mayday, mayday... cleaner shrimp problems...

[purple tang]

My cleaner shrimp appears to have suddenly taken a turn for the worse. He
has been in the tank for about a year and has been very healthy up until
last week. He has suddenly become very lethargic and within the last few
days has been sitting in the same spot, including during feedings.
Usually, he'll fly up to the top of the tank and eat out of my hand. Also, I
see a lot of tiny white dots on the shrimp's bottom and backside - it looks
like the dots are inside him. I don't have a digital camera yet to show a
picture :( He also looks to have lost one leg. There is a CBS also in the
tank and he appears very healthy (he has been in the tank as long as the
cleaner). I did notice the cleaner "walk into" the CBS last week a few
times when he started showing these signs. I have never seen the two have
problems before.

All water parameters have been ok, except specifci gravity and perhaps
phosphate - (zero ammonia & nitrite, nitrate at 10ppm - all measured
yesterday. Silicate 0, phosphate 0.125, carbonate hardness 12.2, Ca 480, pH
8 as of last week). Concerning the specific gravity... I bought a new
hydrometer over the weekend (my old one was very old and had just cracked).
When I used it yesterday for the 1st time - it showed my specific gravity
was actually about 1.028!!! (where my old hydrometer was showing about
1.025). I have since got it back under 1.026.

Am wondering if his problems can be explained by the specific gravity? Or
if its likely some other cause. I also recently did ick treatment
(metronidazole) but I have done that before and he's never shown any
problems.

Any help is appreciated!

Otto

[reefman MC]

Is the ich treatment invert safe? If not that was the problem. Coral
banded are unpredictable. I have one and he has never bothered a thing,
but if they get too large they will dominate the tank. As they get
larger their territory expands. How big is the CBS?


--
reefman MC
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[purple tang]

Thanks for the reply!

He is probably slightly bigger than the cleaner b/c of his big claws, etc -
but their bodies are about the same size. The ick treatment is suppossed to
be safe for inverts and corals to my knowledge.

I got a closer look at the little "dots" - they are all over his little
"flappers" on the bottom of him. His flappers are covered in the little
white dots.

I put him in a glass and have him cornered off in case others are nipping at
him now and will check him in the morning.



"reefman MC" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is the ich treatment invert safe? If not that was the problem. Coral
> banded are unpredictable. I have one and he has never bothered a thing,
> but if they get too large they will dominate the tank. As they get
> larger their territory expands. How big is the CBS?
>
>
> --
> reefman MC
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> reefman MC's Profile:
http://www.reef-chat.com/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=7
> View this thread:
http://www.reef-chat.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=8064
>

[Pszemol]

"purple tang" > wrote in message .com...
> I got a closer look at the little "dots" - they are all over his little
> "flappers" on the bottom of him. His flappers are covered in the little
> white dots.

Sorry for asking, but are you sure these are not his (her?) eggs on swimmerets?
Compare to these pictures: http://www.breeders-registry.gen.ca.us/Reprints/FAMA/v17_aug94/scarlet.htm
Shrimp usually goes lethargic the day before it molts and it does not eat that day...

Your shrimp case could be something else since it does his thing for about a week.
This is too long.

[purple tang]

Interesting website. Thanks.

The dots look to be in the same location as the eggs per that website but
they don't look green. They look white. Is it possible for the Cleaner
and the CBS to produce eggs together? There are no other shrimps in the
tank. The dots are still there today and he still is just hanging out at
the top of the tank. He seems about the same as yesterday.

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "purple tang" > wrote in message
.com...
> > I got a closer look at the little "dots" - they are all over his little
> > "flappers" on the bottom of him. His flappers are covered in the little
> > white dots.
>
> Sorry for asking, but are you sure these are not his (her?) eggs on
swimmerets?
> Compare to these pictures:
http://www.breeders-registry.gen.ca.us/Reprints/FAMA/v17_aug94/scarlet.htm
> Shrimp usually goes lethargic the day before it molts and it does not eat
that day...
>
> Your shrimp case could be something else since it does his thing for about
a week.
> This is too long.

[Pszemol]

"purple tang" > wrote in message .com...
> Interesting website. Thanks.

your welcome...

> The dots look to be in the same location as the eggs per that website

I had a guts feeling this is what you were talking about...
So there is no "dots" on shrimp anywhere else but on its swimmerets?

> but they don't look green. They look white.

They might be just not inseminated.

> Is it possible for the Cleaner and the CBS to produce eggs together?
> There are no other shrimps in the tank.

I would be very surprised but I am not a marine zoologist so I cannot
rule this out completely for you... Shrimps will have unfertile eggs
regularly, even if they do not have their mate in the tank...
They usually pick them out and eat them, somehow knowing they are
not inseminated and no larvae will grow out of them...

> The dots are still there today and he still is just hanging out at
> the top of the tank. He seems about the same as yesterday.

