What is a refugium?

[Boris]

I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the heck is
a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?

Thanks, in advance

[Richard Reynolds]

> I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the heck is
> a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?

a tank in the cabinet that grows things

generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by things that grow in the
display tank like fish and corals
or that are kinda ugly like algae

--
Richard Reynolds

[Microbot]

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:s%tbc.42965$_U.20616@lakeread05...
> > I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the heck is
> > a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?
>
> a tank in the cabinet that grows things
>
> generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by things
that grow in the
> display tank like fish and corals
> or that are kinda ugly like algae
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>

Also somewhere to stick your equipment to keep it out of view in the main
tank.
Protein Skimmer, Heater etc..

Cheers
Microbot

[Rod]

a Refugium is a place that provides refuge for the critters to reproduce. They
were origanlly designed to be above the tank and drain back to the main tank
via gravity so the critters dont have to go through the pumps and have their
exosckeletons for their boddies. Some people use in tank refugiums too. Many
people can not keep a refugium above the tank and then end up converting their
sump/wet-dry into a refugium.The term refugiun is used quite loosely these
days.. Many people are thinking that the macroalgae in the fuge is what makes a
fuge a fuge, but in reality th emacro algae is considered an algae scrubber..
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Rod]

>
>Also somewhere to stick your equipment to keep it out of view in the main
>tank.
>Protein Skimmer, Heater etc..
>

This would be a sump.. A refuge with a skimmer in it woould not be much of a
refuge..
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Microbot]

"Rod" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Also somewhere to stick your equipment to keep it out of view in the main
> >tank.
> >Protein Skimmer, Heater etc..
> >
>
> This would be a sump.. A refuge with a skimmer in it woould not be much of
a
> refuge..
> Rod Buehler
> www.asplashoflife.com

That would depend on how you designed it..
Skimmer doesn't have to be in the refuge area.

Cheers
Microbot

[Boris]

I'm still confused. (Simple brain).

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:s%tbc.42965$_U.20616@lakeread05...
> > I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the
heck is
> > a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?
>
> a tank in the cabinet that grows things

How can a tank in complete darkness, 24 hours a day grow anything?
Wouldn't the bacteria in the live rock die off plus anything else?

>
> generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by
things that grow in the
> display tank like fish and corals
> or that are kinda ugly like algae

Wouldn't the return pump turn anything into mush?

And are we taking 2 tanks under the cabinate or 1? A sump and/or a
refugium. Are we basically playing a 'defination' game? What's the
difference? A sump is a 30g or so place where you place all the heaters,
electronic probes, skimmers and anything else you got. My understanding
is that the sump is empty (except for water).

Thanks again. I'm glad you are all anonymous so I don't have to go face
to face with a store bot whom I probably know more than he does, but
just don't know it.

[Richard Reynolds]

> > This would be a sump.. A refuge with a skimmer in it woould not be much of
> > a refuge..
>
> That would depend on how you designed it..
> Skimmer doesn't have to be in the refuge area.


congrats thats the sump area which is NOT the same.

--
Richard Reynolds

[Richard Reynolds]

> > a tank in the cabinet that grows things
>
> How can a tank in complete darkness, 24 hours a day grow anything?
> Wouldn't the bacteria in the live rock die off plus anything else?

first live rock does not require lights, and depending on what you are trying to protect,
the refugium does not either.

however I did forget to add, generally a refugium will have lights above it. generally the
redest & bluest bulb you can get, as those are the ones the algae likes the best.

> > generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by
> things that grow in the
> > display tank like fish and corals
> > or that are kinda ugly like algae
>
> Wouldn't the return pump turn anything into mush?

some things yes some things no, depends on many things, pods are generally safe enough to
make it thru a pump w/o turning into mush, they only need to survive the trip once.


> And are we taking 2 tanks under the cabinate or 1? A sump and/or a
> refugium. Are we basically playing a 'defination' game? What's the
> difference? A sump is a 30g or so place where you place all the heaters,
> electronic probes, skimmers and anything else you got. My understanding
> is that the sump is empty (except for water).

its not a definition game, there is a clear difference, how you build it thats up to you,
it can be a seperate tank, or a compartment inside your sump, the sump is empty except for
equipment, the refugium is empty of most equipment.

