Howdy! New Guy with Setup Questions

[MicahK]

Hi Everyone!

New guy on the block!

_CURRENT_SETUP_
Tank = 55g
Lights = 2 Eclipse Natural Daylight F15T8's
Sump = (still to be built) ~30-35gal mag 5 return
circulation = 2 170gph powerheads
heaters = 2 150 watt
protein skimmer = Visi PS100
subtrate = DSB(still deciding content.)

The only decoration is a large(about 20 pounds) dead coral from my
wifes old salt tank.(has been bleaching in the sun for the last 3
years)

I'm setting up my first salt tank. And budget is a big issue. I have
used up most of my startup budget and have to make some hard choices. I
have a steady budget for future upgrades and new family members.

Starting setup will be FO with a final goal of full reef. Also any
obvious problems with the above setup...I know I will need much more
light before I do corals and inverts.


Sand for DSB. I can afford one of the following...which do you
recommend?

1) Start now with 60 pounds of aragonite sugar and 40 pounds of live
sand.(only about 3 inches deep will have to add more later)

2) Start now with 50 pounds phosphate free play sand(washed) and 60
pounds aragonite sugar and 40 pounds live sand. (deep enough for DSB
but if this route should I mix the sands all together or layer them.)

3) Start now with 60 pounds of aragonite and 20 pounds of live
rock.(only about 1.5 inches deep and can add some later.) no live sand.


Will the critters in the live rock eventually turn the sand into live
sand?

Also are these off the shelf live sand bags worth it?(one was a water
filled sand bag by bio-life) Seems to me that is an awful small closed
environment for live critters to live in for long or do enough usually
survive to be a good seed base?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Micah


--
MicahK
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[Steve Sells]

read replys: *** topic by topic. ***

Steve

"MicahK" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> New guy on the block!
>
> _CURRENT_SETUP_
> Tank = 55g
> Lights = 2 Eclipse Natural Daylight F15T8's
> Sump = (still to be built) ~30-35gal mag 5 return
> circulation = 2 170gph powerheads
> heaters = 2 150 watt

*** why so much? I have 100 for my 55, its fine. ***

> protein skimmer = Visi PS100
> subtrate = DSB(still deciding content.)
>
<snip>
>
> Sand for DSB. I can afford one of the following...which do you
> recommend?

I used 1 10 pound bag of the Live Sand in the bag (for the denitrating
bacteria NOT visable critters) place that into 2 piles on bottom of tank
the cover with aragonite, I mixed in some crushed shells for texture, and
it held down the DSB long enough for tit to stay there on its own.

<snip>
> Will the critters in the live rock eventually turn the sand into live
> sand?

the only critters you wioll get are the existing rock dwelling stuff. you
can seed your DSB from another tank, even from the LFS and get a cup or 2
of existing sand/gravel from a Life Rick Curing tank would give it a boost,
place the cup in ONE pile . like you did with the bagged live sand, if you
do spread these out you will be sorry. the sand will crush and kill the
critters in it, ( think: sand-blasting in slow motion) and the bio active
denitrators wil be exposed to more air, killing them off ( the de-nitrators
are anarobic remember)

>
> Also are these off the shelf live sand bags worth it?(one was a water
> filled sand bag by bio-life) Seems to me that is an awful small closed
> environment for live critters to live in for long or do enough usually
> survive to be a good seed base?

the only live critters in that bag are the denitrators amd various other
bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle. but the denitrators is why I got
it.

>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
> Micah
>
>

[MicahK]

Steve


> heaters = 2 150 watt

*** why so much? I have 100 for my 55, its fine. ***

hehe couple reasons. I'm a redundancy advocate hence 2 heaters(one is
set a half degree cooler than the other. in case of failure.)
My wife likes the house VERY cold so made sure the combined value would
be above the recommended 5 watts per gallon. (it's 65 degrees in here
right now.)


And thanks for the info on the Live Sand! I will try to get some from a
couple different sources.

Thanks,
Micah


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MicahK
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[CURTIS HOOD]

if ya get live rock , you would not need the live sand


get some damsels and go with it for a mounth :D :D


--
CURTIS HOOD

HI SALENITY
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[Rod]

>Will the critters in the live rock eventually turn the sand into live
>sand?
>

Somewhat,,, but not as well as it should be.. IMHO the people that are getting
rid of their DSB are the people that did not seed their beds properly with
(real, not bagged) live sand....

>Also are these off the shelf live sand bags worth it?(one was a water
>filled sand bag by bio-life) Seems to me that is an awful small closed
>environment for live critters to live in for long or do enough usually
>survive to be a good seed base?

Save your money.. the bagged arragonite will be just as "alive " as that bagged
"live" stuff within 3 weeks time. I think the bagged "live sand " has ruined
the term "live sand"

Start with all dead sugar sized arragonite, and seed with live sand from a
GOOD reef store, or from trading with club members
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[MicahK]

Hey all,
Thanks for all the information. I have got the tank setup and filling
with water now.(my filter is a little slow....must remember to filter
some water ahead of time for emergencies...)

Anyway, It turns out the LFS was having a sale on aragonite sugar sand.
I was able to get 90 pounds instead...(I bought all they had.)

I'm going to stabilized the S.G., temp and ph before actually getting
the rock. Then I will put it right in for the cycle period. I will get
20 pounds of REAL live sand in about 2 weeks to help finish off the
cycle and seed the rest of the bed. Then get some critters from other
sources such as garf to add variety.

If there is anything wrong with this let me know.. :)

Thanks this has helped a lot!


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[Steve Sells]

forget adding the damsels, you will NOT get them back out if you put them in
there.

IF YOU DO want them. add them after the other fish are adjusted, damsels
are very hard to add other fish to later.

Steve

[Richard Reynolds]

> forget adding the damsels, you will NOT get them back out if you put them in
> there.

thats SOOO not true you just need to get a big trigger(try a queen or undulated or clown)
to get them out :D


ok in case someone who is looking for advice reads this big triggers are not generally
considered reef safe and the 3 i chose are the extreme of that!


--
Richard Reynolds

[Rod]

>I will get
>20 pounds of REAL live sand in about 2 weeks to help finish off the
>cycle and seed the rest of the bed

If you are talkning about the bagged "live sand that sits on the shelve at the
LFS.. dont bother, your 90 lbs will be just as alive as the bagged stuff within
th e2-3 weeks that you are planning on.. save your cash for better things..Good
Luck


Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Steve Sells]

lol I forgot about that option :), or the Moray Ell option...

Steve


"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:bHa5c.2967$F91.684@lakeread05...
> > forget adding the damsels, you will NOT get them back out if you put
them in
> > there.
>
> thats SOOO not true you just need to get a big trigger(try a queen or
undulated or clown)
> to get them out :D
>
>
> ok in case someone who is looking for advice reads this big triggers are
not generally
> considered reef safe and the 3 i chose are the extreme of that!
>
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>
>
>
>

[PaulB]

Actually, there are some creatures in good live sand that are not found in
live rock. The live sand may not be strictly necessary, but it is needed
for maximum diversity. The sand will also become inoculated more quickly
with some live sand.


"CURTIS HOOD" > wrote in message
...
>
> if ya get live rock , you would not need the live sand
>
>
> get some damsels and go with it for a mounth :D :D
>
>
> --
> CURTIS HOOD
>
> HI SALENITY
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