Keep your eye on him and relax. Use a magnifier glass and observe "dots".
Maybe you will get some cross-bred shrimps from them if you get lucky ;-)

[purple tang]

appreciate the insight.... I have noticed him picking at the dots - and
they do all appear to be in the swimmerets - nowhere else. I'm not prepared
to isolate him, etc. if they were inseminated (so they likely just be an
extra meal for the tank), but I'll be sure to post if any future CBS/cleaner
babies are spotted...

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "purple tang" > wrote in message
.com...
> > Interesting website. Thanks.
>
> your welcome...
>
> > The dots look to be in the same location as the eggs per that website
>
> I had a guts feeling this is what you were talking about...
> So there is no "dots" on shrimp anywhere else but on its swimmerets?
>
> > but they don't look green. They look white.
>
> They might be just not inseminated.
>
> > Is it possible for the Cleaner and the CBS to produce eggs together?
> > There are no other shrimps in the tank.
>
> I would be very surprised but I am not a marine zoologist so I cannot
> rule this out completely for you... Shrimps will have unfertile eggs
> regularly, even if they do not have their mate in the tank...
> They usually pick them out and eat them, somehow knowing they are
> not inseminated and no larvae will grow out of them...
>
> > The dots are still there today and he still is just hanging out at
> > the top of the tank. He seems about the same as yesterday.
>
> Keep your eye on him and relax. Use a magnifier glass and observe "dots".
> Maybe you will get some cross-bred shrimps from them if you get lucky ;-)

[Pszemol]

How is your shrimp doing today? Just curious how the things are developing...


"purple tang" > wrote in message .com...
> appreciate the insight.... I have noticed him picking at the dots - and
> they do all appear to be in the swimmerets - nowhere else. I'm not prepared
> to isolate him, etc. if they were inseminated (so they likely just be an
> extra meal for the tank), but I'll be sure to post if any future CBS/cleaner
> babies are spotted...
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "purple tang" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > > Interesting website. Thanks.
> >
> > your welcome...
> >
> > > The dots look to be in the same location as the eggs per that website
> >
> > I had a guts feeling this is what you were talking about...
> > So there is no "dots" on shrimp anywhere else but on its swimmerets?
> >
> > > but they don't look green. They look white.
> >
> > They might be just not inseminated.
> >
> > > Is it possible for the Cleaner and the CBS to produce eggs together?
> > > There are no other shrimps in the tank.
> >
> > I would be very surprised but I am not a marine zoologist so I cannot
> > rule this out completely for you... Shrimps will have unfertile eggs
> > regularly, even if they do not have their mate in the tank...
> > They usually pick them out and eat them, somehow knowing they are
> > not inseminated and no larvae will grow out of them...
> >
> > > The dots are still there today and he still is just hanging out at
> > > the top of the tank. He seems about the same as yesterday.
> >
> > Keep your eye on him and relax. Use a magnifier glass and observe "dots".
> > Maybe you will get some cross-bred shrimps from them if you get lucky ;-)
>
>

[purple tang]

He is still pretty much inactive. He is now in the back of the tank behind
some live rock in a hard to reach place, so haven't been able to get a close
look at him. I did notice on Thursday that he still had the dots on his
swimmerets. He did accept food Thursday, but only because he was at the top
of the tank and I placed it right on him. He still just wants to sit in one
place - but I do think his arms and antennas are moving a little bit more
than they were earlier in the week...

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> How is your shrimp doing today? Just curious how the things are
developing...
>
>
> "purple tang" > wrote in message
.com...
> > appreciate the insight.... I have noticed him picking at the dots - and
> > they do all appear to be in the swimmerets - nowhere else. I'm not
prepared
> > to isolate him, etc. if they were inseminated (so they likely just be an
> > extra meal for the tank), but I'll be sure to post if any future
CBS/cleaner
> > babies are spotted...
> >
> > "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "purple tang" > wrote in message
> > .com...
> > > > Interesting website. Thanks.
> > >
> > > your welcome...
> > >
> > > > The dots look to be in the same location as the eggs per that
website
> > >
> > > I had a guts feeling this is what you were talking about...
> > > So there is no "dots" on shrimp anywhere else but on its swimmerets?
> > >
> > > > but they don't look green. They look white.
> > >
> > > They might be just not inseminated.
> > >
> > > > Is it possible for the Cleaner and the CBS to produce eggs together?
> > > > There are no other shrimps in the tank.
> > >
> > > I would be very surprised but I am not a marine zoologist so I cannot
> > > rule this out completely for you... Shrimps will have unfertile eggs
> > > regularly, even if they do not have their mate in the tank...
> > > They usually pick them out and eat them, somehow knowing they are
> > > not inseminated and no larvae will grow out of them...
> > >
> > > > The dots are still there today and he still is just hanging out at
> > > > the top of the tank. He seems about the same as yesterday.
> > >
> > > Keep your eye on him and relax. Use a magnifier glass and observe
"dots".
> > > Maybe you will get some cross-bred shrimps from them if you get lucky
;-)
> >
> >