite it being set for 75.

So, I take care of my fish by using RO/DI water, measure parameters
frequently, change the MH bulbs every 6 months, et cetera; and a friggin
heater goes haywire on me and poaches the fish.

OK, my corals don't seem to be opening, so I assume they are toast as
well. My questions are:

Is heater malfunction like this a common thing? I'm sure they must sell
alarms et cetera to warn regarding high temp.

I'm measuring the ammonia et cetera very closely, but so far zero.
Should I expect an ammonia/nitrate/nitrite spike within the next days? I
imagine from all the dead marine life I haven't been able to take out,
some spike may occur?

Is my dead rock/sand toast? Or should I just wait it out, make some
water changes, then after a week or so, add a damsel and see what
happens, providing parameters are good?

I still can't believe this happened to me.

Suffice it to say that I was so shocked, that I couldn't even think
straight at work today. Thank God I didn't have expensive stock in a
very large tank; my tank is only 29 gallons.

TIA,

Rich
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

[Dinky]

"Richard Periut" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm measuring the ammonia et cetera very closely, but so far zero.
> Should I expect an ammonia/nitrate/nitrite spike within the next days? I
> imagine from all the dead marine life I haven't been able to take out,
> some spike may occur?
>


I would expect an ammonia spike. Personally, I'd wait it out, and monitor
the parms and see if the LR recycles the tank. If it does, then you can
begin restocking.

[Marc Levenson]

Can heaters stick in the ON position and cause a failure? Yes! Is it common?
Not so much, but it does happen and I see posts about it on RC every so often.

Regarding alarms, there are alarms like the Big Temp thermometer. It allows you
to see a low point and a high point, and if it ever swings out of range it will
make noise. Others opt to buy expensive controllers, and have it control their
heaters, lights, chiller etc.... just to protect their livestock and their
investment.

I watch my tanks very closely, and if you've read my personal log from this week
you'll see my heater was (possibly) adding to some unusual heat issues my 55g
was developing.

The other risk is when the glass heater breaks, it can cause some disastrous
results. I've read a few guys that have sworn off glass and switched to
titanium.

One more option that is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go is to figure
out exactly how much wattage you need to heat your tank's water volume. Divide
that by half, and buy two heaters at the half wattage (or have both heaters add
up to the total needed wattage). That way, if a heater fails and sticks on, it
doesn't have the strength to cook your tank. And if one breaks, the other one
is still there to attempt to keep your tank warm enough until you notice.

I'm truly sorry to hear your bad news.

I'd keep testing your water for the next week, and perhaps plan for a water
change next weekend. Your LR will probably rebound, and perhaps some livestock
will survive. 95F is really hot, so I don't want to get your hopes up.

