How do I SET UP an RO/DI Unit

[Robin]

Been thinking about installing one so top off is much easier. Where would
the waste water come out to? I have one under my sink for drinking water
and have installed it with no problem but is there someone out there with a
website or even a simple diagram to show me how to "PLUMB" this into my
existing setup? Here is my current set up.

80G Reef
150lbs of LR
6-7 in of DSB
20G Sump w overflow (using just a filter sock in the sump)
EuroReef Skimmer in the sump (also have a Prizm hang on for redundancy)
Return pump is a GEN X Pump inline with a 1/3 HP Custom Sealife Chiller
150W Heater
2 175W 12K MH and 2 96W 50/50 PCs
A couple of PH in the tank for circulation

Thanks in advance for any help.

Robin

[Marc Levenson]

Robin,

Setting up an auto-top off system is pretty simple. You just need a container
full of RO/DI water near your sump. If you want to add water via gravity, you
put that container on a stand. Water drains through a line from the container
to a float valve that is mounted in your sump.

When the water evaporates, the float valve drops. Water trickles in until the
float valve lifts up and seals the line. This is a very simple system that
works very well and prevents too much water being added all at once.

Another method is with a float switch, a relay, and a powerhead. That is more
involved, but I did explain that in another post last night. (Actually, I
didn't explain the relay part of it.)

Running your water directly from the RO/DI unit is just begging for trouble for
a couple of reasons, so I don't recommend doing that ever.

Marc




Robin wrote:

> Been thinking about installing one so top off is much easier. Where would
> the waste water come out to? I have one under my sink for drinking water
> and have installed it with no problem but is there someone out there with a
> website or even a simple diagram to show me how to "PLUMB" this into my
> existing setup? Here is my current set up.
>
> 80G Reef
> 150lbs of LR
> 6-7 in of DSB
> 20G Sump w overflow (using just a filter sock in the sump)
> EuroReef Skimmer in the sump (also have a Prizm hang on for redundancy)
> Return pump is a GEN X Pump inline with a 1/3 HP Custom Sealife Chiller
> 150W Heater
> 2 175W 12K MH and 2 96W 50/50 PCs
> A couple of PH in the tank for circulation
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Robin

--
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Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

Btw, if you are using a Euroreef, pull of the Prizm. It is absolutely not
needed and only adds one more electrical item / heat.

Marc


Robin wrote:

>
> EuroReef Skimmer in the sump (also have a Prizm hang on for redundancy)
> Return pump is a GEN X Pump inline with a 1/3 HP Custom Sealife Chiller
> 150W Heater
> 2 175W 12K MH and 2 96W 50/50 PCs
> A couple of PH in the tank for circulation
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Robin

--
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[Rod]

What happens when the float valve becomes encrusted with Calcium build up and
the float sticks.. How much freshwater keep trickling into the sump?

>
>When the water evaporates, the float valve drops. Water trickles in until
>the
>float valve lifts up and seals the line. This is a very simple system that
>works very well and prevents too much water being added all at once


Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Marc Levenson]

I think that would be more likely with Kalkwasser than with RO/DI. And your
point is valid, in that it is better to have a container of specific volume near
the tank, rather than hooking up the RO/DI unit to the tank which may NEVER turn
off until you notice (too late).

However, there is no reason not to clean the float valve occasionally, soaking it
in hot water and white vinegar overnight.

Marc


Rod wrote:

> What happens when the float valve becomes encrusted with Calcium build up and
> the float sticks.. How much freshwater keep trickling into the sump?
>
> >
> >When the water evaporates, the float valve drops. Water trickles in until
> >the
> >float valve lifts up and seals the line. This is a very simple system that
> >works very well and prevents too much water being added all at once
>
> Rod Buehler
> www.asplashoflife.com

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[PaulB]

If you want the water to run directly from the RO unit to your tank, use a
kit made for that such as the one from Spectrapure. Don't use a float
switch like the one from Kent by itself because it can stick in the on
position, and it cycles the unit on and off too often.

http://www.spectrapure.com/St_alc_p1.htm

Of course, you can simply use a manual on/off valve to fill a container and
use a float switch to top off the tank. This will have all the advantages
of a limited reservoir but you will not have to carry water.

For this there are several switches that can turn power on and off.


http://www.reeffanatic.com/cgi-bin/mas/category.cgi?category=280000
http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/products/DOCH-AT1.shtml?E+scstore

Use a small pump such as this:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PA&Product_Code=M3-AQUALIFTERPUMP

If your RO unit is like mine you can just put a "T" connection in the hose
that feeds water to the faucet and run water tubing to your tank.