> Thanks again. I'm glad you are all anonymous so I don't have to go face
> to face with a store bot whom I probably know more than he does, but
> just don't know it.

im not really anonymous even if you dont know me:D


--
Richard Reynolds

[Phil]

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in
news:GrDbc.43000$_U.30032@lakeread05:
>
> first live rock does not require lights, and depending on what you are
> trying to protect, the refugium does not either.
>

Actually, this is a question I've been meaning to ask for awhile. In my 46
FOWLR, I have normal lighting, but in my 7gal nanoreef, I have PC lighting.
The live rock in my nano is quite 'live' with critters and worms and bears,
oh my. But the live rock in my fowlr has no such civilizations living on
it.

So would it be correct to say that live rock doesnt need light to support
its nitrifying bacteria culture, but high intensity light IS required for
the live rock to host a broader and more bustling segment of the food
chain?

[Richard Reynolds]

> Actually, this is a question I've been meaning to ask for awhile. In my 46
> FOWLR, I have normal lighting, but in my 7gal nanoreef, I have PC lighting.
> The live rock in my nano is quite 'live' with critters and worms and bears,
> oh my. But the live rock in my fowlr has no such civilizations living on
> it.

not untypical

> So would it be correct to say that live rock doesnt need light to support
> its nitrifying bacteria culture, but high intensity light IS required for
> the live rock to host a broader and more bustling segment of the food
> chain?

nope

whatcha got in your fowlr for fish?


--
Richard Reynolds

[Phil]

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in
news:gPFbc.50703$_U.23525@lakeread05:

>> Actually, this is a question I've been meaning to ask for awhile. In
>> my 46 FOWLR, I have normal lighting, but in my 7gal nanoreef, I have
>> PC lighting. The live rock in my nano is quite 'live' with critters
>> and worms and bears, oh my. But the live rock in my fowlr has no
>> such civilizations living on it.
>
> not untypical
>
>> So would it be correct to say that live rock doesnt need light to
>> support its nitrifying bacteria culture, but high intensity light IS
>> required for the live rock to host a broader and more bustling
>> segment of the food chain?
>
> nope
>
> whatcha got in your fowlr for fish?
>

A juvenile Naso tang, a juvenile humu trigger, and 2 blue damsels. And
yes, the tang and trigger nibble routinely at the rock (all my fish are
omnivores now). But since i never saw crawlies on the rock, i assumed
they were snacking on algaes or something, rather than the active visible
life forms in my other tank.

So I guess they're seeing them before I do, huh?

[Richard Reynolds]

> A juvenile Naso tang, a juvenile humu trigger, and 2 blue damsels. And
> yes, the tang and trigger nibble routinely at the rock (all my fish are
> omnivores now). But since i never saw crawlies on the rock, i assumed
> they were snacking on algaes or something, rather than the active visible
> life forms in my other tank.
>
> So I guess they're seeing them before I do, huh?

uuh YEA!!!

--
Richard Reynolds

[Microbot]

Hooray on whatever you wish to call it, that's up to you (whatever floats
your boat), but i can tell you that the area i've located my skimmer is NOT
a sump.
may not technically be a refugium either but it sure is not a sump..

Cheers
Microbot

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:QjDbc.42998$_U.7406@lakeread05...
> > > This would be a sump.. A refuge with a skimmer in it woould not be
much of
> > > a refuge..
> >
> > That would depend on how you designed it..
> > Skimmer doesn't have to be in the refuge area.
>
>
> congrats thats the sump area which is NOT the same.
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Boris,

A refugium is a *predator-free* zone that you set up to specifically increase
your 'pod' population. This includes Copepods, Amphipods, and other micro
fauna. You'll also see worms of many kinds, including terbellid and
bristeworms. The whole idea is to have this spot filled with happy breeding
bugs that reproduce, sending a constant source of live food into the display
tank to feed the reef dwellers.

