To Much Bio-load?

[Rick]

Is it possible to have to much bio-load? I currently have a 55 gal
setup using 2 ehiems (2015) 1 is complety full of media and the 2nd
half full of media and mesh filter.

I'm also using a Bac-Pack II skimmer which also uses some mesh in the
resivor?

The best part is my test results for ammonia 0% Nitrate 0% Nitrite
0%. I have had 0% nitrate for going on almost 3 weeks now. Thats a
good thing.

What I want to do now is put maybe 15-20 lbs live rock, would this be
over kill on the bio-load? I would think is all a good thing.

[Greg]

The bio media is designed to hold becteria for nitrogen cycling (well, not
complete but from ammonia->nitrite->nitrate). Bacteria housed in live rock
is designed to do the same thing. Some will claim the bio-media will end
acting as a nitrate factory. This kind of confuses me because that is what
they are designed to do (convert ammonia to nitrate) and when they are
releasing nitrate into the water they blame the bio-media (?) If you want to
look at completing the nitrogen cycle (nitrate->nitrogen/oxygen), you would
be looking at adding a deep sand bed (DSB). I have recently learned this
topic is up for debate as well. I don't believe the debate is about whether
or not the DSB will complete the nitrogen cycle, but more about things like
how deep it should be, whether it should be fine sand or coarse aragonite
and things of that nature.

Anyway, IMO I don't think you can have too much bio-media, just as you can't
have too much live rock (I myself use the berlin method of just LR and
protien skimming). The becteria will only churn out as much nitrates as it
has fuel (or ammonia or nitrites) to produce it from. If you have too little
bio-media and you add a bunch of fish or other ammonia producing critters
and your bio-media can't keep up, then that would be bad, exposing your tank
inhabitants to high levels of ammonia and most likley killing them.

Of course this is from all the research I had done back in the late 90's and
I haven't looked into any new practices since then. I have just been
applying what I have learned and it seems to work for me.

I am curious to see what the view points of today are.

Greg

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> Is it possible to have to much bio-load? I currently have a 55 gal
> setup using 2 ehiems (2015) 1 is complety full of media and the 2nd
> half full of media and mesh filter.
>
> I'm also using a Bac-Pack II skimmer which also uses some mesh in the
> resivor?
>
> The best part is my test results for ammonia 0% Nitrate 0% Nitrite
> 0%. I have had 0% nitrate for going on almost 3 weeks now. Thats a
> good thing.
>
> What I want to do now is put maybe 15-20 lbs live rock, would this be
> over kill on the bio-load? I would think is all a good thing.

[CapFusion]

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> Is it possible to have to much bio-load? I currently have a 55 gal
> setup using 2 ehiems (2015) 1 is complety full of media and the 2nd
> half full of media and mesh filter.
>
> I'm also using a Bac-Pack II skimmer which also uses some mesh in the
> resivor?
>
> The best part is my test results for ammonia 0% Nitrate 0% Nitrite
> 0%. I have had 0% nitrate for going on almost 3 weeks now. Thats a
> good thing.
>
> What I want to do now is put maybe 15-20 lbs live rock, would this be
> over kill on the bio-load? I would think is all a good thing.

No nitrate, humm... Very interesting. When you say "Bios-Load", do you mean
fish / inhibitant or as in filtering? If you refer to fish or addition
inhabitant to your existing community, then you will check if your filtering
can or able to remove waste or nutrient from your new addition. If it still
reading near 0%, then it is ok. Add slowly and monitor the water chemistry /
parameter.

Adding more LR to your already stable tank, you will need to check if the LR
does not have any die-off. Putting in a holding tank or a QT and measure
the chemistry for any bad reading.

CapFusion,...

[Rick]

> No nitrate, humm... Very interesting. When you say "Bios-Load", do you mean
> fish / inhibitant or as in filtering?

I was refering to filtering, my tank has gone thru the complete
nitrate cycle. I have 2 ehiems because I somtimes overload with to
many fish so by having an additional canister this will keep
everything better balanced.

I have not lost 1 fish. I first put in 3 damels and a few hermits
along with some nitromax start the cycle after 40-50 days the nitrites
had peeked and the nitrates was on the rise. Once the nitrates
peeked(50-100ppm) I checked daily after I saw that the nitrates begain
to drop I then did a 50% water change, after 3-4 days from the water
change my nitrates drop to 0ppm. Currently I have 1 huma huma-1
yellow tang-1puffer- 1 maroon clown 3damels and want to add a blue
tang- Just how many fish can a 55 gal hold with the bio-load I have?

[Richard Reynolds]

> I was refering to filtering, my tank has gone thru the complete
> nitrate cycle. I have 2 ehiems because I somtimes overload with to
> many fish so by having an additional canister this will keep
> everything better balanced.

its important to note that bio-load is the measure of waste produced by life in your tank

alone it has nothing to do with the filters, your filters dont have a bio-load instead
they handle a bio-load.


> Currently I have 1 huma huma-1
> yellow tang-1puffer- 1 maroon clown 3damels and want to add a blue
> tang- Just how many fish can a 55 gal hold with the bio-load I have?

assuming now that you know whats what, the question should be "how much bio-load will my
filters handle?", and the problem is you wont overload the filters, but you will overload
the tank, congradulations you have already done that.

neigher of the tangs alone *shouldnt* go in a 55( i wont argue it much but the yellow
*could* be ok in a 55, its been done before )
you dont say which puffer, but there is a good *almost certain* chance that itll grow to
at least 12" requiring a 100gal + tank
the maroon clowns and damsels are fine as long as you can keep teritorial issues down
(good luck)
and the huma huma gets to like 10" and requires about 100gals also

--
Richard Reynolds

[Rod]

>and the problem is you wont overload the filters, but you will overload
>the tank,

I couldnt agree more.. The way we set uptanks now days, (good skimmers good LR
and DSB) we will have stress problems due to the amount of fish, way before any
biol;ogical filtration problems
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Rick]

You Wrote:

> its important to note that bio-load is the measure of waste produced by life in your tank
>
> alone it has nothing to do with the filters, your filters dont have a bio-load instead
> they handle a bio-load.