Marc


Richard Periut wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Last night I fed the very hungry fish, and after a couple of hours, shut
> the lights off.
>
> This morning was horror! Tang, damsel, goby dead. 75% of cleaner crew
> dead. Couple of crabs out of their rocks (still seem shocked), and a
> whole bunch of very tiny shrimp and stars, that apparently inhabited
> the live rock, floating around.
>
> At first I thought poisoning from my wife using Pledge (wood cleaner.)
> But she is careful in using it, and it's usually away from the tank.
> Plus, she's used it before without a problem. I thought of other things...
>
> Then, when I realize it's time to get over it and remove the dead marine
> life, I realize the water is rather warm. The thermometer was reading 95
> F. The heater was on, despite it being set for 75.
>
> So, I take care of my fish by using RO/DI water, measure parameters
> frequently, change the MH bulbs every 6 months, et cetera; and a friggin
> heater goes haywire on me and poaches the fish.
>
> OK, my corals don't seem to be opening, so I assume they are toast as
> well. My questions are:
>
> Is heater malfunction like this a common thing? I'm sure they must sell
> alarms et cetera to warn regarding high temp.
>
> I'm measuring the ammonia et cetera very closely, but so far zero.
> Should I expect an ammonia/nitrate/nitrite spike within the next days? I
> imagine from all the dead marine life I haven't been able to take out,
> some spike may occur?
>
> Is my dead rock/sand toast? Or should I just wait it out, make some
> water changes, then after a week or so, add a damsel and see what
> happens, providing parameters are good?
>
> I still can't believe this happened to me.
>
> Suffice it to say that I was so shocked, that I couldn't even think
> straight at work today. Thank God I didn't have expensive stock in a
> very large tank; my tank is only 29 gallons.
>
> TIA,
>
> Rich
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Nick]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Can heaters stick in the ON position and cause a failure? Yes! Is it
common?
> Not so much, but it does happen and I see posts about it on RC every so
often.
>
> Regarding alarms, there are alarms like the Big Temp thermometer. It
allows you
> to see a low point and a high point, and if it ever swings out of range it
will
> make noise. Others opt to buy expensive controllers, and have it control
their
> heaters, lights, chiller etc.... just to protect their livestock and their
> investment.
>
> I watch my tanks very closely, and if you've read my personal log from
this week
> you'll see my heater was (possibly) adding to some unusual heat issues my
55g
> was developing.
>
> The other risk is when the glass heater breaks, it can cause some
disastrous
> results. I've read a few guys that have sworn off glass and switched to
> titanium.
>
> One more option that is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go is to
figure
> out exactly how much wattage you need to heat your tank's water volume.
Divide
> that by half, and buy two heaters at the half wattage (or have both
heaters add
> up to the total needed wattage). That way, if a heater fails and sticks
on, it
> doesn't have the strength to cook your tank. And if one breaks, the
other one
> is still there to attempt to keep your tank warm enough until you notice.
>
> I'm truly sorry to hear your bad news.
>
> I'd keep testing your water for the next week, and perhaps plan for a
water
> change next weekend. Your LR will probably rebound, and perhaps some
livestock
> will survive. 95F is really hot, so I don't want to get your hopes up.
>
> Marc
>
>
> Richard Periut wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Last night I fed the very hungry fish, and after a couple of hours, shut
> > the lights off.
> >
> > This morning was horror! Tang, damsel, goby dead. 75% of cleaner crew
> > dead. Couple of crabs out of their rocks (still seem shocked), and a
> > whole bunch of very tiny shrimp and stars, that apparently inhabited
> > the live rock, floating around.
> >
> > At first I thought poisoning from my wife using Pledge (wood cleaner.)
> > But she is careful in using it, and it's usually away from the tank.
> > Plus, she's used it before without a problem. I thought of other
things...
> >
> > Then, when I realize it's time to get over it and remove the dead marine
> > life, I realize the water is rather warm. The thermometer was reading 95
> > F. The heater was on, despite it being set for 75.
> >
> > So, I take care of my fish by using RO/DI water, measure parameters
> > frequently, change the MH bulbs every 6 months, et cetera; and a friggin
> > heater goes haywire on me and poaches the fish.
> >
> > OK, my corals don't seem to be opening, so I assume they are toast as
> > well. My questions are:
> >
> > Is heater malfunction like this a common thing? I'm sure they must sell
> > alarms et cetera to warn regarding high temp.
> >
> > I'm measuring the ammonia et cetera very closely, but so far zero.
> > Should I expect an ammonia/nitrate/nitrite spike within the next days? I
> > imagine from all the dead marine life I haven't been able to take out,
> > some spike may occur?
> >
> > Is my dead rock/sand toast? Or should I just wait it out, make some
> > water changes, then after a week or so, add a damsel and see what
> > happens, providing parameters are good?
> >
> > I still can't believe this happened to me.
> >
> > Suffice it to say that I was so shocked, that I couldn't even think
> > straight at work today. Thank God I didn't have expensive stock in a
> > very large tank; my tank is only 29 gallons.
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Rich
> > --
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>
My Condolences,
I use two small heaters that individually are not powerful enough to raise
the temp to a dangerous level,
then if one sticks its no so bad.
Nick.

[Richard Periut]

I would like to thank all the people that answered my questions. For the
sake of accumulating experience for others, I'll keep the group posted.

Regards,

Rich
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.