A mandarin is a good example, as this fish needs pods to survive and hunts for
them all day long. Having a refugium in the system assures new pods will be
present even though the mandarin continues to decimate the population. It can
never get to the source, and they can breed in safety.

I put macro algae in my refugium under a $10 light (5100K, 19w with 75w output,
spiral power compact floodlight from Home Depot) and the pods scurry around on
the algae in search of food.

I don't feed my refugium, because the display water is pumped into the fuge
anyway and some food always makes it into the 'fuge. The return pump moves
water, but the impellar is not a danger. It is pushing the water, not shredding
it.

Marc


Boris wrote:

> I'm still confused. (Simple brain).
>
> "Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
> news:s%tbc.42965$_U.20616@lakeread05...
> > > I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the
> heck is
> > > a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?
> >
> > a tank in the cabinet that grows things
>
> How can a tank in complete darkness, 24 hours a day grow anything?
> Wouldn't the bacteria in the live rock die off plus anything else?
>
> >
> > generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by
> things that grow in the
> > display tank like fish and corals
> > or that are kinda ugly like algae
>
> Wouldn't the return pump turn anything into mush?
>
> And are we taking 2 tanks under the cabinate or 1? A sump and/or a
> refugium. Are we basically playing a 'defination' game? What's the
> difference? A sump is a 30g or so place where you place all the heaters,
> electronic probes, skimmers and anything else you got. My understanding
> is that the sump is empty (except for water).
>
> Thanks again. I'm glad you are all anonymous so I don't have to go face
> to face with a store bot whom I probably know more than he does, but
> just don't know it.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Rod]

> The return pump moves
>water, but the impellar is not a danger. It is pushing the water, not
>shredding

I will be the first to admit that there are many critters that make it past the
impeller. I have seen baby banggai, and baby clowns make it through impellers
of GEN-x pumps ( with manifolds. There are many that do not. Its not that
they are being shreded, but many of them are being seperated from their
exoskeleton from the shear force of the pump. A refugium that sits below the
tank, or is part of the SUMP, is better than no refugium at all and will work
well, but a gravity drained refugium that sits higher than the main tank will
yield more critters back into the main system. Most people cannot have their
refugium above their tank.
Rod Buehler
www.asplashoflife.com

[Marc Levenson]

I can agree with that, Rod. It really comes down to space, design, and
aesthetics. Pump water from the display into the refugium is a preferred method,
because you aren't trying to get life out of the tank and into the 'fuge.

Those pods need to hold on tight to their little shell if they wanna keep it.... of
course, that only lasts until they are consumed by a predator anyway.

Marc

Rod wrote:

> I will be the first to admit that there are many critters that make it past the
> impeller. I have seen baby banggai, and baby clowns make it through impellers
> of GEN-x pumps ( with manifolds. There are many that do not. Its not that
> they are being shreded, but many of them are being seperated from their
> exoskeleton from the shear force of the pump. A refugium that sits below the
> tank, or is part of the SUMP, is better than no refugium at all and will work
> well, but a gravity drained refugium that sits higher than the main tank will
> yield more critters back into the main system. Most people cannot have their
> refugium above their tank.
> Rod Buehler
> www.asplashoflife.com

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Boris]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Boris,
>
> A refugium is a *predator-free* zone that you set up to specifically
increase
> your 'pod' population. This includes Copepods, Amphipods, and other
micro
> fauna. You'll also see worms of many kinds, including terbellid and
> bristeworms. The whole idea is to have this spot filled with happy
breeding
> bugs that reproduce, sending a constant source of live food into the
display
> tank to feed the reef dwellers.
>
> A mandarin is a good example, as this fish needs pods to survive and
hunts for
> them all day long. Having a refugium in the system assures new pods
will be
> present even though the mandarin continues to decimate the population.
It can
> never get to the source, and they can breed in safety.
>
> I put macro algae in my refugium under a $10 light (5100K, 19w with
75w output,
> spiral power compact floodlight from Home Depot) and the pods scurry
around on
> the algae in search of food.
>
> I don't feed my refugium, because the display water is pumped into the
fuge
> anyway and some food always makes it into the 'fuge. The return pump
moves
> water, but the impellar is not a danger. It is pushing the water, not
shredding
> it.
>
> Marc

Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)

Thanks


>
>
> Boris wrote:
>
> > I'm still confused. (Simple brain).
> >
> > "Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
> > news:s%tbc.42965$_U.20616@lakeread05...
> > > > I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the
> > heck is
> > > > a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?
> > >
> > > a tank in the cabinet that grows things
> >
> > How can a tank in complete darkness, 24 hours a day grow anything?
> > Wouldn't the bacteria in the live rock die off plus anything else?
> >
> > >
> > > generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by
> > things that grow in the
> > > display tank like fish and corals
> > > or that are kinda ugly like algae
> >
> > Wouldn't the return pump turn anything into mush?
> >
> > And are we taking 2 tanks under the cabinate or 1? A sump and/or a
> > refugium. Are we basically playing a 'defination' game? What's the
> > difference? A sump is a 30g or so place where you place all the
heaters,
> > electronic probes, skimmers and anything else you got. My
understanding
> > is that the sump is empty (except for water).
> >
> > Thanks again. I'm glad you are all anonymous so I don't have to go
face
> > to face with a store bot whom I probably know more than he does, but
> > just don't know it.
>
> --
> Personal Page:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[CapFusion]

"Boris" > wrote in message
news:PiFcc.15$xV1.8@fed1read06...
>
> Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
> refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
> be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)
>

Refugium normally or mainly for growing bug / critter / algae etc.
Sump normally use as another area for placing unsightly equipment.

Please take note "Normally".
Anyone can use refugium and use as a combo [refugium and sump] or
vice-versa.

If it really a BIG sump, it can be setup as both [combo]. One section for
refugium and other for holding PS / heater etc...

CapFusion,...

[Richard Reynolds]

> > A refugium is a *predator-free* zone that you set up to specifically

> Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
> refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
> be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)

any "predator-free zone" often times means reduced water flow, a heater would not be as
effective there, some probes are cool, dosing equipment is so/so, a ca reactor output to a
refugium full of macro's will help some macro's grow(usually not enough to be really
effective IME). many pods are sensitive to SG changes so if you want the best output
topoff has to be elsewhere, pumps are predators so are skimmers.

--
Richard Reynolds

[Paul Schnettler]

Marc,
A question about your mandarin. Do you have any anemones in the tank
with the mandarin? I got a beautiful mandarin a couple montha ago that
only lived 2 days. I originally thought my reef lobster was the assasin,
but now I'm wondering if it was my carpet anemone or possibly the
dreaded glass anomone (aiptasia) that I'm starting to make some headway
with. My fish guide hints that it might have been the anemones, but I'm
hesatant to try another mandarin. My LFS has a real huge male mandarin
in stock...and I can get him for a great price, just not ready to offer
him up as bait for a stinging critter.
thanks,
Paul S.

Marc Levenson wrote:
> Boris,
>
> A refugium is a *predator-free* zone that you set up to specifically increase
> your 'pod' population. This includes Copepods, Amphipods, and other micro
> fauna. You'll also see worms of many kinds, including terbellid and
> bristeworms. The whole idea is to have this spot filled with happy breeding
> bugs that reproduce, sending a constant source of live food into the display
> tank to feed the reef dwellers.
>
> A mandarin is a good example, as this fish needs pods to survive and hunts for
> them all day long. Having a refugium in the system assures new pods will be
> present even though the mandarin continues to decimate the population. It can
> never get to the source, and they can breed in safety.
>
> I put macro algae in my refugium under a $10 light (5100K, 19w with 75w output,
> spiral power compact floodlight from Home Depot) and the pods scurry around on
> the algae in search of food.
>
> I don't feed my refugium, because the display water is pumped into the fuge
> anyway and some food always makes it into the 'fuge. The return pump moves
> water, but the impellar is not a danger. It is pushing the water, not shredding
> it.
>
> Marc
>
>
> Boris wrote:
>
>
>>I'm still confused. (Simple brain).
>>
>>"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
>>news:s%tbc.42965$_U.20616@lakeread05...
>>
>>>>I know a sump is just an extra tank in the cabinet, but what the
>>
>>heck is
>>
>>>>a "refugium". I'm not new, but do explain in simple language?
>>>
>>>a tank in the cabinet that grows things
>>
>>How can a tank in complete darkness, 24 hours a day grow anything?
>>Wouldn't the bacteria in the live rock die off plus anything else?
>>
>>
>>>generally things like pods and worms and more that become eaten by
>>
>>things that grow in the
>>
>>>display tank like fish and corals
>>>or that are kinda ugly like algae
>>
>>Wouldn't the return pump turn anything into mush?
>>
>>And are we taking 2 tanks under the cabinate or 1? A sump and/or a
>>refugium. Are we basically playing a 'defination' game? What's the
>>difference? A sump is a 30g or so place where you place all the heaters,
>>electronic probes, skimmers and anything else you got. My understanding
>>is that the sump is empty (except for water).
>>
>>Thanks again. I'm glad you are all anonymous so I don't have to go face
>>to face with a store bot whom I probably know more than he does, but
>>just don't know it.
>
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Don Geddis]