"Robin" > wrote in message
news:vJZ4c.24880$BA.2287@fed1read03...
> Been thinking about installing one so top off is much easier. Where would
> the waste water come out to? I have one under my sink for drinking water
> and have installed it with no problem but is there someone out there with
a
> website or even a simple diagram to show me how to "PLUMB" this into my
> existing setup? Here is my current set up.
>
> 80G Reef
> 150lbs of LR
> 6-7 in of DSB
> 20G Sump w overflow (using just a filter sock in the sump)
> EuroReef Skimmer in the sump (also have a Prizm hang on for redundancy)
> Return pump is a GEN X Pump inline with a 1/3 HP Custom Sealife Chiller
> 150W Heater
> 2 175W 12K MH and 2 96W 50/50 PCs
> A couple of PH in the tank for circulation
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Robin
>
>
>
>
>
>

[CapFusion]

You can add a drain pipe or overflow to spill over at certain water level.
This way, anything got stuck it will overflow to the pipe or the spill-over.
You then simply wasting your RO product water.

CapFusion,...



"Rod" > wrote in message
...
> What happens when the float valve becomes encrusted with Calcium build up
and
> the float sticks.. How much freshwater keep trickling into the sump?
>
> >
> >When the water evaporates, the float valve drops. Water trickles in
until
> >the
> >float valve lifts up and seals the line. This is a very simple system
that
> >works very well and prevents too much water being added all at once
>
>
> Rod Buehler
> www.asplashoflife.com

[Marc Levenson]

That is true, but I can't quite picture how that would work. The new RO/DI
water would be added to the tank, and even as excess goes down the drain, I
think salinity would still drop. I'm no chemist, but I believe sal****er is
more bouyant that fresh water, so the saline-laden water might exit more easily
leaving the fresh RO/DI in the system. Anyone care to add if that is true?

Cap, if you have a sketch explaining how to set this up where it won't affect
the system water, I'd like to see it.

Marc

CapFusion wrote:

> You can add a drain pipe or overflow to spill over at certain water level.
> This way, anything got stuck it will overflow to the pipe or the spill-over.
> You then simply wasting your RO product water.
>
> CapFusion,...
>
> "Rod" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What happens when the float valve becomes encrusted with Calcium build up
> and
> > the float sticks.. How much freshwater keep trickling into the sump?
> >
> > >
> > >When the water evaporates, the float valve drops. Water trickles in
> until
> > >the
> > >float valve lifts up and seals the line. This is a very simple system
> that
> > >works very well and prevents too much water being added all at once
> >
> >
> > Rod Buehler
> > www.asplashoflife.com

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Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[CapFusion]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> That is true, but I can't quite picture how that would work. The new
RO/DI
> water would be added to the tank, and even as excess goes down the drain,
I
> think salinity would still drop. I'm no chemist, but I believe sal****er
is
> more bouyant that fresh water, so the saline-laden water might exit more
easily
> leaving the fresh RO/DI in the system. Anyone care to add if that is
true?
>
> Cap, if you have a sketch explaining how to set this up where it won't
affect
> the system water, I'd like to see it.
>

You have to make a chamber for the RO and in the chamber will have a
drainpipe or drainage plus a float [I use ball-float [actually a
ping-pong-ball]]. The ball will be set up higher from any other valve like a
float valve. When float valve get stuck or not working, the RO water will
fill up to the ball valve that will open up the drainpipe. Think of t his
drainpipe like your toilet where you pull the lever to drain it content to
your toilet bowl. This way you do not feed the RO water if your float-valve
get stuck but to drain out out instead.

BTW, this sump I am talking about is my phototype sump that I did as a spare
part after I finish my sump from your idea Marc. This phototype sump is
about 5G or the size of a small fish tank. Sorry I do not have sketch to
show. I did not make a finish sump with drainpipe, though. I did not have
enough part to make another sump or add that drainpipe to the existing sump.
But from the phototype sump, it prevent RO water from keep on adding more
water when the valve stuck.

I am not chemist either. If that float-valve some how get stuck, the RO
water will keep on coming in to the sump and eventually go into the main
tank. The whole water volume will increase and somewhere will get spill
over. I would assume the sump will get overflow with excess water plus the
main tank probably get dilut with more fresh water. Eventually the main tank
will have fresh water tank instead of salt water. Goldfish probably can live
in that tank now until notice what happen.

It funny people want to add top-off water when the water get low but does
not think about if somehow get excess water when or if the valve get stuck
or not working.

Now, do you get what I talking about?

CapFusion,...

[Marc Levenson]

Yes, now I understand.

I'm going to be building the Weatherson Chamber pretty soon now, and look
forward to seeing how it works. There is a thread about it on RC in the DIY
forum, if you want to check it out. I have all my parts so I just have to get
busy building it.