[Timothy Tom]

Since I have so much time money and effort invested in my reef tank, I
have tried to design a control system that has a back-up, or alarm if
the primary system fails. For example with the heating system I have
two separate heaters. This helps prevent a too cold tank if one
heater fails (has occured). Each are switched on and off by my
aquacontroller. Additionally each heaters individual thermostat
control is set so that even if the aquacontroller stays in the on
position in error, the built-in heater control will switch off when it
reaches a little above where the aquacontroller is programmed to shut
off (not happened yet). The aquacontroller has an alarm system to go
off in the temp goes too low (occured when I only had one heater in
tank, and got a cold streak). I have a chiller which is not
controlled by the aquacontroller, but by its own internal thermostat
If the chillers therostat malfaunctions and the chiller stays on by
error, the aquacontroller is set to turn off the pump supplying water
to the chiller( not happened yet). If the chiller fails, and the temp
goes too high, the aquacontroller will alarm, and the aquarium
lighting will shut down in sequence as the temperature rises(has
happened prior to installing chiller in tank) . Additionally there is
an independent thermostat controlled fan in the hood. Granted all
these gadgets are not cheap, however after over 2 1/2 years, I have
not had any significant problems with the tank, and I have some degree
of comfort knowing that the system will manage the great majority of
problems in temperature.

[Kevin & Donna Sanders, M.D.]

I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat heater .
That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of the
bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on ) position.
Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1 degree

[Richard Reynolds]

> I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat heater .
> That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of the
> bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on ) position.
> Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1 degree

I like the pro heat heaters, and would second that recomendation

BUT, isnt there always one of these

I have several models and most even though the temp is very stable, the built in temp
probe is way off, to the extreme one of mine is telling me the water is 100F its not, its
a nice 82. but it always thinks its 100F so watch it when setting them up it wont take
long to figure out the bad calibration and compensate for it.



--
Richard Reynolds

[Kevin & Donna Sanders, M.D.]

Maybe you can pop the knob off and put it back in the correct position if
you want.
My only criticism is the knob can get knocked easily and change the temp so
I have a temp alarm as well




"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:qcd3c.14496$PY.13439@lakeread05...
> > I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat heater
..
> > That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of the
> > bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on )
position.
> > Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1 degree
>
> I like the pro heat heaters, and would second that recomendation
>
> BUT, isnt there always one of these
>
> I have several models and most even though the temp is very stable, the
built in temp
> probe is way off, to the extreme one of mine is telling me the water is
100F its not, its
> a nice 82. but it always thinks its 100F so watch it when setting them up
it wont take
> long to figure out the bad calibration and compensate for it.
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>

[PaulB]

Mine is only a fraction of a degree off. I have the Pro Heat II w/digital
readout. I also have a temp probe with an alarm that will sound if the temp
gets out of the set range.

One problem with the Pro heat heaters is the separate temp probe is held in
the tank by a suction cup. If it pulls out of the tank it will sense air
temp and cause the same problem as stuck heater. The temp alarm saved my
tank from this once, although I now have the cord for the probe pinned under
the canopy so it can't pull or fall out of the tank.
..


"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:qcd3c.14496$PY.13439@lakeread05...
> > I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat heater
..
> > That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of the
> > bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on )
position.
> > Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1 degree
>
> I like the pro heat heaters, and would second that recomendation
>
> BUT, isnt there always one of these
>
> I have several models and most even though the temp is very stable, the
built in temp
> probe is way off, to the extreme one of mine is telling me the water is
100F its not, its
> a nice 82. but it always thinks its 100F so watch it when setting them up
it wont take
> long to figure out the bad calibration and compensate for it.
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>
>

[Simon O'Keeffe]

I'm currently wiring a thermostat into some largish fans (84watt
centrifugal fans)
These are hooking up to a cooling tower which is basicly just glass
plates an inch or so(25mm for rest of world) appart that water flows
through in one direction and air flows past in the other.
I'll know when the tank is getting warm as the fans will be running.
I'll set this at just a few degrees above the heater temp of about
27degrees C.
I believe in the long run this is almost a must, especially here in
Australia where temps can reach into the 40s C in summer which for you
nonscientific Americans is 105 + F.
I still can;t believe you Americans stick with farenheight (sp?) and
Miles and Gallons, Man talk about the dark ages of units measure, catch
up with the rest of the world.
It's no wonder that you guys struggle with calcs, base 12 is a joke and
base 16 is even worse.
No offence meant to individuals, but sheesh I gotta say something or
nothing will get done LOL.
Have a nice weekend all, I'm making tanks, starfire glass and silicon
for me this weekend yeah!
Does it get any better than this?
Simon