Paul Schnettler > wrote on Wed, 07 Apr 2004:
> A question about [Marc's] mandarin. Do you have any anemones in the tank
> with the mandarin?

I've got a mandarin dragonet, and three rose (= bubble-tip) anemones,
in a 55 gallon tank. Been fine for about nine months. The mandarin seems
to swim whereever it wants, including touching corals and even under the
anemones, and everyone else in the tank ignores it. Even my maroon clown,
who is very aggressive towards all the other fish.

> I got a beautiful mandarin a couple montha ago that only
> lived 2 days. I originally thought my reef lobster was the assasin, but now
> I'm wondering if it was my carpet anemone or possibly the dreaded glass
> anomone (aiptasia) that I'm starting to make some headway with.

I find it unlikely that a mandarin would get caught by an aiptasia. Isn't
the fish usually much bigger than any of the glass anemones?

A carpet anemone is a different story. I think they're well known for catching
and eating slow fish. Couldn't tell you if that was the mandarin's problem,
but I wouldn't be that surprised. Of course, a lobster is a predator also.

Finally: the mandarins generally need live food. If you don't have a robust
live rock pod population, they often starve to death. Two days is fast, but
maybe it was already hungry from the fish store, and you didn't have any food
in your own tank?

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
The difference between a kid and an adult is, when you're a kid, you throw
water balloons at cars. But when you're an adult, you throw water balloons
FROM a car.
-- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey [1999]

[Marc Levenson]

If you will look at many of the sumps on my site, you'll notice the refugium is
isolated to protect the critters.

The sump holds the equipment nicely, and is a good place to add any additives
without affecting livestock at all. It is also the section you can drain for
water changes, again not affecting the display nor the pods and such.

I wouldn't want my skimmer in my refugium, for example. It would remove a lot
of newly born (hatched?) pods, and reduce the potential population I'm trying to
feed to my tank.

Marc


Boris wrote:

> "Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
> refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
> be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)
>
> Thanks
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

Carpet anemones are notorious for consuming fish of all kinds, and it doesn't care if
it cost you .05 or $1000! It all tastes like fish!!!! I bet your Mandarin was caught
and couldn't escape, as carpets are *extremely* sticky.

Here's a good article about these fish, in case you've not seen it yet:
http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_care.html

Sorry about your loss, but I'd blame the carpet if it was my tank.

Marc
PS: My beautiful Lemon Meringue Wrasse is dying as we speak. I fear by morning it
will be gone.
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0404/lm_wrasse_040704.jpg


Paul Schnettler wrote:

> Marc,
> A question about your mandarin. Do you have any anemones in the tank
> with the mandarin? I got a beautiful mandarin a couple montha ago that
> only lived 2 days. I originally thought my reef lobster was the assasin,
> but now I'm wondering if it was my carpet anemone or possibly the
> dreaded glass anomone (aiptasia) that I'm starting to make some headway
> with. My fish guide hints that it might have been the anemones, but I'm
> hesatant to try another mandarin. My LFS has a real huge male mandarin
> in stock...and I can get him for a great price, just not ready to offer
> him up as bait for a stinging critter.
> thanks,
> Paul S.
>
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Paul Schnettler]

Marc Levenson wrote:

> Carpet anemones are notorious for consuming fish of all kinds, and it doesn't care if
> it cost you .05 or $1000! It all tastes like fish!!!! I bet your Mandarin was caught
> and couldn't escape, as carpets are *extremely* sticky.