Marc

CapFusion wrote:

> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...[i]
> > That is true, but I can't quite picture how that would work. The new
> RO/DI
> > water would be added to the tank, and even as excess goes down the drain,
> I
> > think salinity would still drop. I'm no chemist, but I believe sal****er
> is
> > more bouyant that fresh water, so the saline-laden water might exit more
> easily
> > leaving the fresh RO/DI in the system. Anyone care to add if that is
> true?
> >
> > Cap, if you have a sketch explaining how to set this up where it won't
> affect
> > the system water, I'd like to see it.
> >
>
> You have to make a chamber for the RO and in the chamber will have a
> drainpipe or drainage plus a float ]. The ball will be set up higher from any other valve like a
> float valve. When float valve get stuck or not working, the RO water will
> fill up to the ball valve that will open up the drainpipe. Think of t his
> drainpipe like your toilet where you pull the lever to drain it content to
> your toilet bowl. This way you do not feed the RO water if your float-valve
> get stuck but to drain out out instead.
>
> BTW, this sump I am talking about is my phototype sump that I did as a spare
> part after I finish my sump from your idea Marc. This phototype sump is
> about 5G or the size of a small fish tank. Sorry I do not have sketch to
> show. I did not make a finish sump with drainpipe, though. I did not have
> enough part to make another sump or add that drainpipe to the existing sump.
> But from the phototype sump, it prevent RO water from keep on adding more
> water when the valve stuck.
>
> I am not chemist either. If that float-valve some how get stuck, the RO
> water will keep on coming in to the sump and eventually go into the main
> tank. The whole water volume will increase and somewhere will get spill
> over. I would assume the sump will get overflow with excess water plus the
> main tank probably get dilut with more fresh water. Eventually the main tank
> will have fresh water tank instead of salt water. Goldfish probably can live
> in that tank now until notice what happen.
>
> It funny people want to add top-off water when the water get low but does
> not think about if somehow get excess water when or if the valve get stuck
> or not working.
>
> Now, do you get what I talking about?
>
> CapFusion,...

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[CapFusion]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, now I understand.
>
> I'm going to be building the Weatherson Chamber pretty soon now, and look
> forward to seeing how it works. There is a thread about it on RC in the
DIY
> forum, if you want to check it out. I have all my parts so I just have to
get
> busy building it.
>
> Marc
>
Can you provide me that link regarding about the "Weatherson Chamber"? I am
too lazy to find it myself at this moment.

Currently I have not seen anyone or vendor that make that extra safety
feature regarding about Top-Off if something either get stuck or somekind of
failure. The RO unit will keep on feeding fresh water if anything fail since
it running on pressure and not on electricity.

Maybe you should start this trend by adding this extra safety feature for
those who do top-off.

CapFusion,...

[Marc Levenson]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275455&highlight=top+off

Draw me a sketch of what you suggest and I'll see if it is worth doing. I
always recommend NOT to put the RO/DI output into the sump.

Marc


CapFusion wrote:

> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yes, now I understand.
> >
> > I'm going to be building the Weatherson Chamber pretty soon now, and look
> > forward to seeing how it works. There is a thread about it on RC in the
> DIY
> > forum, if you want to check it out. I have all my parts so I just have to
> get
> > busy building it.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> Can you provide me that link regarding about the "Weatherson Chamber"? I am
> too lazy to find it myself at this moment.
>
> Currently I have not seen anyone or vendor that make that extra safety
> feature regarding about Top-Off if something either get stuck or somekind of
> failure. The RO unit will keep on feeding fresh water if anything fail since
> it running on pressure and not on electricity.
>
> Maybe you should start this trend by adding this extra safety feature for
> those who do top-off.
>
> CapFusion,...

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[CapFusion]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
>
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275455&highlight=to
p+off
>
> Draw me a sketch of what you suggest and I'll see if it is worth doing. I
> always recommend NOT to put the RO/DI output into the sump.
>
I trying coming up with a sketch [if possible].
That is a great thread, Marc. Thanks.
From the link regarding about "Weatherson Chamber". From his idea and the
purpose for his design, still I do not see how hie resolve the impurities
creep. How long does it take for the evaporation to low the level to the
point where the float-valve activate to start the feed to the champer?
Wouldn't the impurities still creep during the time the RO is not running
until the next time it get recycle? I think he miss his original goal to
reduce or remove impurities. But I still like his ATO chamber idea very
much. What I see from this design is prevent unexpect failure due to power
or ATO valve failure.

CapFusion,....

[Marc Levenson]

It is my opinion that the creep occurs during the down time. And if the unit is
cycling on and off multiple times a day, each time you are adding the
impurities.

With his design, the tank may be topped off 3 or 4 times a day but the RO/DI
unit will only turn on every few days to refill the resevoir. If the first few
minutes of water contain TDS creep, all the subsequent water will be diluting
its strength to near non-testable levels.

Marc


CapFusion wrote:

> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...[i]
> >
> http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275455&highlight=to
> p+off
> >
> > Draw me a sketch of what you suggest and I'll see if it is worth doing. I
> > always recommend NOT to put the RO/DI output into the sump.
> >
> I trying coming up with a sketch .
> That is a great thread, Marc. Thanks.
> From the link regarding about "Weatherson Chamber". From his idea and the
> purpose for his design, still I do not see how hie resolve the impurities
> creep. How long does it take for the evaporation to low the level to the
> point where the float-valve activate to start the feed to the champer?
> Wouldn't the impurities still creep during the time the RO is not running
> until the next time it get recycle? I think he miss his original goal to
> reduce or remove impurities. But I still like his ATO chamber idea very
> much. What I see from this design is prevent unexpect failure due to power
> or ATO valve failure.
>
> CapFusion,....

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