Richard Reynolds wrote:

>>I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat heater .
>>That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of the
>>bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on ) position.
>>Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1 degree
>>
>>
>
>I like the pro heat heaters, and would second that recomendation
>
>BUT, isnt there always one of these
>
>I have several models and most even though the temp is very stable, the built in temp
>probe is way off, to the extreme one of mine is telling me the water is 100F its not, its
>a nice 82. but it always thinks its 100F so watch it when setting them up it wont take
>long to figure out the bad calibration and compensate for it.
>
>
>
>
>

[Eric]

Americans and English units... I absolutely agree. The US was once
going to switch over. There's a group of people, around age 32-34 right
now, most of whom grew up without learning English units at all in
school, at least if their schools followed the recomended teaching
guidelines. I'm one of those people. I constantly have to ask my wife
how to convert between various English units, and have no problem at all
with metric units. I'm equally comfortable with distance and
temperature measurements in English or Metric. I really wish the US had
switched. (The only legacy of this planned switch is that you can still
see the occasional sign on highways giving the distance to the next
major city in metric.)

Eric

Simon O'Keeffe wrote:
> I'm currently wiring a thermostat into some largish fans (84watt
> centrifugal fans)
> These are hooking up to a cooling tower which is basicly just glass
> plates an inch or so(25mm for rest of world) appart that water flows
> through in one direction and air flows past in the other.
> I'll know when the tank is getting warm as the fans will be running.
> I'll set this at just a few degrees above the heater temp of about
> 27degrees C.
> I believe in the long run this is almost a must, especially here in
> Australia where temps can reach into the 40s C in summer which for you
> nonscientific Americans is 105 + F.
> I still can;t believe you Americans stick with farenheight (sp?) and
> Miles and Gallons, Man talk about the dark ages of units measure, catch
> up with the rest of the world.
> It's no wonder that you guys struggle with calcs, base 12 is a joke and
> base 16 is even worse.
> No offence meant to individuals, but sheesh I gotta say something or
> nothing will get done LOL.
> Have a nice weekend all, I'm making tanks, starfire glass and silicon
> for me this weekend yeah!
> Does it get any better than this?
> Simon
>
> Richard Reynolds wrote:
>
>>> I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat
>>> heater .
>>> That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of the
>>> bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on )
>>> position.
>>> Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1 degree
>>>
>>
>>
>> I like the pro heat heaters, and would second that recomendation
>>
>> BUT, isnt there always one of these
>>
>> I have several models and most even though the temp is very stable,
>> the built in temp
>> probe is way off, to the extreme one of mine is telling me the water
>> is 100F its not, its
>> a nice 82. but it always thinks its 100F so watch it when setting
>> them up it wont take
>> long to figure out the bad calibration and compensate for it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Kevin & Donna Sanders, M.D.]

Good point I've never had it come all the way out but I'll connect it to a
power head cord with a plastic cable tie to avoid a disaster


"PaulB" > wrote in message
. com...
> Mine is only a fraction of a degree off. I have the Pro Heat II w/digital
> readout. I also have a temp probe with an alarm that will sound if the
temp
> gets out of the set range.
>
> One problem with the Pro heat heaters is the separate temp probe is held
in
> the tank by a suction cup. If it pulls out of the tank it will sense air
> temp and cause the same problem as stuck heater. The temp alarm saved my
> tank from this once, although I now have the cord for the probe pinned
under
> the canopy so it can't pull or fall out of the tank.
> .
>
>
> "Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
> news:qcd3c.14496$PY.13439@lakeread05...
> > > I would recommend an electronic heater control like the Pro Heat
heater
> .
> > > That has worked well for me for several years. I've had a couple of
the
> > > bi-metallic thermostat heaters arc and fuse in the closed (on )
> position.
> > > Plus the electronic heaters are much more consistent +/- 0.5-1
degree
> >
> > I like the pro heat heaters, and would second that recomendation
> >
> > BUT, isnt there always one of these
> >
> > I have several models and most even though the temp is very stable, the
> built in temp
> > probe is way off, to the extreme one of mine is telling me the water is
> 100F its not, its
> > a nice 82. but it always thinks its 100F so watch it when setting them
up
> it wont take
> > long to figure out the bad calibration and compensate for it.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Richard Reynolds
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>