Funny thing was the Mandarin wasn't damaged at all when I found him in
the area he staked out as his "zone" he must have not been dead long.
The two percula's that call the carpet anemone home usually do a good
job of badgering any intruders away.
>
> Here's a good article about these fish, in case you've not seen it yet:
> http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_care.html
>
Hmmm, after reading that article, I'm also inclined to think the mandy
might have been slowly starving, the LFS had him in a community tank
with no substantial live rock or a DSB, my tank (75g) has a 100lbs of LR
and an established aragonite and crushed coral bed. I do have a good
sized 6 line wrasse (3 1/2 in) that might also have attributed to the
Mandy's demise as food competition contributor.

> Sorry about your loss, but I'd blame the carpet if it was my tank.
>
> Marc
> PS: My beautiful Lemon Meringue Wrasse is dying as we speak. I fear by morning it
> will be gone.
> http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0404/lm_wrasse_040704.jpg
Thanks for the observations, really glad I found this site...
Paul S.
>
>
> Paul Schnettler wrote:
>
>
>>Marc,
>>A question about your mandarin. Do you have any anemones in the tank
>>with the mandarin? I got a beautiful mandarin a couple montha ago that
>>only lived 2 days. I originally thought my reef lobster was the assasin,
>>but now I'm wondering if it was my carpet anemone or possibly the
>>dreaded glass anomone (aiptasia) that I'm starting to make some headway
>>with. My fish guide hints that it might have been the anemones, but I'm
>>hesatant to try another mandarin. My LFS has a real huge male mandarin
>>in stock...and I can get him for a great price, just not ready to offer
>>him up as bait for a stinging critter.
>>thanks,
>>Paul S.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[George Burnt]

I will explain my setup where I have both a sump and a refugium.
In my basement, there was a very wide, closet, that we did not need. on the
other side of the closet was the laundry room. What I did was knock out the
back wall of the closet, and put my aquarium in there. I built up the wall
where the closet was, so that the aquarium looked built into the wall. Then
I reinforced the shelf in the closet and put a 35 gal refugium up there.
This has an overflow which goes to the display tank (180 gal.) then I have
an overflow in the main tank which goes to a 35 gal sump., which is where I
keep skimmer, heater etc. When it's time for a water change, what I do is
let the sump fill 3/4 or so by turning off the return pump. Then I just
drain it on to the laundry room floor, which has a drain, I then fill up the
sump to the same level and mix my salt in it. I use the return pump that is
diconnected from the hose to "mix" the water for a few hours then I am back
in business.

From the "display room" I am unable to access the tank in any way. While it
looks good, it is a real pain to clean the front glass, which I must do from
the back of the tank.

This is what's in my tank so far... water.
Actually I have just set all this up and am testing the integrity of it all
before I add anything that's alive.
George Burnt

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:BnLcc.252$kN6.149@lakeread05...
> > > A refugium is a *predator-free* zone that you set up to specifically
>
> > Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
> > refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
> > be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)
>
> any "predator-free zone" often times means reduced water flow, a heater
would not be as
> effective there, some probes are cool, dosing equipment is so/so, a ca
reactor output to a
> refugium full of macro's will help some macro's grow(usually not enough to
be really
> effective IME). many pods are sensitive to SG changes so if you want the
best output
> topoff has to be elsewhere, pumps are predators so are skimmers.
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>

[Rod]

You have don things right! :), (except for not allowing for front access ;)..
an ideal set up IMHO!