Thats well knowin and understood, THKS


> assuming now that you know whats what, the question should be "how much bio-load will my filters handle?", and the problem is you wont overload the filters, but you will overload > the tank, congradulations you have already done that.

I dont think so,

I think I can even follow the add 1 more rule. LOL isnt it always
just add 1 more? No i'm not going to fall for that one.

F.Y.I with the current load on my tank, I have never had a rise with
nitrates and do reg monthly water changes even though the nitrares are
not even measurable doing a water changes is just like doing oil
changes on my cars. DO IT REGULAR

Actually I dont get nitrate or ammonia readings and I have tested on
several different test kits. Thats what I find so amazing is that
with all the fish I have why dont I get these readings? WHY? because
of the Dual Ehiems Plus the Bac-Pak II skimmer. This setup turned out
to be better then what a wet/dry system would do for this size tank.
Dont get me wrong a sump is the way to go but on larger tanks.

Each of these ehiems are rated for 60+ gal tanks so one is all I ever
needed. I bet if I took one off the ehiems for a month and tested the
water on the day my next water change is due, I would get a measurable
nitrate reading, but why ruin a good thing. The old rule "if it's
not broken dont fix it".



Yes I agree that these fish need a larger tank and I will go to a
larger tank before they out grow this one. My goal at the begining of
setting this one up was to

1.Educate my kids (6 & 11 Years old) Great hobbie for them

2.To get my wife hooked on the hobbie.

3.Try the hobbie again for myself and make sure I like it just as I
always have before. I did not want to jump into spending the big
bucks on what I really want right away.

Now that the family is hooked they can see its justifiable to set up
the mothership tank. (my plan worked)

At the beginning my wife did not understand why I would spend $1000's
on a big fish tank. I had to sell her first, Now she is hooked more
then me and has made several trips to lFS trying to keep pushing me to
buy the larger tank right away. As I'm not in a rush to get one but,
as time goes on all the current fish will be move into a larger 120
gal 48x24x24 FO tank and the 55 gal will be coverted into the reef
tank.


Rick

[CapFusion]

It seem like your tank are doing good the way you are, especially no nitrate
reading. If you are planning to get a bigger tank for those tang, puffer and
other, then you are in the right path.

Just making a note - Nitrate can be consume or absorb by algae, not just
anoxic bacteria. Maybe that the reason why you do not detect by your test
kit. From any filter [canister / W/D / HOT] will create nitrate as a finish
product from those bacteria living on those media. So there no way nitrate
will be low or non-detectable if nothing else other than DSB / Algae to
consume it. Doing schedule water change simple just diluting but should
still have nitrate present.

CapFusion,...


"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I think I can even follow the add 1 more rule. LOL isnt it always
> just add 1 more? No i'm not going to fall for that one.
>
> F.Y.I with the current load on my tank, I have never had a rise with
> nitrates and do reg monthly water changes even though the nitrares are
> not even measurable doing a water changes is just like doing oil
> changes on my cars. DO IT REGULAR
>
> Actually I dont get nitrate or ammonia readings and I have tested on
> several different test kits. Thats what I find so amazing is that
> with all the fish I have why dont I get these readings? WHY? because
> of the Dual Ehiems Plus the Bac-Pak II skimmer. This setup turned out
> to be better then what a wet/dry system would do for this size tank.
> Dont get me wrong a sump is the way to go but on larger tanks.
>
> Each of these ehiems are rated for 60+ gal tanks so one is all I ever
> needed. I bet if I took one off the ehiems for a month and tested the
> water on the day my next water change is due, I would get a measurable
> nitrate reading, but why ruin a good thing. The old rule "if it's
> not broken dont fix it".
>
>
>
> Yes I agree that these fish need a larger tank and I will go to a
> larger tank before they out grow this one. My goal at the begining of
> setting this one up was to
>
> 1.Educate my kids (6 & 11 Years old) Great hobbie for them
>
> 2.To get my wife hooked on the hobbie.
>
> 3.Try the hobbie again for myself and make sure I like it just as I
> always have before. I did not want to jump into spending the big
> bucks on what I really want right away.
>
> Now that the family is hooked they can see its justifiable to set up
> the mothership tank. (my plan worked)
>
> At the beginning my wife did not understand why I would spend $1000's
> on a big fish tank. I had to sell her first, Now she is hooked more
> then me and has made several trips to lFS trying to keep pushing me to
> buy the larger tank right away. As I'm not in a rush to get one but,
> as time goes on all the current fish will be move into a larger 120
> gal 48x24x24 FO tank and the 55 gal will be coverted into the reef
> tank.
>
>
> Rick

[ReefMan8471]

Don't forget that the amount of waste produced your fish and invertebrates is
not the only factor in determining how many fish one can have in the aquarium.
Other factors to consider are the eventual size of the fish, their behavior
(are they territorial?), and how active the fish are. I do know that damsels
(with the exception of chromis) are very territoral as are maroon clowns. They
may not be very large fish but take up alot of room because they are so
territorial (aggressive). The puffer and trigger will get pretty large and the
yellow tang is very active. I don't think a blue tang would be advisable until
you get a bigger tank ( at least 85 to 90 gallons).

reefman