>I will explain my setup where I have both a sump and a refugium.
>In my basement, there was a very wide, closet, that we did not need. on the
>other side of the closet was the laundry room. What I did was knock out the
>back wall of the closet, and put my aquarium in there. I built up the wall
>where the closet was, so that the aquarium looked built into the wall. Then
>I reinforced the shelf in the closet and put a 35 gal refugium up there.
>This has an overflow which goes to the display tank (180 gal.) then I have
>an overflow in the main tank which goes to a 35 gal sump., which is where I
>keep skimmer, heater etc. When it's time for a water change, what I do is
>let the sump fill 3/4 or so by turning off the return pump. Then I just
>drain it on to the laundry room floor, which has a drain, I then fill up the
>sump to the same level and mix my salt in it. I use the return pump that is
>diconnected from the hose to "mix" the water for a few hours then I am back
>in business.
>
>From the "display room" I am unable to access the tank in any way. While it
>looks good, it is a real pain to clean the front glass, which I must do from
>the back of the tank.
>
>This is what's in my tank so far... water.
>Actually I have just set all this up and am testing the integrity of it all
>before I add anything that's alive.
>George Burnt
>
>"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
>news:BnLcc.252$kN6.149@lakeread05...
>> > > A refugium is a *predator-free* zone that you set up to specifically
>>
>> > Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
>> > refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
>> > be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)
>>
>> any "predator-free zone" often times means reduced water flow, a heater
>would not be as
>> effective there, some probes are cool, dosing equipment is so/so, a ca
>reactor output to a
>> refugium full of macro's will help some macro's grow(usually not enough to
>be really
>> effective IME). many pods are sensitive to SG changes so if you want the
>best output
>> topoff has to be elsewhere, pumps are predators so are skimmers.
>>
>> --
>> Richard Reynolds
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Ross Bagley]

"Boris" > writes:

> Thanks. I'm with you so far :). But then why do guys have a sump _and_ a
> refugium? All the heaters, electronic probes. dozing equiptment etc can
> be placed in the refugium(?), thus making a sump useless(?)

The sump is for filtration, heating, cooling, evaporation top-off,
calcium dosing, etc. The flow rate to the sump is on the order of
10x-20x of the main tank volume per hour to ensure adequate filtration
of main tank water. The water for the sump is skimmed from the
surface of the main tank by overflow boxes to make sure that a layer
of scum doesn't build up on the surface of the main tank.

The refugium is for growing populations of plankton, pods, masses of
macroalgae, and occasionally acclimating new arrivals in a food-rich
environment. The flow rate to the refugium is 1.5x-2x of the refugium
volume per hour to minimize current speeds and leave as many of the
critters as possible in the refugium to breed. Also, you'll have
less critter mortality if the flow from the refugium is gravity and
not a pump.

It is possible to build one "sump with refugium" that handles most
of these requirements, but it usually involves serious compromises
of the refugium design, most significantly in the flow rate of the
water going through the refugium. I strongly prefer a dedicated
tank above the show tank for my refugium and another dedicated tank
below the show tank for my sump.

Regards,
Ross

-- Ross Bagley http://rossbagley.com/rba
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature...
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." -- Helen Keller

[Rod]

>I strongly prefer a dedicated
>tank above the show tank for my refugium and another dedicated tank
>below the show tank for my sump.
>

Me too!!! I couldnt agree more

[JT]

i just bought a hang on tank refugium by cpr from my lfs, put some LR in
it and already a bunch of pods have a new hang out, got to get a light
so i can grow calerpa.

[Sprattoo]

<snip> i just bought a hang on tank refugium by cpr from my lfs, put some LR
in

I have a sump/'fuge which is a 20G divided in two by plexi. The water from
the main T's one side to the sump the other to a capped PVC with about 15+
holes drilled in.
seems to work pretty good but I just hadn't considered one above the tank to
take advantage of that strong light thats already there.

It doesn't really matter too much though... with all the turbulence, return
pump, top off that happens in my sump, I have my return pump sitting on a
piece of foam for quiet... I discovered last night that the Mysis and 'pods
have been breeding and hatching like mad in the piece of foam!! Once started
those little suckers will live anywhere and everywhere!